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[Denti]

I've tried to get help on this in MC19 with no luck. My request is quite simple, but I can't seem to make it work:

In Theater View/Gizmo:

1. Sort artists by last name first name
2. Display artists first name last name

No problem! I have a "All Artists (Last Name)" field that I use to sort and I use "Artist" to display. But here's the monkey wrench:

3. Be able to do 1. and 2. with the ;-delimiter that allows for more than one artist per release.

This throws everything off. I get "[Varies]" when I select [Artist] for display when there are more than one artist separated by ;. This is not the case when I simply display what is being sorted: Last Name First Name. But I want to display the other way around.

Seems like something MC should be able to do, but I'm stumped.

[Denti]

Am I really the only user of MC who wants to sort by last name but display by first name, and also happens to have lots of collaborative albums? I would really be surprised if I were alone.

[dtc]

Take a look here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92346.0

[Denti]

Nice, but this doesn't address the problem of using multiple artists for a single release. Once a ; is thrown into the equation MC can't handle it.

[dtc]

The link discusses a manual override for difficult cases. Just do that and you should be fine.

[Denti]

Can you explain how this would work with collaborative albums? If "Bob Dylan; The Band" is my Artist and I manually override it to say "Bob Dylan" (instead of the sort of Dylan, Bob), then that means for the The Band grouping it will also display "Bob Dylan." But I want it to display The Band.  The delimiter doesn't work in these cases, which is why I'm frustrated. I would happily be shown that I'm overlooking something.

[dtc]

The idea is to have a user defined field to sort on. You can do the same for display. Those fields are calculated automatically unless you override them. It is a manual process, but there is no logic that will handle all cases. What do you do with Iron Butterfly;Bob Dylan. No logic will be able to tell that Iron Butterfly is a group rather than a person. Special cases have to handle manually.

[Denti]

I understand, but if I manually set my user defined field to display "Bob Dylan" for my "Bob Dylan; Iron Butterfly" album, then my grouping of Iron Butterfly albums will display "[Varies]" because it will include albums with the display name set to "Iron Butterfly" and those with the display name set to "Bob Dylan." And if I set it to "Iron Butterfly," then I have the same problem with the Dylan grouping. And if I set my user defined field to "Bob Dylan; Iron Butterfly" then MC doesn't know what to do. Do you see the problem? I have yet to find a solution.

EDIT: I can see from the linked thread that you have your MC set up to sort by last name,but display first name last name. Can you add a ; delimiter and still get things looking right? I've just spent another hour trying, without success. If I choose a user defined field to display "Bob Dylan; The Band" it displays "Bob Dylan; The Band" under each grouping "Bob Dylan" and "The Band." The ; delimiter does not work here.

[dtc]

I use Category Views with thumbnails for display. I use just one artist to sort by, using [Artist Sort]. I use [Artist] (or [Artist Display]) in thumbnail text. Then I use the full [Artist] tag for display in the display header or in File Display or Playing Now. That requires determining who you want to be the "primary" artist, so to speak, for sorting. Not optimal, but works for me for the few albums I have like that.

If you want to see a single album under both artists (The Band and Bob Dylan) I suppose you could have duplicate entries, one for each artist. Maybe someone who uses ; lists regularly has a better approach. I just do not use that form. I think what you want is a way to have the ; list automatically pulled apart and the album/tracks listed under each artist.

If you can associate each track with a single artist, you can split the albums into multiple albums, which is what I do for classical albums which have multiple composers on the same album. But I do not think that is your issue. 

[Denti]

If you want to see a single album under both artists (The Band and Bob Dylan) I suppose you could have duplicate entries, one for each artist. Maybe someone who uses ; lists regularly has a better approach. I just do not use that form. I think what you want is a way to have the ; list automatically pulled apart and the album/tracks listed under each artist.

If you can associate each track with a single artist, you can split the albums into multiple albums, which is what I do for classical albums which have multiple composers on the same album. But I do not think that is your issue. 

Thanks for trying to help. I didn't have the issue until I started using the ; list option. But I really like using this, and want to continue doing so. I don't really feel like duplicating the data. That seems like an awful lot of work--and a waste of HD space. I'm just surprised I'm the only one who uses the ;-delimiter and wants to have artists sorted by last name but displayed by first.

[Denti]

Alright, I'm appealing for help on this again. At this point I'm considering duplicating the files, which would be a real waste of space.

[Arindelle]

just don't have the time to respond now, but let me confirm that you are talking about multiple artists on all of the tracks. Eg Dylan and the Band for each, not just on one or two of them?

If so, this is doable and is one of the best things about JRiver.

Briefly its not in the display only or changing an existing field's properties. You have to make a special custom field that is a list field using "calculated data that will auto populate. Using that custom field in your veiws or displays gives you enormous lattitude, no need to duplicate records, and no need to re-tag manually.

If you need a step by step I'll find a link or post a mini how-to if you need some help.

[Denti]

just don't have the time to respond now, but let me confirm that you are talking about multiple artists on all of the tracks. Eg Dylan and the Band for each, not just on one or two of them?

Correct.

If so, this is doable and is one of the best things about JRiver.

Briefly its not in the display only or changing an existing field's properties. You have to make a special custom field that is a list field using "calculated data that will auto populate. Using that custom field in your veiws or displays gives you enormous lattitude, no need to duplicate records, and no need to re-tag manually.

If you need a step by step I'll find a link or post a mini how-to if you need some help.

I have tried to do this, but have failed. I would be so grateful for detailed help!

[Denti]

Briefly its not in the display only or changing an existing field's properties. You have to make a special custom field that is a list field using "calculated data that will auto populate. Using that custom field in your veiws or displays gives you enormous lattitude, no need to duplicate records, and no need to re-tag manually.

I've tried this again, and it simply doesn't work. The list delimiter does not display properly. In Standard View I get [Varies] under such artists. In Theater View it sometimes looks right, but sometimes simply displays the semi-colon list of artists. What am I doing wrong, or is the program simply unable to do this?

[Arindelle]

here's an example of how to do this using Genres of course same thing goes for [Artist] or [Artist Sort] which looks like what you'd want to use

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=93835.msg647207#msg647207

also refer to the link posted higher up in the thread. It gives an explanation on how to populate the artist sort field.

Bear in mind when grouping by album you would want the album artist field to be the same for all tracks ... if each track is different se Various Artists for example; for the same "multiple" artists on each track you can use the the semi-colon or you could just indicate "Bod Dylan & The Band" - the album artist field will group the album together by default, but what you see on the screen and in your views will show the artists delimited.

sorry for the late response to this and hope this helps.

[Denti]

Thanks, but unfortunately this does not help me. I'm still getting [Varies] and artist names with semi-colons being displayed, not the delimited artist names. The only way I can get the proper output of artists is by choosing to display [Name] (in Standard View; in Theater View I leave the sort by blank), but that gives me what I've sorted by, which is Last Name, First Name. I want it to display First Name Last Name.

I'm starting to get frustrated. I find it really hard to believe I'm the only one who wants to sort by Last Name, First Name and display by First Name Last Name while also using the ; delimiter.

Note that I'm grouping by Artist (well, my own last name sort field) and some of the albums in that grouping might just have that single artist, while others might have that same artist plus others, separated by ;.

Dylan, Bob --> includes Dylan, Bob and Dylan, Bob; The Band
               --> I want it to display "Bob Dylan" (and the albums with "The Band" to also appear under the grouping "The Band")

[Arindelle]

You want, IF I understand, to

1) Swap first name last name to a custom field (leave the artist name and album artist name alone or you will not have what you want short of using regex -- I'm not going there).

2) Sort on [artist sort]; show [Artist] (through thumbnail text)

Just want to check something as I can provoke [Varies] depending on how the [album artist] field is entered. Could you import this view into Theater View plz and tell me if it works in that mode ... there might be a limitation linked with album artist and album grouping in standard view. This seems to work fine in Theater View for me however, and don't have time to test right now.

Have to run. I'll try to check back later or if not tomorrow.

[Denti]

You want, IF I understand, to

1) Swap first name last name to a custom field (leave the artist name and album artist name alone or you will not have what you want short of using regex -- I'm not going there).

2) Sort on [artist sort]; show [Artist] (through thumbnail text)

Just want to check something as I can provoke [Varies] depending on how the [album artist] field is entered. Could you import this view into Theater View plz and tell me if it works in that mode ... there might be a limitation linked with album artist and album grouping in standard view. This seems to work fine in Theater View for me however, and don't have time to test right now.

1. Yes, that's right. And I don't care about auto populating this field. I do it manually, and am happy to continue doing so.

2. Right. So my sort is with the new field [All Artists (Last Name)]; and I attempt to display [Artist] in thumbnail.

Now I've tried creating a new field as you suggested. I call this [Artist (test)] and it's a list-style with the data calculated

Code: [Select]

[Artist]&datatype=[list]

I don't touch "Album Artist" because I like to have multiple artist albums grouped together by default.

In Standard View I get [Varies] for any grouping of an artist where a ;-delimiter is used for one or more albums along with one or more albums of just that artist.

In Theater View it's different. With some artists I get the right results, but usually I get a display that *includes* the semi-colon, e.g.: "Bob Dylan; The Band"

That's the display, mind you, so the ; isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing. And that's what's driving me nuts.

[Denti]

So, have I done something wrong, or will I have to duplicate all my files where I'm using ; for Artist? I would be surprised if there wasn't a solution to this, and yet... I'm at a loss.

[Arindelle]

Hi

Let's simplify -- and leave alone the swapping part of the post; otherwise its hard to see what's going wrong -- (you'd normally have a temporary field for the swap, but you said that you were inputting that manually, probably where you are confused?). Disregard what I mentioned about the thumbnail text right now.

I am guessing but I think you are not using the custom caluclated "list field" for the display.

so reset the view or try a new one .. (or even use the stock Artists (small with files) template for that matter)

as an example using my fields so that you can follow the screen shots

1 - [Artist] =Bob Dylan; The Band which is a normal default field

2 - [Artists]  which is a calculated list field using this expression

Code: [Select]

[artist]&datatype=[list]
3 - create a category view using the LIST field (in this case "Artists" not "Artist" then [Album]



- check that in the view sort from the drop down menu (top left of the frame) is set to sort by [Name]



- check that the thumbnail text is also set to [Name] from the same drop down menu



There are should be no "Varies" showing up (I can post screen shots, but believe me )

Now you must substitute your field names of course. But a list field should be the field inputted into the view itself.

You might have the following
[Artist] = Bob Dylan; The Band
[Artist Sort] which is a normal, default field type = Dylan, Bob; The Band
[Artist Display] which is a calculated list field

as lonf as you use the latter of the three in the view, it should show correctly

Try and get it to work this way first; then if needed you can check out expression fields or fool around with thumbnail displays later

[Denti]

Now you must substitute your field names of course. But a list field should be the field inputted into the view itself.

You might have the following
[Artist] = Bob Dylan; The Band
[Artist Sort] which is a normal, default field type = Dylan, Bob; The Band
[Artist Display] which is a calculated list field

as lonf as you use the latter of the three in the view, it should show correctly

Try and get it to work this way first; then if needed you can check out expression fields or fool around with thumbnail displays later

Thank you for helping!!!

Yes, when I set it up as you describe it looks right. No [Varies].

BUT: it's sorted by First Name Last Name.

How do I add my Last Name sort field to the Sort possibilities? OK, I think I've done that, but it definitely does not work (artists all out of order).

If I use my Last Name list field in the view to begin with and choose to display [Artist] or my list-field version of First Name Last Name I get a combination of semi-colons and [Varies]. So I'm still without a solution.

[Denti]

So if I choose "sort by" and use my user-created list field with artists names LAST NAME FIRST NAME I get this:



 I can't explain what order this is, but it's certainly not the order of the indicated field A-Z.

If I choose to view by my preset field of LAST NAME FIRST NAME and then display (thumbnail) a list type field of artist names FIRST NAME LAST NAME then I get a mess of [Varies] and names with semi-colons.

What am I doing wrong?

It looks to me like the thumbnail display is unable to process the list data. And none of this really helps with Theater View, which is where I want all this to work. Or does it help?

[Denti]

Arindelle has been very generously helping me via personal message to try and resolve this, but not luck yet. I thought I'd appeal to the community again. I am happy to even do things manually, so long as I don't have to duplicate files. Right now, it's looking like that is the only option.

To repeat, all I want is:

1. Sort by Last Name First Name
2. Display First Name Last Name
3. Be able to use the ";" delimiter

UPDATE!!!

I have successfully been able to do it in Standard View using the new Unswap(...) function. I simply sort by my new Last Name First Name field, and choose as the thumbnail text Unswap([Name]).

Bingo! In Theater View this does not work, though     Any guidance on how I might make it work??

[6233638]

I feel like we're going around in circles here.
Yes, it's possible in Standard View - because in Standard View you can modify [Name]
 
In Theater View, [Name] does not return the category name, instead it returns the a filename from within that category.
And you have to operate on the category name, or else it returns [Varies]
 
I don't think this can be fixed until something is changed.
Details on the problem from last time: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=93242

[Denti]

Thanks, for some reason I never saw that thread... I don't know how it slipped by me. But thank you for trying again!!

Yes, I guess at this point we are going in circles. So... I might as well start duplicating the files.

Perhaps the developers would consider "fixing" how [Name] behaves in Theater View?