Topic: Gapless DLNA not working (Read 12039 times)

MinaRotter · « **on:** January 15, 2015, 12:07:19 pm »

Can't seem to get gapless to work via DLNA.

Setup:

Audio files on Mac Pro serving Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 via wired LAN.
I have also tried the JRiver ios app on ipad as a controller in the pathway as well as using the MacPro as a direct server and have not been able to acheive gapless play back. This is regardless of file type (alac, flac, aiff).
Using latest OSX version of Media Center (Media Center20 Mac-281752) and Yosemite on Mac Pro.

Interestingly, using the Cambridge audio as controller for the mediacenter server will produce gapless playback, so it appears that the issue is not with DLNA but with how it is implemented by Media Center.

Also the FF and time lapse do not work. ie time remaining/played during track playback keeps resetting to 0 every 5 seconds or so in Media Center (on both desktop and ios apps). Although track itself plays flawlessly.

This is a particular issue for albums such as Pink Floyd's "Dark side of the Moon", that as a concept album effectively has no gaps and a pause between tracks is significantly noticeable.

Have found a few references to this on the forum but no obvious solutions. Any help would be appreciated.

AndrewFG · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2015, 04:13:03 pm »

Did you right click on the renderer and Enable SetNext support?

MinaRotter · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2015, 06:43:40 pm »

Yes, I think so. $:-\$ . If that is the same as unchecking the "disable setnext support" in the "DLNA" controller options when right clicking on the renderer, then yes. Have tried this both on and off and also the "Ignore Transport events" toggle both on and off.

I have also tried most of the DLNA server options (such as generic DLNA server and Audiophile 24 bit DAC and UPNP (although haven't given the latter one a go with the aforementioned DLNA controller options toggled - might give this a go). Play back is fine no matter which option I select, it's just that I can't seem to enable gapless.

MinaRotter · « **Reply #3 on:** January 15, 2015, 07:03:26 pm »

Don't know if this helps but if I initiate playback directly from the CA Stream Magic 6's controls, it will play gaplessly perfectly well. If i initiate from JRiver, either the ios app or the desktop app, it won't play gaplessly and I get a message on the CA Stream Magic's LED display saying "end of queue" before starting the next track ( with an obvous pause before doing so). I suspect that this is something to do with the software settings that have been mentioned already ie the "SetNext support" but at the moment I can't figure it out.

AndrewFG · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2015, 12:33:07 am »

Enable SetNext support = Uncheck disable SetNext support is the right setting to play with. If your renderer supports gapless then that setting should work. And if it does not support gapless then that setting will cause MC to report errors.

bob · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2015, 11:31:49 am »

Use device spy to see if it actually supports SetNextAVTransportURI.

When the renderer is pulling it could do gapless by simply requesting the next track before the first is finished.
When the renderer is being pushed to, it's not in control, MC is. That's why it MUST support SetNext to be pushed to gaplessly.

stevemac · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2015, 04:07:59 pm »

hi,

If you have more than 1 DLNA server configured in JRiver you will need to associate the device with the with specific DLNA Server in JRiver. to do this....
right click on the DLNA device in Playing Now --> select Associate with DLNA Server (should be the 2nd last option) --> Choose the appropriate DLNA Server

If you don't do this JRiver doesn't know which DLNA server config to use when pushing to the device & will use the 1st one in the list

regards,

Steve

MinaRotter · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2015, 04:43:21 pm »

Thank you all for the helpful advice

After a bit of googling it seems that the stream magic does not supportSetNextAVTransportURI. I have emailed Cambridge Audio to clarify this. Seems that a firmware update should be able to resolve this issue, whether or not they have any intention or interest in doing this, is of course, a different matter! $:-\$

AndrewFG · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2015, 08:05:10 am »

PS use my DMR Analyser to test the capabilities of your renderer (see my sig below); and please email me the report to add to the database.

SafeAsMilk · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2015, 01:20:48 am »

I have suffered exactly the same issues with Stream Magic 6 since I purchased it 2 years ago, including the End Of Queue diply reported by MinRotter
I'm using Windows 7
I know this is a low level question but where do I find the SetNext setting? In JRiver, the Router (I am using wireless but that shouldn't change this) or the SM6?
Cheers

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2015, 06:44:52 am »

In MC's DLNA settings on the server.

AndrewFG · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2015, 08:00:18 am »

Quote from: JimH on February 21, 2015, 06:44:52 am

In MC's DLNA settings on the server.

Erm. Actually its on the right click menu on the renderer...

IslandMD · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2015, 01:03:05 pm »

Quote from: AndrewFG on February 21, 2015, 08:00:18 am

Erm. Actually its on the right click menu on the renderer...

Sorry for reviving this old topic but I'm having the same problem as the OP. Can't get gapless to work with my new Cambridge 851N using JRiver/JRemote. I've run your analyzer program and have the following result:

DMR Report (by Whitebear) for 851N
==================================

Device Description Url=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/description.xml
HTTP Server Header=StreamMagic UPnP/1.0 Radio/1.0 DLNADOC/1.50
Friendly Name=851N
Manufacturer Name=Cambridge Audio
Manufacturer Url=http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/
Model Name=851N
Model Number=2504
Serial Number=000caf83
UPnP Device Type=urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaRenderer:1
UPnP Media Renderer version=1
Unique Device Name=uuid:8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a
X_DLNADOC Element=DMR-1.50
Service Url for RenderingControl=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/RenderingControl/RenderingControl1.xml
Service Url for ConnectionManager=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/ConnectionManager/ConnectionManager1.xml
Service Url for ContentDirectory=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/ContentDirectory/ContentDirectory1.xml
Service Url for AVTransport=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/AVTransport/AVTransport1.xml
AVT:SetNextAVTransportURI (gapless play)=Supported
AVT:SyncPlay (synchronous play)=Feature not available on this DMR version
RC:GetVolume action=Supported
RC:SetVolume action=Supported
AVT:Event Subscription=Fail
Play test file result=Play success => Start Ok / Stop Ok / Subscribe error

Media Center DLNA Server Advanced Settings
==========================================

DLNA=Checked
DLNAExtra=Checked
Enable bitrate Field=Checked
Filter international characters=Off
Include session ID=Off
Playstation 3 Compatible=Off
Present Caption Resources=Checked
Present Small Artwork=Off
Present Subtitle Resources=Checked
Skip Child Count=Off
Use flat URLs=Off
Use full URLs=Off
WMC Compatible=Off

Declared Supported Audio, Image & Video Formats
===============================================

http-get:*:audio/L16:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
http-get:*:audio/mpegurl:*
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*
http-get:*:audio/L16:*
http-get:*:audio/mpeg:*
http-get:*:audio/*:*

Evaluated Supported Audio Formats
=================================

audio/L16   LPCM   Dlna   48000   2   16   Yes
audio/mpeg   MP3   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/x-ms-wma   WMABASE   Fuzzy   *   2   *   No
audio/L16   LPCM   Fuzzy   48000   2   16   Yes
audio/mpeg   MP3   Fuzzy   *   2   *   No
audio/mpegurl      Undefined
audio/*      Undefined

As far as I can tell this report claims that SetNextAVTransportURI is supported. If so, any idea why I don't get gapless playback? I've contacted Cambridge on this issue and they claim they can't get gapless to work with JRiver either. Perhaps there is a setting we are overlooking?

Thanks for your help.

bob · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2015, 02:12:35 pm »

Quote from: IslandMD on November 03, 2015, 01:03:05 pm

Sorry for reviving this old topic but I'm having the same problem as the OP. Can't get gapless to work with my new Cambridge 851N using JRiver/JRemote. I've run your analyzer program and have the following result:

DMR Report (by Whitebear) for 851N
==================================

Device Description Url=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/description.xml
HTTP Server Header=StreamMagic UPnP/1.0 Radio/1.0 DLNADOC/1.50
Friendly Name=851N
Manufacturer Name=Cambridge Audio
Manufacturer Url=http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/
Model Name=851N
Model Number=2504
Serial Number=000caf83
UPnP Device Type=urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaRenderer:1
UPnP Media Renderer version=1
Unique Device Name=uuid:8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a
X_DLNADOC Element=DMR-1.50
Service Url for RenderingControl=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/RenderingControl/RenderingControl1.xml
Service Url for ConnectionManager=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/ConnectionManager/ConnectionManager1.xml
Service Url for ContentDirectory=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/ContentDirectory/ContentDirectory1.xml
Service Url for AVTransport=http://192.168.1.78:8050/8688f491-5d69-4a21-97d3-1daf40f3bd9a/AVTransport/AVTransport1.xml
AVT:SetNextAVTransportURI (gapless play)=Supported
AVT:SyncPlay (synchronous play)=Feature not available on this DMR version
RC:GetVolume action=Supported
RC:SetVolume action=Supported
AVT:Event Subscription=Fail
Play test file result=Play success => Start Ok / Stop Ok / Subscribe error

Media Center DLNA Server Advanced Settings
==========================================

DLNA=Checked
DLNAExtra=Checked
Enable bitrate Field=Checked
Filter international characters=Off
Include session ID=Off
Playstation 3 Compatible=Off
Present Caption Resources=Checked
Present Small Artwork=Off
Present Subtitle Resources=Checked
Skip Child Count=Off
Use flat URLs=Off
Use full URLs=Off
WMC Compatible=Off

Declared Supported Audio, Image & Video Formats
===============================================

http-get:*:audio/L16:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
http-get:*:audio/mpegurl:*
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*
http-get:*:audio/L16:*
http-get:*:audio/mpeg:*
http-get:*:audio/*:*

Evaluated Supported Audio Formats
=================================

audio/L16   LPCM   Dlna   48000   2   16   Yes
audio/mpeg   MP3   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/x-ms-wma   WMABASE   Fuzzy   *   2   *   No
audio/L16   LPCM   Fuzzy   48000   2   16   Yes
audio/mpeg   MP3   Fuzzy   *   2   *   No
audio/mpegurl      Undefined
audio/*      Undefined

As far as I can tell this report claims that SetNextAVTransportURI is supported. If so, any idea why I don't get gapless playback? I've contacted Cambridge on this issue and they claim they can't get gapless to work with JRiver either. Perhaps there is a setting we are overlooking?

Thanks for your help.

The renderer must also properly support the GetMediaInfo command.

IslandMD · « **Reply #14 on:** November 03, 2015, 06:19:03 pm »

Thanks for the reply. I don't see in the Whitebear report if the GetMediaInfo command is supported. I've never heard of this command before. Do you know how I could find out if it's supported or if it can be enabled somehow? My previous dealings with the manufacturer's tech department have not been very helpful.

IslandMD · « **Reply #15 on:** November 04, 2015, 12:20:53 am »

Bob, thanks for your reply. I just ran UPnP inspector and the 851N does support GetMediaInfo in addition to SetNextAVTransportURI. Any idea why I still can't get gapless to work with JRiver? I think I've adjusted every setting I can possibly think of. Any common errors that people tend to make? Thanks.

krmasson · « **Reply #16 on:** November 04, 2015, 01:43:40 am »

I am clearly not an expert, but according to a colleague who knows things, DLNA generally just "doesn't work", because of unclear specs, implemented on different manners by different manufacturers.

With JRiver, two things work perfectly for me (including gapless playback):
- browsing my music library (JRiver as DLNA server) from my Naim player. But I am tight to the rather poor Naim Android app (used in place of the Naim remote) and/or the tiny screen of the Naim.
- playing from JRiver to the Naim through a traditional SPDIF cable. But I have no display on the Naim.

Other combinations are unreliable, playing stops on a aleatory way. Same thing with other media players under Windows. I have just given up.

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** November 04, 2015, 03:44:14 am »

Quote from: krmasson on November 04, 2015, 01:43:40 am

I am clearly not an expert, but according to a colleague who knows things, DLNA generally just "doesn't work", because of unclear specs, implemented on different manners by different manufacturers.

Your colleague is wrong. DLNA implementations do differ, but it generally works.

AndrewFG · « **Reply #18 on:** November 04, 2015, 11:56:59 am »

Quote from: IslandMD on November 04, 2015, 12:20:53 am

Any idea why I still can't get gapless to work with JRiver?

You have obviously already downloaded my DMR Analyzer (but download the latest version from my sig).

So try running the Renderer Tests (see screenshot) on a couple of simple L16 test tracks, with SetNextAVTransportURI enabled, and a) see what happens, and b) listen what happens.

krmasson · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2015, 01:38:37 am »

Quote from: JimH on November 04, 2015, 03:44:14 am

DLNA implementations do differ, but it generally works.

"Generally", that is indeed the issue. I have tried many combinations with MC as server, or MC both server and renderer (spdif output plugged to the Naim player), with external Android controller, or by sending tracks directly from MC to the Naim as DLNA renderer. And **lots** of different Android controllers.
Also tried other media players: some albums play well, and some stops after 2 or 3 tracks, and I have been unable to characterize what makes some albums "different".

Honestly, I am unable to know who/what is faulty, MC or my Naim player, or both, or none, or me.
I have given up: what I want is listen to music, not debug software/hardware, and now I stick to both modes that I know to work.

But in these modes MC is really awesome!
Regards
CM

AndrewFG · « **Reply #20 on:** November 05, 2015, 04:20:00 am »

Quote from: krmasson on November 05, 2015, 01:38:37 am

"Generally", that is indeed the issue. I have tried many combinations with MC as server, or MC both server and renderer (spdif output plugged to the Naim player), with external Android controller, or by sending tracks directly from MC to the Naim as DLNA renderer. And **lots** of different Android controllers.
Also tried other media players: some albums play well, and some stops after 2 or 3 tracks, and I have been unable to characterize what makes some albums "different".

Honestly, I am unable to know who/what is faulty, MC or my Naim player, or both, or none, or me.
I have given up: what I want is listen to music, not debug software/hardware, and now I stick to both modes that I know to work.

In the DLNA specification there is just one single MANDATORY audio media format which all renderers and servers MUST support. Namely Linear 16 bit PCM (also known as L16 or PCM L16 No Header).

The only downside of L16 is that it forces MC to down convert 24 bit hi-res audio to 16 bit. Now there is a format called L24 which is the 24 bit equivalent of L16. But the bad news is that this format is NOT mandatory (actually not even mentioned) in DLNA. But the good news is that both MC and NAIM do support both L16 and L24 very well (see the list of MC/Naim supported PCM formats below).

=> Therefore in general, the MC DLNA server setting that will always work on any DLNA compliant renderer is "Mode: Specified output format, Format: PCM L16 No Header"
=> Therefore in the specific case of your NAIM, (if you have/want hi res audio), the MC DLNA server setting is "Mode: Specified output format, Format: PCM L24 No Header"

Concerning OP's topic of "Gapless play", please note that this function (SetNextAVTransportURI support) is NOT a mandatory part of the DLNA specification, but rather an OPTIONAL feature. But nevertheless the NAIM does claim support for this feature.

=> Therefore in general, the MC renderer setting that will always work on any DLNA compliant renderer is "Disable SetNext support"
=> Therefore in the specific case of your NAIM, the MC renderer setting that should also work on that renderer is "Enable SetNext support"

Linear 16 bit PCM Audio Formats Supported by ALL DLNA Renderers

http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=96000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=96000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=88200;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=88200;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM

Linear 24 bit PCM Audio Formats Supported by MC and NAIM (among others)

http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=44100;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=44100;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=48000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=48000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=96000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=96000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=88200;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=88200;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM

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Author Topic: Gapless DLNA not working (Read 12039 times)