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Author Topic: Windows 10 impressions  (Read 26589 times)

BryanC

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Windows 10 impressions
« on: July 31, 2015, 10:58:57 am »

So what are everyone's thoughts on Windows 10? I've been in the dev preview for about 6 months so I saw the direction they were headed, but in some aspects I couldn't believe that they didn't learn from certain past mistakes in Windows 8.

Pros:
No more start screen (unified start menu is a nice compromise, although I won't be using their 'app tiles')
DX12 (hypothetically)
Edge is a nice start but won't sway users without extensions/adblock
Driver download prompts
Multiple desktops
No edge effects

Wash:
Defender re-enabled by default
Default privacy settings are too 'open'
Cortana/Bing incarnate
Icons (you love 'em or hate 'em)
No WMC
Continuum

Cons:
Overly complex privacy settings
STILL a hugely inconsistent UI - I see elements of Explorer, Aero, Metro depending on where I am
Multiple locations for settings
Never knowing where you will end up when clicking things (will I stay in Metro or be sent elsewhere?)
Default wallpaper reminds me of the Star Trek Enterprise warp drive, but in a bad circa-1987 CGI way
Default apps are uninstallable
Blinding white titlebars
Micropayments built into default apps
Ads on my start menu by default


I've been fully migrating to Fedora since Windows 8 (only my HTPC is still running Windows--due solely to MC) but have been hoping I could return someday to Windows. It honestly doesn't look like that will ever be happening. I think the upgrade from Win8 and Win 8.1 is worthwhile but when asked, I still can't recommend that anyone upgrades from Windows 7.
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SamuriHL

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 11:03:10 am »

Been using it since January.  I honestly like it.  It's not ready for prime time just yet, but, with some bug fixing it will be.  MC runs very nicely on it.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2015, 11:20:01 am »

Been using it since January.  I honestly like it.  It's not ready for prime time just yet, but, with some bug fixing it will be.  MC runs very nicely on it.

Same here, it's been working pretty good thus far.

And I believe you can uninstall *some* if not all default apps using PowerShell commands.
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mwillems

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2015, 11:27:09 am »

Most of the most invasive/unpleasant parts of Win 10 fall away if you don't create an online account.  With a local account, things are greatly simplified (from my perspective).  It's easy enough to hide/disable most of the default apps and get a windows-7-like experience with a little customization.

The speed and graphical smoothness are much improved over windows 8, which I appreciate.  The task view is also big pro for me, it's a nice "Gnomish" touch that as a most-of-the-time Gnome user, I appreciate.  MC seems to run great on it from my end.

But the stability is not there yet.  After upgrading from 7 and spending a few hours with Win 10, I managed to get a blue screen on boot ("unavailable boot device" or some such) by installing a non-optional microsoft update.  Most humorous was that it would boot into the repair utility, claim it couldn't repair the issue, and then give up.  I tried rebooting a dozen or so times, and I was starting to despair and thinking about starting over when I figured, what the hell, and tried forcing a boot into safe mode (which was not offered by the fixit utility).  To my surprise it booted.  I then rebooted without changing any settings and the normal boot worked.  So somehow or other, the mere act of booting into safe mode fixed whatever boot issue the update created, which Microsoft's "boot repair" utility could not fix  ?  

So there are still some kinks that need worked out.
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BryanC

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2015, 12:50:09 pm »

And I believe you can uninstall *some* if not all default apps using PowerShell commands.

Yes, something like this:

Code: [Select]
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.3DBuilder | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.Getstarted | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.MicrosoftSolitaireCollection | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.SkypeApp | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.WindowsMaps | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.BingWeather | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.Office.OneNote | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.XboxApp | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.ZuneMusic | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.ZuneVideo | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.BingSports | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.BingNews | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.WindowsPhone | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.BingFinance | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.WindowsSoundRecorder | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.Windows.Photos | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.WindowsCamera | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.WindowsAlarms | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers -Name Microsoft.People | Remove-AppxPackage
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 05:43:34 am »

I've got a laptop and a tablet running it.  Generally quite happy with it.
Tablet definitely feels like it could do with more tweaking but generally quite happy with it.  Even then I'm much happier with a Windows 10 tablet than I was with various Android tablets.

jmone

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2015, 06:04:51 am »

Yeah it looks good to me.... though I still do like "Classic Shell" for the start menu
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astromo

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2015, 01:15:47 pm »

Most of the most invasive/unpleasant parts of Win 10 fall away if you don't create an online account.  With a local account, things are greatly simplified (from my perspective).  It's easy enough to hide/disable most of the default apps and get a windows-7-like experience with a little customization.

hmmm ... reports like this are worth being aware of:
Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out
Looks like there are plenty of windows for M$ to look back into your system that are on by default.

Yeah it looks good to me.... though I still do like "Classic Shell" for the start menu
I'll vote with you on that one. I'm a fan myself.
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mwillems

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2015, 02:04:02 pm »

hmmm ... reports like this are worth being aware of:
Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out
Looks like there are plenty of windows for M$ to look back into your system that are on by default.

The majority of that stuff is irrelevant if you don't use a microsoft account and don't use the integrated apps (neither of which I will ever do).  It is distressing just how invasive the defaults are. 

There are a few other things that are worth turning off that are still an issue even with a local account and no "default" apps (the settings under feedback and diagnostics are particularly worrying if you read what they actually mean), but using a local account and removing most of the metro apps is the 75% solution.
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astromo

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 05:38:25 am »

The majority of that stuff is irrelevant if you don't use a microsoft account and don't use the integrated apps (neither of which I will ever do).  It is distressing just how invasive the defaults are.  

There are a few other things that are worth turning off that are still an issue even with a local account and no "default" apps (the settings under feedback and diagnostics are particularly worrying if you read what they actually mean), but using a local account and removing most of the metro apps is the 75% solution.

This is another cheeky default feature:
Windows 10 Uses Your Bandwidth to Distribute Updates, Disable It Here
Too bad if you've got limited download. Naughty stuff in my book. Appeal to community spirit and request users to volunteer and M$ might actually generate goodwill. One of those weird, old school concepts that still works around where I live.
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mwillems

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 08:09:38 pm »

I found this guide to be useful, especially the instructions on how to remove onedrive completely (including from explorer):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3f38ed/guide_how_to_disable_data_logging_in_w10

Some of the "complex" steps in the above link also blow away the diagnostic keylogger, which shouldn't have made it into the RTM, but appears to be present in the retail release. 

Obviously, be selective, not all of the advice is sensible for everyone, but at least it tells how to get rid of some of the odder stuff (like forced onedrive integration).
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astromo

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2015, 02:03:24 am »

I found this guide to be useful, especially the instructions on how to remove onedrive completely (including from explorer):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3f38ed/guide_how_to_disable_data_logging_in_w10

Some of the "complex" steps in the above link also blow away the diagnostic keylogger, which shouldn't have made it into the RTM, but appears to be present in the retail release. 

Obviously, be selective, not all of the advice is sensible for everyone, but at least it tells how to get rid of some of the odder stuff (like forced onedrive integration).

Nice one. I pretty well cottoned on to all the bits in the Before & After Installation sections. I'll go through the Slightly Complex at my leisure.

For the Up to You section, no surprises that MC is already featuring pretty heavily on my system.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 04:53:06 am »

TenForums is a good resource. They have a lot of useful tutorials/tips - if anyone is interested. http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/

Also of interest - on the Win10 DVD player app - http://www.tenforums.com/windows-10-news/9484-microsoft-rolls-out-windows-dvd-player-windows-10-users.html
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rft183

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2015, 01:07:45 pm »

I like Windows 10 for the most part.  I wish it were a little more stable, though.  It seems like, quite often, when I click the Start Button or the Notification Center nothing happens.  After a little while, say 30 seconds, everything will start working again.  I've only had it installed for a couple days now, so I'm hoping it's just doing a little settling.  I will say that the upgrade experience on my Windows/Linux machine was awful.  I had to completely wipe out Linux and reformat the partitions to get Windows 10 to install.  I had been having issues with Windows 8.1 updates as well on that machine, so I wasn't surprised.  I've since reinstalled Linux.  Hopefully I won't have issues with the updates from now on...
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drewh111

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2015, 02:35:13 pm »

Running Windows 10 on my laptop and music server with MC20. Seems totally fine and I am glad they went back to the start menu. I use JRemote and Remote Desktop to control and maintain my music server. I haven't had any stability problems. I really only do music on JRiver and don't run any other apps on my music server.
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prg02

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2015, 11:21:40 pm »

Tried it but the laptop that I use as a server has dual video card.  I had problems with the drivers and I could not make the HDMI (that I use to connect to my receiver) work.  I kinda like it though.

Regards
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~OHM~

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2015, 01:18:39 am »

what a pile of crap it is....
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Daydream

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2015, 03:43:30 am »

How are they gonna get enterprises on board with this? On the same take no RSAT tools for Win10 RTM, just "a coming soon". Thanks, the sysadmin in me feels the love since day one...

Been a Windows user since forever, but since the last thing I was missing was a "social" OS, now I'm suddenly turning my head... "Linux... why not?!". Before they hack me, I'll hack them. Kali 2.0 coming out August 11. :)
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flac.rules

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2015, 06:21:01 am »

MS seem to be working a bit to slow, win10 seems somewhat rushed, even though the changes are pretty small. som annoyances are:

Edge is unstable, doesn't seem to be a finished product.
Still no good scaling, come on MS, this should have been fixed long ago
Forced defender and updates, no thank you.
260 path limit still in place.
No updates on new filesystems?

All in all an adequate update. But more because win8 isn't so good than win10 being a power-house. The free upgrade is nice, although somewhat more of a hassle than it should be.
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glynor

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2015, 08:06:36 am »

The lack of RSAT is annoying me daily.
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kstuart

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2015, 03:07:02 pm »

Unlike all the other OSes, still no built-in USB 2.0 Audio support (much to the consternation of DAC manufacturers everywhere).

somebike

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2015, 03:50:04 pm »

I installed Windows 10 on a non-critical laptop to test it out.  I disabled all of the terrible privacy issues.  I have had problems with Wi-Fi randomly crashing such that the laptop requires a reboot.  I followed some guides to tweak the Wi-Fi and it has improved, but it still crashes randomly, albeit less frequently.  I definitely will wait to install on my more critical machines.  Thus, my conclusion is not ready for prime time, but could have potential.  I think their default choices are awful and non-savvy users will get screwed, but I also realize information is money as they have learned from Google.
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astromo

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2015, 04:09:28 pm »

... but I also realize information is money as they have learned from Google.

Or to paraphrase the acronym that Robert Heinlein wrote a book around, TANSTAAFL.
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JimH

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2015, 04:44:04 pm »

I installed Windows 10 on a non-critical laptop to test it out.  I disabled all of the terrible privacy issues.  I have had problems with Wi-Fi randomly crashing such that the laptop requires a reboot.  I followed some guides to tweak the Wi-Fi and it has improved, but it still crashes randomly, albeit less frequently.  I definitely will wait to install on my more critical machines.  Thus, my conclusion is not ready for prime time, but could have potential.  I think their default choices are awful and non-savvy users will get screwed, but I also realize information is money as they have learned from Google.
Dd you try updating the driver for your Wi-Fi?
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hollidayjr

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2015, 07:24:33 am »

I just finished installing Win 10 on 6 computers this past week, all with different hardware, etc. All 6 went flawlessly with no problems. I also run JRiver MC on 3 of them and after a reinstall as Jim suggested, all 3 MC installations work just like under Win8.1. This has been the best windows upgrade Microsoft has ever done -I salute them. Privacy issues are a fact of life with every thing we say or do these days. Just my two cents worth.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 11:15:29 am »

The upgrade process has been fairly smooth, but the user experience isn't as good.

The biggest issues I've had (and others are having, per TenFourms site) is with networking. If you setup any Microsoft Accounts on your home computer(s) and try to network with Local Accounts - it doesn't generally work. In my case I had to switch all my computers to Local accounts to get them talking to each other. Even a HomeGroup in this case isn't working.

The other issue is with file/folder security. It seems that many of the file/folder permissions  I am used to (with an Administrator account) has changed. Simply moving files around or deleting a file in many cases will often bring up the "you don't have permission" message. Going to the file's properties and adjusting security settings is the fix, but a lot of new Win10 users are posting with this issue and it should be happening. One forum poster said it appears to be related to OneDrive its sharing of folders/files.

I don't mind too much running into these problems as a first-implementer, but I think a lot of inexperienced users that jumped to upgrade will have a tougher time. I would recommend to those that do not like fixing things to wait for the first Service Pack to come out before upgrading to Win10.
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astromo

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 03:29:02 pm »

Because I opted for a local account straight up and used the advice in some of the links above to disable background stuff like one drive, I've not had a problem (... so far). I'd expect that this minimalist approach will help avoid problems.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2015, 05:56:10 pm »

That's the smart way to do it.
There is a "cumulative update" coming out today that is supposed to fix a bunch of things (although the exact list of fixes is unknown).
It's KB3081424.
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somebike

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2015, 06:21:23 pm »

Dd you try updating the driver for your Wi-Fi?

Drivers are up to date.  It has not crashed since I posted until I rebooted today after the update KB3081424.  Hopefully, the Wi-Fi issues will be fixed as other users have reported the same problem.  Nevertheless, I would recommend that anyone that has a critical device that is working fine wait until they work out more bugs.  I just wanted to play around with it and use that machine to determine when I felt comfortable making the switch with other machines.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2015, 08:25:16 pm »

Wi-Fi has been a total nightmare on Windows 10 for me and other users. I *still* have to use wired ethernet because of that.
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Zhillsguy

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2015, 09:19:16 pm »

Unlike all the other OSes, still no built-in USB 2.0 Audio support (much to the consternation of DAC manufacturers everywhere).

+1. It is inexcusable why MS hasn't done this WAY before now.... it CAN'T be budget constraints....
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astromo

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2015, 02:07:41 am »

That's the smart way to do it.
There is a "cumulative update" coming out today that is supposed to fix a bunch of things (although the exact list of fixes is unknown).
It's KB3081424.

Yeah, M$ have dumbed down the background info on updates even more. Here's the KB item, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3081424. Look at all those files ..  :o - no wonder a restart is required. And all you get by way of explanation is:
Quote
This update includes improvements to enhance the functionality of Windows 10.

Windows 10 updates are cumulative. Therefore, this package contains all previously-released fixes (see KB 3074683). If you have installed previous updates, only the new fixes that are contained in this package will be downloaded and installed to your computer.

Plus, you only get the option to defer the update schedule not avoid/ignore it completely (if that happens to be your desire).
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CountryBumkin

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2015, 10:03:46 am »

There is a way to prevent Drivers from being auto updated (i.e. perhaps the older NVidia driver works better, etc.)
See this tip http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8280-windows-updates-hide-show-windows-10-a.html

and http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8013-windows-update-automatic-updates-enable-disable-windows-10-a.html
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bmoura

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2015, 11:20:42 am »

Wi-Fi has been a total nightmare on Windows 10 for me and other users. I *still* have to use wired ethernet because of that.

Hmm, Wi-Fi with Windows 10 has been working fine here.  No Ethernet required.
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kstuart

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2015, 11:24:47 am »

There is a way to prevent Drivers from being auto updated (i.e. perhaps the older NVidia driver works better, etc.)
See this tip http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8280-windows-updates-hide-show-windows-10-a.html

and http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8013-windows-update-automatic-updates-enable-disable-windows-10-a.html
This is clearly going towards a situation where everyone has exactly the same computer system because it is easier for the manufacturer.   Somehow people have been conned that this loss of freedom requires a government.

In reality, all businesses gravitate towards situations where they have more control, and the consumer has less control (despite what the Economics textbooks say).

hollidayjr

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2015, 01:48:54 pm »

Hmm, Wi-Fi with Windows 10 has been working fine here.  No Ethernet required.


Same here.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2015, 08:23:23 am »

BTW. Windows Service Release 1 is to be released next week (8/10). Microsoft seems to be pretty quick about fixing things in this OS.
http://www.tenforums.com/windows-10-news/13736-windows-10-service-release-1-inbound-next-week.html
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somebike

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2015, 08:44:25 am »

For those interested, I was among the people having Wi-Fi problems and I have not had it crash for 4 days.  I assume update KB3081424 fixed my issue.
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BryanC

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2015, 10:37:38 am »

I wanted to give people a heads up about a 'little' issue I ran into re: Windows 10.

To start at the beginning, I built the first incarnation of my HTPC in 2009 just after the release of Windows 7. I bought a copy at full retail price in late-2009 and installed it on the HTPC. Over the course of running Windows 7 I made a few hardware upgrades that sometimes required me calling into MS to 'transfer' my product key to my new hardware. A few years ago I bought a Windows 8.1 upgrade through my employer at the time to move the HTPC from Win7 to Win8.1. Over the last few years I also performed a few hardware upgrades, some of of which required me to call MS to transfer my product key to my new hardware.

On July 29th I upgraded the currently running Win8.1 installation to Win10. Hurray! Everything went smoothly. However, last week we had a terrible electrical storm run through our area and my computer got zapped. I don't know if it was an electrical surge or static electricity that built up in the air. It may have just been a bad coincidence. Regardless, I tested all of the HTPC components individually in my desktop machine and came to the conclusion that the only component that was truly fried was the motherboard. I bought a replacement online and this weekend had the opportunity to install it. I boot up the computer and find that Windows has deactivated itself. "No problem, I've seen this before," I tell myself. The interesting thing is that usually when my Windows installation had deactivated itself due to hardware changes in the past, it would prompt me with a number to call to reactivate as if my product key could see that it was installed on different hardware and was willing to be transferred over, if necessary. Well, I didn't get that prompt this time so I did some searching online to get the MS number to call.

Eventually I found one, called them up, and they told me that the Win10 licenses are no longer transferable, even if the old hardware has been decommissioned. Since Win10 no longer tracks product keys, it relies on the old versions of Windows to transfer product keys and then activate the upgrade to Win10. Essentially, my retail copy of Win8.1 had been turned into an OEM copy of Win10 upon upgrading.

So here I was stuck. The only way to install Windows 10 again is to completely wipe my drive (which has been in continuous use for 6 years, never had to wipe it before), install Win8.1 (that I don't own any install media for, since the download link I bought for the upgrade disc expired years ago), enter my Win8.1 product key, call MS to have them transfer it to my new hardware, and then redownload and reinstall Win10 via the same upgrade path I just did a month ago.

Screw them. Seriously. This is the way that software licensing is headed: you don't own your Windows OS any more, just like our farmers don't own their John Deere tractors. And at least in my case I still had the 'opportunity' to waste an entire weekend reinstalling 2 OSes and setting up all of my HTPC and server program settings again. What happens in a year when you can no longer secure the 'free upgrade?' I honestly don't know, but if the current methodology is still the case then MS is simply trying to get you 'hooked' on Win10. As soon as you replace your motherboard or something else that requires reactivation, you'll have to wipe your installation and go back to Win8.1. Your Win10 activation is dependent on the hash stored on their servers that is calculated from your system configuration. That hash doesn't exist for your new hardware so you'll have to buy Win10 to continue to use it.

I went the sane route of course and illegally activated my Win10 installation via one of the 4 or 5 tools available in the shadier part of the internet. If MS wants to come after me for illegally activating a 'free' upgrade that effectively overwrites two products I've already bought retail copies of (and have the product keys to prove it), then nothing would make me happier.
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Hendrik

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2015, 10:46:53 am »

This only applies to the free upgrade for Windows 10, and was clearly documented as such in their terms. Should read those sometimes, especially when something claims to be "free". ;) It specifies "free upgrade for the lifetime of the PC" (paraphrased), which they tie to the motherboard.
Or move to Germany, which is exempt from that rule because our laws make it illegal. :D We can also transfer OEM licenses to another PC and everything (even legally buy OEM licenses for extremely cheap from vendors)

If you buy a retail version of Win10, you shouldn't have that problem.

PS:
You can download official install ISOs from MS directly without any secret link. ie. for 8.1. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media
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BryanC

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2015, 11:10:07 am »

This only applies to the free upgrade for Windows 10, and was clearly documented as such in their terms. Should read those sometimes, especially when something claims to be "free". ;) It specifies "free upgrade for the lifetime of the PC" (paraphrased), which they tie to the motherboard.

The part I'm most infuriated about is that they will just leave a user sitting there with a deactivated copy of Win10 on reboot. The only feasible option is for me to wipe my drive and download 10GB worth of Microsoft Windows all over again? Really, in 2015? How hard would it be for them to tie your old product key to your new hardware? It certainly couldn't be that hard since that is exactly what they had been doing for a decade prior to this. Maybe this paradigm is what 'new-wave' users have come to expect, but it certainly comes as a shock to a long-time system builder.
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rudyrednose

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2015, 02:45:14 pm »

Agreed, this is no surprise.

Up to july 28th 2016 (year One), if the same thing happens to me, I will
- fresh install Win8.1 on the new motherboard and activate
- immediately upgrade to Win10, activate
- redo a fresh install of Win10 and activate
- customize Win10 to get rid of the "big brother" spying stuff ...
- take a backup image of the drive (bare OS image)
- ONLY THEN will I install and customize all my software.  
- then take a fresh backup image of the drive (like I always do on a new OS install).

I only use local accounts.

I advise everyone to make an install USB flash drive AND download the ISO file.

Question is : what will I do after july 28th 2016 ?
Hint : if by then JRMCv22 for Linux is on par with the Windows version, bye-bye M$ on the HTPCs  ;D
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RoderickGI

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2015, 08:46:49 pm »

Hmmm, as this was a repair and not an upgrade, I would have escalated with the Microsoft call centre, and if they wouldn't do that, hung up and called back to get another customer service person. I don't think that the "sorry your PC was damaged by a voltage spike, but your Windows 10 licence died with your motherboard" response would work in Australia, with our consumer laws. However, sometimes one has to assert some force to get suppliers to honour those laws.

I would have thought that there would still be the option to do something like a Windows Repair and supply your original licence on original media, or keyed in.

Windows 10 doesn't track licences any more? How do they know your installation has been activated?

Does this mean that they have trashed their points system for recognising when a system has been changed, as opposed to just upgraded? I mean, if you change a disk, perhaps the hash doesn't change. But if you upgrade a processor, you can bet that it will. A processor upgrade does not seem like a reasonable reason for having to buy another licence of Windows 10. But then, I don't believe that a motherboard and processor upgrade justifies a new purchase either.

It seems that I will have some extra research to do before I accept their free upgrade...  >:( >:( >:(
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

jaxtherogue

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2015, 08:52:52 pm »

Hmmm, as this was a repair and not an upgrade, I would have escalated with the Microsoft call centre, and if they wouldn't do that, hung up and called back to get another customer service person. I don't think that the "sorry your PC was damaged by a voltage spike, but your Windows 10 licence died with your motherboard" response would work in Australia, with our consumer laws. However, sometimes one has to assert some force to get suppliers to honour those laws.

I would have thought that there would still be the option to do something like a Windows Repair and supply your original licence on original media, or keyed in.

Windows 10 doesn't track licences any more? How do they know your installation has been activated?

Does this mean that they have trashed their points system for recognising when a system has been changed, as opposed to just upgraded? I mean, if you change a disk, perhaps the hash doesn't change. But if you upgrade a processor, you can bet that it will. A processor upgrade does not seem like a reasonable reason for having to buy another licence of Windows 10. But then, I don't believe that a motherboard and processor upgrade justifies a new purchase either.

It seems that I will have some extra research to do before I accept their free upgrade...  >:( >:( >:(

Microsoft support will almost always activate a Windows license with little argument. Just call them up and tell them you upgraded a CPU. 9/10 they will help you get reactivate- you perhaps need to push them a bit harder and tell them it was a repair replacement and not a decommission.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2015, 09:07:47 pm »

Well that is what I thought, and was my experience in the past.

But it wasn't BryanC's experience. Read above.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

astromo

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2015, 09:08:48 pm »

Hint : if by then JRMCv22 for Linux is on par with the Windows version, bye-bye M$ on the HTPCs  ;D

BryanC, no surprise from my end. Thanks for the word up. I knew there had to be a catch with Win10 and this is what I suspected but didn't confirm because I didn't want to wade through licence agreement in detail. Just seems like incentive to shift to Linux to me.

Agree with rudyrednose, looking forward to MC for Linux with TV capability and then my reliance on Windows largely disappears.
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glynor

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2015, 09:59:59 pm »

The only way to install Windows 10 again is to completely wipe my drive (which has been in continuous use for 6 years, never had to wipe it before), install Win8.1 (that I don't own any install media for, since the download link I bought for the upgrade disc expired years ago), enter my Win8.1 product key, call MS to have them transfer it to my new hardware, and then redownload and reinstall Win10 via the same upgrade path I just did a month ago.

I'm fairly certain, from reading a bit about this online, that you don't actually have to wipe the drive, if you haven't done so.

Instead, you could do this:

1. Beg, borrow, or steal a second drive for the computer, and install Windows 8.1 on that drive (with the current install's drive disconnected).
2. Go through the dumbness to get it upgraded to Windows 10.
3. This creates a new Hardware license for Windows 10 with your current motherboard.
4. Disconnect the borrowed drive and plug your current one back in.
5. Boot.
6. It should now activate because the motherboard matches expectations on their activation servers.

You can change hard drives without breaking activation (and add RAM). You can't change motherboards.
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glynor

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2015, 10:04:41 pm »

Also, I've read a bunch of reports from people who say it does work to call in if you changed motherboards (including Paul Thurrott).

Did you call via the number provided this way?
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/950929

I think you should really just get an automated system that walks you through it.

If you called another number, perhaps the volume license activation center, those are different people and they have told me incorrect stuff about consumer licensing before (basically just get you off the phone because they can't help you anyway).
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BryanC

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2015, 10:32:15 pm »

Microsoft support will almost always activate a Windows license with little argument. Just call them up and tell them you upgraded a CPU. 9/10 they will help you get reactivate- you perhaps need to push them a bit harder and tell them it was a repair replacement and not a decommission.

I never had a problem doing this in Win7 or Win8.1 as I shared in my anecdote. This was the first time I was denied. It wasn't a 'we aren't going to do this for you," it was a "our Win10 activation servers are not equipped to handle this sort of thing" type of answer.

I'm fairly certain, from reading a bit about this online, that you don't actually have to wipe the drive, if you haven't done so.

Instead, you could do this:

1. Beg, borrow, or steal a second drive for the computer, and install Windows 8.1 on that drive (with the current install's drive disconnected).
2. Go through the dumbness to get it upgraded to Windows 10.
3. This creates a new Hardware license for Windows 10 with your current motherboard.
4. Disconnect the borrowed drive and plug your current one back in.
5. Boot.
6. It should now activate because the motherboard matches expectations on their activation servers.

You can change hard drives without breaking activation (and add RAM). You can't change motherboards.

This is a good idea and something I had considered doing, but I couldn't find much evidence online to back up my thought. I will try it out this weekend.

Also, I've read a bunch of reports from people who say it does work to call in if you changed motherboards (including Paul Thurrott).

Did you call via the number provided this way?
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/950929

I think you should really just get an automated system that walks you through it.

If you called another number, perhaps the volume license activation center, those are different people and they have told me incorrect stuff about consumer licensing before (basically just get you off the phone because they can't help you anyway).

I tried calling those activation centers (I was not given a number to call in the activation settings) but nothing was automated (it had me state the version of Windows I used right off the bat so I figure that it probably will give you different prompts per OS version). What I was told was that the activation servers for Win10 upgrades do not operate on product keys and only hashes. The only way to transfer a product key on an upgrade version of Windows 10 is by using the OS you upgraded from and its original product key. This makes sense to me since the product keys that people have entered to move from 10240 to the official RTM have all been generic. In order for me to be given a new product key for Win10, they would have to issue me some type of retail key, which I imagine they aren't keen on doing. If this is a possibility, I'll of course spend some more time on the activation call to plead my case.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Windows 10 impressions
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2015, 11:05:14 pm »

The only way to transfer a product key on an upgrade version of Windows 10 is by using the OS you upgraded from and its original product key.

So the product key from a retail Windows 7 disc should activate a Windows 10 upgrade, installation, or reinstallation after repairing (replacing) a motherboard. Theoretically. Maybe only for the first year.

Does Windows 10 offer you a place to key in a product key from an earlier version, when you install it from scratch, or need to activate it again after a repair?
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner
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