INTERACT FORUM

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?  (Read 8347 times)

OverTheAir

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« on: August 05, 2015, 02:30:43 pm »

I have installed MC21 over the top of MC20.  Seems to have gone OK but its not clear what user data/settings are supposed to automatically transfer ... and conversely which do not? 

1. Do I need to restore the last library version from MC20 to make sure all changes I've made in MC20 get restored/selected for MC21? 
2. Cover Art in the "C:\Users\John\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Cover Art" has not been updated to reflect the contents in the similar MC20 Covert Art directory.  Does this have to be manually changed?  I had to do this when I migrated recently from MC19 to MC20 so I'm wondering if I am doing something wrong when I upgrade from one version to the next?  When I didn't manually migrate this cover art for MC 19->20 I ended up with incorrect images being created for shows/seasons that subsequently needed correcting.
3. Anything else I need to/should do for the migration?
Thanks
John
Logged

ferday

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1732
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 02:49:25 pm »

everything should transfer over just fine, all settings etc.   i just made the crossover and as usual everything is set as it was with MC20. 

as to the cover art...you can cut/paste into the MC21 folder, or conversely go into options>file location>cover art and change the folder name from MC21 to MC20 and everything will be as it was
Logged

imeric

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1476
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 02:50:13 pm »

skins don't transfer
Logged

ferday

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1732
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 02:53:25 pm »

i use a modified Noire (modified simply through the skin effects tool) and it has transferred from 19-20-21 with all my changes intact

i don't use fancy "non default" skins so i can't answer that
Logged

mwillems

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5233
  • "Linux Merit Badge" Recipient
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 03:07:31 pm »

The upgrade dumped my zoneswitch settings (even after a library restore), so you might want to write those down.  Otherwise everything migrated across nicely, including built thumbnails (which someone else reported that they lost).
Logged

mojave

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3732
  • Requires "iTunes or better" so I installed JRiver
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 03:17:23 pm »

VST Plugins don't transfer and will need to be reloaded.
Logged

kstuart

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1955
  • Upgraded to MC22 Master using preorder discount
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2015, 03:23:21 pm »

TV timers (aka "Recording Rules"), TV tuner profiles, and previously scanned channels all migrated over automatically.

ferday

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1732
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2015, 03:40:34 pm »

The upgrade dumped my zoneswitch settings (even after a library restore), so you might want to write those down.  Otherwise everything migrated across nicely, including built thumbnails (which someone else reported that they lost).

ugh, thanks for posting that mwillems.  i just switched and haven't used any, but checking looks like it happened to me as well.
Logged

jbbernar

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2015, 05:46:55 pm »

My thumbnails and zone rules also failed to transfer. Let's see how long it takes to build 45,000 thumbnails!
Logged

kstuart

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1955
  • Upgraded to MC22 Master using preorder discount
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2015, 05:51:47 pm »

One Tip:  Before you exit MC20 for the last time, change the setting in tools->Options->Startup->Windows Startup to "Nothing".

Then be sure to set the same setting in MC21 to the correct setting.

imeric

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1476
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2015, 11:56:26 am »

@ferday my customsised Black didn't transfer I had to do it manually and same for the visualisaiton..Maybe it has something to do with what kstuart is suggesting.  I had the server on when I upgraded (I think but not sure...)

On my side aside from the MCE Remote guide issue (that fixed itself and as per another post), skins and visualisation everything else looks ok so far...I reconfigured the Televsion part but I recall that everything had transferred Ok.

However a little procedure on how to upgrade would be nice...To make sure we don't lose anything or know what to change. (ie quickly Explaining what gets transfered, what should be reconfigured due to changes in the software etc..., How the 2 versions can or can not run side by side etc..)

Nothing big but a couple of paragraphs.. I didn't see anything in the upgrade sections posted by Jimh.  If it's somewhere I'd like to know where.

thx
Logged

OverTheAir

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2015, 03:17:01 pm »

I agree that some guidance would have been helpful and thanks for the various comments following my original post.  A humble suggestion for the JR team that perhaps there is an opportunity for some "continuous improvement" in this area as part of an actual migration?  It seems a number of the previous observations are something that might be detected during a migration with an opportunity presented for the upgrader to take action.  For example suggesting the server be shut down, offering to disable auto start in the preceding version, offering to migrate over cover art? 

Most if not all of the commenters in this thread (excluding myself here) seem to be well versed in PC's and also with MC, but can still be caught out.  So a little hand holding would probably go even further for more casual, less technically savvy, time strapped users.

Just my 2c.
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2015, 05:06:39 pm »

Keep in mind that for the first 3-4 months of development, at least, MC21 is early status and should really be viewed as a "work in progress".  Things may, and probably will, break.

The smart money is on continuing to use MC20 as your "daily driver" unless you're okay with things breaking every once in a while.

That's why upgrading to the new version doesn't set itself as the default, and doesn't uninstall the old version. You can decide for yourself when you're ready to move over to it full time. Some of us crazy people on the beta board like to live on the "bleeding edge" all the time, and move to it right away, but we're also prepared to deal with it when things break here and there.

If you're not, then go ahead and install it and check it out, but then close it and go back to using MC20 for a while.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

OverTheAir

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2015, 06:03:58 pm »

Normally deferring an upgrade on a "daily driver" is probably wise.  However, in the case of MC20 to MC21 some will need to migrate sooner than might otherwise be the case/prudent because of the recent "missing in action" EPG issue with MC20.  It was confirmed the EPG fix wasn't going to be rolled back into MC20.

Also, to clarify I would certainly agree that a user should be presented with options rather than mandatory default actions when upgrading, precisely to provide the type of flexibility you described. Having recently upgraded from MC19 to MC20 just prior to the release of MC21, I can confirm that a user may benefit from a more interactive migration at any point in time, even at the end of a development cycle, not just early in the development cycle.
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2015, 06:55:54 pm »

I don't necessarily disagree. I was just commenting that, in some ways, the fact that it leaves your existing system alone and you have to "switch to" the new version somewhat manually is a benefit. I do agree that it would be "easier" for many users for it to be more seamless and automatic.

On the other hand, there are benefits to how they carefully migrate the Library (by cloning it) and not all of the settings.  All settings can't always be migrated without substantial work on their end, first of all. Even attempting it hamstrings them a bit in major changes to the current "infrastructure" of the program (they'd think, I'd like to fix this, but then I have to spend two weeks perfecting the settings migration, so maybe next year).

There are also a lot of users each year who come along with some borked setting, then install the new version and then say "Hey, upgrading to MC21 fixed my issue." If you gave them the option, those same users would probably migrate their settings, and then still be sad with the new version. So, the once-a-year "reset to something known" (the defaults) can do a lot of good, particularly for users who like to fiddle (even when in over their heads).

Also, if the upgrade necessitates a backwards-incompatible Library change, migrating settings automatically could be very dangerous. That's because, one of the settings is (of course) the other Libraries you have loaded in the Library Manager. If they migrate that, and then the user switches to an alternate Library, and it is "upgraded" to the new version, there could be some serious hurt fee-fees when the user discovers the auxiliary (or perhaps main) Library can no longer be opened by the older version. They could work around that by a warning, of course, but then that's one more warning that people blindly click through (warning dialog overload is a serious issue, look no further than Vista's failure for an example).

And it is more code to write and maintain, and blah blah blah. So... There's stuff on both sides.

In my experience with MC for many, many, many major versions, you can basically always migrate almost all settings yourself by making a Library Backup in the old version, opening the new version, and restoring the Library Backup. That remains true here, with the possible exception of the ZoneSwitching rules (for which I believe there was some fairly major surgery behind the scenes).

I haven't thoroughly tested with MC21 yet, but in the past the rule was:
* The currently loaded Library in the old version is cloned and made the new default on the new version.
* Settings, other than those tied directly to the Library (Auto-Import settings and whatnot), are NOT migrated automatically. To get those, you have to restore a Library Backup and choose to restore the Settings.

That seems like a reasonable "middle of the road" solution. You can do it, but it only does the "safe" stuff (and necessary, as you'll need your Library) by default, and lets you perform the "less safe" migration yourself. That way, hopefully, you might notice if restoring the settings broke it, when it worked before.

It seems like this time, they might have actually done more than that automatically. But I'm not sure because I've been busy and I only have MC21 installed now in a VM, and not on any of my "real" systems.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

kstuart

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1955
  • Upgraded to MC22 Master using preorder discount
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2015, 07:14:10 pm »

Hmmm... all of my settings, including TV timers, TV tuner profiles. madVR profiles and settings, Smartlists and custom library fields (including those from your "least played" thread), migrated over.

So far, the Zoneswitch rules are the only ones that did not, and I just pasted the old ones and they seem to work fine.

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2015, 07:20:46 pm »

Hmmm... all of my settings, including TV timers, TV tuner profiles.

I wasn't sure about this stuff, but that isn't that surprising. I think that falls into the "required to use it" category a bit.

madVR profiles and settings

I think this is definitely new. And, from your other comment, I assume Zones and Audio Device settings too.  Sounds like, this time, they decided to do everything. That's fine. As I said, that's easier for lots of people. We'll probably see fewer of those "hey, MC21 fixed it for me" posts, though.

So far, the Zoneswitch rules are the only ones that did not, and I just pasted the old ones and they seem to work fine.

Pasting them in allows the already-existing data validation and setting-saving back end to just do its thing. If the underlying mechanism changed, these settings may be translated into very different registry entries from the old version. So that would explain that.

Or, they just forgot them, and they'll be added in some future release.  ?
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

JimH

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 72367
  • Where did I put my teeth?
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2015, 07:34:58 pm »

So far, the Zoneswitch rules are the only ones that did not, and I just pasted the old ones and they seem to work fine.
Matt's looking at that.
Logged

imeric

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1476
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2015, 08:12:29 pm »

Thx Glynor. Very good info.  Can both versions coexist without interfering with one another? (understanding one has the server option enabled and not the other)...
Logged

kstuart

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1955
  • Upgraded to MC22 Master using preorder discount
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2015, 12:26:18 pm »

Thx Glynor. Very good info.  Can both versions coexist without interfering with one another? (understanding one has the server option enabled and not the other)...
Yes, I have 19, 20 and 21 all installed.

The main things to remember:

* All previous versions should have "None" set in Startup options.

* Any batch files and so forth that might have "MC20.exe" explicitly listed must be changed to say "MC21.exe".

imeric

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1476
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2015, 02:20:32 pm »

Excellent thx.  That's how I currently have it setup with both MC20-21.
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: MC20 to MC21 - What user data gets automatically migrated?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2015, 08:47:41 am »

* Any batch files and so forth that might have "MC20.exe" explicitly listed must be changed to say "MC21.exe".

If you have a lot of these, you may want to consider using my MCcl.exe wrapper instead:
http://blog.glynor.com/mccl

To update a whole variety of scripts and Girder GMLs and all sorts of other stuff, I have to run this once:
MCcl.exe --update

Done. No opportunity for typos. No forgetting that script over here.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/
Pages: [1]   Go Up