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[maid]

Would anyone please explain to me the best way to play content through jriver to Onkyo NR929
I have conflicting opinions on bitstreaming and direct sound setup.
My friend uses no bitsteaming direct sound and no other settings surely the sound would not be good.
I am connected using HDMI bitsteaming source chanels and wasapi

[fitbrit]

What speaker configuration are you using?
5.1, 7.1, 9.1 (high), 9.1 (wide), 11.1?

[maid]

its 5.1 and i have it set to source

[fitbrit]

This is what I use:

I use no bitstreaming.

In audio options for DSP:
I use JRSS to 5.1

Under effects:
I use pronounced enhancement under sound field, but that is a matter of choice.
Environment= none

On the Onkyo: Use "Direct" as the default for all formats for the input your PC is connected to it.


What this does:

All sound sources played in MC will be mixed to 5.1 and sent to the Onkyo. The Onkyo does nothing to them, except maybe apply the room correction which you should have run with the Audessey microphone that came with it.

[maid]

Thank for that,

To clarify RO standard WASAPI
On the Onkyo: Use "Direct" as the default for all formats for the input your PC is connected to it. where is this ?
Does the audessey not set up the equaliser ? do you use the equaliser in jriver ?

[fitbrit]

Audessey sets crossover frequencies and volume levels on the speakers. That way, no speaker gets sent bass that is too much for it to handle - the lower frequencies get sent to the subwoofer. Also, by using the mic from your listening position it sets the volume levels - so that the surround speakers aren't overpowering, for example.

To set the DSP to Direct on the Onkyo, there are two ways. Go to the setup menu and take a look, or better yet read the Onkyo's manual.
To do it manually, while a movie is playing, hit the Movie button - probably the first of four white buttons that go from left to right across the remote, near the bottom third of the remote. Press it repeatedly until DIRECT comes up on the OSD and/or Onkyo display.
By setting it to DIRECT from within the Onkyo's setup menu, you won't have to do this every time.

[maid]

do you use the equaliser in jriver ?

[ferday]

do you use the equaliser in jriver ?

Yes.  You can't room correct without EQ.  One should really calibrate with frequency sweeps and a good meter but even EQ'ng by ear is often better than none.

[maid]

but is that not using two equalizers ?

[maid]

Tried This is what I use:

I use no bitstreaming.

In audio options for DSP:
I use JRSS to 5.1

Under effects:
I use pronounced enhancement under sound field, but that is a matter of choice.
Environment= none

On the Onkyo: Use "Direct" as the default for all formats for the input your PC is connected to it.

now I am getting this message
playback could not be started using the formay 48kHz 24bit 6ch this format would work with the 48kHz 24 bit 2 ch would you like to have your dsp studio < output foremat settings changed automatically

My HTPC is connected to Onkyo with HDMI

[fitbrit]

In sound devices under windows, make sure the Onkyo is selected and that you have configured speakers to 5.1.
In MC make sure the Onkyo is the audio device.
If that doesn't change anything, reinstall the latest nvidia drivers for your card.
Restart the PC. Check the first two steps again above.

This should work.

[maid]

with this graphics card gt9500 (the other one i had blew up)

The Onkyo does not show up under audio devices in MC never has, I think the card is video only the spidf comes from the MB to the HDMI

I have set back to bitstream and it plays again

[fitbrit]

Ah I see. That clears up everything then. Turn on bitstreaming. You should replace the video card if you want to get the best out of your receiver.

[maid]

looking at a gtx750
not sure about specs tho

[fitbrit]

I could send you another gtx460 for just the shipping cost to Aus; I have a spare one that I intended to sell.

[maid]

that would have been lovely but I just bought one off Ebay. thanks

[maid]

I could send you another gtx460 for just the shipping cost to Aus; I have a spare one that I intended to sell.

what model Onkyo do you have? I dont understand why you would not use bitstreaming and the Onkyo for sound instead of using direct are you not losing all the Onkyo effects like playing dts true hd thx etc ?

[fitbrit]

what model Onkyo do you have? I dont understand why you would not use bitstreaming and the Onkyo for sound instead of using direct are you not losing all the Onkyo effects like playing dts true hd thx etc ?

I have the higher end 5010 and 3010 models and also one 717.

When you use bitstreaming, the Onkyo decodes the audio, like you said. And then it sends the various sounds to the 5.1 speakers.
When you don't use bitstreaming in MC, the LAV filters decode the audio, and via HDMI send the direct sounds to your Onkyo. The Onkyo receives the decoded audio and sends the correct signals to the 5.1 speakers. It should sound the same, quality wise. However, when you use JRSS in MC, it produces better surround effects than the standard ones provided by Onkyo or most other receiver manufacturers. This is in my opinion, and those of many others in these forums. What JRSS can do is to take a stereo signal and upmix it to 5.1, creating a fake surround effect, which is really good. The Onkyo can do this too, but the Dolby and DTS algorithms it uses are not as good as MC's JRSS - again, in my opinion. JRSS can also downmix audio from 6.1. and 7.1 sources to 5.1 too. So can the receiver, but again, I think JRSS is better.
In order to not have the Onkyo process the decoded signal coming from JRSS a second time, I recommend you put it into DIRECT mode. When you do that, the Onkyo accepts the signal from MC as-is and doesn't mess with it.

Ignore this bit if it is confusing:
Your receiver is actually capable of a 11.1 speaker configuration (with an extra, optional stereo amplifier). JRSS only processes up to 7.1. Thus, if you have more than 7.1 speakers, I would have recommended a different mode to set the Onkyo into. In that case, you would have used additional Audessey, DTS or Dolby processing to take the 7.1 signal from MC and up mix it to additional channels like a 9.1 or 11.1 configuration. That is what I do because two of my rooms are 11.1.

Another advantage of NOT bitstreaming is that you can then use MC's video clock that keeps the audio and video in sync and avoids stuttering/judder.

[maid]

Hi Fitbrit and thank you for the explanation this is very helpful to me.
would you recommend having two zones one for movies and one for music as hubby even though slighly deaf in one ear is a bit fussy with his music and likes tinkering with the equalizer. I myself want to sit and watch a movie with good sound clear voices and no tinkering whilst watching. a screen dump of your settings would set us on the right path to start

[fitbrit]

I'll have to do this next week, as work is a real killer until next Monday.
I will have to create a new zone or two to simulate your new system.

In general though, if you're using JRSS to 5.1 on the PC and Direct on the Onkyo, it'll be pretty great for music and movies.

[maid]

Just wanted to see the equalizer wave so we have somewhere to start cheers again

[fitbrit]

Just wanted to see the equalizer wave so we have somewhere to start cheers again

I don't play with that at all. In any case, a lot of how effective it is will depend on the acoustics of your room. Start with it disabled/flat. Use that as a starting point.

[CountryBumkin]

what model Onkyo do you have? I dont understand why you would not use bitstreaming and the Onkyo for sound instead of using direct are you not losing all the Onkyo effects like playing dts true hd thx etc ?

I have an Onkyo AVR too, but older/cheaper model (TX-SR705). However the setup is similar.

You would go into the Onkyo setup to the "Listening Modes" section, then you scroll through the various selections and assign mode
Direct" for each mode "preset". This will then take the sound as it comes from JRiver program and not add any processing to it. Since the JRiver program is doing the processing itself you don't need any additional processing done in the Onkyo.
And as fitbrit mentioned you could just Bitstream from JRiver but then you lose the JRiver processing power (especially the VideoClock feature)

Attached is a screen shot of your manual showing this setup.

[fitbrit]

I have an Onkyo AVR too, but older/cheaper model (TX-SR705). However the setup is similar.

You would go into the Onkyo setup to the "Listening Modes" section, then you scroll through the various selections and assign mode
Direct" for each mode "preset". This will then take the sound as it comes from JRiver program and not add any processing to it. Since the JRiver program is doing the processing itself you don't need any additional processing done in the Onkyo.
And as fitbrit mentioned you could just Bitstream from JRiver but then you lose the JRiver processing power (especially the VideoClock feature)

Attached is a screen shot of your manual showing this setup.

Thanks, CB. I hope this will help maid.

Maid, if you do not set it up within the Onkyo menu like CB showed, you'll have to use the remote control to toggle to Direct every time.

[maid]

Got the new gtx750 installed and changed all the settings to what you guys advised but lip sync is out and the movies are very jumpy.we have tried several different settings but no change. Could it be a buffer problem.? If so where or what to change

[CountryBumkin]

If the lip sync is consistently off by the same amount, you can adjust for this at Tools>Options>Video>Advanced. There is an adjustment for video/movies played at 24Hz and a separate adjustment for those played at 50, 60, and 120Hz.

Regarding jumpy playback, is this the same problem you posted about a week or two ago? So I guess this problem never got resolved.

I think you were having problems with videos that were 25 Hz (fps). Is this still the case - and if yes, is this the only type of video that plays back jumpy? Do you have 24fps, and 30/60fps to try too?

[maid]

settings are windows sound TXNR929 5.1 JRiver TXNR929 wasapi dsp 5.1 jrss no bitstreaming startup volume -1(not sure what that means) video clock enabled display changing on.

Tested mp4 25 FPS will not switch if set to 50hz or 25 if I change the FPS in JRiver to 23.98 they work.
jumpy video: think it may have been a bad download but need more testing.
sound on some downloads are very quiet jriver sound disabled as we use onkyo sound control.

[fitbrit]

settings are windows sound TXNR929 5.1 JRiver TXNR929 wasapi dsp 5.1 jrss no bitstreaming startup volume -1(not sure what that means) video clock enabled display changing on.

Tested mp4 25 FPS will not switch if set to 50hz or 25 if I change the FPS in JRiver to 23.98 they work.
jumpy video: think it may have been a bad download but need more testing.
sound on some downloads are very quiet jriver sound disabled as we use onkyo sound control.

1) Jumpy video: You absolutely MUST test other videos. The way you worded it sounded like this is a general case problem. It may not be.
2) You can analyse the audio on the videos and make it so that MC plays most videos with the same baseline volume.
3) Did you look at whether the Onkyo's own lip sync settings are set to zero. If they are not, you might see lip sync issues.
4) Finally, is that 25 fps mp4 really 25 fps? Does it fail to play when set to 50Hz? Isn't your desktop at 50 Hz, and if so, there may not need to be a change if refresh rate when playing 25 fps material.

[fitbrit]

Regarding jumpy playback, is this the same problem you posted about a week or two ago? So I guess this problem never got resolved.

I advised to not mess with the system until the new video card was installed.

[maid]

Got the new gtx750 installed and changed all the settings to what you guys advised but lip sync is out and the movies are very jumpy.we have tried several different settings but no change. Could it be a buffer problem.? If so where or what to change posted last night

3) Did you look at whether the Onkyo's own lip sync settings are set to zero. If they are not, you might see lip sync issues. where will I find this setting?
4) Finally, is that 25 fps mp4 really 25 fps? Does it fail to play when set to 50Hz? Isn't your desktop at 50 Hz, and if so, there may not need to be a change if refresh rate when playing 25 fps material desktop 60hz goes funny when trying 50hz video fails when set at 50 or 25

[fitbrit]

I just saw that you kind of tried to respond to questions 3 and 4. Please separate your answers from the question so that this is clear. My brain also responds better to stuff that is written with punctuation, so I can understand when one sentence/idea finishes and another starts.

As for the Onkyo and lip sync.... I don't have the manual in front of me. But you might, and you also have the remote control. Press the menus, explore, don't change anything if you are afraid or don't know what it is. But PLEASE try to help yourself a little too. It'll make the rest of us want to keep assisting you.

[fitbrit]

desktop 60hz goes funny when trying 50hz video fails when set at 50 or 25

Are we supposed to know what that means? Please try to use other words to describe the problem. Imagine you are another user on the forum and are reading what you have just written, without access to mind-reading capabilities. If you think we might not understand, please use your words to explain a little more specifically.

Take a screenshot of your settings for automatic refresh rate change and put it here. Look up how to take a screenshot on Google if needed.

[CountryBumkin]

3) Did you look at whether the Onkyo's own lip sync settings are set to zero. If they are not, you might see lip sync issues. where will I find this setting?

Wow your NR929 has a lot of settings! (that could be a blessing or a curse).

See page 79 of the manual http://www.eu.onkyo.com/downloads/2/5/1/7/3/Manual_TX-NR929_En.pdf (download and save a copy to you computer for quick access).

It says (under Hardware Settings):

■A/V Sync
􀁠0msec to 800msec in 5 msec steps
When using progressive scanning on your Blu-ray
Disc/DVD player, you may find that the picture and
sound are out of sync. With this setting, you can
correct this by delaying the audio signals.
Press ENTER to view the TV picture while setting the
delay when the video source is output to HDMI OUT
MAIN.
To return to the previous screen, press RETURN.
The range of values you can adjust will depend on
whether your TV or display supports HDMI Lip Sync
and if the “Lip Sync” setting is set to “On” or not
(➔ page 79).

then, see

 ■Lip Sync
􀁠Off
􀁠On
This function allows the AV receiver to automatically
correct any delay between the video and the audio,
based on the data from the connected monitor.
Note
• This function works only if your HDMI-compatible TV
supports HDMI Lip Sync.

I see your Onkyo also has a film mode setting (page 74). I don't know if this will help or not, but I would set it to AUTO.

■Film Mode*2*4
􀁠Video:
“Film Mode” detection is not applied and the
input signal is handled as a video source.
􀁠Auto:
Detects whether the input signal is a video or a
movie. If it is a movie, the appropriate
conversion is applied.

The AV receiver will adjust to the picture source,
automatically converting it to the appropriate
progressive signal and reproducing the natural quality
of the original picture.

4) Finally, is that 25 fps mp4 really 25 fps? Does it fail to play when set to 50Hz? Isn't your desktop at 50 Hz, and if so, there may not need to be a change if refresh rate when playing 25 fps material desktop 60hz goes funny when trying 50hz video fails when set at 50 or 25

If you look at the FPS tag in JRiver MC and it is set as "25"  but you find that the movie plays much better when the fps is set to "24", I would then change the FPS tag in JRiver to the setting where it plays best. It is entirely possible that the file has the wrong tag from wherever it came from - or maybe JRiver is messing up the fps tag data when it is imported into your library. The safest way to know how your Onkyo and TV are working is to play a Blu-ray movie from a stand-alone BD player. Then if it plays nice and smooth you will know that the TV and Onkyo are setup correctly (and can turn your attention to your "ripped" movies and/or the MC settings.

[fitbrit]

Just so that there is no confusion and no chance of screwing things up further:

If the Onkyo's lip sync is set to anything other than 0, turn it to 0.
If it is currently 0, do not mess with it.

[maid]

Yes it does have a lot of settings.
I do have the manual but found it difficult to understand, I tried to look all over the web to set what should be switched on or off, I think I need a manual for dummies.
Is it normal that the Onkyo shows up as the TV Monitor ? should it not show the TV is nvidia or is there a frame rate setting in the Onkyo ?

Wow your NR929 has a lot of settings! (that could be a blessing or a curse).

See page 79 of the manual http://www.eu.onkyo.com/downloads/2/5/1/7/3/Manual_TX-NR929_En.pdf (download and save a copy to you computer for quick access).

It says (under Hardware Settings):

■A/V Sync
􀁠0msec to 800msec in 5 msec steps
When using progressive scanning on your Blu-ray
Disc/DVD player, you may find that the picture and
sound are out of sync. With this setting, you can
correct this by delaying the audio signals.
Press ENTER to view the TV picture while setting the
delay when the video source is output to HDMI OUT
MAIN.
To return to the previous screen, press RETURN.
The range of values you can adjust will depend on
whether your TV or display supports HDMI Lip Sync
and if the “Lip Sync” setting is set to “On” or not
(➔ page 79).

then, see

 ■Lip Sync
􀁠Off
􀁠On
This function allows the AV receiver to automatically
correct any delay between the video and the audio,
based on the data from the connected monitor.
Note
• This function works only if your HDMI-compatible TV
supports HDMI Lip Sync.

I see your Onkyo also has a film mode setting (page 74). I don't know if this will help or not, but I would set it to AUTO.

■Film Mode*2*4
􀁠Video:
“Film Mode” detection is not applied and the
input signal is handled as a video source.
􀁠Auto:
Detects whether the input signal is a video or a
movie. If it is a movie, the appropriate
conversion is applied.

The AV receiver will adjust to the picture source,
automatically converting it to the appropriate
progressive signal and reproducing the natural quality
of the original picture.

If you look at the FPS tag in JRiver MC and it is set as "25"  but you find that the movie plays much better when the fps is set to "24", I would then change the FPS tag in JRiver to the setting where it plays best. It is entirely possible that the file has the wrong tag from wherever it came from - or maybe JRiver is messing up the fps tag data when it is imported into your library. The safest way to know how your Onkyo and TV are working is to play a Blu-ray movie from a stand-alone BD player. Then if it plays nice and smooth you will know that the TV and Onkyo are setup correctly (and can turn your attention to your "ripped" movies and/or the MC settings.

[CountryBumkin]

Yes it does have a lot of settings.
I do have the manual but found it difficult to understand, I tried to look all over the web to set what should be switched on or off, I think I need a manual for dummies.
Is it normal that the Onkyo shows up as the TV Monitor ? should it not show the TV is nvidia or is there a frame rate setting in the Onkyo ?

Yes, it is normal for the Onkyo to show as the "monitor" in your in the NVidia control panel because the computer is connected to it directly (meaning the computer's HDMI cable connects first to the Onkyo not the TV, then the Onkyo's output/HDMI cable connects to the TV).

There is no frame rate setting in the Onkyo just the "Film Mode" setting - which should be on Auto.

[maid]

Tried all the suggestions but still having 25fps issues.
Its not just one or two it is all of them.
Tried setting auto display Pal to change to 24fps still not working
changed all 25fps to 24 and now switching seems to be working
If one changes from RO standard and HQ will the codecs get confused ? should we delete these and let JRiver re download them ?

[JimH]

You can just switch the setting from RO Std to HQ or back.  MC will do what it needs to do.