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[amsco15]

I am a long time JRiver user and PS Audio Bridge I owner.  I’ve had great success with the PS Audio Bridge I over several years.  The only problem, Bridge I did not support gapless.  PS Audio released Bridge II which I recently purchased.  

I’m using JRiver 21 on an older Dell laptop running Win 10 and use JRemote for a controller.  My laptop and Bridge II are hardwired (Cat 5 cable) to a 100mhz switch with everything controlled by an Apple Extreme Router.  All redbook and 24/96 files are FLAC.

Here’s the problem, Bridge II skips when change resolution.  I’ve been working with Dennis at PS Audio to resolve this problem.  It turns out, I’m in the minority of their users experiencing this issue.  All on the PS Audio forum using JRiver/JRemote report success: even with changing file resolutions.  Lots of evidence points to this being a JRiver problem but I don’t know: maybe.  I have completed the following experiments:

   Redbook-dsf-dsf-redbook-redbook.  The results were:

   Played 1st redbook fine-played 10 seconds of the 1st dsf then skipped to next song-played all songs after that normally.

   I then set up a second test (all files saved on my laptop's hard drive):

   Redbook-24/96-24/96-redbook-redbook.  The results were:

   Played 1st redbook fine-played 10 seconds of the 1st dsf then skipped to next song-played 2nd dsf fine-played 10 seconds of the second redbook then skipped-played 3rd redbook fine

I have no idea why the two tests were different but basically the above scenario is what happens, to one extent or another, all the time.  I can consistently get similar results.   Two last pieces of information.  First, I did pass along my settings (File>Library>Backup Library) to Dennis at PS Audio.  Dennis was not able to replicate my results.  Second, I still have JRiver 20 loaded on my machine and tried 20 with the exact same results.

Any ideas?  Thanks, Dale

Edit: Multi-source (DSF, redbook, 24/96, etc.) plays fine on the laptop computer speakers.  If it is a JRiver problem, it's in the Media Network DLNA portion.

[AndrewFG]

Two things.

A. Can you please download the Dmr analyzer app from my sig and post the test log file?
B. What media formats (wav, flac, etc.) are you pushing?

[JimH]

If you're playing to the device and it is a DLNA Renderer, please read some of AndrewFG's recent posts.  He's the expert on DLNA and he wrote a nice utility for testing.

[JimH]

I can see that he's also faster than I am.  Thanks, Andrew.

[amsco15]

Two things.

A. Can you please download the Dmr analyzer app from my sig and post the test log file?
B. What media formats (wav, flac, etc.) are you pushing?

A. Will do so tonight!  Thanks.
B. All files are in FLAC format (with the exception of the DSF files of course).

[amsco15]

Was anxious to download the DLNA analysis software but failed.  Received the following message:

HTTP Version Not Supported

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, support@hoststar.ch and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

Apache Server at www.whitebear.ch Port 80

[AndrewFG]

Yes I see the same error. Sorry for that. I will have a word with my hosting service, and try to get it fixed...

[amsco15]

I hope this is what you were looking for.  Thanks so much for your help!!!  I'm getting pretty frustrated with the device.  The report says gapless play isn't available; however, it is and it does work.

DMR Report (by Whitebear) for CDMCM-210
=======================================

Device Description Url=http://192.168.1.104:43314/description.xml
Description=This model is a connected audio module which supports the UPnP/DLNA standard
Friendly Name=BridgeII
Manufacturer Name=ConversDigital Co.,Ltd
Manufacturer Url=http://www.conversdigital.com
Model Name=CDMCM-210
Model Number=CDMCM-210-001
Model Url=http://www.conversdigital.com
Serial Number=CDM210131201001
UPnP Device Type=urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaRenderer:1
UPnP Media Renderer version=1
Unique Device Name=uuid:22839E78-662A-1224-8834-985E1B0030A5
X_DLNADOC Element=DMR-1.50
Service Url for RenderingControl=http://192.168.1.104:43314/service/RenderingControl1.xml
Service Url for ConnectionManager=http://192.168.1.104:43314/service/ConnectionManager1.xml
Service Url for AVTransport=http://192.168.1.104:43314/service/AVTransport1.xml
AVT:SetNextAVTransportURI (gapless play)=NOT Supported
AVT:SyncPlay (synchronous play)=Feature not available on this DMR version
RC:GetVolume action=Supported
RC:SetVolume action=Supported
HTTP User Agent (client)=Lavf54.29.104
Play test file result=Play success => Start Ok / Stop Ok / Subscribe error


Media Center DLNA Server Advanced Settings
==========================================

DLNA=Checked
DLNAExtra=Checked
Enable bitrate Field=Checked
Filter international characters=no
Include session Id=no
Playstation 3 compatible=no
Present Caption Resources=Checked
Present Small Artwork=no
Present Subtitle Resources=Checked
Skip child count=no
Use flat URLs=no
Use full URLs instead of relative URLs=no
WMC compatible=no
MPEG video mimetvpe override=tbd / per track setting
Video MimeType Override=tbd / per track setting
Video DLNA Override=tbd / per track setting


Declared Supported Audio, Image & Video Formats
===============================================

http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMABASE
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAFULL
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAPRO
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMALSL
http-get:*:audio/x-sony-oma:DLNA.ORG_PN=ATRAC3plus
http-get:*:audio/aiff:*
http-get:*:audio/wav:*
http-get:*:audio/flac:*
http-get:*:audio/aac:*
http-get:*:audio/m4a:*
http-get:*:audio/ac3:*


Evaluated Supported Audio Formats
=================================

audio/mpeg   MP3   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/vnd.dlna.adts   AAC_ADTS   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/x-ms-wma   WMABASE   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/x-ms-wma   WMAFULL   Dlna   *   2   *   No
audio/x-ms-wma   WMAPRO   Dlna   *   *   *   No
audio/x-ms-wma   WMALSL   Dlna   *   2   16   Yes
audio/x-sony-oma   ATRAC3plus   Dlna   *   *   *   No
audio/aiff   AIFF   Fuzzy   *   *   *   Yes
audio/wav   WAV   Fuzzy   *   *   *   Yes
audio/flac   FLAC   Fuzzy   *   *   *   Yes
audio/m4a   AAC_ISO   Fuzzy   *   2   *   No
audio/aac      Undefined            
audio/ac3      Undefined            

[amsco15]

AndrewFG,

Your program is great!! Thanks so much.  Based upon the results from your app, I tried turning Syncplay off and it fixed everything.  I played 58 songs tonight, of varying resolutions and types (DSF, FLAC, 24/96, 24/192), without a single skipp!!  Problem is fixed!!  

Thanks, Dale

[AndrewFG]

I hope this is what you were looking for.  Thanks so much for your help!!!  I'm getting pretty frustrated with the device.  The report says gapless play isn't available; however, it is and it does work.

DMR Report (by Whitebear) for CDMCM-210
=======================================

Device Description Url=http://192.168.1.104:43314/description.xml
Description=This model is a connected audio module which supports the UPnP/DLNA standard
Friendly Name=BridgeII
Manufacturer Name=ConversDigital Co.,Ltd
Manufacturer Url=http://www.conversdigital.com
Model Name=CDMCM-210
Model Number=CDMCM-210-001
Model Url=http://www.conversdigital.com
..
HTTP User Agent (client)=Lavf54.29.104

Thanks for posting the report. However I am very confused by it, since in your OP you spoke of a PS Audio Bridge whereas your renderer report is all about something from Converse Digital. (??)

Anyway looking at the report there are two things to note below

AVT:SetNextAVTransportURI (gapless play)=NOT Supported
..
Play test file result=Play success => Start Ok / Stop Ok / Subscribe error

These mean that in MC "DLNA Controller Options" you need to 1) check "Disable SetNext Support" and also 2) check "Ignore Transport Events"

[JimH]

It looks like Converse Digital provides hardware to OEM's.

http://conversdigital.com/kor/product/product01.php

[JimH]

I accidentally removed a reply he made while I was typing mine.  I'm sorry.  He said that he had tried something that didn't work with JRemote, but that he would try the "Ignore Transport Events" setting again.

[amsco15]

JimH, NP.  I was confused about where my reply went.  Yes, the device is a new Bridge II and Converse Digital is the OEM to PS Audio. 

I originally had both "Disable SetNext Support" and "Ignore Transport Events" selected but had a problem with JRemote.  It's possible it was a coincidence.  I will try again since just selecting "Disable SetNext Support" did not fix my song skipping issue. 

Thanks so much for your help!!!

[amsco15]

Thanks to the support I have received here, I have solved all my JRiver/Bridge II problems (from the PS Audio forum, clearly others experienced similar issues) except one.  It remains a fairly large annoyance.  JRiver on occasion, just doesn't want to find Bridge II.  Refresh Dynamic Entries doesn't always work.  Rebooting the PS Audio Direct Stream (DS) doesn't work, resetting the bridge (from the DS control panel) doesn't work….

I have Bridge II on a static IP.  Granted, my set-up is a little complex and Bridge II sits behind an Airport Express and a small 5 port switch; however, once it's discovered, all operations are very, very stable.  The same setup worked great for Bridge I.  The only trick I can employ to guarantee discovery is to set the Bridge II back to DHCP, wait until I get a green internet connection, then go back to a static IP (I always select the same IP).  Bridge II is then instantly discovered by JRiver.  Sorry but this is a PITA.  I have my server and DS on different floors of the house.  This sometimes happened with Bridge I.  When it did, I entered the Bridge I's IP into my browser and reset the UPnP server: JRiver immediately discovered Bridge I on every occasion.  

Any ideas?

[JimH]

If this were my problem, I would try eliminating the Airport Express and the switch by plugging the PC and DAC into the same device, just to see what happened.  It could be just your network configuration that is causing the problem.

[AndrewFG]

I have Bridge II on a static IP.  Granted, my set-up is a little complex and Bridge II sits behind an Airport Express and a small 5 port switch; however, once it's discovered, all operations are very, very stable.  The same setup worked great for Bridge I.  The only trick I can employ to guarantee discovery is to set the Bridge II back to DHCP, wait until I get a green internet connection, then go back to a static IP (I always select the same IP).  Bridge II is then instantly discovered by JRiver.  Sorry but this is a PITA.  I have my server and DS on different floors of the house.  This sometimes happened with Bridge I.  When it did, I entered the Bridge I's IP into my browser and reset the UPnP server: JRiver immediately discovered Bridge I on every occasion.  

Any ideas?

There are two parts to UPnP discovery. Part a) is where the device broadcasts its presence. And part b) is where the Control Point searches for the device. In part a) the device sends a UDP Multicast message announcing it presence. In part b) the control point sends a UDP Multicast message searching for devices, and then the device sends a UDP monocast announcing it presence. So in other words there are three possible combinations of message types, sources and destinations. In your case apparently (at least) one of these message types is not being routed properly..

[amsco15]

Thanks!  I assume when I select "Refresh Dynamic Entries" I initiate the first part of b: send UDP multicast.  That would imply the device never receives the UDP multicast or does receive it and never sends the UDP monocast signal.  What I can do to force this process is the question.

I can run a dedicated Cat 5 from the Bridge II to my Airport Extreme router (bypassing the Express/switch). It's not a huge project but not trivial.  I'm skeptical because of my initial experience, before I had solved other issues with the device, but may be worth a try.

[amsco15]

I'm going to show my ignorance here, but is there a way to port map (in the router - Airport Extreme) these UDP signals between the server and renderer.  Forcing a direct communication path?  Am I barking up the wrong tree?  I assume that port mapping would be based upon the IP addresses of the server and renderer (I have each assigned a static IP).

[JimH]

I can run a dedicated Cat 5 from the Bridge II to my Airport Extreme router (bypassing the Express/switch). It's not a huge project but not trivial.  I'm skeptical because of my initial experience, before I had solved other issues with the device, but may be worth a try.

For testing purposes, either move the devices or buy a long cable.

[AndrewFG]

I'm going to show my ignorance here, but is there a way to port map (in the router - Airport Extreme) these UDP signals between the server and renderer.  Forcing a direct communication path?  Am I barking up the wrong tree?  I assume that port mapping would be based upon the IP addresses of the server and renderer (I have each assigned a static IP).

Forget about port mapping, which is for TCP routing. You have to setup UDP Multicast pass through on all routers and switches. UPNP uses a special dedicated Multicast Group IP address (can't remember the number just off hand) and port (1900) which you have to enable. On non Apple routers this would be available by setting UPNP routing on. But as Apple does not admit that UPNP exists you probably have to set it up by hand on Apple routers. Furthermore UPNP multicast routing uses a thing called hop count (or time to live TTL) which decrements every time the telegram passes through another router or switch. When TTL has decremented to zero the telegram is not routed further (this is to prevent multicasts going "global"). So if you have a lot of boxes on your LAN, even if the routing is enabled, the multicast telegrams might exceed the TTL limit...

[amsco15]

Thanks so much for your help!!  I have 1-Airport Extreme in the basement, 1-Airport Express on the first floor (Renderer - Bridge II connected), & 1-Airport Express on the second floor (JRiver Server connected).  Both Expresses are hard wired using Cat 5e cable directly to the Airport Extreme.  That gives me one WiFi device per floor of the house.  Only the Extreme provides DNS.   Can you point me to instructions helping with establishing a UDP Muticast pass through on the Extreme and Express routers? 

Please note that JRiver does eventually discover the Bridge II; however, it's just not reliable enough.

[JimH]

Thanks so much for your help!!  I have 1-Airport Extreme in the basement, 1-Airport Express on the first floor (Renderer - Bridge II connected), & 1-Airport Express on the second floor (JRiver Server connected).  Both Expresses are hard wired using Cat 5e cable directly to the Airport Extreme.  That gives me one WiFi device per floor of the house.  Only the Extreme provides DNS.   Can you point me to instructions helping with establishing a UDP Muticast pass through on the Extreme and Express routers? 

These kinds of questions should probably be asked on the Apple forums.

You normally shouldn't need to do this, but I guess Apple is different.

Many routers have an option for UPnP, but I'm not sure how often that's needed.

Connecting your devices without all the routers in between would tell you a lot.

[amsco15]

Forget about port mapping, which is for TCP routing. You have to setup UDP Multicast pass through on all routers and switches. UPNP uses a special dedicated Multicast Group IP address (can't remember the number just off hand) and port (1900) which you have to enable. On non Apple routers this would be available by setting UPNP routing on. But as Apple does not admit that UPNP exists you probably have to set it up by hand on Apple routers. Furthermore UPNP multicast routing uses a thing called hop count (or time to live TTL) which decrements every time the telegram passes through another router or switch. When TTL has decremented to zero the telegram is not routed further (this is to prevent multicasts going "global"). So if you have a lot of boxes on your LAN, even if the routing is enabled, the multicast telegrams might exceed the TTL limit...

AndrewFG,

Sorry to belabor this point; however, I continue to have trouble with JRiver discovering my renderer (PS Audio Bridge II).  Upon any reboot of my computer, I usually have to load and unload JRiver two to three times before it acknowledges the Bridge II (eventually JRiver does discover the Bridge II).  I want to experiment with port forwarding on the Airport Extreme but am uncertain how to proceed.  I understand port forwarding is used typically to allow external (to my internal network) access to a device.  I really only want devices on my internal network to acknowledge each other through UPnP .  I think I've narrowed down the choices on the Airport Extreme as follows:

Public UDP Port(s): Leave Blank
Public TCP Port(s): Leave Blank
Private IP Address: 239.255.255.250
Private UDP Port(s): 1900
Private TCP Port(s): Leave Blank

Thanks!!!