Topic: will this JRiver MediaCenter program allow me to do this.... (Read 10175 times)

mikemcsw · « **on:** February 13, 2014, 11:26:07 am »

if my bluray or avr has network and supports dlna, can i somehow use this program to play music stored on my dlna server (wdmycloud 2tb $150) from it's interface?

I have heard so much controversy about hdmi, usb, that i don't want to deal with any of that....but i want conveniency of playing from my computer.

If this program will allow me to do what i suggest, is there anything wrong with that configuration, to just let the internal dac of the bluray or avr do the processing?

cncb · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2014, 11:41:01 am »

Yes but this would require you running MC on a PC all the time to act as the DLNA server. You would import the files from your wdmycloud (network path) into the MC library and then run the DLNA server in MC.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2014, 02:00:16 pm »

thanks.

when you say import them into the mc library, the files themselves will still reside on the wdmycloud?
will the files be transferred from the wdmycloud to the avr via network, or would the actual bits be transferred from the pc?

my main effort is to eliminate the need for the data to go out the pc over usb or hdmi.
i want the avr to process the digital bits itself.

Also, do i lose anything in this configuration? Why wouldn't this be the IDEAL configuration if i didn't want to use an external dac?

Thanks again.
Also, is there a step-by-step guide somewhere how to use DLNA with jriver?

cncb · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2014, 02:59:58 pm »

Yes, just the file metadata is imported, the files stay on the wdmycloud. The possible disadvantages of using DLNA are unsupported file types in the DLNA player and lack of advanced playback options that you get when using MC for playback (gapless, DSP, etc.).

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DLNA

csimon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:15:54 pm »

Quote from: mikemcsw on February 13, 2014, 11:26:07 am

if my bluray or avr has network and supports dlna, can i somehow use this program to play music stored on my dlna server (wdmycloud 2tb $150) from it's interface?

Yes, but also read this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86858.0 (it has wandered a bit and it took some time to understand the question, but I think it is relevant!)

Basically, MC can act as a DLNA server, in which case you need to import your music into its own library (using the WD device as a simple file server rather than a DLNA server) - as described above - and then send music to a DLNA renderer (your BR player or AV amp). Or you can actually use it as a DLNA controller only, in which case it will connect to your existing DLNA server without having to import your music, and be able to browse it and send music to a DLNA renderer. If using it as a server, there are actually conversion options if your renderer doesn't support particular file types, but you don't get the full range of audio processing options as if you were playing to a HDMI or USB device, and you could also take full advantage of MC's flexible cataloguing, indexing and custom view structure, whereas if you use your WD's DLNA server you are probably limited to simple structures and hierarchies like Album, Artist, Song and Genre.

I'm not convinced that there are any inherent problems with HDMI or USB, in fact I think people might say that HDMI output is actually the most superior, and DLNA itself can have many issues with regard to compatibility between devices.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2014, 01:50:17 pm »

thanks all for the information.

I don't think these options will work. What i want to do is somehow be able to CONTROL the blu ray player from the PC without having to use a remote control.

I like the dac built into the blu-ray player so i want to use the analog out of the blu-ray player.

Is there anyway to do that?

csimon · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2014, 01:53:23 pm »

Can you tell me why you don't think it will work?

mikemcsw · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:08:58 pm »

Quote from: csimon on February 15, 2014, 01:53:23 pm

Can you tell me why you don't think it will work?

ok, so i have my blu-ray where it can see my wdmycloud device, and i played a song successfully through it using the remote control of the blu-ray.

so my question is, how is MC going to control the blu-ray to tell it to start playing the song?
when you click play in the MC gui, i can see it being able to get the bits from the wdmycloud, but what will actually control the blu ray to make it start converting the bits through it's dac and playing the song?

and if it can, and it is that easy, what do i need to do once i download jriver after i import the song?

anyway, i will start downloading MC now....I assume they have a free trial period?

Thanks again.

csimon · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:22:03 pm »

Quote from: mikemcsw on February 15, 2014, 03:08:58 pm

ok, so i have my blu-ray where it can see my wdmycloud device, and i played a song successfully through it using the remote control of the blu-ray.

so my question is, how is MC going to control the blu-ray to tell it to start playing the song?
when you click play in the MC gui, i can see it being able to get the bits from the wdmycloud, but what will actually control the blu ray to make it start converting the bits through it's dac and playing the song?

and if it can, and it is that easy, what do i need to do once i download jriver after i import the song?

You need to read up on DLNA! Have a look through the MC Wiki and Media Network. As long as your BR player or your AV amp is a DLNA renderer then MC will be able to control it. Assuming your device is networked properly it will automatically appear as a "zone" in MC which you can select as a destination (as opposed to playing music locally on your PC) and you can send music to it and control it from MC. It is exactly the same as the so-called Play To facility in Windows, or in the Apple world, Airplay.

Once downloaded you will need to enable Media Network in MC and enable DLNA Controller. If you are using your NAS as a DLNA server then there's nothing else to do except connect to the server from MC (Using Load Library), but if you want to use MC as the server then you need to enable DLNA server and import your media into MC.

Note that there is no guarantee that either your BR player or your amp can behave as a DLNA renderer. They've got DLNA but this might only mean, as you've found out, that you canonly control them from their own UIs and remote controls (that's called a DLNA Player). If they have Renderer functionality then it means they can be controlled from another device. You'll only know once you try!

Quote

anyway, i will start downloading MC now....I assume they have a free trial period?

Yes, there is a 30-day trial period.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:27:40 pm »

Quote from: csimon on February 15, 2014, 03:22:03 pm

You need to read up on DLNA! Have a look through the MC Wiki and Media Network. As long as your BR player or your AV amp is a DLNA renderer then MC will be able to control it. Assuming your device is networked properly it will automatically appear as a "zone" in MC which you can select as a destination (as opposed to playing music locally on your PC) and you can send music to it and control it from MC. It is exactly the same as the so-called Play To facility in Windows, or in the Apple world, Airplay.

Once downloaded you will need to enable Media Network in MC and enable DLNA Controller. If you are using your NAS as a DLNA server then there's nothing else to do except connect to the server from MC (Using Load Library), but if you want to use MC as the server then you need to enable DLNA server and import your media into MC.

Note that there is no guarantee that either your BR player or your amp can behave as a DLNA renderer. They've got DLNA but this might only mean, as you've found out, that you canonly control them from their own UIs and remote controls (that's called a DLNA Player). If they have Renderer functionality then it means they can be controlled from another device. You'll only know once you try!

Yes, there is a 30-day trial period.

YOU>> As long as your BR player or your AV amp is a DLNA renderer then MC will be able to control it....

COOL, thats what i was hoping to hear....so the next question is, is my BR a DLNA renderer? (grin)....
it's a BDP-S790 (sony's flagship without going into the es series).

mikemcsw · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:29:03 pm »

also, if it is not...is there an AVR you recommend, as i am in the market for one....willing to spend up to $1K

csimon · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:29:15 pm »

I wouldn't know off-hand, you can just try it or look through the manual to see if it mentions it (they rarely do unfortunately...), or try Googling.

csimon · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:31:03 pm »

Quote from: mikemcsw on February 15, 2014, 03:29:03 pm

also, if it is not...is there an AVR you recommend, as i am in the market for one....willing to spend up to $1K

Do you not have an AV amp at the moment? (I thought you did, because of your first post).

I can't really recommend one but to be honest I would be very surprised if any DLNA-enabled amp these days did not behave as a renderer, but BR players and TVs can be hit and miss.

csimon · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:32:45 pm »

You could have a look at http://www.dlna.org/consumer-home/look-for-dlna/product-search to see if you can find your model and if it's listed as a "Play To" Receiver.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:35:12 pm »

ok, the bluray is a renderer...so where would i see it under zones? i dont see zones along the left pane?
or if you dont want me to bug you for step by step instructions..maybe there is a link you can share?

mikemcsw · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:38:13 pm »

Quote from: csimon on February 15, 2014, 03:31:03 pm

Do you not have an AV amp at the moment? (I thought you did, because of your first post).

I can't really recommend one but to be honest I would be very surprised if any DLNA-enabled amp these days did not behave as a renderer, but BR players and TVs can be hit and miss.

i have an older marantz av amp, but it is not a network one.

Before i get too deep into this, this is probably the best audio quality i can get (e.g. dlna) without using an external dac, right? I tried a dragonfly, and it sounds better than the sound card direct out, but definetely no where near the quality of the blu-ray playing the wav files.

csimon · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:40:31 pm »

Have you enabled Media Network and DLNA Controller? http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Network

The zones appear automatically under the Playing Now list.

Give it a couple of minutes, or try restarting the BR.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:40:54 pm »

Quote from: csimon on February 15, 2014, 03:32:45 pm

You could have a look at http://www.dlna.org/consumer-home/look-for-dlna/product-search to see if you can find your model and if it's listed as a "Play To" Receiver.

yes, the bdp-s790 is on that list.

csimon · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:43:43 pm »

Quote from: mikemcsw on February 15, 2014, 03:38:13 pm

Before i get too deep into this, this is probably the best audio quality i can get (e.g. dlna) without using an external dac, right? I tried a dragonfly, and it sounds better than the sound card direct out, but definetely no where near the quality of the blu-ray playing the wav files.

Audio quality is very very subjective and equipment-dependant. DLNA is only better than an internal sound card or HDMI output if your DLNA renderer (BR player in your case) has a better DAC than your internal sound card or AV amp. If you have a really high-end sound card then it may well be better than your BR player.

Basically DLNA is only a digital transport mechanism, as is HDMI and USB, and PCI-e. It's probably the quality of the digital-to-analogue conversion, together with the quality of the source files, that matters most and that can occur in one of several places.

For example, I have WDTV Live media streamer, whih is a DLNA renderer, but I don't think its analogue output sounds as good as my direct sound card output. Therefore in that particular case, DLNA is not better than onboard sound. But if I take its digital SPDIF output into my AV Amp, that makes it sound a lot better.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:51:05 pm »

Quote from: csimon on February 15, 2014, 03:43:43 pm

Audio quality is very very subjective and equipment-dependant. DLNA is only better than an internal sound card or HDMI output if your DLNA renderer (BR player in your case) has a better DAC than your internal sound card or AV amp. If you have a really high-end sound card then it may well be better than your BR player.

Ok thanks...all i know is that if i play Krallsong.wav from my pc sound out to dragonfly to analog on my marantz, it sounds ok (sounds much better with dragonfly than without), but if i burn the same krallsong.wav on a cd and play it from my sony bdp-s790 it sounds 10 TIMES better! I am not sure if it was the sound card, the pc, the cable or what, but there is not even a comparison as to how it sounds playing direct from my blu-ray player. The same wav file sounds great playing over ethernet from the wd mycloud to the sony too. So if i can get MC to play to my bluray player than that would be optimal. I will try hdmi also though. Thanks again for all the help...i am going to see if i can find zones now.

csimon · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:56:44 pm »

Quote from: mikemcsw on February 15, 2014, 03:51:05 pm

Ok thanks...all i know is that if i play Krallsong.wav from my pc sound out to dragonfly to analog on my marantz, it sounds ok (sounds much better with dragonfly than without), but if i burn the same krallsong.wav on a cd and play it from my sony bdp-s790 it sounds 10 TIMES better! I am not sure if it was the sound card, the pc, the cable or what, but there is not even a comparison as to how it sounds playing direct from my blu-ray player. The same wav file sounds great playing over ethernet from the wd mycloud to the sony too. So if i can get MC to play to my bluray player than that would be optimal. I will try hdmi also though. Thanks again for all the help...i am going to see if i can find zones now.

Yeah, in the cases you mention I very much doubt that DLNA is the factor here. It sounds like the BDP has amuch better DAC than either your internal sound card or the Dragonfly, although I've heard people here singing the parises of the Dragonfly. Note that the Dragonfly is an external USB DAC as far as I'm aware!

csimon · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:58:36 pm »

If you still can't see the BDP in MC, check that Windows can see it, i.e. in Network Devices I think.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2014, 03:58:52 pm »

hmmm...i don't see zones. i also looked in network settings of the blu ray and it does see 3 different devices which have permission to control it....not sure why i am not seeing zones.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2014, 04:06:05 pm »

Quote from: csimon on February 15, 2014, 03:58:36 pm

If you still can't see the BDP in MC, check that Windows can see it, i.e. in Network Devices I think.

yes, under network|other devices i see the blu-ray player in windows
but still dont see "ZONES" in the left pane of the MC gui

csimon · « **Reply #24 on:** February 15, 2014, 04:08:33 pm »

The menu isn't called Zones, it's called "Playing Now". What entries do you see? By default it should have your local PC, also a sub-menu called Playing From.

Have you enabled DLNA controller in MC?

6233638 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 15, 2014, 04:13:36 pm »

Have you previously disabled listing DLNA devices?

mikemcsw · « **Reply #26 on:** February 15, 2014, 04:20:07 pm »

ok, i see under "playing now' blu-ray disc player...i dont see the word zones, but i see the blu-ray disc player...
got it working!! cool thanks !!!

mikemcsw · « **Reply #27 on:** February 15, 2014, 04:22:51 pm »

just an fyi, i missed your line that said "Have you enabled Media Network and DLNA Controller? http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Network"

once i did that, the bluray player showed up under playing now....never saw the word zones though...

SOUNDS GREAT! No need for external DAC.
I am sure i will buy this MC within the next day or two..thanks again! Great support (winK)

csimon · « **Reply #28 on:** February 15, 2014, 04:26:43 pm »

Phew!

So where are you playing your music from? Did you connect to the DLNA server on the NAS (loading under Playing From) or did you import your media into MC, out of interest?

mikemcsw · « **Reply #29 on:** February 15, 2014, 05:15:05 pm »

Quote from: csimon on February 15, 2014, 04:26:43 pm

Phew!

So where are you playing your music from? Did you connect to the DLNA server on the NAS (loading under Playing From) or did you import your media into MC, out of interest?

I imported it into MC as suggested.

A couple issues.

I don't know why, but when i play the same file by using the blu-ray remote, it says in the upper right corner of the monitor 1.4MB PCM and it sounds great.
But when i play it from MC, it says 128K MP3, but its the same file?
I even reimported it.
In mc it does say its a wav file, but on the blu-ray screen it says 128K mp3??
Is there another setting in MC somewhere?

Also, it won't let me play MP4 files, but i read that the sony will play mp4 files...i am not so worried about this if i can figure out why the wav file plays much better from blu-ray remote than from jriver mc?

csimon · « **Reply #30 on:** February 15, 2014, 05:31:35 pm »

In the Add or Configure DLNA Servers screen, there are options for conversion (Audio ==> Mode, and Format). It probably has "Specified Output Format" selected, and MP3 as the format? Try changing Mode to Original. If that doesn't work, put Mode as "Specified Output Format" and select "PCM L16 No Header" as the Format.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #31 on:** February 15, 2014, 05:39:59 pm »

thanks...i need a break...i will try in an hour or so...

this is all so great and exciting...thanks.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #32 on:** February 15, 2014, 06:15:14 pm »

that worked...thanks.... LPCM 1.4Mbps wav are now working over WDMYCLOUD DLNA using sony BDP-s790 internal DAC...
mp4's are working now too....in same section i changed video to original format

sounds awesome with no external dac

hardwired ethernet

total investment

used Sony BDP-s790 Blu-ray $150
used Marantz SR 5500 $50
used velodyne HG-10 sub $270
refurbished from polk Cherry RTI-A3 $330

best system imaginable for $800

JimH · « **Reply #33 on:** February 15, 2014, 06:53:33 pm »

Thanks, csimon.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #34 on:** February 15, 2014, 08:00:41 pm »

indeed, thank you!

i never had to read a document or even go to a link with all your help (grin)....

the support alone was worth the purchase price....I just registered it.

last couple questions (at least for now-wink)....
1. Can i uninstall the media server part and play direct from my local hd now, and still point to the blu-ray player? It seems to play local files fine to the bluray.
2. Do you think i would see comparable audio quality going out the hdmi port of my pc to a mid level Marantz AVR (right now i have an older marantz and don't even have hdmi or i would have tried it first).

connersw · « **Reply #35 on:** February 15, 2014, 09:36:43 pm »

Quote from: mikemcsw on February 15, 2014, 08:00:41 pm

the support alone was worth the purchase price....I just registered it.

It should be noted that those who helped you, including csimon (who was incredibly patient), do not work for JRiver. They are just users like you. If you enjoy the software, it may be worthwhile reading some of the links you were given and learning more about it. Maybe someday you might be able to help a new user as well.

1. Not sure if you are referring to the media server on your wdmycloud or JRiver Media Server. JRiver Media Server running is required to utilize DLNA.
2. Sound Quality can be incredibly subjective. We could discuss the inherit pros and cons of different inputs (HDMI, USB, toslink, etc), but in the end, what matters is what sounds good to you. Unless someone has heard your Sony Blu-ray Player and the exact Marantz AVR you intend to buy, it is really impossible to comment or speculate.

csimon · « **Reply #36 on:** February 16, 2014, 05:42:56 am »

Quote from: mikemcsw on February 15, 2014, 08:00:41 pm

1. Can i uninstall the media server part and play direct from my local hd now, and still point to the blu-ray player? It seems to play local files fine to the bluray.

As I understand it, what you have at the moment is an MC DLNA server with a library created by importing media from your WD NAS, but what you want to get to is to ditch the MC library and just use the DLNA server on the NAS?

If that's correct, then the next step is to go to the "PLaying From" menu and open it and, all being well, your WD DLNA server should appear in the list (automatically, like the BDP did in the Playing Now list). Then highlight it and, in the main window, press the Load Library button. That's it.

MC will then read the remote DLNA library and you will be able to browse it and send to the BDP. This will bypass MC's DLNA server so it's relying totally on the server in the NAS.

connersw · « **Reply #37 on:** February 16, 2014, 06:20:34 am »

Quote from: csimon on February 16, 2014, 05:42:56 am

MC will then read the remote DLNA library and you will be able to browse it and send to the BDP. This will bypass MC's DLNA server so it's relying totally on the server in the NAS.

Just to clarify, this will not use MC's Library or MC as a DMS (Digital Media Server); however, it will be using MC as a DMC (Digital Media Controller) so JRiver Media Server will still have to be running. The difference in the naming can be a bit confusing.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #38 on:** February 16, 2014, 04:38:31 pm »

Thanks all....
what i really wanted to do is to not have to import, and i found a way...it may not be the most efficient but its working great for what i wanted to do.

This is what I did.
1. I set my download path for my browser to W:\ which is my WDMycloud DLNA storage device
2. I then added a new Library (Mikes Music pointing to T:\Music)
3. Under tools, I set the import to automatically import W:\ and all subdirs

Works great....so now when i download a file from youtube (or from any of my music sites), it automatically downloads to W:\ and is automatically displayed in Mikes Music Library....cool!

I love this program.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #39 on:** February 16, 2014, 04:43:36 pm »

I do have a question though...right now, i see the files imported in Playlists | Recently imported.
Is there some place else i would see ALL the files (without having to look in audio and video separately)?

MrC · « **Reply #40 on:** February 16, 2014, 05:05:53 pm »

Create a Smartlist, and clear the Media Type that is set by default.

You can also create views anywhere under Audio, Video, etc., but just de-select the Use parent scheme rules for file display checkbox. The top-level categories of Audio, Video, Images, etc define which media type are selected, and the views beneath default to inheriting these rules from the top-level.

mikemcsw · « **Reply #41 on:** February 17, 2014, 01:21:56 am »

Quote from: MrC on February 16, 2014, 05:05:53 pm

Create a Smartlist, and clear the Media Type that is set by default.

You can also create views anywhere under Audio, Video, etc., but just de-select the Use parent scheme rules for file display checkbox. The top-level categories of Audio, Video, Images, etc define which media type are selected, and the views beneath default to inheriting these rules from the top-level.

Cool, I made a smartlist called ALL FILES...that was easy! This program can probably do ANYTHING!
It's nice to see so many features for displaying your files. I can only imagine what other features this thing has...some day i will have to take the time to learn it...i am too busy listening to music (grin)!

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: will this JRiver MediaCenter program allow me to do this.... (Read 10175 times)