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[bjsolem]

I just went from dial up to cable (yes!)

I'm going to be adding a wireless g router soon that will have some ethernet ports on the back.  

I'd like to hook up a network hard drive to the router to add about 160 - 250 gig of storage to the laptops that we use.  I would use it for music and photos but the main thing would be to free up space on our laptop drives.  We would also use it for simple backups.

From what I can tell the network hard drives are about $50 - $100 more expensive than the firewire/usb varieties.  They also don't seem to be very widely manufactured, mostly unknown names.

Has anyone used these drives?
Do they work well?
Is there anything I need to consider that is not obvious about these drives?
Is there a good place to look for good deals or a variety of manufacturers?

Does someone have a better/cheaper solution I may not be considering?

Obviously I am a little nervous about these drives but if they work like I think they should they would be a handy solution for a household with no desktops in it.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.

[Mastiff]

Why not a cheap, older PC (Pentium II's can be had for free, almost, at least here in Norway) with a regular harddrive? Then you can probably use it for other stuff as well.

[bjsolem]

Why not a cheap, older PC (Pentium II's can be had for free, almost, at least here in Norway) with a regular harddrive? Then you can probably use it for other stuff as well.

I've thought about that, and it's a possibility, but I'd rather not mess with an additional pc.  I'd have to get a wireless card for it or run cable to whatever closet I found to stick it in.  

At this point the idea of a little drive sitting next to my router is more appealing than messing with a whole PC.

[Mastiff]

OK. I just know I could put together a full pc with wireless network for less than 100 dollars, and then stuff 500 gigs of hard drive space into it (since Windows takes over the harddrives from the BIOS you can use larger harddrives as long as you boot from one that's small enough for the BIOS to address directly.

[pipsqueak]

depends if the laptops are always on, but if they are just get a usb/firewire drive and make it part of your shared folders. thats what my flatmates and i do - works well until the person owning the drives (me) turns the laptop off/goes on holiday!!!

[fex]

OK. I just know I could put together a full pc with wireless network for less than 100 dollars, and then stuff 500 gigs of hard drive space into it

There would be a lot of noise.

[glynor]

I don't know much about them, but IIRC there was a review of a few of the "pro-sumer" marketed NAS (network attached storage) drives on "The Screen Savers" TechTV show a few months back.  They keep archives of all their old stories on their web site (www.thescreensavers.com).  Often, their reviews aren't super-in-depth, but they post links to places that have more information.

I would also definately check out Tom's Networking (http://www.tomsnetworking.com/) for reviews.  They do serious, in-depth, revews on lots of NAS boxes.  Unfortunately, their Reviews "section" is indexed by product name only, so you will have to know the name of the product that you are looking for first.  For suggestions on that, you might want to post over on the forums at Tom's Hardware (http://www.community.tomshardware.com/forum/categories.m) ...

I, personally, would tend to agree with Mastiff ... Buy an old P2 on eBay and slap Linux on it ... Plus, you can do a RAID5 setup then (with a PCI RAID add in card) and get real data security.

If you've your heart set on an all-in-one box, I would check Tom's (and best of luck)!

[skeeterfood]

There would be a lot of noise.

If you're in a house, just shove it in the laundry room.  That's what I did

PIII 450
384 MB Memory
18.2 GB HD for Windows
120 GB HD for Data
Ethernet Card

I use UltraVNC (http://ultravnc.sourceforge.net/) to admin the machine, so it needs no keyboard, mouse, or monitor.

NOTE: If you have a LOT of PCs, there is the small problem of the 10 user sharing limit on Windows XP.

-John

[glynor]

I use UltraVNC (http://ultravnc.sourceforge.net/) to admin the machine, so it needs no keyboard, mouse, or monitor.

NOTE: If you have a LOT of PCs, there is the small problem of the 10 user sharing limit on Windows XP.

That's why I would use Linux.   First of all, you won't need to go into your closet (or laundry room) anywhere near as often to reset the machine.  SAMBA has no limit on users (and is more powerful than the sharing included with XP Pro, including a WINS server and other stuff).  Most Linux distros come with VNC server support built in.  And best of all, it is free!

You might think it would be too hard to set it up using Linux, but really as long as you get one of the major distros (SuSE, Redhat, Mandrake, etc) and throw KDE on the desktop (or Gnome too, but I find KDE easier) it isn't too bad at all.  Plus, if you then research it a little (maybe buy a book) you can use the box as your DHCP server and a local DNS server too!

[skeeterfood]

That's why I would use Linux.   First of all, you won't need to go into your closet (or laundry room) anywhere near as often to reset the machine.  SAMBA has no limit on users (and is more powerful than the sharing included with XP Pro, including a WINS server and other stuff).  Most Linux distros come with VNC server support built in.  And best of all, it is free!

You might think it would be too hard to set it up using Linux, but really as long as you get one of the major distros (SuSE, Redhat, Mandrake, etc) and throw KDE on the desktop (or Gnome too, but I find KDE easier) it isn't too bad at all.  Plus, if you then research it a little (maybe buy a book) you can use the box as your DHCP server and a local DNS server too!

But, until Media Server is released on Linux (probably never), I'll have to keep using Win XP, since the file server is also my Media Server...

-John

[JimH]

... until Media Server is released on Linux (probably never)...

If I live long enough, it will happen.

[benrad]

... until Media Server is released on Linux (probably never)...

If I live long enough, it will happen.

Could you think of any possible way this could work? I guess you could store all your music files on the linux box, and map a drive from XP (I haven't played around with Linux that much, can you even do that?), and then import them into your library? Would that work, or would it be slow as hell? I guess there's not really any point in doing it that way either.

Ehh, it's late, I'll shut up.  

[Buellie]

I Had A Chat With The Guy That Builds My Computers About That..I Thought Them Damn Things Would Be The Nuts...He Wondered About The Security..The Only Thing That Sits Between Your Data And The Internet Is Your Router Firewall..How Safe Are These Drives?

[bspachman]

Could you think of any possible way this could work? I guess you could store all your music files on the linux box, and map a drive from XP (I haven't played around with Linux that much, can you even do that?), and then import them into your library? Would that work, or would it be slow as hell? I guess there's not really any point in doing it that way either.

Ehh, it's late, I'll shut up.  

Actually, this method works great. For example, I have my MC10 client machine (Win 2k) hooked to my home network, where the most important component is the media server.

The server has an 80GB dual-boot drive w/Win2k & SuSE 9.0 installed. In the box is 1TB of RAID5 storage--about half of which is dedicated to my music collection (all APE).

Everything works quickly & transparently over the 100Mbit ethernet connection to my MC machine. Everything also works great over an 802.11b connection to my Macintosh.

Because the server also has a 1GBit ethernet port, I have expandability to burn. I expect to use it to serve music & video through the whole house in the not-too-distant future.

Best,
Brad

[glynor]

... until Media Server is released on Linux (probably never)...

If I live long enough, it will happen.

Jim, if there is any kind of secret mojo I can provide to ensure that you do live that long, let me know!!  If that happens, we're only a hop, skip, and a jump from OSX ... Muahahaha.  

Skeeterfood -

If you would be buying a NAS you wouldn't be running MC from the NAS drive (obviously) ... It would be simply serving the files (through SMB protocol) to your regular windows box, and you would run MC there!

If you built a custom box to house the network drive, it would be the same scenario, you wouldn't be running MC on that box, you would be running it on your regular Windows PC.  In fact, most consumer NAS boxes just run an embedded version of Linux anyhow (with a really wimpy "processor").  I was just making the point that if you were building a box exclusively for use as a storage "server" it would be cheaper, more reliable, and in most ways better (and require less advanced hardware too) to use Linux as the OS rather than Windows.

It is, of course, completely your personal choice.  The NAS boxes are nice because they are fairly plug-n-pray (oops, i mean play).  A little Linux server does give you more flexibility, power, and LOTS more upgrade options (what about when you switch to FLAC or APE and that 250-300 GB hard drive isn't nearly enough).  If it is only fear that is scaring you off, I suggest you at least take a look at the cost and capabilities.  I suspect that if you are technical enough to set up your own network, and set up MC in any sort of custom way at all, you should be able to get a linux SAMBA (windows file sharing) server running with little trouble.

[glynor]

Could you think of any possible way this could work? I guess you could store all your music files on the linux box, and map a drive from XP (I haven't played around with Linux that much, can you even do that?), and then import them into your library? Would that work, or would it be slow as hell? I guess there's not really any point in doing it that way either.

It certainly does work!!  That is exactly how I have my system set up.  I have a P2-333 box running RedHat 9 (I know, I know) on my network.  Inside it has an 800GB disk array running that is shared using SAMBA (which is an opensource windows file sharing implementation for all of the UNIXes -- it comes with RH, most other linux distros, and OSX).  As far as my other Windows boxes are concerned, the linux box is just another windows machine on the network.  I map the network share as a network drive on my windows machines and point MC at it.

As far as slow, I really see little difference between using that and using a local drive.  I do encode my files onto a local drive on my windows box (when I rip CDs) and then move my files over to the network drive for speed's sake (actually a script does that part).  It works if I do that over the network, but it does slow the rip down a bit.  Playback is fine though (even with large video files).  If you were really concerned about speed, I suppose you could invest in Gigabit ethernet, but I have seen little need.  The only other thing I have trouble with is updating tags.  That IS slow for some reason, but I have a second, less frequently used Windows box that I run MC "Update Tags from Library" every so often on.  It takes all night, but oh well, I am sleeping then anyhow.

This would be the same (if not worse) with a NAS I suspect.  I used to have the network drive hosted in a Windows box, and the Tag updating (and ripping) was even slower.  Of course, that was also pre-RAID, so I'm not sure whether it was the RAID or Linux that helped there.

I Had A Chat With The Guy That Builds My Computers About That..I Thought Them ** Things Would Be The Nuts...He Wondered About The Security..The Only Thing That Sits Between Your Data And The Internet Is Your Router Firewall..How Safe Are These Drives?

Probably far safer than your windows box.  Do you realize how insecure a default Windows (even 2K and XP, though they are lightyears better than 98/ME) are?  As I mentioned above, most of the NAS drives just run an embedded little Linux server (some are FreeBSD probably too, which is even more secure out of the box).  Both of those OSes are far more secure by default than windows is.  If you are relying on your OS to protect you you are crazy.  Of course, the only real way to secure any computer network is to unplug it.  

[Nolonemo]

Isn't it the case that  it doesn't matter how secure the networked drive is if the wireless network itself is wide open?....  Be sure to enable WEP, set up MAC filtering, etc.

[Mastiff]

Because the server also has a 1GBit ethernet port, I have expandability to burn. I expect to use it to serve music & video through the whole house in the not-too-distant future.

I do that now. You only need 100 mbit, at least if you're not streaming more than one DiVX and one uncompressed DVD at the same time. I have all The Lord of the Rings-movies ripped to a harddrive on my server, and when I watch that in the HT (with the HTPC) I stream them over the regular 100 mbit network. And sometimes my son watches a DiVX (high quality - around 1400 kbps) on his compuer at the same time. I haven't yet tried with two DiVX and an uncompressed DVD, but I would guess that it works since I can partly stream a DVD over the 11 mbps WLAN card in my laptop, it will drop around 50 % of the frames.

[roognation]

Little trouble here, maybe you guys can help me figure out a way around this "anomoly."  I have 10.0.104 loaded on my laptop and the trouble is, I have 90 percent of my music on a server to which this laptop is not connected to all the time.  When I bring up MC in the media library and I am not connected to the server, MC nearly hangs: looking for 90 % of the files (all of them MP3s) which are not available.  Is this normal?  Or is this a bug?  Eventually the files get the grey rectangle with the red X...  Of course, when the laptop is connected (via ethernet) this setup seems to work (more testing this weekend).

I hate to see MC so very sluggish (had to wait about 30 seconds before I could click on anything, then another long wait).

Thanks for the help!

[kiwi]

You can pick up some of the Dell poweredge servers pretty inexpensively, you might check them out.  The 400sc is quite quiet.  Then dump in some HDs.

kiwi

[glynor]

Is this normal?  Or is this a bug?

My guess would be that this is normal.  You would have to get an answer from someone who knows the code better to be sure, but I would guess that MC is checking furiously to try to find the files that it can, and mark the missing ones as missing.  A better solution would probably be to maintain two separate libraries on the laptop ... One for local media, and one for network media.

Unfortunately, currently I don't believe there is a way to launch MC with a specific library loaded from the command line, so you would have to remember to always switch the laptop back to the "local" library when you shut MC down.  Hopefully, once 10 is released and they have time to start adding new functionality, they will bring the mjextman.exe more up-to-speed and give us a /library command (unless they did, and I missed it ... anyone?).