Topic: DFX plug-in and audio buffer flush (Read 8682 times)

MrCC · « **on:** March 22, 2004, 09:21:46 am »

There was always a problem in MJ8 when using the DFX plug-in where changing tracks would invariably result in a click/pop as the audio changed.

DFX/MJ never appeared to resolve this problem, seemingly saying it was in the others' court, and each proclaiming it was not them at fault directly. There are notes on this on the DFX site, and in the forum here.

I have since changed to MC9 (9.1.316 and DSP 6.11) and the problem still exists as far as I can hear.
Is this problem also in MC10?

Can anyone confirm if it has been fixed for MC9 and or MC10?

And for that matter MJ8, where it should be expected to work. In particular because MJ8 is still being sold, and the DFX adverts are all over this site. It's not un-reasonable to think the products work OK together.

BTW, this note from DFX is now nearly two years old, and they still say "we are working to resolve this problem"
------------------------------------------------------
DFX Support Answer
I hear a noticeable "POP" at song startup.
Some media players do not inform plug-ins when the playback of a different song is starting. Complex plug-ins like DFX that include room ambience modeling do not have a means to "flush out" the ambience in the room from the prior song when the playback of a new song occurs, hence, the occasional popping noise on song startup.
We are working to remedy this situation. In the meantime, closing the player and reopening it will usually eliminate the startup "pop." Also, turning off the Ambience feature may be effective.
------------------------------------------

MrCC · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2004, 06:36:09 am »

Well that's disappointing.
I have just tried the latest version of MC10 (10.0.96) with DFX 6.11 and the problem is still there.

When different songs are selected, as the new one loads to play, an audible disruption can be heard. This varies from a click sound to a sort of pre-echo. Pre in that it comes ahaed of the new track, but it is actually the old track re-appearing very briefly.

DFX settings used are standard 'out-of-the-box' values. One suggestion by DFX that may alleviate the problem is to reduce the amount of 'ambience'. But why should you have to do that? It may be a temporary work-around, but the problem still appears to be there.

I'm not sure if I had it with MJ7.2, that was a while ago. However, it has apparently managed to remain there through 3 different generations of MJ/MC (MJ8, MC9, MC10).

JimH, please, what is the status of this apparent on-going problem, is it logged, and what plans are there to fix it?
Thanks

MrCC · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2004, 01:32:49 pm »

JimH, please, what is the status of this apparent on-going problem, is it logged, and what plans are there to fix it?
Thanks

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2004, 01:36:11 pm »

I don't think this is an MC problem.

There are many sources of such problems. Here's an example:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=20057

It turned out to be a Windows/hardware configuration problem.

I suggest a google search for similar problems.

MrCC · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2004, 02:05:47 pm »

JimH,
That example you pointed me to had nothing to do with the problem described above. It is not a random/intermittent thing that happens.
Neither is it something prolonged that gets worse as other things are happening. It lasts for a few seconds only.

It is exactly as per the note in my posting above from DFX,

"DFX Support Answer
Problem: I hear a noticeable "POP" at song startup.
Answer: Some media players do not inform plug-ins when the playback of a different song is starting."
Also (DFX) 'We are working to remedy this situation'.

That last comment has got to be at least two years old.

The 'problem' I am still seeing has been there with MJ8, recently MC9, and just the other day with MC10. And one a progression of about three different computers, with different hardware, including sound cards.
It is not a hardware problem. It is reproducable, and always occurs immediately a track is changed (by double clicking). Particularly noticeable if the Standard fade is used.

Are you perhaps aware of any dialog DFX have had with J River on this since DFX posted that support comment? What did DFX mean when they said they were working to resolve it (having identified it as a problem with media player software)?

If this site is hosting DFX advert banners, you have obviously a working relationship with them. Likewise DFX promotes the MJ and MC players.
Please can you review this problem with them and see what may be needed for a fix.
I know some users here don't use any form of 'enhancer', and some others use the J River ones, but it would be nice for those that want to use the DFX to have it work correctly.
Thanks

MrCC · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2004, 04:01:52 pm »

JimH
"I suggest a google search for similar problem"

Google is very good, I know.

Search 'flush DFX'

Answer:
www.fxsound.com - DFX Support Answer
... Complex plug-ins like DFX that include room ambience modeling do not have a means
to "flush out" the ambience in the room from the prior song when the playback ...
www.fxsound.com/ dfx/pages/support/usage/use016.php?vendor=0&subvendor=0&plus=0 - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

Sauzee · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2004, 05:26:26 pm »

I remember I had a similar problem with DFX and MC. In the end I stopped using it, as I found I actually got better sound from using MC's DSP.

Sorry not an answer to your post, but I honestly feel MC's sound is better without DFX.

I do seem to remember that I thought WMP sounded better with DFX but I don't use that much these days.

Wile E. One · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2004, 07:49:08 pm »

I too had this problem with MJ/MC and DFX. This occured on at least 3 different computers I had. In the end, I found that MC's DSP gave me good enough sound that I didn't want to bother with DFX any more.

I also know that the problem you describe has been discussed a number of times before on these boards (MJ8, and MC9). If you search waaaay back... you should find something.

Again, I know it's not a big help to you... but at least it's confirmation from another person that the problem exists (or at least, it did the last time I tried it).

MrCC · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2004, 02:29:38 am »

Thanks Wile E. One and Sauzee. Thanks for the confirmation, I know it wasn't just me, at least now J River know too.

At least one (or more) of the posts from way back would have been mine, but nothing was resolved then. I like the DFX plug-in, and prefer it to the MJ/MC one. I realise this is a personal preference. I also like to use it when I convert some MP3's to burn on an audio CD.
Needless to say to do this I don't use MJ/MC, but rather Musicmatch Jukebox to make the 'enhanced' wavs, then Feurio to burn them.

In fact I do all my music stuff outside of MJ/MC, which I really only use to play files. I have the Albumview plug-in, and I use Glissando, an excellent add-on to display cover art and tracks from a distance. I rip with EAC, use Lame 3.90.2 (Razorlame interface), manage my tags with Tag & Rename, burn with Feurio. I also use PsychicMP3 to help rename via the Internet.
And all my images, movies are handled by specific programs. Movie viewing by Sigma X-card with JovePlayer on TV, images displayed that way too.

Until just recently I was using MJ8, which was OK to play back the files (supported heavily by Albumview and Glissando). There were two annoying bugs with this, one was the DSP 'pop', the other a bug in MJ8 (still there) where if you go and grabbed a few albums for your playlist, then shuffled the order, the current track playing info was incorrect till it got to the next song. This made Glissando incorrect as well.
I only went to MC9 a month ago, because the writing was on the wall for MJ8. Now I understand MC10 is the flavour, and I was appalled to read a post from a moderator the other day saying the latest MC10 Beta was more stable than this Just Released (as advertised) MC9.1

All I want MJ/MC to do is play back my files.
No ripping, burning, tagging, converting, CD playing, movie watching etc etc. which is why it is so annoying that the DSP plug-in is not correctly supported.
And why I find it so rude to be visually hit in the face by the DSP plug-in banner everytime I go onto the site, when I know full well that it doesn't work as it should.

MrCC · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2004, 03:36:33 am »

Just in case I was missing something here, and maybe things had changed a lot with the built-in J River DSP since the last time I had tried it, I took some time to test it out again over the weekend.

It's OK, certainly better than not having something there, but I do prefer the DFX plug-in quite a bit. This is a personal preference, I know.

To bring us back to the point of the post in the first place...

JimH, can you please provide some response on this, with respect to J River and DFX getting this plug-in to work correctly. Thanks.

GHammer · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2004, 12:07:32 pm »

You might also want to ask the DFX folks why the MC plugin is version 6.1 while the version for other players is 6.4

I do not get the pop as often as I once did. But I do not use any other DSP, only allow auto gain based on the playlist.

I hear what you describe infrequently now. One thing I did was to use MP3Gain before analyzing with MC. Before the adjustment during analyze averaged -11, now it averages -6

If only iZotope Ozone Plugin were available for MC. It's my all time favorite.

Matt · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2004, 12:24:20 pm »

There's no defined way to flush a Winamp style DSP plugin. The only code we know that might work with some plugins might crash others.

The best answer is to ask DFX to write a native MC plugin -- it'll then be pure 32-bit and offer much tighter integration.

It probably wouldn't take them more than a few hours of work either.

clout · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2004, 01:03:21 pm »

GHammer

I use iZotope Ozone 3 with MC10.
Just instal the directX plugin first then add Ozone through that.
Works great for me

MrCC · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2004, 01:46:56 pm »

Matt, re your message above.

Please go for it. Ask them to do this (it should have been done two years ago).
Leverage the working (advertising) relationship J River and DFX have to get this to happen.

Please don't expect us customers to get anywhere with this. Have you ever tried to contact DFX as a member of Joe Public? They seem to hide behind their web site, the only direct communication point there is a Sales fax number. The other contact stuff fires up some sort of e-mail? new account thing.

This is definately something for one tech group to resolve with the other, for the benefit of their present (and future) customers. Otherwise with a known problem with the DFX plug-in, how can you in all conscience keep advertising their product?

I appreciate your response, but please lets move to fix this.

Look at the situation even here (J River site). It has taken me over a week to get any meaningful acknowledgement of the problem, let alone movement to a fix. How long do you think it would take me with DFX?

GHammer · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2004, 08:18:00 pm »

Quote from: clout on March 29, 2004, 01:03:21 pm

GHammer

I use iZotope Ozone 3 with MC10.
Just instal the directX plugin first then add Ozone through that.
Works great for me

I'll give it a try. Thanks!

MrCC · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2004, 02:34:44 pm »

clout
Is that the $299 iZotope Ozone program you are talking about? That seems to be the one that works via DirectX.

They appear to have some $29 versions of a smaller program that work with Windows Media Player 9 and higher, Winamp 2, Winamp 3 etc. But this wouldn't work with MC10, would it?

clout · « **Reply #16 on:** March 30, 2004, 04:37:41 pm »

MrCC,
I use the full blown Ozone 3.02 for direct X, however I Just tried the plugin for WinAmp2. It is a DSP plugin & can be loaded in MC via Tools/Plugin manager/DSP/add.
Not nearly as versatile as the DX version, but considerably cheaper.

zak326 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 30, 2004, 09:08:58 pm »

I've brought this up before but it is still a problem with neither J River nor DFX willipng to do anything about it. If i install and register DFX plugin. Everytime I go to play something ity totally kicks me out of Mcenter, and deletes my6 registration. I simply uninstalledit and everything works fine. I have tried this with every release since before 10 beta began and it consistently is a problem. Has anyone else had this problem? Everytime it ha[ppens I haveto rretrieve my registration online and am going through restores like h0otcakes. This onlyu happens with DFX registered version. thoughts?

Mastiff · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2004, 03:03:37 pm »

I dumped DFX like a rotten tomato (which is sort of what I consider it now) when I found the DX plug-in RGCAudio High Frequency Stimulator. It was the HF in MP3's I needed DFX for, but DFX is not a multi-zone plug-in, so I had been looking for an alternative for a year or so. Lisa told me about this plug-in in a message she wrote in the forum, and the setting "Gimme that MP3" is better than DFX's system. I never use "wide" sound stuff, it sounds unnatural. With MC's virtual subwoofer and equalizer my system sounds better now than it ever did with DFX. Not to mention that I don't get those annoying popup windows that DFX sends out at times, commercials for totally bull stuff they sell. In a system without a monitor that's not good enough. So "Go RGCAudio!"

MrCC · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2004, 06:57:43 am »

I saw your post on that Mastiff, re thanking Lisa for the info. I'll look into that too.

clout/GHammer
I have been trying to install the demo Izotope Winamp DFX plug-in, also the full demo Izotope.
What is the trick to getting them to show up? At least maybe the winamp one. Do you change install folder, or copy the files across to the J River folder?
On my test PC I am running W2k/MC9.1.316, have DirectX 9 installed, have DLed the J River DirectX plug-in, that is visible.

Edit/
OK, I got he full one (demo) to appear, it's just the Winamp versions 2,3).

Edit 2/
I've got the Winamp add-in to work as well.

If it helps others that find this through searching..

The full iZotope adds after you have added DirectX via Plug-in manager, then go to Player, Playback options, DSP studio etc. Enable DirectX plug-in. Add iZotope 3.

Winamp once installed is simply via plug-in manager, just browse for the dll (like with DFX).

GHammer · « **Reply #20 on:** April 01, 2004, 10:50:28 am »

Quote from: Mastiff on March 31, 2004, 03:03:37 pm

I dumped DFX like a rotten tomato (which is sort of what I consider it now) when I found the DX plug-in RGCAudio High Frequency Stimulator. So "Go RGCAudio!"

Thanks, I hunted it down and I do like it. Izotope DX version does more, bu this plugin does what I want with my soundcard and speakers. Best, it's free!

GHammer · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2004, 11:05:57 am »

Quote from: Mastiff on March 31, 2004, 03:03:37 pm

I found the DX plug-in RGCAudio High Frequency Stimulator. It was the HF in MP3's I needed DFX for, but DFX is not a multi-zone plug-in, so I had been looking for an alternative for a year or so. Lisa told me about this plug-in in a message she wrote in the forum, and the setting "Gimme that MP3" is better than DFX's system.

Ok, I like the sound, but the preset does not 'stick' I choose Gimme that MP3 and close DSP studio. If I open DSP studio again, the plugin is back to 00-Default.

Any idea what I can do to get the setting to stay from session to session?

Thanks for your help, and for the plugin info.

Mastiff · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2004, 04:17:47 pm »

You're not the first one getting fooled by that one. The text box is back to default, the sound is not.

jleerigby · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2004, 02:11:47 am »

For what it's worth I agree entirely with Mastiff. I too dumped DFX for RCGAudio and would never go back.

GHammer · « **Reply #24 on:** April 02, 2004, 08:59:34 am »

It's kind of nice, but nothing I have found beats the full DX version of Izotope Ozone. Pricy, but it was bought when I was paper rich from stock options!

LonWar · « **Reply #25 on:** April 02, 2004, 06:20:45 pm »

Sounds Like a pretty cool toy... (RGC Audio) I clicked on the download link and it takes you to the ftp server... What exactly am I supposed to download?

GHammer · « **Reply #26 on:** April 03, 2004, 01:18:47 am »

Quote from: imjustagamer on April 02, 2004, 06:20:45 pm

Sounds Like a pretty cool toy... (RGC Audio) I clicked on the download link and it takes you to the ftp server... What exactly am I supposed to download?

The file is hfstimdx10.exe

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: DFX plug-in and audio buffer flush (Read 8682 times)

MrCC

MrCC

MrCC

MrCC

MrCC

MrCC

MrCC

MrCC

MrCC

MrCC

jleerigby