Topic: What to expect with version 10? (Read 4840 times)

Eiffel · « **on:** December 05, 2003, 01:25:35 pm »

There is a marked difference between MJ8 and MC9, in terms of media handled, features, etc.
(In my view, some of the great additions were: ASIO support, windows media integration, TV card and video/picture support... and I'm sure I must be forgetting a few other key things)

I am not sure I saw such a feature jump between 9.0 and 9.1 (9.1 added panes and a few other features, which is fine for a 'point' release).

Now, I would like to understand what the idea behind version 10 is? I don't mind helping finance the development, but I would like to have an idea, ahead of time, of what I'm buying into... especially because, on some aspects, MC9/9.1 was never finished (hairstyle never really delivered, the TV module is not well integrated and lacks some features to be really useful -EPG and upside down video in timeshift mode-, the photo album, DVD playback, WMV etc. are not really best in class, and external remote controllability is not where it ought to be without MCIO...). I was expecting there would be an MC9.2, and that 9.3 would be a mature well polished all-media application with a flowrishing developper community (plenty of plugins, etc.)

Don't get me wrong: MC9 was/is a very ambitious product, and I understand that it takes time to make it perfect, and that some tradeoffs are inevitable. Currently, This is the best audio media manager for my needs, although I prefer other solutions for other media or system integration...

I'm not sure that MC10 will add features/fixes which will be of interest to me, so I guess I need some motivation to stay involved

Eiffel

KingSparta · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2003, 01:35:49 pm »

Quote

Now, I would like to understand what the idea behind version 10 is?

this was already posted.

programing in MC9.1 has stoped unless they find something really wrong (there will still be bugs) so it will be any Major bugs they may go back and fix it.

I would not set and wait for bug fixes in mc 9.1

MC10 will have anything new.

sraymond · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2003, 02:01:46 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on December 05, 2003, 01:35:49 pm

Quote
Now, I would like to understand what the idea behind version 10 is?

this was already posted.

programing in MC9.1 has stoped unless they find something really wrong (there will still be bugs) so it will be any Major bugs they may go back and fix it.

I would not set and wait for bug fixes in mc 9.1

MC10 will have anything new.

I think the crux of the question is... what will make 10 a major version upgrade from 9. I think we all agree that 9 was a major upgrade from 8. What's left to look forward to? Evolutionary improvements? Revolutionary new features?

I'm working on how to ship alcohol via USPS... once I figure it out, I'm hoping a case of "Two Buck Chuck" will loosen the JRiver tongues.

Scott-

Shadowen · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2003, 02:03:24 pm »

I think it is understood that 9.1 has ceased in development (short of bug fixes), I think what he was asking was what new features could be expected in v10.

I am also interested in knowing what new things are coming. Are there new features that are being kept under wraps. Will the changes be primarily modifications to the interface with the same functionality? What is the long-term roadmap for the Media Center product?

KingSparta · « **Reply #4 on:** December 05, 2003, 02:28:25 pm »

the way it has been is J river does not talk about new options or features that have not yet been released.

so i would not think that J river will come out and tell you something about this (just yet)

they did let somethings out of the bag a few months ago, but we have not seen them yet.

modelmaker · « **Reply #5 on:** December 05, 2003, 03:11:50 pm »

I don't think anyone is looking for specifics just a general direction.

sraymond · « **Reply #6 on:** December 05, 2003, 03:35:39 pm »

Quote

the way it has been is J river does not talk about new options or features that have not yet been released.

so i would not think that J river will come out and tell you something about this (just yet)

But this "secrecy" would, understandably, create some discontent. It's certainly JRiver's prerogative...

Scott-

JimH · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2003, 04:09:17 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on December 05, 2003, 02:28:25 pm

the way it has been is J river does not talk about new options or features that have not yet been released.

so i would not think that J river will come out and tell you something about this (just yet)

Correct.

sub-24 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 05, 2003, 04:09:41 pm »

I think they are going to integrate music downloads direct into MC10.

Some form of pay as you go.

The Music Store was mentioned just after the fact they had signed a big deal.

Looks like we will have to wait and see.

Personally I won't be buying V10 until i see something new in the product that i just gotta have. Which usually happens about build 50.

Polonio · « **Reply #9 on:** December 05, 2003, 06:20:44 pm »

Yesterday I was angry, and I decided not to look at this forum anymore. I was angry because you decided to stop 9.1 development when I thoght it is still an unfinished product, and I was angry because you plan to charge again when many and important user suggestions and pleas has not been listened at all.

Today I've thogout again about it, and I decided to expose my opinion because MC is still the best music jukebox (and that's it) on the market, and I wish it become even a better product.

I think it isn't ridiculous for us to ask about the roadmap you have in mind. Especially, if you plan we pay 30$/year. I've followed MC development for a year or so, and I've experinced this same secrecy, you announce revolutionary news too often, and we never really see them. You keep developing step a step a great product, but I don't see any specific direction. I feel you just fix bugs, add minor features, improve performance, listen many user suggestions (without hearing many others)... but you don't dare to really redisegn and rethink the whole picture. I feel you expect your customers to do your job (testing, analysis, even design!), but don't trust them enoght to explain your plans (in the suppose you have it).

Will we have buttons for common actions?

Do you plan to mantain the tree any longer?

Do you plan to finish Hairstyle on version 10?

Will we be able to categorize people and places?

Do you know the answers for the previous question, or you will see?

Don't get me back. I've lived the same situation before. My MC9 evaluation version expired when it wasnt even stable or functional, I had to pay, and keep downloading "hope-it-works" versions many weeks. I paid expecting functionalities I never had.

KingSparta · « **Reply #10 on:** December 05, 2003, 06:29:57 pm »

all this reminds me of a Song (And I Like It)

'Rock The Boat' Charted At 01 In 1974

Listening to: 'Rock The Boat' from 'Absolute Boogie' by 'Hues Corporation' on Media Center 10 (Morphed Gold+ Version)

Signed: Mr. Disco

Shadowen · « **Reply #11 on:** December 05, 2003, 06:31:04 pm »

I am a paid v9 customer and I would like to participate in the beta to help shape the next version but I don't think that I will be able to see enough or offer enough before the date expires. Is there any chance you can remove the end date until the beta period is over?

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** December 05, 2003, 06:32:41 pm »

We can't tell you what you would like to know. Some of what we're working on you will like. Some of it will be meaningless. This forum represents a very important group to us, but we have more than one audience to please now. If things go well, you will know a lot about this by the middle of 2004, and maybe sooner.

For now, please be patient.

Quote

Will we have buttons for common actions?

Please start a thread on this and I'll make sure we do a few.

Quote

Do you plan to mantain the tree any longer?

Yes.

Quote

Do you plan to finish Hairstyle on version 10?

We will work more on it.

Quote

Will we be able to categorize people and places?

Please start a thread and tell us what you think should be done.

Quote

Do you know the answers for the previous question, or you will see?

I do not know the future, but I have hope.

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2003, 06:33:58 pm »

Quote from: amwoza on December 05, 2003, 06:31:04 pm

I am a paid v9 customer and I would like to participate in the beta to help shape the next version but I don't think that I will be able to see enough or offer enough before the date expires. Is there any chance you can remove the end date until the beta period is over?

There will be more builds and they will have later expiration dates.

Jaguu · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2003, 06:47:57 pm »

Let's put it like that:

We might not need to know what the new V10 features will be, but it would be nice to know at least, which of the existing areas of MC9 will be improved within the next few months!

So we are not going to cry for things that are not planned, but could focus on things that are ahead of us.

MachineHead · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:21:34 pm »

Quote

This forum represents an very important group to us, but we have more than one audience to please now. If things go well, you will know a lot about this by the middle of 2004, and maybe sooner.

Leashes are hated by everything....

Polonio · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:28:55 pm »

Quote from: JimH on December 05, 2003, 06:32:41 pm

This forum represents an very important group to us, but we have more than one audience to please now. If things go well, you will know a lot about this by the middle of 2004, and maybe sooner.

I don't like the game you are playing. I dont care about your business. I care about a music software. A music software that has helped me a lot to organize and play my music the way I want, spending a lot of time on it, but that I don't know how it will look like next week, not talk about next month.

I don't know if your priority is to sell music, software or potatos. If you really have more than one audience as you are keep saying as much as you can, congratulation, make business with them also, and be happy. But don't forget about the very very real audience your customers are. Don't forget eigher we are loyal with a music software, a bunch of code, not to a copy protected music, pay-per-listen service, propietary audio format, ad services, or Wall Street stocks . We are not even loyal to a company (JRiver or whatever). At least, I am not.

Arjuna · « **Reply #17 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:41:40 pm »

I just gota put my 2 cents in

I downloaded MC 9.1.308, 3 days ago. The trial version.

I am very pleased. By the end of this weekend I will have copied all my music to a new 160gig HD in the MP3 Vsomething format.

I have doubled my knowledge everyday on this forum.
I will pay my $40 at the end of my trial period and be greatfull for a good deal.

I hope that Version 10 will deal with video/DVD files.

I am close to spending 'big bucks'

on good video/DVD software.
I will hold off and enjoy manageing my audio and video files with MC 9.
I need to go further up this learning curve

Anyway.

Thank You

! to the people who have worked to provide me with this Sweet program.
I hope your Enterprize Prospers.

Anyone know where I can download music while I wait for Version 10

Cheers to the People at J Rivers

AJ

Arjuna · « **Reply #18 on:** December 05, 2003, 08:24:06 pm »

Of course I want to be legit in everything I do.

I missed this whole music download deal.

I did buy a talking book The Odyssey, By a guy named Homer.

MC9 playes it fine

Even found it for me.

Is there still legal free music, anymore ?

Cheers,

AJ

MachineHead · « **Reply #19 on:** December 05, 2003, 08:25:08 pm »

eTree

JimH · « **Reply #20 on:** December 05, 2003, 08:44:59 pm »

Thank you, Arjuna, for your good wishes.

a2hoo · « **Reply #21 on:** December 05, 2003, 09:05:33 pm »

If version 10 is built just for music downloads, it will be a failure.

There is now way it can compete with itunes or windows (when they start licensing downloads through media player).

I know you are out to make money but I doubt this will be a successful venture

But, that I'm sure you have researched alot and know what you are doing.

What I do not like is that you leave version 9.1 in the dust without fixing it and removing all bugs.

This seems to be a trend here and not a nice one. I was a disgrnutled 7.x owner who bought 9 because of ipod support. Many ipod users jumped at media center. I was quite angered that you reomoved television support from version 8 back in the day, despite it was part of the program that you advertised.

You need to wow us with build 10. Itunes is very good. WHile it isnt as usable as media center, it does save a good amount of money per year and works better with the ipod. Plus, aac is the way to go.

Again, I understamd it is probably impossible to make a bug free build. But, you shouldnt leave dedicated users in the dust. Please in the future, commit yourselves to
1) providing the users with a roadmap which will let them know whata version will include/not include
2) not removing features from prior versions to force people to buy new versions (as you id from 8.x to 9.x.. some here may not know you removed TV functionality from 8.x after people bought 8 with TV as an advertised fetaure and forced osme to buy 9.x if they still wanted to use TV)
3) not releasing 1-2 new versions a year just to make people upgrade.

I understand you have to make money and I have a right not to buy your product., But whenever I try to become part of the community, I feel betrayed, as if you go Fredo Corelone on me.

I like your product. You do have a large staff making it, and from what I can guess you probably dont make much money, But, keeping users like myself happy and involved will only help MC in the future., Good luck on 10. I am looking forward to it

crowfan · « **Reply #22 on:** December 05, 2003, 10:09:36 pm »

I'll say first that I agree with some of the sentiments that are being expressed here, some of the frustration. I think 9.1 needs a bit more work to be totally "finished." But I just wanted to say two things:

-- When any other software developer releases new software, they generally don't tell the free world what they are including in it before it's released. They just release it, and let people decide for themselves whether they want it. If they do tell, it's done right before the new version is released. We are lucky to have the ability to participate in the beta process ahead of time. We're not required to, we just have the option to.

-- I think alot of the complaints about "I requested this feature and it didn't get put in" are a little ridiculous (no offense intended). Again, we are lucky as heck to have such an involoved and attentive development staff working on a great product. I can't think of one other piece of software where you can go post on the message boards and the developers will actually listen to our suggestions. To get even one of them included in the final product is huge to me. I think some of the customers have been spoiled by JRiver's excellent support and interaction.

I'll say that I for one love this product, and when the time comes, I will pay my $10 or $20 to upgrade to v10. I enjoy the beta testing. Again, I don't mean to offend, but I think some people have lost sight of how great this opportunity is. In my opinion, JRiver has given us more than they needed to (in the ability to be part of the beta testing process), and I appreciate that. Of course they are a business and will try to make money. As a small business owner myself, I understand that, and I don't begrudge them the opportunity to expand their product in any way.

Of course everyone has a right to feel whatever they want, and to express that feeling, I just think we need to recognize the good too.

Cheers to all,

crow

a2hoo · « **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:36:54 am »

The problem is that Media Center is essentially always in beta mode. It is in a state of flux, nwver finished, never bugfree

so while beta testing is cool, tJRiver is uncommitted to releasing a perfected final version and seems to prefer to make a new version and more money

Matt · « **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2003, 01:34:14 am »

Let's turn it around:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=17389

Ce.D · « **Reply #25 on:** December 06, 2003, 03:17:47 am »

Quote

JimH: This forum represents an very important group to us, but we have more than one audience to please now. If things go well, you will know a lot about this by the middle of 2004, and maybe sooner.

and

Quote

Polonio: But don't forget about the very very real audience your customers are.

Take it absolutely un-politically: I'd say that this forum - as a good reprensentative of the customers - is *the* audience that needs to be pleased, because if *this* one is not pleased, no point listening to what ever the others might be. If MJ/MC got such a great success, it is because it pleased all of us *customers* who got fed up with other products that were actually listening to much to "other audiences".

This is raw reaction and I may have a totally wrong idea about what "other audiences" might be... but somehow, I can't conceive of another genuine audience than the end-users. I may also be wrong about that.

Generally, *I* would agree to pay more for a product (as long as it remains decent) to have the warranty that it keeps listening to and satisfying *my* needs as an end-user (the ways MJ/MC have so far) and not those of some other business audiences.

Quote

crowfan: we are lucky as heck to have such an involoved and attentive development staff working on a great product. I can't think of one other piece of software where you can go post on the message boards and the developers will actually listen to our suggestions

Totally agree with that. Thanx guys for ever listening to us !

Quote

a2hoo: If version 10 is built just for music downloads, it will be a failure

Why not poll about this one ? I know *my* answer to the question "are you intereted in music download" would be a definite *no*. (When I pay for music, I go get the good-old-fashioned-got-something-in-your-hand CD... even though I as a developer work on applications targeting the 'download' market)

Quote

crowfan: I think 9.1 needs a bit more work to be totally "finished."

As much as I would like to support J River (for you guys really make a tremenduous work), I sadly have to agree to crowfan's saying and I am a little afraid tha the MC10 turn-around is more a political decision than an engineering one. Future will tell.

Quote

a2hoo: I like your product. You do have a large staff making it, and from what I can guess you probably dont make much money, But, keeping users like myself happy and involved will only help MC in the future. Good luck on 10. I am looking forward to it

Nicely put.

Cheers

zevele10 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 06, 2003, 03:37:33 am »

Look like the local JRiver band will have a hit on MTV

So ,us , the ones going to concert in small places since years to support them are starting to wonder how they will beheave with us.

Hard to say , but I"AM SURE JimH is a man of honesty and integrity

aussie1 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 06, 2003, 04:11:55 am »

MC 9/9.1 is a great product. The attentiveness and responsiviness to this discussion board is fabulous. MC and MS outlook are probably the two software programs I use the most. I've gotten great value and great music enjoyment from the money I spent a year ago.

Step back from the bug fixes still open or the minor improvements requested. In its current state, MC is a powerful program. It performs its main functions flawlessly. The progress over the last year is tremendous.

That said, I'm sure JRiver knows it cannot rest. Its a competitive space. And there are lots of things that could be added. Its great that people on this board continue to push hard. Think big, not just incremental improments. (Though those would be good too).

JimH · « **Reply #28 on:** December 06, 2003, 07:26:21 am »

Quote from: Ce.D on December 06, 2003, 03:17:47 am

Take it absolutely un-politically: I'd say that this forum - as a good reprensentative of the customers - is *the* audience that needs to be pleased, because if *this* one is not pleased, no point listening to what ever the others might be.

I think you are dead wrong on this. I've never run a poll, but my guess is that the majority of the people who post frequently or make the most suggestions are people who work with computing or another similar technical field. They are important to us, especially during beta, but we can't aim the program at this high level audience. We have to please them, but we have to please a broader market.

MachineHead · « **Reply #29 on:** December 06, 2003, 07:39:10 am »

Quote from: JimH on December 06, 2003, 07:26:21 am

Quote from: Ce.D on December 06, 2003, 03:17:47 am
Take it absolutely un-politically: I'd say that this forum - as a good reprensentative of the customers - is *the* audience that needs to be pleased, because if *this* one is not pleased, no point listening to what ever the others might be.
I think you are dead wrong on this. I've never run a poll, but my guess is that the majority of the people who post frequently or make the most suggestions are people who work with computing or another similar technical field. They are important to us, especially during beta, but we can't aim the program at this high level audience. We have to please them, but we have to please a broader market.

I'm almost inclined to agree with Ce.D on this. No technical background here but the interest in this stuff is a driving factor. My only computer related skills are annoying most forum board members. I know, it's a gift....

PhatPhreddy · « **Reply #30 on:** December 06, 2003, 08:33:50 am »

Its a matter of semantics... Jim is undoubtedly right that this forum is not a normal slice of users... It contains high usage individuals with different expectations that Joe and Jane Sixpack.

However its also true that a core following makes the desciples that spread the word... They are also the core audience to suggest improvements and direction as (sadly) J6P often does not think much about the tools he uses and simply whats it to be easy / simple / good without having to make design choices how to get there.

So your both right... Happy

JimH · « **Reply #31 on:** December 06, 2003, 08:40:44 am »

Quote from: PhatPhreddy on December 06, 2003, 08:33:50 am

... its also true that a core following makes the desciples that spread the word... They are also the core audience to suggest improvements and direction as (sadly) J6P often does not think much about the tools he uses and simply whats it to be easy / simple / good without having to make design choices how to get there.

I agree. Well said.

RobOK · « **Reply #32 on:** December 06, 2003, 09:33:05 am »

on a lighter note, I have to tell you it took me a long time to figure out that "J6P" = Joe 6-Pack!!

LOL!!!

Happy snowy Saturday

KingSparta · « **Reply #33 on:** December 06, 2003, 09:38:36 am »

Quote from: RobOK on December 06, 2003, 09:33:05 am

on a lighter note, I have to tell you it took me a long time to figure out that "J6P" = Joe 6-Pack!!

LOL!!!

Happy snowy Saturday

Why do you assume he is talking about Joe? it could have been

Quote

Jane Sixpack

Or J6P, equal rights for the women

PhatPhreddy · « **Reply #34 on:** December 06, 2003, 10:01:51 am »

LOL... I often also use JQP for John Q Public but as I had started with J6P I figured I would not make it any worse...

I do have a tendancy to speak geek... I was on the Tight Audio Forums (BTW Jim I pushed Scott to you, dont know if he mentioned that but thats a nice biz partnership...) and did a breakdown about HiDef encoding and MPEG.. I thought I had explained it in slow logical baby steps from one peice of information to another... The only other followup post I got was a kinda WTF did he just say

TURBO · « **Reply #35 on:** December 06, 2003, 10:40:01 am »

Quote from: a2hoo on December 06, 2003, 12:36:54 am

The problem is that Media Center is essentially always in beta mode. It is in a state of flux, nwver finished, never bugfree

so while beta testing is cool, tJRiver is uncommitted to releasing a perfected final version and seems to prefer to make a new version and more money

I agree with this guy. This is what is happening in reality.

Ce.D · « **Reply #36 on:** December 06, 2003, 11:44:24 am »

Quote from: JimH on December 06, 2003, 07:26:21 am

I think you are dead wrong on this. I've never run a poll, but my guess is that the majority of the people who post frequently or make the most suggestions are people who work with computing or another similar technical field.

I'd be really interested by such a poll (as much as you would I bet). Maybe you could start it ?

As a my-own-software-company-first-product's developer, I already wanted to tear my hair off because of what I heard from J6P, what I heard from my sales-and-marketing co-founder-friend and what I myself thought... V(ery)LOL

sraymond · « **Reply #37 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:27:52 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on December 06, 2003, 09:38:36 am

Quote from: RobOK on December 06, 2003, 09:33:05 am
on a lighter note, I have to tell you it took me a long time to figure out that "J6P" = Joe 6-Pack!!

LOL!!!

Happy snowy Saturday

Why do you assume he is talking about Joe? it could have been
Quote
Jane Sixpack

Or J6P, equal rights for the women

I believe the no children family unit or boy/girl is properly referred to as "Joe and Mary Six Pack." What about children?

Now who knows where this came from?

Scott-

Polonio · « **Reply #38 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:34:26 pm »

Quote from: JimH on December 05, 2003, 06:32:41 pm

This forum represents a very important group to us, but we have more than one audience to please now. If things go well, you will know a lot about this by the middle of 2004, and maybe sooner.

For now, please be patient.

I remembered a joke. I hope I will be able to explain it on english. Let's try:

That's a guy who is searching for job, so he goes into a job interview and the human resource manger tells him: "Initially, your salary will be about $600/month, but it will increase and you will be in a much better situation by the middle of 2004, and maybe be sonner. For now, please be patient". The guy answers: "OK, then I'll come back by the middle of 2004..."

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: What to expect with version 10? (Read 4840 times)

sraymond

sraymond

MachineHead

MachineHead

a2hoo

a2hoo

zevele10

MachineHead

sraymond