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[greynolds]

Last night, I had scheduled a recording of the preview of the upcoming show on USA called "Colony".  It was scheduled to be on at 11PM.  The guide indicated that it was supposed to record and it was shown in the upcoming recordings list.  But I have no recording for this in my recordings view.

I did record the show that was on prior to this on the same channel (WWE Monday Night RAW, yeah I know it's not exactly cerebral, but it can be pretty entertaining at times, so I fast forward through lots of the crap...) and have that set up to go 30 minutes past the scheduled end because they almost always go over.

Given this, did my scheduled recording of the "Colony" preview not get stored as a separate recording because it was on the same channel?  If so, I'd really like to at least have the option to save the different show in a separate file so it's easy to find later.

My recording format is set to use .ts files, if that matters.

For now, I've scheduled another showing of this preview.

[RoderickGI]

I can see why you have been posting about visibility of what's happening with recordings now!  

You should have had two TS files created, one for each show. As you are using the TS file format, you would have needed two free tuners, I believe, in order to record the two program and their padding times. (EDIT: Only one tuner is needed for two consecutive programs recorded in TS format, even when padding means there will be overlap. Clarified below by Yaobing.) Could you have run out of tuners?

If you were using the JTV file format you would have needed just one tuner, and the two programs would have been saved in the one directory, would have shared some component files, and would have each had a record created in MC. Using less tuners is one of the advantages of the JTV format. Having two programs saved into the one directory, and the restrictions that places on moving and renaming programs, is one of the disadvantages.

If that sort of missed recording happens to me the first thing I check is the Recent view of recorded programs, because that picks up everything, including TV Shows, Movies, and everything else, in case something gets tagged or named unusually. Also, the Recently Imported Smartlist shows everything imported recently, which is sometimes of help in finding "misplaced" recordings.

Did you check in that view and/or Smartlist?

[greynolds]

I can see why you have been posting about visibility of what's happening with recordings now! 

It's something I've been hoping they would add for a while now, so it's nice to see others posting about it too and figured I'd add my own 2 cents to the discussion, hoping that if more people ask for it the priority of addressing the request will go up.

You should have had two TS files created, one for each show. As you are using the TS file format, you would have needed two free tuners, I believe, in order to record the two program and their padding times. Could you have run out of tuners?

Yes, there should have been plenty of tuners available.  I've got 9 CableCard tuners and 10 OTA tuners.  I'm currently recording most things in parallel with WMC while I see how MC handles TV, but Colony was only scheduled to record in MC.  Other than that, both programs would have been recording RAW and the Bruins game, so 5 tuner should have been in use, leaving 4 free.

If you were using the JTV file format you would have needed just one tuner, and the two programs would have been saved in the one directory, would have shared some component files, and would have each had a record created in MC. Using less tuners is one of the advantages of the JTV format. Having two programs saved into the one directory, and the restrictions that places on moving and renaming programs, is one of the disadvantages.

To me, the disadvantages of the JRV format outweigh the advantages.  With ts files, it's also easy to view them with other software, should I want to.

If that sort of missed recording happens to me the first thing I check is the Recent view of recorded programs, because that picks up everything, including TV Shows, Movies, and everything else, in case something gets tagged or named unusually. Also, the Recently Imported Smartlist shows everything imported recently, which is sometimes of help in finding "misplaced" recordings.

Did you check in that view and/or Smartlist?

Yes, I checked all the relevant views and looked at the folder where recordings are stored before posting.

Given that repeat showings are available, I'm obviously not concerned about missing this 1 recording.  I'm more concerned about having no way to figure out why it didn't record.

Something else I've noticed is that my Theater View "Upcoming Recordings" view shows programs from the last ~24 hours that already finished recording while the standard view Television -> To be recorded list seems to drop things off the list as soon as the recording finishes.  Is there a way to fix that so that once a recording is done, it no longer shows up in the list?

I must say though that MC is doing a great job overall at this point with TV.  It's actually doing a better job of recording hockey games for the local team as WMC has been missing a bunch of games lately (I suspect this is because of the same bug that Yaobing recently fixed in MC's processing of the guide data where the games are incorrectly flagged as repeats).

[RoderickGI]

I thought you would have all the bases covered, but thought I would ask anyway. The extra information can only improve the response from others.

I'm not sure what your Theatre View "Upcoming Recordings" view is. There is a "To Be Recorded" list in Theatre View, which is on the sub-menu in the Guide view, but I don't know of an "Upcoming Recordings" view.

Your view isn't a custom view is it? Regardless, have a look at the "To Be Recorded" view in the Options for Theatre View, to see how it is created, and compare to your view. You will see that the selection criteria is [=TVInfo(Record)]=[1]. I assume that flag means that the program is to still be recorded, in the future.

Just to check, I just did a quick mod to my custom Guide data view, to see what the expression TVInfo(Record) returned for one of the programs I am recording. It returned 0 for all past programs, 0 for all matching programs on the wrong channel, and 1 for all the future programs on the correct channel. So it is doing what the Expression Language Wiki article says it should be doing, which is;
"TVInfo(Record)                     Returns 1 if the program is scheduled to be recorded, 0 otherwise "

Does that help?

[greynolds]

I'm not sure what your Theatre View "Upcoming Recordings" view is. There is a "To Be Recorded" list in Theatre View, which is on the sub-menu in the Guide view, but I don't know of an "Upcoming Recordings" view.

Your view isn't a custom view is it? Regardless, have a look at the "To Be Recorded" view in the Options for Theatre View, to see how it is created, and compare to your view. You will see that the selection criteria is [=TVInfo(Record)]=[1]. I assume that flag means that the program is to still be recorded, in the future.

Just to check, I just did a quick mod to my custom Guide data view, to see what the expression TVInfo(Record) returned for one of the programs I am recording. It returned 0 for all past programs, 0 for all matching programs on the wrong channel, and 1 for all the future programs on the correct channel. So it is doing what the Expression Language Wiki article says it should be doing, which is;
"TVInfo(Record)                     Returns 1 if the program is scheduled to be recorded, 0 otherwise "

Does that help?

Yeah, I've customized my views to make them look the way I want.  I'm pretty sure I only renamed this one (maybe I should put it back to "To Be Recorded" to avoid future confusion).  The selection criteria for the view is [=TVInfo(Record)]=[1], just like yours.  I just looked now and the view is currently showing 3 entries that finished recording last night.  However, in the standard view Television -> To Be Recorded list, those items do not show.

I recently modified this view to add groups to it so that I can either see the list in the default "date recorded" order or to group the items by series, as that makes it easy (for example) to verify what upcoming hockey games are going to record.  I still wish that this view would not show programs that are in the padding of a program as it clogs the list up with a lot of extra entries (I pad hockey games by a lot of extra time to handle overtimes in both the regular season and the playoffs, so I end up with a LOT of extra entries that won't actually end up as entries in the Recorded list).

[Yaobing]

Just one clarification:

When recording in TS format two consecutive programs on the same channel, you do not need two tuners.  One tuner is fine.  Two TS files should be created.

Padding in the first program should not affect the recording of the second either.  So I am puzzled.

[greynolds]

Just one clarification:

When recording in TS format two consecutive programs on the same channel, you do not need two tuners.  One tuner is fine.  Two TS files should be created.

Padding in the first program should not affect the recording of the second either.  So I am puzzled.

This is why we need some sort of recording history/logging so we can get at least hints as to what happened when things don't go as expected.

The replay of the missing program I setup to record last night recorded properly.

[RoderickGI]

I still wish that this view would not show programs that are in the padding of a program as it clogs the list up with a lot of extra entries (I pad hockey games by a lot of extra time to handle overtimes in both the regular season and the playoffs, so I end up with a LOT of extra entries that won't actually end up as entries in the Recorded list).

As per previous discussion on another thread, you convinced me on this one already. It was annoying me just yesterday actually. But having them listed as To Be Recorded did help me analyse this current problem, since it gave me more data to look at.

When recording in TS format two consecutive programs on the same channel, you do not need two tuners.  One tuner is fine.  Two TS files should be created.

Thanks for clarifying. I should have known that, but as I don't use the TS format, I forget these details. I have modified my post above for future users.

[RoderickGI]

Okay, I think you found an actual problem with the code. Or possibly what I am seeing is deliberate, but not what I expected.
Actually, I have noticed this issue before, but it wasn't important enough for me to raise, versus other issues.

Yeah, I've customized my views to make them look the way I want.  I'm pretty sure I only renamed this one (maybe I should put it back to "To Be Recorded" to avoid future confusion).  The selection criteria for the view is [=TVInfo(Record)]=[1], just like yours.  I just looked now and the view is currently showing 3 entries that finished recording last night.  However, in the standard view Television -> To Be Recorded list, those items do not show.

If you go into the "To Be Recorded" list in Standard View, and then change the Date and Time in the drop down lists to the earliest available time, do you see yesterday's recordings in there as well? I do. All recordings from all of yesterday show up in that list. Actually I am not sure if it is just showing scheduled recordings from the previous 24 hours, or all of yesterday, as I only have recordings in the evening yesterday. So it could be either.

So the records are there in Standard View, and they would be there in Theatre View.

I confirmed this using my custom Guide data view, which shows that the value of TVInfo(Record) is "1" for the recordings that were made yesterday, but is "0" for all earlier instances of the program I am recording. (The Dakar Rally!) That value should be "0" for all past recordings. Interestingly, in Standard View, if I select one of the past recordings, right click and try to Cancel the recording, I can't. The option is greyed out for all past recordings, but active for all future recordings. So MC knows that the recording is in the past and can't be cancelled.

I don't think adding Groups to your view would have made these past records show up, as they do not in the default Theatre View "To Be Recorded" list. Mind you, Groups can sometimes give unexpected results. But it is more likely that you change something in the "Set rules for display" settings for the Guide. The top level Guide item defines what will be included, as per the first attached image. The second image shows the lower level settings.

I can't say exactly what those expressions mean off the top of my head. Maybe you can. I'll have a look later and see if I can work it out, or Yaobing or someone else may explain.

[greynolds]

Okay, I think you found an actual problem with the code. Or possibly what I am seeing is deliberate, but not what I expected.
Actually, I have noticed this issue before, but it wasn't important enough for me to raise, versus other issues.

If you go into the "To Be Recorded" list in Standard View, and then change the Date and Time in the drop down lists to the earliest available time, do you see yesterday's recordings in there as well? I do. All recordings from all of yesterday show up in that list. Actually I am not sure if it is just showing scheduled recordings from the previous 24 hours, or all of yesterday, as I only have recordings in the evening yesterday. So it could be either.

So the records are there in Standard View, and they would be there in Theatre View.

I confirmed this using my custom Guide data view, which shows that the value of TVInfo(Record) is "1" for the recordings that were made yesterday, but is "0" for all earlier instances of the program I am recording. (The Dakar Rally!) That value should be "0" for all past recordings. Interestingly, in Standard View, if I select one of the past recordings, right click and try to Cancel the recording, I can't. The option is greyed out for all past recordings, but active for all future recordings. So MC knows that the recording is in the past and can't be cancelled.

I don't think adding Groups to your view would have made these past records show up, as they do not in the default Theatre View "To Be Recorded" list. Mind you, Groups can sometimes give unexpected results. But it is more likely that you change something in the "Set rules for display" settings for the Guide. The top level Guide item defines what will be included, as per the first attached image. The second image shows the lower level settings.

I can't say exactly what those expressions mean off the top of my head. Maybe you can. I'll have a look later and see if I can work it out, or Yaobing or someone else may explain.

Yes, I see the same thing in standard view if I set the date/time back far enough.

The custom rule "[TVTime]=>#TVGuideStartDate" was the key here, so that's 1 mystery solved.  I've rearranged my views from the defaults, so I have a top level group named "TV" that has subitems of "Guide", "To Be Recorded", "Recorded TV", and then some other items for recordings that have been imported from BeyondTV and Windows Media Center, as well as a group for TV programs from ripped DVD's and Blurays.  My Theater View configuration has been gradually tweaked over several versions of MC, so there are probably some new items they've added to the default views that I'm not aware of.

Something else that I'd like to see in the Theater View setup is a way to add the defaults to the items to show without disrupting what the user has customized.  That way when they add new features, the user can take a look at the new defaults and modify their custom views accordingly.

[RoderickGI]

It is still a little strange that recordings in the past are still marked as to be recorded. But if you are now getting the display you want, I guess it isn't critical. That is pretty much what I had decided previously.

Something else that I'd like to see in the Theater View setup is a way to add the defaults to the items to show without disrupting what the user has customized.  That way when they add new features, the user can take a look at the new defaults and modify their custom views accordingly.

While not exactly what you are asking for, it is easy with a new installation to temporarily turn on Options/General/Advanced/Allow multiple instances to run at one time, then open a new local library in addition to your normal Server library, and compare the two. You should even be able to cut and paste between the two if required. That should help.

Just remember to check that the "Allow multiple instances to run at one time" setting is turned off once you are finished, because you don't really want to allow that all the time. MC should not save this setting through a restart, if you run this on a PC where MC Server is running.

Also note;
0. Back up your library before you do this. (Although I just did it without backing up. Naughty me. But I didn't change anything, just looked.)
1. When you first start the second instance it will try to load the Server library, so you will be warned that the library will be started in Read Only mode. Then you can add a new local library to check new Theatre View configurations. Make sure the local library is in a new, separate location on your hard drive.
2. As there is only one MC installation, all Registry settings are shared. Careful what you change in the local library version! Best not to change anything. Don't let it start importing media either!
3. When you have finished, it is best to reboot your PC as there was probably a second copy of the MC Server service started. (I didn't check that.)
4. Once you have rebooted, don't panic when you see there is nothing in the library! MC has re-opened the last opened library, which is the local library, which should have nothing in it. Just open the main Server library again and you will be back where you started, but the Server library should have any modifications you made to the Theatre Views.

Reinstalling default views into an existing library with customised views may be a bit difficult, and/or dangerous in that it could risk breaking customisations, given the way the Theatre View views are defined.

[muzicman0]

This is probably a long show...but I recorded a show the other day, and for some reason it got tagged as audio instead of video.  Nothing I did could convince MC that it was a video file, so eventually I watched the .ts file using VLC.  The important thing for me was that the ts file was created, it just wasn't showing up in my custom views because it was tagged wrong.

Might be worth a look.

It's only happened once to me, and I kinda figured I fat fingered something somewhere, so I didn't worry about it.

[greynolds]

This is probably a long show...but I recorded a show the other day, and for some reason it got tagged as audio instead of video.  Nothing I did could convince MC that it was a video file, so eventually I watched the .ts file using VLC.  The important thing for me was that the ts file was created, it just wasn't showing up in my custom views because it was tagged wrong.

Might be worth a look.

It's only happened once to me, and I kinda figured I fat fingered something somewhere, so I didn't worry about it.

Unless it got written to a random folder on my hard drive, it just didn't write a file out as I already checked the recordings folder.

I'm less concerned about the specific show not recording (especially given that re-runs were available).  I'm more concerned about having a useful way to figure out why these things happen when they inevitably do happen.