Topic: Media Library Prototype (advice wanted) (Read 13789 times)

RemyJ · « **Reply #50 on:** June 11, 2003, 08:15:24 pm »

Well, I think I like it. How are you going to handle view schemes based on filename though? They have variable numbers of levels. Would you scan the tree and create as many panes as the deepest path needed? Dynamically create/destroy additional panes as needed? Something else?

knickelfarz · « **Reply #51 on:** June 11, 2003, 11:15:57 pm »

I would like to have a closer look at this prototype. I downloaded the 3 MB (??) exe - but instead of installing anything it just starts up the already existing MC (9.1.197 beta unregistered) ... very strange.

Any ideas how to fix this?

escaflo · « **Reply #52 on:** June 11, 2003, 11:17:22 pm »

Like i say earlier, the new library layout gets my vote. Hmm i doubt i will be able to go back to the old library.

is it possible for it to sorta remember where you were last? like if i am at the genre/album/artist view and i am at a particular album and i go to playing now, is it possible for it to remember which album i was highlighting last when i click back to genre/album/artist view? just something i thought of.

keep up the good work!

escaflo · « **Reply #53 on:** June 11, 2003, 11:22:22 pm »

Erm, you are suppose to copy the Media Jukebox.exe into your media center folder.

Run the new Media Jukebox.exe instead of the old one.. overwrite the old one with it that is.

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #54 on:** June 12, 2003, 01:05:37 am »

Sorry for getting off topic Matt. I was just very excited by the whole thing. This will be absolutely excellent especially if you add in drag and drop, column sorting and all the other things we can do now. I can't wait.

Adam

nila · « **Reply #55 on:** June 12, 2003, 03:36:56 am »

Everyone seems to love it so I'm not gonna complain - its always been a case of majority rules so go for it.

A few small points though about it though:

1. For people with lower resolutions - this is pretty much going to rule out the possibility of having more than say 2 or 3 fields for their tree - on 800x600 I cant see any more than that working. Please remember to check how it looks at these lower resolutions when designing it as it would REALLY be a shame to count people out of using MC because of lower resolutions.

2. Seeing as the tree is going to go and so your going to have to re-work the whole way it's done - now I'd imagine would be the perfect time to request the feature that there was a big discussion about a while back - creating view schemes like this:

Artist/Year - Album/Track # - Name

This would REALLY help with this new GUI as the last column could then be name and still also display additional info but more importantly could then also sort by track numbers rather than alphabetically.

3. What are you planning to do about view schemes with a large number of what used to be nodes (fields) - the new view wont be able to handle more than around 4 even at as high as 1600x1200 res.

4. Will we be able to change the view schemes in these lists from just list to icons?
For instance where I have: Artist(group by letter)/artist/album

it'd be GREAT if I could click on the list item: Aaliyah - then have all her albums displayed as thumbnails rather than just a list. If u have no plans for this dont worry, it could be a little complex I'd imagine

Great work and great ideas your coming up with. I'm sure I'll get used to this new sorting method fairly fast and then start to like it.

The only down side is that MC is starting to need a much higher resolution to be able to function nicely. With the old method it could work well even on monitors with much lower resolutions.

Jaguu · « **Reply #56 on:** June 12, 2003, 04:43:28 am »

Matt,

Quote

Seeing as the tree is going to go

What do you mean by that? Are you going to eliminate the Media Library Tree altogether?

Still don't feel comfortable with this new GUI. Too many things look uncertain and many things seem to need a big deal of rework. I also notice many inconsistencies, just one sample:

If you click on a music file you get the cover art on the bottom-left pane. If you click on an image you just get a filename instead of a thumbnail. This is really inconsistent.

I would prefer a slow, steady improvement of the GUI interface instead of such radical changes.

Also in my opinion it is more important to have a clean and consistent implementation of media type dependencies than this new GUI. Reserve it for MC10.
Whenever you make changes, you have to remember that it is not a music jukebox program any longer, it is now a media center and things should work properly for music, images, video, tv and radio and integration with all the different hardware.

According to my understanding a minor upgrade such as 9.1 should improve and perfect of what was done in the main release and not introduce big, new features or changes.

Users will buy MC9.0, love it, then upgrading thinking of kind of a bug-fix release and being confronted with a total new interface! Don't rely too much on the opinions of the forum here, these are all afictionados, think of a standard user that buys the product.
The learning curve for MC9 is quite steep and it takes time to learn all the goodies. Radical changes make the user insecure and he may think this is a product still in its experimental phase. Products need some kind of stability and reliability over long periods of time to be really accepted by the masses.

Also, this radical change was not something users in this forum asked for, they asked for improving a few things and concerning the GUI, it has been a long-standing wish of having Playing Now and Media library on concurrent screens.

Although the new GUI might be liked by many here, I do not think it is a brilliant idea to be introduced now!

Slow and small improvements are the path to perfection, perfectly working functionality, not radical changes and GUI polishing!

Sorry, but someone has to shout the opposite way!

Ingo · « **Reply #57 on:** June 12, 2003, 04:56:40 am »

Nila,

these low resolution problems made me suggest to keep the tree.... the more you walk it down, the less fields would be displayed.

Matt,
I realy love this new interface, but I still have a good relationship with the tree.... please, please keep it.

Ingo

knickelfarz · « **Reply #58 on:** June 12, 2003, 05:05:55 am »

mmmh...I saw the screenshot and was a little bit scared. After reading the posts here now I'm really afraid of something going to the wrong direction...anyhow, I would like to see that prototype with my own eyes. I reinstalled MC 9.1.196 and moved the downloaded prototype to the MC folder. Again the same happened as with MC 9.1.197...nothing! The "prototype" looks exactly the same as MC 9.1.196 / 7 ?
Ma, I wanna play with da nu stuff, too

Any ideas of what maybe wrong?

JimH · « **Reply #59 on:** June 12, 2003, 05:11:42 am »

It does look almost the same, but try opening audio in the tree. You should see two or three new panes on the right.

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #60 on:** June 12, 2003, 05:12:31 am »

Im not implying anything here

but did you check the media library? The initial load up looks exactly the same. This change only appears when you clcik media library. If you knew this ignore me and i'll go away

Adam

knickelfarz · « **Reply #61 on:** June 12, 2003, 05:37:33 am »

Argh, sorry for moaning around - naturally it works - shame on me. Those cows made me mad tonight, I think I better go for some sleep. I will examine the prototype later...maybe you would like to examine the cows?? Take a look, it's good for a laugh

snore

nila · « **Reply #62 on:** June 12, 2003, 05:51:57 am »

I kind of agree with Jagguu,
Even though I'm glad to see a GUI re-work I was really hoping to see all of the points that had been brought up on this forum dealt with in v9.1 - not a total re-work.

edited by Matt -- please keep requests for other features in a separate thread

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #63 on:** June 12, 2003, 06:14:40 am »

I beg to differ. Nobody said a point release couldn't introduce major changes. I think the new GUI design is going a long way to addressing a lot of the problems people have had. As Matt has said the new apporach allows a lot of things to be added/changed that simply would not have been possible under the old architecture. I for one would rather see innovation under the new GUI design than less features under the old. This new prototype for me appears to allow better manipulation of directory style listings, images using list groups/playlist groups and generally it is much more manageable than the tree. I say go for it. People will always baulk at changes when they have been used to something for a long time but they soon learn to get used to the new things, especially when they realise they are actually a more intuitive way of working. Then within a very short time they start saying "How did I ever work in the old way" This is human nature. I think in this case it is time to bite the bullet and move on. MC Futures is bright. MC futures is well blue atm

Adam

Wobbley · « **Reply #64 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:01:17 am »

As a software developer myself, I couldn't agree with you more Adam. We're always having to fight our current customers when we make changes demanded internally and by prospective customers from whom we are seeking new business. But the changes we make are invariably for the best, and once everyone has a chance to get acclimated to them, the number of complaints usually drops to a graphed line tangential to nonexistence...

I second Adam's thoughts...

Doof · « **Reply #65 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:04:19 am »

Well, I just created an honest 5 layer view scheme (Genre\Year\Album Artist (Auto) - with grouping (so it winds up using 2 panes)\Album.

Then I set my resolution to 800x600.

While some text is cut off, it is definitely useable. If column sizes were optimized so that they didn't take more room than necessary (like Year and the Letter Groupings), then you gain even more room back. The only problem I see with doing that is that having all of these unevenly sized columns in this context could be a little jarring, but who knows? Maybe they should give it a shot and see how it works out? Either way, it's still not bad now.

Plus, don't you all think it's a little early to be worrying that this new GUI won't address all of the issues that have been brought up in the other thread? This is only the second prototype.

Matt · « **Reply #66 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:05:42 am »

Updated the prototype again.

http://ftp://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/music/tmp/Media Jukebox.exe

(beware of IE caching -- make sure it actually takes some time to download)

Noteworthy changes:

Can in-place edit in the browser lists
Can drag browser items to anywhere else in the program or external programs
Can drop files on a browser item to assign properties

Again, no bug reports or unrelated requests please.

Keep the feedback coming. Thanks!

Doof · « **Reply #67 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:12:24 am »

What does the Reset command do?

The Dude · « **Reply #68 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:12:32 am »

I also beg to differ with you, Jaagu. Of course everyone on this board will be an afficianado, but that should make them view things another way. They will be wary of change because they've used this software in a certain way for a very long time and don't want that to change.

I see the new prototype as a big step forward for Media Center as a product because newcomers will feel much more comfortable with this new structure as opposed to "trees" and "view schemes" which can be quite unweildy to the uninitiated. I can guarantee that if a new user had to choose between the old way and this new way (provided they both worked), they would all choose this new way.

Of course there will be hiccups and many issues with a new scheme like this, but I don't see it as anything but an improvement. Old users might have to adjust the way they do things, and they may complain about it, but as a product that is trying to have mass appeal, ease of use and the user experience should hold equal weight (if not much more) than the functionality.

Matt · « **Reply #69 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:18:41 am »

Quote

What does the Reset command do?

Changes the selection to only "<all>" and scrolls to the top. They'll probably be a one click way to do this eventually.

Doof · « **Reply #70 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:27:22 am »

I wondered if that was it. I clicked it and that's all that seemed to happen, but the text "Reset" was a little intimidating.

I noticed that, despite whatever sorting I have specified, if I right click on an album name and choose Play, it only sends files to Playing Now in alphabetical order by Name. I'm sure that will be addressed in the future, but I just wanted to point it out.

I also noticed that MC is apparently only sorting 4 levels down... is that right? I'm trying to sort by Artist - Year - Album - Track # - Name, and when I click on the last one, the first one I clicked on loses it's number.

Doof · « **Reply #71 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:27:47 am »

Forgot to mention... the in-line editting is awesome.

Matt · « **Reply #72 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:31:23 am »

Quote

I also noticed that MC is apparently only sorting 4 levels down... is that right? I'm trying to sort by Artist - Year - Album - Track # - Name, and when I click on the last one, the first one I clicked on loses it's number.

No, it sorts by lots more columns if you tell it to. The GUI only displays the top 4 though -- just to be tidy.

drosoph · « **Reply #73 on:** June 12, 2003, 08:58:01 am »

Ok, I know you said no requests ... but it's related to the new GUI .. The Filename (Path) Library View has little use now .. can you make it auto-parse the drive/directories ... (allow a pref in the Edit View Scheme to determine MAX parsing, Like 6 Levels Deep)

I want to see:

Drive	Dir	Dir [/b]	Dir [/b]
C:\	MP3	Arist1	Album1
D:\	My Music	Artist2	Album2
\\MP3-Server		Artist3	Test
		Artist4

lee269 · « **Reply #74 on:** June 12, 2003, 10:07:55 am »

Hmmm, OK I think I like it. This is a big change. Its difficult to get a feeling from a quick look, but here goes:

Positive: I can see how this might almost become the legendary smartlist wizard without the dialog box. With the addition of an include/exclude marker within each column you have a graphical representation as you build your list. Itd be nice to have a 'field chooser' window to be able to drag variables into the view rather than adding view schemes.

Negative(ish): Im also a bit worried about losing the tree. Im not sure how CD/TV/Web Media etc will be accessed. But Im sure theres a way. Removing it would give you some room to play with on the left. I admit I quite like the 'where do you want to go today?' common task stuff in Win XP.

Overall I can see how this layout could be made visually intuitive for someone who has never seen MC before, especially if the default behaviour is to create a smartlist from the search bar. Heres your songs, Just press the play button and go, you never have to worry about anything else. But dig deeper and you realise that smartlists are MCs de facto mode of operation. Reminds me of Word, where you can just start typing, or learn about templates, styles, etc.

bennyd · « **Reply #75 on:** June 12, 2003, 01:22:35 pm »

What would be nice is that you have the option with the right mouse button to select "OR" or "AND" (or "INCLUDE" or "EXCLUDE")

Now by default it's "OR" if you select e.g. genre in the same view and "AND" for the next view

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #76 on:** June 12, 2003, 01:25:11 pm »

Just wondering... the right click at the moment on the column headers in the top panes brings up a list of fields but clicking on different fields doesn't seem to do anything. Is this going to be implementde to add fields in as columns? Was just wondering if it could be used to apply filters eg sorting by date for albums or filtering by a field like Album/Single(a custom field to show what type of release something is) to show just Albums?? Would something like this be possible?

Matt · « **Reply #77 on:** June 12, 2003, 02:00:19 pm »

The newest beta 9.1.198 has these updates:

Dragging onto a browser item won't auto-scroll until a little time has passed
Typed list navigation works
Location based schemes work (uses a flat tree -- double click to navigate in)
Playlist tree based scheme work
More full-featured right-click menu

We'll close this thread now. Start another thread if you'd like to talk more about it.

Thanks again for all the help.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Media Library Prototype (advice wanted) (Read 13789 times)

nila

nila