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Author Topic: Screen Flicker on Track Change  (Read 1827 times)

DoubtingThomas

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Screen Flicker on Track Change
« on: May 11, 2018, 08:46:19 pm »

MC24 seems to make my Windows 10 Pro screen flicker on any track change whether or not MC is in focus or not, or minimized to the taskbar.
Actually it flickers another toolbar program, Advanced Launcher.

http://www.alentum.com/alaunch/

MC22 did not do this.  (bought v23 but never loaded it)

I seem to remember way way back in a much earlier version this problem existed and was corrected.

Another report of flicker in another app below.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,115468.msg797982.html#msg797982
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RD James

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 02:48:55 am »

MC24 seems to make my Windows 10 Pro screen flicker on any track change whether or not MC is in focus or not, or minimized to the taskbar.
I have this too. It used to only make programs flicker when I first launched MC, but it now happens on track change.
An easy application to test is notepad with text being displayed.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2018, 07:59:22 am »

I have this too. It used to only make programs flicker when I first launched MC, but it now happens on track change.
An easy application to test is notepad with text being displayed.

That is good, the issue shows up on a main stream Windows app.  I have verified I see the issue in Notepad too.
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JimH

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2018, 08:56:12 am »

What is the connection?  HDMI?

NVIDIA?
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2018, 09:11:32 am »

What is the connection?  HDMI?

NVIDIA?

I have a NVIDIA graphics card using HDMI.  It's hard for me to understand how those things could cause flicker in some apps on a track change, also start playback and stop/pause.

This flicker did not occur in v22 (I never loaded v23), on the same PC with the same hardware.  Therefore something changed between v22 and v24 in MediaCenter.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 09:19:20 am »

Not seeing this here with a Nvidia GPU over DisplayPort.

Might wanna try the latest Nvidia drivers.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2018, 09:20:56 am »

Not seeing this here with a Nvidia GPU over DisplayPort.

Might wanna try the latest Nvidia drivers.

I have the latest Nvidia drivers.  Again, I point out, that v22 did not have this issue, while v24 does on the same hardware.
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JimH

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2018, 09:38:09 am »

It's hard to see how a user application could cause video problems with other applications.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2018, 09:41:21 am »

It's hard to see how a user application could cause video problems with other applications.

Well it does... there is a clear cause/effect when changing tracks on MC and the flicker in other apps.

I tried to find it, but I really seem to remember this issue before many years and versions ago, and Matt fixed it.

And again, no problem in v22.... so something did change in v24.

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JimH

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2018, 10:59:07 am »

I have the latest Nvidia drivers.  Again, I point out, that v22 did not have this issue, while v24 does on the same hardware.
That doesn't mean it isn't a video driver problem.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2018, 11:15:26 am »

I still have v22 loaded on my system, and I verified, no screen flickering on track change/start/stop in any app I checked that flicker with v24.  Maybe someone that has the issue with v24 and still has v23 loaded could check if v23 has the issue.

That means v22 is fine and v24 is not, on the same hardware, with all the same drivers, with the same Windows version/updates.

Therefore, something changed between v22 and v24 in the MediaCenter code or libraries to make this issue show up.  There has obviously been some change to the track change/start/stop code or a library it depends on.

So hard to remember, but again, this happened way back, years and versions ago (I started with v8), and Matt fixed it.  Maybe he might remember?

I am not the only one with the issue, and if it's a Nvidia issue, your developers should be able to duplicate it.

I had no issues with MC22 on my old PC (2010 vintage), or on my new PC I got in Feb when I loaded v22, and had the issue when I loaded v24 recently.

I would very much appreciate it if your development team could look into this and try to find a solution or work around.  The flickering is very distracting, and I may revert to using v22 since it's still loaded on my system until the issue is resolved somehow.

BTW:  the problem occurs with MC in focus or out of focus and/or when minimized.  It happens when I changed/stop/start tracks from the gui and from MC24.exe.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2018, 01:10:04 pm »

I asked a friend in DC if he has the issue:

Quote
MediaCenter 24 .... causes some programs to flicker when changing a track or start/stopping a track.  Not everyone sees the issue, but others have verified it.  Do you have v24?  Notepad shows the issue, open notepad, add some text and then watch it when you change tracks in v24, does it flicker for you?  Also, what video cable are you using?  HDMI?  DisplayPort or ??

this is his reply:

Quote
It happens on my desktop with 24 but not 23 (which I got when I prepaid for 24 and it wasn't ready). It's a single flicker as if the screen is being refreshed.

I do not have an Nvidia video card. I have Intel HD Graphics 530.  I'm using HDMI.
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RD James

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2018, 06:13:41 pm »

What is the connection?  HDMI?
NVIDIA?

NVIDIA GTX 1070 (397.64 WHQL driver) connected via DisplayPort on Windows 10 version 1803 (OS Build 17134.48)
It's not the display that flickers though, Media Center causes other applications to redraw/flicker.
It happens when starting/ending playback, changing tracks during playback, expanding/collapsing panes.

https://youtu.be/2vP98amJeco
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2018, 06:23:39 pm »

Thanks for the confirmation RD and the utube to clearly show what is happening.

There are now reports of this issue with HDMI && DisplayPort and with NVIDIA && Intel HD Graphics 530 graphics.

I'm running Windows 10 Pro version 1709 OS Build 16299.371

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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2018, 06:33:59 pm »

Odd, I still can't reproduce that... but I can reproduce it when changing skins. There also seems to be an animation window glitch of the MC window itself when going from windowed to maximized and vice versa.
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JimH

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2018, 06:35:53 pm »

Are you using anything that modifies the screen?  Windowblinds or VNC, for example.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2018, 06:37:05 pm »

Are you using anything that modifies the screen?  Windowblinds or VNC, for example.

Nothing like that here. 
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2018, 06:37:43 pm »

But here's what's most interesting... I can also reproduce the screen flicker in Notepad with MC completely closed by minimizing/minimizing a windowed File Explorer instance. So it's possible it might be a Windows bug or a driver bug.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2018, 06:40:19 pm »

Furthermore, I can reproduce the Notepad screen flicker with a File Explorer instance in a virtual machine that doesn't have MC installed.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2018, 06:41:00 pm »

But here's what's most interesting... I can also reproduce the screen flicker in Notepad with MC completely closed by minimizing/minimizing a windowed File Explorer instance. So it's possible it might be a Windows bug or a driver bug.

I can open/close minimize/maximize Windows Explorer windows with or without MC running and cannot duplicate the issue.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2018, 06:42:43 pm »

Easy to reproduce here on both the main PC and a VM - looks exactly like the video posted above, except a the flicker is quicker (maybe because of my 144hz refresh rate?). Chrome triggers it too. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if any window (that's windowed, and not maximized) when minimized/restored triggers it.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2018, 06:51:43 pm »

I am seeing that with an AMD Radeon HD 5870 on my Workstation. Windows 10 with latest updates.

But I also saw it once when I minimised Chrome, and do see it when I maximise and minimise Windows Explorer, but only if Notepad is in focus and then I maximise Windows Explorer, then minimise Windows Explorer. It is less noticeable in that case than with MC.

EDIT: I just repeated it with Chrome, when I start with Notepad in focus.

As per Awesome Donkey's posts, it looks like it is to do with a change of the in-focus app in Windows. It is just more noticeable with MC, which must be temporarily taking focus as it changes tracks.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2018, 06:52:24 pm »

Easy to reproduce here on both the main PC and a VM - looks exactly like the video posted above, except a the flicker is quicker (maybe because of my 144hz screen?). Chrome triggers it too. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if any window (windowed, and not maximized) that's minimized/restored triggers it.

Still, that issue may or may not be related to the MediaCenter issue which some can't duplicate and others can. 

Nothing I do ever causes that app flicker other than MC v24.  I see it in Notepad text, and my toolbar totally redraws on any MC track start/stop/change.  In Word or gvim, the text doesn't flicker, but the menu bar does..

We know the MC issue did not exist on my PC with v22 or v23 and started in v24.

In my case I've used v22 and v24 on the same machine, with the same hardware and drivers and Windows version.  I run v22, no issue,  I run v24 and see the issue.  A friend confirmed the same between v23 and v24.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2018, 06:57:10 pm »

As per Awesome Donkey's posts, it looks like it is to do with a change of the in-focus app in Windows. It is just more noticeable with MC, which must be temporarily taking focus as it changes tracks.

Interesting.  I get the flicker even if MC is minimized and I change tracks using MC24.exe  /Command Previous  (or next)

Still, v22 and v23 did not exhibit this flickering, so something changed in MC in v24.

Nothing flickers in Chrome as I write this reply.

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RD James

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2018, 07:01:40 pm »

But here's what's most interesting... I can also reproduce the screen flicker in Notepad with MC completely closed by minimizing/minimizing a windowed File Explorer instance. So it's possible it might be a Windows bug or a driver bug.
I can't reproduce that. It seems like that could be something caused by running inside a VM.
Only Media Center causes this for me.
 
I am seeing that with an AMD Radeon HD 5870 on my Workstation. Windows 10 with latest updates.
But I also saw it once when I minimised Chrome, and do see it when I maximise and minimise Windows Explorer, but only if Notepad is in focus and then I maximise Windows Explorer, then minimise Windows Explorer. It is less noticeable in that case than with MC.
EDIT: I just repeated it with Chrome, when I start with Notepad in focus.
As per Awesome Donkey's posts, it looks like it is to do with a change of the in-focus app in Windows. It is just more noticeable with MC, which must be temporarily taking focus as it changes tracks.
Doesn't happen with Chrome, Firefox, Edge, or other web browsers.
Make sure that whatever you are doing is not focusing/unfocusing notepad and it's running in the background all the time.
Not that focusing/unfocusing should make it flicker, but it's easier to keep things consistent.

Interesting.  I get the flicker even if MC is minimized and I change tracks using MC24.exe  /Command Previous  (or next)
Still, v22 and v23 did not exhibit this flickering, so something changed in MC in v24.
I see that too. I did get flickering when starting MC23, but I would have to install it to check whether it also happened on things like track change.
I suspect that it could be a 64-bit issue.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2018, 07:31:27 pm »

Here are some prior v21 threads about other apps flickering on v21 track changes.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,102551.msg711775.html#msg711775

which contains my v21 flickering trouble report

Quote
I updated from 21.23 to 21.35 yesterday.  I noticed that whenever the track changes, my entire desktop seems to flicker and gets redrawn.  This happens if MC is minimized or active and in-focus.

I reverted to 21.23 and the screen flicker problem is gone (whew).

I tried 21.34, no problem.

I have gone back and forth between 21.34 and 35 a few times... the problem clearly started with 21.35.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,102617.msg711897.html#msg711897

A post from Matt on 1/15/2016 where he previously fixed a problem in v21 with flickering in other apps when changing tracks from the thread link above.

Quote
Yeah, it was kind of a mystery tracking it down but it turned out to be because of the redraw code we added when resizing so that Action Windows draw after the tree is unhidden.

But the resize function is called lots and lots (like on next and previous track) and we only want it to redraw when the splitter has changed positions.

So that's what will happen next build.

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Matt

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2018, 12:31:16 pm »

I'm hoping this will be fixed in the next build.

The history entry:
Fixed: The desktop could flicker when switching tracks or playing the last track.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2018, 12:32:41 pm »

I'm hoping this will be fixed in the next build.

The history entry:
Fixed: The desktop could flicker when switching tracks or playing the last track.

Matt, as always thank you for the update and the fix.
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DoubtingThomas

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Re: Screen Flicker on Track Change
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2018, 08:58:12 pm »

I'm hoping this will be fixed in the next build.

The history entry:
Fixed: The desktop could flicker when switching tracks or playing the last track.

Matt,

I reinstalled v24 today.

Looks good, no more flicker.  Thank You. 
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