Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JimH]

We're working on an Android port.  No promises yet.

[fitbrit]

To those who might know, does that mean MC might run on an Nvidia shield? 

[Hendrik]

You can't run a UI designed for a Desktop on Android, so probably not.

[JimH]

If we get it going, and that's not certain yet, we'll probably start by using Panel for the UI.  Android means lots of screen sizes and orientations, and Panel is already a responsive design that works with those.

[fitbrit]

You can't run a UI designed for a Desktop on Android, so probably not.

I joined the thread late, so all I saw was “we are working on an Android port”. I thought he meant of MC itself.

[robt]

I joined the thread late, so all I saw was “we are working on an Android port”. I thought he meant of MC itself.

Me too. That would be the "Dream team" Nvidia Shield and MC...

[JimH]

I joined the thread late, so all I saw was “we are working on an Android port”. I thought he meant of MC itself.

That is what I meant, but the interface obviously won't work on most Android devices, so we'll have MC inside and something else outside.

Sorry to be vague, but we're still exploring possibilities.  In another month, we should have a better idea.

[JimH]

There are devices that it would run on.  I've been using a PixelBook for the last few months:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114616.0.html

It runs the ChromeOS, but that OS can now run Android apps.  I've installed and used Gizmo on it, for example.  So maybe it is possible to get the MC interface or much of it working on some devices.

It's also possible that ChromeOS and Android will merge.

[tyler69]

JimH, have you considered OS fragmentation and the possible implications for the maintenance? Here's a link for reference: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/
Regarding fragmentation, I would assume that iOS would be the better choice.

[muzicman0]

I would love to have a 'theater view' like client app for Android TV.  Something that allows for live TV playback, as well as my video/audio library, but in a nice looking interface.  Panel just doesn't do it for me, but that is just my opinion.

[JimH]

Panel just doesn't do it for me ...

Any particular reason?

[JimShy]

There are devices that it would run on.  I've been using a PixelBook for the last few months:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114616.0.html

It runs the ChromeOS, but that OS can now run Android apps.  I've installed and used Gizmo on it, for example.  So maybe it is possible to get the MC interface or much of it working on some devices.

It's also possible that ChromeOS and Android will merge.

+1 on focusing on ChromeOS, given the amount of interest and pace of change here, would like to see what MC would look like on a chromebook or chromebox!

[tzr916]

I would love to have a 'theater view' like client app for Android TV.  Something that allows for live TV playback, as well as my video/audio library, but in a nice looking interface.  Panel just doesn't do it for me, but that is just my opinion.

100%

Any particular reason?

If necessary, I wouldn't mind if the Android port looks like Panel, but I can't use Panel because:
1. Transcoding video loads the Server down tremendously.
2. No method to choose USER (View>User).

[muzicman0]

Any particular reason?

There is a significant difference in Theater View and Panel...case in point, I have attached 2 images, 1 from Panel, and 1 from Theater view. 

[JimH]

You're looking at videos?  The difference is mainly the image?

[muzicman0]

There is a significant difference in Theater View and Panel...case in point, I have attached 2 images, 1 from Panel, and 1 from Theater view.

And before anyone says this is subjective to preference, there is no Season and Episode info, no description, no info whatsoever.  It's just (again, in my opinion) unusable as a replacement for Theater View.  Also, I don't see a way to be able to watch live TV...and last but not least, I would need a custom view to be able to show 'Recorded TV' and 'Series' in a different view like I have now in Theater View.

[muzicman0]

You're looking at videos?  The difference is mainly the image?

Yes, 99% of my use of JRiver is video.

[JimH]

It's funny how any discussion turns to feature requests so quickly.

[muzicman0]

Very true.  I work for a software company, so completely understand.  At the end of the day though, I can continue using PC's as my clients, but I would LOVE an Android client that works the same.  I was mostly just stating what I would want to make an Android client usable for me.  What you do with that info is completely up to you!

And...in all fairness, you did ask for the reasons why Panel didn't work for me.

[JimH]

I'm grateful for your reply.  There was another just above you.

I think we'll be doing well to get this to the useful stage anytime soon.  Perfect may come later.

[fitbrit]

Me too. That would be the "Dream team" Nvidia Shield and MC...

I believe that the Shield is the least expensive way for 4K HDR to be played. Plex, Kodi etc. run on the Shield, but I am reluctant to get one until MC can run on it, if ever. If the Samba support on the Shield were better, I would use that, but apparently there are some issues with it.
MC and the Shield might truly be the DreamTeam, but I have never actually used a Shield. Anyone here have one?

[muzicman0]

That is what I use.  Love it. 

[fitbrit]

That is what I use.  Love it.

Cool!
I might have to ask some questions in a thread in the appropriate forum(s)

[Awesome Donkey]

I believe that the Shield is the least expensive way for 4K HDR to be played.

Well, there are "Android TV" boxes between $50 to $100 that run both Plex and Kodi and playback 4K HDR content just fine. I'm using one right now for this purpose, the T95Z Plus. The only caveat versus a true/genuine Android TV box like the Nvidia Shield TV is 4K Netflix isn't supported on non-official Android TV boxes. Personally, I'd use the TV Netflix app for that so it isn't an issue for me. Nonetheless, if 4K Netflix isn't a deal breaker, I'd certainly recommend looking at one of those under $100 Android TV boxes.

Only reason I didn't go for the Shield TV is a) I don't use a Nvidia GPU anymore, so Nvidia GameStream is useless for me and b) I just couldn't justify the price versus the other solutions out there. The Shield TV is certainly is the 'best' Android TV box on the market, that's for sure, but for 4K HDR content you certainly don't need it (unless 4K Netflix, of course). Though I might get one in the future after the next revision is released.

[cncb]

To all of those interested in Android TV, I just added Android TV support to my app (see signature).  It is just preliminary video support for now, but I test on a Shield TV and it works pretty well as an MC client.

[Awesome Donkey]

To all of those interested in Android TV, I just added Android TV support to my app (see signature).  It is just preliminary video support for now, but I test on a Shield TV and it works pretty well as an MC client.

On a "non-genuine" Android TV box, the app works with music and everything too. The *only* issue I can't scroll up or down using the included remote (using the up and down or left/right buttons on it) - instead I have to use my wireless mini keyboard/touchpad and scroll with the touchpad. Other than that, I've been streaming music to my TV via your app for about a month now.

[cncb]

On a "non-genuine" Android TV box, the app works with music and everything too.

Now you can get a "genuine" box, and not have to use the mobile interface on your tv .

[fitbrit]

Can the Shield, or any other Android box see shared drives from a Windows PC?
Or should I ask whether some of the 4K UHD Media players on the Shield or other Android box can see shared drives from a Windows PC?
I do not want to play video over DLNA, or convert audio. Ideally, the box will "see" video files on the network and play them locally.
This functionality is one of the great things about MC's client- library server model.

[fitbrit]

To all of those interested in Android TV, I just added Android TV support to my app (see signature).  It is just preliminary video support for now, but I test on a Shield TV and it works pretty well as an MC client.

It looks amazing - with tcp commands, I should be able to control my X10 lighting and electrical outlets too. I will have to look into trying it one of these months!

[jmone]

Thanks cncb.  The nvidia Shield TV just got officially launched in Oz, but local stores don't get stock till the coming week Looking forward to having a play with one and comparing it to the NUC HTPC builds.  I've never been interested till now due to lack of MC support. 

[fitbrit]

That is what I meant, but the interface obviously won't work on most Android devices, so we'll have MC inside and something else outside.

Sorry to be vague, but we're still exploring possibilities.  In another month, we should have a better idea.

Thanks for the official word, Jim. I was just thinking that since the Shield is a set-top box, it would be connected to TVs, probably just like MC is these days for many people. Therefore, if you were to port MC (Theater View client at least), you could get away with support a handful of resolutions - 720p, 1080p, 4k, and a few in between.

[robt]

I have a Shield and it replaced my NUC6 as I was starting to mess with 4k - I have a 4k android Sony TV.

Although the Shield largely duplicates the on board capabilities of the tv, its very noticeable how much more processing power the Shield has. Its played everything back I've thrown at it and without any fuss. I believe it to be a far more capable streamer than the NUC and only about half the price. Being able to use it as an MC client will be the icing on the cake.

The main difference I've found with the Android tv (which has a Mali processor) is the tv can struggle playing back 1080p AVC files where as the Tegra X1 in the Shield has no such issue. Both play H264 hd and H265 UHD inc HDR without issue.

[rec head]

I'm jumping in to say I'd love MC on a Shield.

[mattkhan]

If the UI is panel (js/html) then what does it mean for it to be MC underneath? I don't understand this as MC generally refers to the UI which has a variety of complex functionality. If you remove access to this by using the simple ui then it is just another player. What am I missing?

[JimH]

I don't want to debate the merits of our approach, but just a few things:

Database management
Decoding of most files
DLNA
Remote control

You could, for example, use an old phone to feed a receiver, play any file to it, and control it with JRemote or Gizmo.

You could use it as a miniature server.

I don't know exactly where we're going, but since most of the Android devices out there have screens of less than 5 inches, we aren't going to put the whole MC interface on them.

I think eventually Android will grow capabilities and compete more directly with traditional desktop OS's.

[TheShoe]

Any particular reason?

it is browser dependent.   had it been designed native iOS and Java (android) it could be an awesome client for the shield tv or any number of android based and ios devices

as it stands, panel remains limited to tablets or phones with a browser.

props however for the continued improvements!!   i do find myself using it more and more for local playback to my ipad and iphone.  still prefer jremote for controlling the MC HTPC

-

as for MC running on Android - not very interested and don’t get the point if (as i suspect) all most of us need is a client that can run on many devices.

get Panel on an Apple TV or Shield TV or (insert android box here) and you’re golden

i dont think MC is the limiting factor here....

[Awesome Donkey]

What you're describing is what JRemote already does, it's a native iOS/Android MC remote client app. Panel on the other hand is a client meant for any device that has a (modern) web browser, which is the majority of devices out there now these days. There's devices out there where JRemote/Gizmo can't be run on, but neither can MC. A good example being those Windows 10 S (ARM) devices that are locked down to Microsoft Store apps. You can use Panel in the Microsoft Edge browser on those platforms and it should work just fine as a client.

Also, it's worth pointing out that Panel should already work on an Apple TV and a Nvidia Shield TV through their web browsers.

[JimH]

it is browser dependent.

A lot of apps are now.  Gmail, for instance.  Everything on Google Drive.  Etc.

I used to be a skeptic about this, but I think it's one of the main avenues for development now.  Write Once Run Anywhere.

as it stands, panel remains limited to tablets or phones with a browser.

Don't they all have browsers now?  Or maybe you mean "not for computers".  It's definitely for computers.  I think Panel will probably work on a touch screen TV when we have one.

props however for the continued improvements!!   i do find myself using it more and more for local playback to my ipad and iphone.  still prefer jremote for controlling the MC HTPC.

It isn't meant to replace JRemote.

as for MC running on Android - not very interested and don’t get the point if (as i suspect) all most of us need is a client that can run on many devices.

As I said above, I think Android will eventually evolve into a Windows or OSX competitor.  It may also merge with ChromeOS.  I don't know exactly where it's going, but I don't want JRiver to be left behind.

[JimH]

The MC engine itself can be separated from the UI.  They don't have to be the same program.  You can run MC now, using Panel, when both are on the same machine.  Just type https://localhost:52199 in your browser on a machine where MC or Media Server are running.

This idea (separation of elements) has been around since 1984, when X11 was begun at MIT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System

One piece has the internal engine, the other the display.  MC and JRemote are an example of this.

[dtc]

For you client/server fans, note that in an X Windows system, the system with the screen is the server. After all, the screen is the limited resource that is  "serving" information to the user.  The database is the client - which needs a server to get its information to the user.

I remember trying to explain this to people when X was introduced and they all thought that I did not understand client/server. In fact, they did not understand the thinking of a graphics person.

[mattkhan]

I don't want to debate the merits of our approach

It is more a question of understanding what the approach is.

A greater, and more clearly defined, separation between client and server would be a v good thing imv and this sounds like it might go in that direction so gets a thumbs up from me. For example if you don't have the MC ui but you do have a server then it feels like a lot of configuration is no longer accessible as well as certain functionality being missing entirely (convert format springs to mind). Another example perhaos it becomes possible to save client config separately from the library and then "send" that to some remote client.

[JimH]

It is more a question of understanding what the approach is.

It's not clear yet.  Very few desktop applications have ever been ported to Android.  We're doing discovery work right now.

[JustinChase]

For what it's worth, my ideal "Android Port" would look like this, at least.

An MC app I can install on my phone or tablet, that functions as a fully featured media player, which can take advantage of my MC server, but (maybe?) doesn't have to.  I want it to be able to play media on my phone/tablet, and not be required to connect to my (impossibly slow and data capped satellite internet) home media server.

I want to use my smartlists, and be able to rate my music on my phone without any connection to the server/library, and have it sync either whenever it does have connection, or when I resync the phone physically at the house.

I want to be able to share my playlists, smartlists and/or views with the android player while syncing to the library.  I don't want all my lists/views to go, I want to pick one or 2 or 3 to use on the player.  I DO NOT want to have to manually re-create another view in another place another time to be managed separately, like all the other places one needs to handle views in MC.  I understand the reasoning you all do it this way, but hate it, and don't bother with setting up views I would like because it's a constantly changing maintenance problem I'd rather avoid.   /rant.

I hope your plans align with my ideal situation, and I'd be happy to test anything you have ready.

[Castius]

Good to hear this is coming along. I look forward to it.

[hoyt]

I like this idea and look forward to seeing requirements start to build.  It might be difficult deciding what to include/ exclude from the GUI because one android can have a 5" screen, while another is 12"'

[robt]

I like this idea and look forward to seeing requirements start to build.  It might be difficult deciding what to include/ exclude from the GUI because one android can have a 5" screen, while another is 12"'

And then there's Android TV.....

[Hilton]

Thanks Jim I'm excited about the prospect of a client/server capable version of MC running on Android.

My key reasons for wanting it are to be able to load an MC compatible client/server on my Sony OLED Android TV with a theatre view type 10 foot interface. (and Nvidia Shield for other TVs around the house)
To play back audio and video files direct from MC server without transcoding.
To play back 4K HDR files direct with meta-data intact to auto switch HDR and resolution modes in TV.
Use existing TV remote or Harmony programmable remote.

Why?
The motion handling of the latest TV's is brilliant, the upscaling engines on most of them is also now close to MadVR, particularly the X1 Extreme in the Sony.
It's simple for the whole family to navigate and use with enough media info available without being overwhelming. (when using theatre view)

I want built in Google Assistant.

In our house we all extensively use Google Assistant to tell TV's, Google speakers and devices what to play, the need for keyboard input is minimal, with most tasks being accomplished with a voice command and then a couple navigation clicks to select the appropriate content for playback on TV. (even my 7 year old daughter has mastered this - at my dismay sometimes - as good as MJ is, you can only listen to so much... Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it, No one wants to be defeated)

It's too expensive and clumsy maintaining 4K HDR windows 10 HTPC clients compared to using built-in Android TV or Nvidia Shield.

I'd be happy with Panel as a first gen interface, the most important feature to implement is infinite scroll, loading just the info needed for the current screen, while allowing a right-left-up-down navigation without having to move to a seperate navigation control to change pages.

In a perfect world I'd like theatre view functionality with a media info preview for filetype, resolution, audio format as you highlight each file. (in a modern interface) but understand that will take quite some time.

I'll donate an Nvidia Shield to development it if helps!

Cheers
H

[RoderickGI]

I was thinking along the lines that Hilton has just described: A full JRiver Media Center Theatre View Client running on my 2016 Sony 4K Android TV, driven mostly by an IR remote.

But also, I can connect a wireless keyboard and mouse to my Sony TV. So I could do more advanced navigation using either or both of those, if the interface allowed. I could even drive the Standard View interface if it was available.

If this was delivered, I could move the HTPC and all its noisy drives out to say my office, or somewhere else out of the way in the house, and then do all MC maintenance there. Currently, I need to do some (lots actually) maintenance in the loungeroom at the HTPC, which is annoying.

I could add new Android TVs anywhere, install the MC Android Client, and immediately be up and running. Cool.

There would be no need to IdPi, NUCs, etc. connected to any TV in order to get the full Theatre View experience, so far, far less maintenance, particularly as a NUC running Windows 10 is still pretty much a requirement for video in Theatre View, and a NUC running an iGPU still has issues with the latest video formats & resolutions.

The only issue I see immediately with that is that audio out from my TV would still need to drive a Receiver/Amp with multichannel audio. But the TV supports 2 channels analogue (headphone etc.) out, 2 channel PCM or multichannel encoded digital audio via a TOSLink, plus the Audio Return Channel (ARC) HDMI connection, which may or may not work if the TV was playing media using a local Android app. For any "satellite TVs" in rooms other than my loungeroom, audio could probably just be played using the TV speakers, but in the main viewing room, I want real surround sound.

While the TV is capable of playing 4K HDR video, and all older formats, I'm not sure an Android app running on it would have full access to play the original file formats. Something for somebody else to work out. 


I haven't really warmed to the Panel interface, but that is probably due to a lack of "Theatre View" style views being provided out of the box. I am thinking the Series/Season/Episode views for TV programs, Movie views, and Audio Artist/Album/Track type views, in addition to playlist views etc. I'm not really a fan of lists type views within Theatre View, such as come with Panel.

Of course, I could customise the Panel views to replicate the existing Theatre View views, but it would be nice if that was already done, and included in Panel for everyone, if they actually worked. 

[JimH]

I haven't really warmed to the Panel interface, but that is probably due to a lack of "Theatre View" style views being provided out of the box. I am thinking the Series/Season/Episode views for TV programs, Movie views, and Audio Artist/Album/Track type views, in addition to playlist views etc. I'm not really a fan of lists type views within Theatre View, such as come with Panel.

If you'll start a thread and provide more details on exactly what you want, we'll take a shot at it.

[tjobbins]

And before anyone says this is subjective to preference, there is no Season and Episode info, no description, no info whatsoever.  It's just (again, in my opinion) unusable as a replacement for Theater View.  Also, I don't see a way to be able to watch live TV...and last but not least, I would need a custom view to be able to show 'Recorded TV' and 'Series' in a different view like I have now in Theater View.

I would desperately love an Android port to run on one of my several Android TV boxes (ie basically like the Shield, but there are cheaper and more customisable options available.)

The key requirement for me, as others are saying, is a decent Theatre View interface.  Just Theatre View as it is now would be fine - and I'd think not too hard to bring over, as it works already on Linux and Android also supports OpenGL?

As musicman says, Panel doesn't really cut it for me right now.  It's inferior to simply accessing MC through DLNA (eg using Kodi on Android as the client) in that little or no metadata is visible. 

Another key requirement from my point of view is the ability to specify local decoding - again something that Panel doesn't currently do, I believe.  A key feature of Android TV boxes are that they can decode most file types (h264, h265, etc), often at up to 4K.   Having to have everything decoded on an MC server, as Panel does it now, is very undesirable for this use case.

I do realise that the priority right now is just getting it running on Android, but hopefully feedback on likely use is of some help.

In a nutshell, I'd love to run MC natively on Android boxes connected to a TV, and stop needing Kodi as a DLNA client - which is deficient in several ways - but in order to achieve that I would need:
* Local decode capable
* A decent "10 foot" UI with full metadata support and customisable views, eg as Theatre View is now.

As and when MC on Android can do that, I for one would be more than happy to purchase it separately (in addition to my existing Master license) via Google Play or directly.   I'd consider a completely new platform and its associated porting costs enough justification to buy it separately, especially given the cost savings of being able to use <$60 Android boxes versus full fledged HTPCs (at least on secondary TVs.)

Anyway, very excited to hear that it's being worked on.  I'd be more than happy to beta test any future releases, and have a variety of Android devices and versions on which I could do so.

PS. I should add that I also have an Android phone and would very likely use MC on that as well, in what I imagine is the current 'expected' use of it.  Ie finger-operated Panel usage, transcoded from a server, to allow me portable access to my music and video library.   I like the idea of making my MC server internet-accessible so I can access my entire library on the train, 4G permitting.   However that's less important to me than having it work on an Android TV box for HTPC use in place of a DLNA client.