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Author Topic: Multichannel Buffering Issues  (Read 5607 times)

TopDownDriver

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Multichannel Buffering Issues
« on: November 12, 2018, 07:28:55 pm »

Why does the latest version of JRiver "usually" buffer multichannel files?  Let me first say this only occurs about 80% of the time.  20% of the time it does not.  Sometimes, it will also stop the track in the middle, as if the buffer has run out, and then resume.

This did not happen with JRiver 21.

So note the following:

Happens when HD is directly connected (so not a networking issue)
All Memory features are TURNED OFF in JRiver
Buffers are set to maximum size
Happens with FLAC or WMA Multichannel files (not format dependent)
Can take up to 2 minutes to buffer a track
Does not ALWAYS buffer the same file

As mentioned, this did not happen on a previous version.  What's up or what setting should I check for?

Ideas?
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jrobbins

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2018, 02:34:06 pm »

Tell us about your network connection to the device playing your multichannel files. My experience is that wireless does not work well for multichannel files, be they 24/44.1 or DSF multichannel files. I use a MoCA network at home (ethernet over cable TV lines) and that moves the signal with all the resolution I need throughout the entire three level home. Buffering in the past? Yes. Buffering any longer? No.  JCR
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2018, 04:56:14 pm »

As I said, it is not a network issue as this happens when a HD is attached via USB 3.0.

The network is Gigabit wired.
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2018, 08:32:20 am »

Can no one from JRiver respond to this question?  It makes playing multichannel files almost impossible.

BTW: I have tried this on two different systems now, with the same results.
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JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2018, 08:40:55 am »

Multichannel files are bigger, so the possibilities are ...

Bandwidth
CPU
or
Antivirus
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2018, 08:55:53 am »

Bandwidth High Enough
CPU is 8th Generation i7
No Antivirus installed.

CPU Processing goes through the roof.  This is INTERNAL to JRiver.  Just wondering if there is a setting to correct this?
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JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2018, 08:58:31 am »

If you're using Win10, check Windows Defender. 
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2018, 09:07:41 am »

Recommended Defender settings which would affect this?
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mwillems

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2018, 09:49:06 am »

Have you experimented with lower buffer sizes?  I know its counter intuitive, but I've often experienced paradoxically poor results with very large buffer sizes.  It might be worth a try to see if issues improve with smaller buffers.
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blgentry

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2018, 05:01:34 pm »

What is your audio playback device?  Sound card, USB DAC, network based device, etc.  There have been a LOT of changes to DLNA (network) based playback devices between MC21 and now.

Brian.
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2018, 05:09:23 pm »

Experimenting with lower buffer.  No definitive answer yet.

As for playback, Multichannel LDPCM over HDMI to a Theta Casablanca Processor.
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blgentry

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2018, 07:36:39 pm »

You mentioned the CPU "goes through the roof".  How much CPU utilization are you seeing?  How does that compare to playing a 2 channel file?

Windows Defender does do weird stuff with MC.  You might read this wiki article about it and see if it can help you:

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Taming_Windows_Defender

Good luck.

Brian.
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2018, 09:50:55 pm »

CPU is only at 30% - but compared to 5% with 2 channel.

Will check Defender
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2018, 06:11:56 pm »

Multichannel Files (both FLAC and WMA Lossless)
EITHER over wired gigabit ethernet or when connected directly via USB 3.0 HD
BUFFER - for as much as 3 minutes when loading - occasionally dropping out and buffering again during playback
NO Anti-Virus on system (Defender appropriately configured)
HDMI audio output
Brand New Windows 10 installation

DOES NOT OCCUR WITH FOOBAR2000 or GROOVE MUSIC!!!

Various settings for Buffer, Play from Memory, SOX on and off have been tried - NO DIFFERENCES!

Convinced this is a BUG in JRiver at this point.  Can anyone please point me in the direction of any other ideas as to how to try to fix this?

Thank You
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JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2018, 06:29:24 pm »

Possibilities I can think of are:

Marginal CPU.  You could run a benchmark under MC Help and paste the results here.

Antivirus isn't configured correctly.  There is a thread here on Windows Defender.  Link above.

Are you certain you're actually getting multi-channel output from other players?

All caps won't help get attention.

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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2018, 06:45:32 pm »

i7 CPU - I will post benchmark in next post.
Output is into a Theta Casablanca - it reads Multichannel LDPCM for the other players as well.
Will review Defender configuration to be 100% certain and let you know.

Sorry about ALL CAPS.  Not trying to get attention, just trying to highlight key points in the post.

Thanks
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JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2018, 06:49:53 pm »

Do you have another device to play to?  Just to compare?

And this is completely strange:
Quote
BUFFER - for as much as 3 minutes when loading

That suggests that MC can't read the file.  Some problem with disk, the file, antivirus, etc.
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JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2018, 06:53:09 pm »

It would be interesting to test with an older version of Windows. 

My guess is antivirus.
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2018, 09:44:40 am »

Checked Defender is set up as specified (Version of Media Center changed as appropriate).

Benchmark Results:

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 4.538 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.797 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 1.510 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.958 seconds
Score: 1938

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 2.440 seconds
    Flood filling... 0.531 seconds
    Direct copying... 0.677 seconds
    Small renders... 1.321 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 1.218 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 0.686 seconds
Score: 3201

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.192 seconds
    Populate database... 0.955 seconds
    Save database... 0.141 seconds
    Reload database... 0.080 seconds
    Search database... 1.996 seconds
    Sort database... 0.892 seconds
    Group database... 0.820 seconds
Score: 4236

JRMark (version 23.0.104 x64): 3125
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JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2018, 09:49:57 am »

That's about an average machine, not a powerhouse.  It seems low for an i7.

Is there any extra processing going on?  If you haven't done so, turn off all DSP in the DSP Studio.
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Matt

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2018, 09:56:39 am »

As a test, try enabling the memory playback feature:
Options > Audio > Memory playback > Load full file (not decoded) into memory

Does that cause it to just wait a while to buffer at the start of a track, but then play successfully?  That would be my expectation.

You then could even switch to the loading of the full album.  That way there's no disk I/O happening while playback runs.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2018, 09:58:43 am »

Will give it a go and report back.
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kr4

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2018, 10:01:35 am »

That's about an average machine, not a powerhouse.  It seems low for an i7.
Yes.  It seems low for a "CPU is 8th Generation i7."
My 7th gen i7 player running JRiver Benchmarks are:
Math: 2542 (Yours: 1938)
Image: 8698 (3201)
Database: 5930 (4236)
JMark:  5677 (3125)
and I very rarely ever get to 20% CPU usage with 24/352.8 MCH files.  I also used an 8thgen i7 with similar values.

Is your system doing something else?  Are all cores at work?
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Kal Rubinson
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Spike1000

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2018, 10:03:58 am »

That's about an average machine, not a powerhouse.  It seems low for an i7. [3125]

I get 3377 from a 2018 i7 laptop. In fact it varies from 32xx to 34xx.

Spike

JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2018, 10:11:22 am »

Mine is 4240 from a two year old i7 6820HQ.

It might be worth checking the power settings.

I'm still puzzled by the 2 minute delay in loading the file.  It just points to trouble loading the file.  Which is something antivirus software can do.
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 10:26:50 am »

Alright, made all changes and confirmed settings in Defender.
Playing straight and from Memory (full file decoded and un-decoded)
Changed to a smaller file "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"

Time to load in J River - 1 minute 29 seconds  (also, song stopped in middle and rebuffered - did not time how long)

Time to load in Foobar2000 - 1 second

Time to load in Groove Music - 3 seconds

BTW: Benchmark was taken remotely over Splashtop - so might affect the numbers slightly.

Anything else I can try?
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JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2018, 10:34:05 am »

This is consistent with what you might see if antivirus excluded one application but not another.

You might put a monitor on the machine so you can eliminate Splashtop as a factor.

MC uses 3D drawing in some areas (Theater View) and that could be a problem for a remote desktop type program.
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2018, 10:41:31 am »

Splashtop not a factor - only used for Benchmark so that I could cut and paste results into my post.

Everything else is done.
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JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2018, 10:53:40 am »

Did you turn off all DSP?
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2018, 10:55:51 am »

Yes.  No DSP effects.
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2018, 11:46:18 am »

Anything else you would like me to try?

Happy to send any logs/reports to get to the bottom of this.

Thanks
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Matt

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2018, 12:21:36 pm »

Please send a log showing playback starting and stalling.  I'm matt at jriver.

I have no idea if it might provide a clue, but I'd be happy to look.

Thanks!
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2018, 12:30:09 pm »

Played a few files.  Long Buffering before last track.  Did not play enough to drop during playback, but assuming issue is same.

Hope you find something.
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Matt

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2018, 12:45:32 pm »

It starts playing but then something just keeps importing more WMA files.  Maybe turn off auto-import as a test and post another log?
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2018, 12:52:24 pm »

Here you go.  No difference in behavior.
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Matt

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2018, 12:55:46 pm »

Will you try turning off Media Network (Options > Media Network) and post another log?
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2018, 01:05:59 pm »

Here you go.
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Matt

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2018, 01:10:34 pm »

Here you go.

I'm not sure Media Network is off.

There are still log statements like this:
2736328: 5536: Reader: CWinINetReader::Open: Opening http://192.168.0.55:1541/2555a64d-5b27-4dff-b465-dd370436edb6/urn:upnp-org:serviceId:AVTransport
2722078: 4808: Sharing Plugins: CHTTPListenerWorker::HandleRequest: UDP: 192.168.0.28: NOTIFY: http://239.255.255.250:1900*
2740734: 7140: Reader: CWinINetReader::Thread: url: http://192.168.0.55:1541/2555a64d-5b27-4dff-b465-dd370436edb6/urn:upnp-org:serviceId:AVTransport
etc.

Are you sure you got it off and grabbed a fresh log?

Thanks!
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2018, 01:27:34 pm »

A new clean one in case I sent an older one by mistake.
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Matt

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2018, 01:30:55 pm »

It still has a pile of Media Network stuff.

I'm really riddled.

Here's the log statements:
2720422: 14072: Reader: CWinINetReader::Open: Opening http://192.168.0.55:1541/2555a64d-5b27-4dff-b465-dd370436edb6/urn:upnp-org:serviceId:AVTransport
2720672: 9484: Sharing Plugins: CHTTPListenerWorker::HandleConnection: Start
2720812: 9484: Sharing Plugins: VHTTPMessage::Write: Wrote 0 bytes
2721734: 12624: Sharing Plugins: CUDPSocketReader::Accept: Start

The check box to turn it off is Options > Media Network > Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA

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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2018, 01:34:38 pm »

Here you go.
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Matt

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2018, 01:40:32 pm »

Could you manually reset your log and try again?  Because there were definitely Media Network things in your last log.

Thanks!
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2018, 01:47:32 pm »

Maybe try disabling Media Network under MC's Options > General > Features?
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2018, 04:49:24 pm »

Reset Log.
Disabled Media Network under MC's Options > General > Features
Turned off Media Network (Options > Media Network)
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Matt

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2018, 04:57:01 pm »

I'm kind of stumped because there are still Media Network events in your log.

You could try turning off:
Options > General > Features > TV
Options > General > Features > Podcasts

And post another log, but there just isn't that much happening and it's still lagging.

Make sure you're playing a file from a local drive as well instead of from \\HOMESERVER\.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2018, 05:06:00 pm »

Sure.  Changes made.

File from NAS and from Local Drive (internal SATA III)
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Matt

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2018, 05:37:46 pm »

Have you tried uninstalling your anti-virus?  If not, please give it a go.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2018, 05:43:27 pm »

No Anti-virus installed and Windows Defender basically as disabled as it can get.
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JimH

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2018, 05:46:29 pm »

No Anti-virus installed and Windows Defender basically as disabled as it can get.
That is antivirus.  Don't assume it's not the problem.  The topic on it has lots of details and would be worth a re-read.
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TopDownDriver

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Re: Multichannel Buffering Issues
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2018, 05:49:58 pm »

Read all the threads and followed them.  Double-checked.  Defender is as disabled as it can be.

Again, other software is not affected and playback is fine.  I am fairly certain that this is something in the JRiver engine itself.
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