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Author Topic: Who do we love?  (Read 8435 times)

JimH

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Who do we love?
« on: August 11, 2019, 06:54:18 pm »

I'm putting this here because I'm not ready for it to be public. 

I'd like to find a group of companies in our space to work more closely with or even to merge with.  I'm interested in whether you find the idea worthwhile, and if so, who?

Here are a few I think of.

DBPowerAmp
Foobar
Radio Paradise
Silicondust
Plex
Bubble
madVR
Soundspectrum
Sound United (Denon, Marantz, Polk, etc.)

Thanks.
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jmone

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2019, 08:17:34 pm »

My 2cents:
- Existing Partners:  I personally like how MC works with both madVR and Silicondust and I'm sure closer ties could help but I'm not sure what you would get that you don't already have.
- 3rd Party Tools used to fill gaps: This is the one I think has the most promise.  There are a range of 3rd Party apps used by the community to fill gaps but the lack of integration makes them pretty user unfriendly.  You mention Bubble (gives us Chomecast Support), and others like Rogue Amoeba's Airfoil gives us Airplay, Chromecast, Sonos support.  Integration of these as core, or add ins would be great as you open up just about all traditional networked speakers.  At present these act as bridges so you have to control both MC, and the Bridge to get to the speaker. 
- Assistants?:  Everywhere you look there is an Google, Alexa, etc enable thingo ...  Don't know if it will last but it does seem to have more legs that
- JRiver Inside:  Looking at the speaker / AVR etc market, they all run some Media Renderer but I have no idea who makes it.  Is there a market to put JRiver on these devices?
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jmone

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2019, 08:32:24 pm »

Content Provision:  The other end of the chain is the Content Provision.  I know this is not easy but as the years have gone on, the ability to interact with Content Providers from within MC has shrunk, yet there has been an explosion of devices including cheap "TV Boxs (aka Roku)" where you can add apps for all the Audio and Video apps from the online providers all in one UI.  How do the likes of these HW providers get access to all of these and could JRiver not do the same thing?

This to me is the biggest area to think about.  I've seen over the decade+ that I've used MC, the consumption content via MC is now down to mostly accessing our ripped BD's/UHD and some TV, or to push some stream to a speaker as background music.  The Kids (now adults I guess!) consume vast amounts of content but it is on-line stuff.  Even the TV Viewing is shifting from Cable/TV to IP delivered streams via Apps in the TV/AVR/Roku style boxes rather than from HTPC/MC.
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fitbrit

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2019, 08:38:59 pm »

Wow, this was unexpected, but could be promising.
dBpoweramp is a good one - the metadata resources are better than MC's, I think.

Radio Paradise - I know that many customers like this streaming service.
Soundspectrum - Might be nice to have their visualisations as an integrated part of MC.
MadVR - working even more closely with Madshi would be most welcome.
Plex -  I think some of its GUI could be good, but there's not much that MC doesn't do that Plex does, I think

The others on your list are ones that I do not know too well. I do have the same questions as jmone - what do you get out of a merge rather than a stronger partnership, for example?
Additional ones to consider:

MakeMKV (decryption, ripping)
MusicBrainz Picard (identifying untagged audio files)

I've also been meaning to talk to you about making high-end JRiver hardware for customers - since MC is our default playback and organisational software, we are already doing that essentially. It would be like the Nucleus is to Roon, but with MC instead.
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SamuriHL

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2019, 08:42:37 pm »

madvr is in an interesting space right now because madshi just created an LLC to launch the Envy.  Might be an interesting partnership potentially?
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BryanC

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 09:44:15 pm »

Flirc
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RoderickGI

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 10:30:31 pm »

Why? What are you expecting or wanting to get out of such a partnership/merger?

JRiver appears to have always had a policy of not licencing technologies that would, for example, enable better metadata collection (IMDB, Gracenote), integration of third-party services (Streaming partners don't make money, cost large amounts to integrate), and so on. Are you considering changing that policy?

JRiver has sort of sat on the cusp between a commercial application, and an open-source free data/server applications. Is that going to change?

JRiver has also been hardware agnostic to a large degree. Would a partnership with, for example, Silicondust change that?


The answers to the above questions would change my answers.


But I like the idea of "JRiver Inside", where JRiver implemented full support of DLNA 2.xx, and then offered the code to hardware providers to run inside their systems. That could make a big difference in the selection of hardware (Do you support JRiver Mr Hardware provider?). Maybe that could be done in partnership with Bubble.

I don't think you should partner with the likes of Plex and FooBar myself, but if you did, it would either depend on robust DLNA support or proprietary technology. The later would be bad. I would prefer JRiver to write your own Apps for devices, and do it well. So far, at least on Android, the solutions leave something to be desired, but I know that is changing with a JRemote for Android refresh.

DBPowerAmp? Why? If their metadata is better, improve yours. MusicBrainz Picard would make much more sense. Or at least the audio signatures, lookup, and metadata engine. Eliminate YADB and integrate the MusicBrainz database? That would improve track level recognition.

Having madVR and LAV continue to operate as independent applications means that far more people use, contribute ideas to, and suuport them. Could you have a clsoer relationship with LAV? Would it add value? I suspect a closer relationship with madVR to obtain faster response for the correction of issues, new developements, and so on would be good for JRiver users. Would it help Madshi? Perhaps with resources? But he seems and independent character.


Anyway, maybe I could think of other potential partners if I understood your objectives or motivation. VideoRedo comes to mind, for improved video conversion with proper audio handling, and advertisement removal. Maybe they could even add JTV support finally! Or Hendrik could just finally rewrite the conversion functionality.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

JimH

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 07:08:11 am »

Why? What are you expecting or wanting to get out of such a partnership/merger?
Scale. 

And ... I'm 74 1/2, going on 75.

It's either sell, partner with someone, or convince Hendrik to run it.
Quote
JRiver appears to have always had a policy of not licencing technologies that would, for example, enable better metadata collection (IMDB, Grave), integration of third-party services (Streaming partners don't make money, cost large amounts to integrate), and so on. Are you considering changing that policy?
We do tend to roll our own.  But subject is too big for this thread.
Quote

JRiver has sort of sat on the cusp between a commercial application, and an open-source free data/server applications. Is that going to change?
I'm not sure what you mean.
Quote
JRiver has also been hardware agnostic to a large degree. Would a partnership with, for example, Silicondust change that?
We've had the Id for a while now, so hardware isn't something we're averse to.  But it requires scale.
Quote


But I like the idea of "JRiver Inside", where JRiver implemented full support of DLNA 2.xx, and then offered the code to hardware providers to run inside their systems. That could make a big difference in the selection of hardware (Do you support JRiver Mr Hardware provider?). Maybe that could be done in partnership with Bubble.
Interesting thought.  And we have jmone working on graphics.
Quote

I don't think you should partner with the likes of Plex and FooBar myself, but if you did, it would either depend on robust DLNA support or proprietary technology. The later would be bad. I would prefer JRiver to write your own Apps for devices, and do it well. So far, at least on Android, the solutions leave something to be desired, but I know that is changing with a JRemote for Android refresh.
I didn't intend to say anything would be easy or likely.  I was just asking, "Ideally, who would be on your dream team?"  Think fantasy football.
Quote

DBPowerAmp? Why? If their metadata is better, improve yours.
Because people (including our customers) like them, and I respect them.
Quote
MusicBrainz Picard would make much more sense. Or at least the audio signatures, lookup, and metadata engine. Eliminate YADB and integrate the MusicBrainz database? That would improve track level recognition.

Having madVR and LAV continue to operate as independent applications means that far more people use, contribute ideas to, and suuport them. Could you have a clsoer relationship with LAV? Would it add value? I suspect a closer relationship with madVR to obtain faster response for the correction of issues, new developements, and so on would be good for JRiver users. Would it help Madshi? Perhaps with resources? But he seems an independent character.


Anyway, maybe I could think of other potential partners if I understood your objectives or motivation. VideoRedo comes to mind, for improved video conversion with proper audio handling, and advertisement removal. Maybe they could even add JTV support finally! Or Hendrik could just finally rewrite the conversion functionality.
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JimH

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 07:11:21 am »

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leezer3

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2019, 09:33:32 am »

Part of what makes MC what it is is you Jim.
I don't always agree with you or your opinions, but this company (and by extension MC) wouldn't be where it is today without them.

Any sort of partnership / sell-out is likely to dilute the unique qualities which set MC apart.
In the short term, sure we might get a little more of the 'shiny' that us users are always complaining about, but I've seen enough software sell-out / merge / create parterships and swiftly die or become unrecognisable to be absolutely certain that if you did any of the above, MC would no longer be what it is today.

Would I still remain as a user after something like this? Honestly don't know :)
I came and stayed for the idiosyncrasies :P
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JimH

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2019, 09:40:40 am »

I came and stayed for the idiosyncrasies :P
Thanks.  We'll try not to ever disappoint you!
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RoderickGI

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2019, 07:17:59 pm »

Scale. 

It is good you are thinking along those lines. Done with care, with WMC gone and iTunes possibly in critical care, MC could see another big growth spurt. But growth has to be done carefully.

And ... I'm 74 1/2, going on 75.

So only another decade or so running JRiver in you.  ;)
Hire people to run your household and look after you, so that you can look after JRiver.  ;D

It's either sell, partner with someone, or convince Hendrik to run it.

Selling wouldn't be hard, but with such an eclectic group, holding the vibe together may be difficult. Although I suspect there would be plenty of wealthy users who may take it on and let it run pretty hands-off, which may work.

I appreciate the candour in your answers Jim.


I'm not sure what you mean.

Of course, MC is a closed source commercial application. But it doesn't feel like it much of the time. Some points.

DirectShow was always the realm of tinkerers, who would try different filters and tweak them no end to get the best possible result.
Adoption of madVR and LAV, both free utilities for end-users who still tweak them no end Incorporating them into MC reinforces the above.
MC is highly configurable, and much of that configurability is provided via programmer-like tools, such as the Expression Language.
The contrast between a fully commercial application, such as PowerDVD, and MC is huge. Fully commercial means locked down, which MC is definitely not.
I sort of see MC as sitting in the middle between the likes of PowerDVD and Kodi, on a spectrum of openness.
The development process works much like open source applications I have and still use. Small shop, request a change, if it is a good idea and would benefit everyone, it gets done.
The forum also operates much like an open-source application. Users get help with their installation and environment, rather than direction to a FAQ that tells them nothing.

So, as I said, it is the feel of JRiver and MC. I think those idiosyncracies probably contribute as well!
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

CountryBumkin

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 10:02:58 am »

Personally I would like to see some integration with Plex (or similar program) where the App comes pre-loaded or is available to be installed directly on the smart TV (with no external device required).

I'm a video only user and find running a computer at each TV too cumbersome now (plus the issue where MC doesn't respond sometimes when the program has been idle on the computer for days which means I have to close the program and restart it just to watch a movie or Show).

So I use Plex on the bedroom TV and installed the free Plex server on my MC Server computer.
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drmimosa

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 02:31:16 pm »

Sonos? Well, maybe not. They are the antithesis of an open system for tinkering etc.

Although they do have massive scale. Sonos may be the biggest success in the music hardware /software space in the US. I've often thought of rebuilding my music systems with Sonos hardware. They seem to have a toaster-like appeal. People say Sonos just works with zero fuss and tons of music sources.

Hifiberry + JRiver. This is what I have used for years, with various Raspberry Pi units. It's a great little combination.

ComputerAudiophile/AudiophileStyle seems like a good alignment in users, despite differences in business aims. That was the blog which led me to JRiver back in 2009.

A big hardware partnership could be a great way to scale. For example, the BlueOS and NAD partnership seem successful.

But I keep thinking back to Sonos. I see those units everywhere.

Jim, thanks so much for your vision and leadership at JRiver, keeping software development on track, and for creating Interact Forum. Great company, phenomenal product, and a rare place - - an interesting, sane corner of the internet. If there is anything we can do to help it all stay around a long time, let us know.

Cheers, Phil
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kr4

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 07:26:21 pm »

Sonos? Well, maybe not. They are the antithesis of an open system for tinkering etc.

Although they do have massive scale. Sonos may be the biggest success in the music hardware /software space in the US. I've often thought of rebuilding my music systems with Sonos hardware. They seem to have a toaster-like appeal. People say Sonos just works with zero fuss and tons of music sources. ..........................................

..................................But I keep thinking back to Sonos. I see those units everywhere.

Jim, thanks so much for your vision and leadership at JRiver, keeping software development on track, and for creating Interact Forum. Great company, phenomenal product, and a rare place - - an interesting, sane corner of the internet. If there is anything we can do to help it all stay around a long time, let us know.
I envy their success but Sonos should be considered philosophically incompatible.   I've had a few meetings with them over the years and they seem to have little or no concern for supporting high accuracy/quality in formats/resolution.. 
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Scobie

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2019, 09:33:52 pm »

I think it makes sense to work with someone that complements JRiver, so from that point of view, Bubble is a good fit.

If it is possible to chip it into the Ids etc, then JRiver + Bubble = Sonos, and that's pretty compelling.  It would even give JRiver an opportunity to plug gaps in the current DLNA / UPnP environment. Have the functionality without the proprietary overhead.
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JimH

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2019, 06:47:26 pm »

Moving this to the main board.
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jachin99

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2019, 07:52:57 pm »

What about partnering with Emby?  I actually chose MC because it is the last remaining well supported Direct Show player with a client server architecture.  Having MC act as an emby client would introduce their simplicity with your quality playback capabilities.
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tzr916

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2019, 09:17:07 pm »

1. MC + SiliconDust to get copy protected cable Tv channels in MC... Just not sure what SiliconDust would be getting out of it.

2. MC + something to get a real 10ft UI MC client Android app for Tv's, Roku, Firetv. Including Tv Guide, Live tv, videos, movies, audio. Not just a "remote" or "panel"... What that something is, I have no idea.
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ferday

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2019, 09:40:41 pm »

bubble!

they have a great interaction with most of the big players' players (casting, etc.) and don't play in JR's space otherwise. 
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EdBrady

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2019, 09:55:23 pm »

I've used dBpoweramp longer than I've used JRiver, and find it indispensable. Both companies seem alike in that they like to do things their own way, so I'm not sure you two could ever get along!

The biggest shortcoming of JRiver by far is its lack of support for any sort of commercial streaming service, be it audio or video. If any kind of merger, sale, operating agreement or whatever could make this a reality, it would be great. A JRiver Media Center in which I could not only listen to my own library but also Spotify and watch YouTube TV would indeed be a dream come true.
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tij

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2019, 03:54:01 am »

My 2 cents ... it depends what technology they can offer for MC and effort to integrate those technology into MC architecture and future ... so might be useful to list what each of them can offer for MC

MadVR is top on my list ... just to ensure it continue to exist and does not get forgotten incase his Envy is successful ... exclusive madVR on MC also puts MC in unique position, but I doubt madshi will do that ... on top of that many MC competitors seems to be dropping madVR (kody, emby)

Plex has ideal (in my opinion) implementation of client/server architecture ... but their tagging and playback is lacking far behind MC

Other programs I heard of before but never used ... so not sure what they can bring to the table
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Manfred

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2019, 06:42:35 am »

For me MC technology is pretty mature with all of it functional capabilities.

Key areas where some of the market is going are Devices & ecosystems like Apple TV 4K (Apple), Shield TV (Google, NVIDIA). If you want to be part of those eco systems you could/if possible e.g. partner with Infuse (ATV) as a Client of MC (would need a lot of improvement & change on the Infuse/MC side), same would be valid for NVIDIA Shield TV (New MC Client). Same would be valid for Plex, but Plex Server & MC having similar functions and from my experience this kind of partnerships & or Mergers are difficult.

madVR is already part of MC. dbPoweramp (I have it also) have a certain part of functionality MC already has.

Important would be also the culture of your partner - it is a key success factor.


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DJLegba

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2019, 08:46:10 am »

Bubble has integrated some streaming services (eg Tidal) so working more closely with Bubble would let you provide a feature many users have asked for but you've been reluctant to dedicate resources to. I currently use Bubble to stream Tidal through MC, and would be excited to see some kind of formal cooperation there.

I use dbPoweramp to rip CDs, and to check the integrity of some of the earlier rips I'd done with MC. I like their software.
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mpg732

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2019, 09:11:21 am »

Man I hate to see post like this.  I have been using a variety of media centers and home automation programs over the years.  Every time I see some thing like this, the company sells or mergers with a larger company and the next thing you know the program gets discontinued or so drastically changed that its no longer the program you have grown to love.  I just went through this for the 5th time with home automation software "iRule" .  Got sold and now being shut down.   I understand Jim is at the age he may not want to continue, I completely understand that.  I just hope he can find some one that will keep this going. 
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JimH

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2019, 09:49:27 am »

Man I hate to see post like this.  I have been using a variety of media centers and home automation programs over the years.  Every time I see some thing like this, the company sells or mergers with a larger company and the next thing you know the program gets discontinued or so drastically changed that its no longer the program you have grown to love.  I just went through this for the 5th time with home automation software "iRule" .  Got sold and now being shut down.   I understand Jim is at the age he may not want to continue, I completely understand that.  I just hope he can find some one that will keep this going. 

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jachin99

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2019, 10:52:18 am »

If you're seriously considering a merger or involvement with Plex then at the very least please do some research about why people leave the platform.  If you were to somehow be swallowed up by Plex then JRiver probably wont exist after a few years.  I requested a simple feature here to center the channel logos in the guide and I got it within two weeks, which is about half the reason I stay.  I think if I were to request something like that with plex, a thousand other people would have to ask for it and it would take a year to change and two years later it would disappear with a UI overhaul.  Whatever you do please don't be like that.
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tij

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2019, 12:38:43 pm »

If you're seriously considering a merger or involvement with Plex then at the very least please do some research about why people leave the platform.  If you were to somehow be swallowed up by Plex then JRiver probably wont exist after a few years.  I requested a simple feature here to center the channel logos in the guide and I got it within two weeks, which is about half the reason I stay.  I think if I were to request something like that with plex, a thousand other people would have to ask for it and it would take a year to change and two years later it would disappear with a UI overhaul.  Whatever you do please don't be like that.
Exactly why I left Plex ... even though I have life membership

They keep adding stuff they think are cool ... without troubleshooting stuff they already have ... in the end got lots of features, but with lots of bugs
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BigSpider

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2019, 02:50:52 pm »

I love JRiver as is. Merging with some other company would I think lead in the long term to the dumbing down of a really fine piece of software in the inevitable push for  a bigger and bigger user base. Just my 2 cents.
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jmone

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2019, 12:43:36 am »

FYI - I've posted an "invitation" of sorts over on the Plex Forum about colloboration on the HTPC Space given their recent news killing their HTPC Windows Client.

https://forums.plex.tv/t/killing-pmp-for-windows/446526/343?u=jmone

Pointed them at Jim! :)
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JimH

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2019, 07:03:55 am »

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JimH

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2019, 07:25:51 am »

FYI - I've posted an "invitation" of sorts over on the Plex Forum about colloboration on the HTPC Space given their recent news killing their HTPC Windows Client.

https://forums.plex.tv/t/killing-pmp-for-windows/446526/343?u=jmone

Pointed them at Jim! :)

Thanks for inviting them.
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darky

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2019, 10:00:55 am »

madvr because I love what it does for me as a movie fan
dbpower  gives me the same feel as jriver ( not sure why..but it does)
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Dennis in FL

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2019, 10:54:33 am »

How about Firecore (Infuse)
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DocLotus

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2019, 12:44:49 pm »

I also left Plex for the following reasons...
1: Non responsive to my posts.
2: It was a b***h getting it to work on several platforms.
3: Once set up, Plex always ran slow on any platform I tried it on.
4: Setting up new Playlists was always cumbersome & built slowly.
5: It seemed that no matter how much I wanted Plex on my computer there was always something in the way of success.

The bottom line was it looks nice but looks can be deceiving. Getting it to work reliably was my number one problem; but others have had success with it... just not me.
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drmimosa

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2019, 03:24:41 pm »

Two more for the list:

Logitech Media Server

and of course,

Whitebear
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astromo

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2019, 09:02:29 pm »

The complementary software/systems that works for me on my setup are:
  • dBpoweramp - got this when I was doing the big rip when I digitised my CD collection way back when and I've kept up to date since even though I don't really need to. I value the AccurateRip database and their external encoders (specifically AAC / m4a) that I use with MC when converting playlists for transfer to my mobile (cell) phone.
  • PerfectTunes - Another one from Spoon - can help out with cover art but the JRiver art database is pretty darn handy.
  • fanart.tv - Regarding artwork, I've found this to be a great source of quality artwork. Picard used to have a functioning plugin but it's borked, so I've got to go manual when I need this sort of function.
  • musicbrainz Picard - helpful for curating audio metadata
  • ccextractor - works well with Australia's somewhat backward approach to closed captions. I run every TV recording by default to ccextractor to extract subtitles. Subs are very handy with a young child about the place who has no sense of quiet/loud. Also good for avoiding disturbing others when watching video after hours.
  • Flirc
  • Logitech Harmony remote control - works with Flirc and MC ... kinda sort of ok
  • Engen - for auto switch on of HiFi for audio playback (unfortunately the development of Engen appears to have fallen out of favour ... still scope to improve)
  • asio4all - for some daft reason my PC hardware and WASAPI didn't play nicely with the S/PDIF header to RCA output card that I put together. asio4all got the noise issues sorted

The existing deal with thetvdb, themoviedb and subtitles.org works pretty well. I think that's it.

A lot of the functions above can either be integrated with user manipulation or made to work outside of MC, however the ideal would be to enable the user to configure capability with wizards or options selection from within MC. That would help the noobs and make the software more attractive to prospective users.
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syndromeofadown

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2019, 09:05:40 pm »

I think JRiver would be a nice addition to illustrate's products (The makers of dBpoweramp).

Why not sell shares of JRiver? I would toss 5k into the company as a long term investment.

Have you considered making JRiver open source? Start a Patreon to fund the existing team's continuing development.
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antenna

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2019, 12:27:42 am »


Here are a few I think of.

DBPowerAmp
Foobar
Radio Paradise
Silicondust
Plex
Bubble
madVR
Soundspectrum



Of those mentioned, I'd want to throw in a vote of support for dBpoweramp.  It's been my go-to audio converter for over 10 years.

At one point, I saw a review of audio converters that used spectral analyses to analyze the accuracy of the conversion and the level of artifacts generated.  (I just spent a bit in a search engine, and I cannot find that review anymore...)

dBpoweramp did quite well (another that did well was Sound Forge, but the new owner of that one is making it difficult to continue to support it  But I digress...)

Even though my main reason for liking dBpoweramp is the quality of conversions, there are other things i can hang my hat on.  :)

dBpoweramp places itself on Windows Explorer context menus for audio files.  I can "Convert" or "Edit Tags" easily.

It just seems like a well-designed product.

But what do I know?  ;)

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wer

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2019, 03:22:06 am »

A merger with Plex would destroy what you've built, as surely as selling to Apple or Microsoft would.

Converting the company to a closely held corporation, via employee stock ownership and selling shares to community members and other concerned parties, would allow JRiver to continue and grow, while staying true to itself.  This presents a better endgame transition than the other possibilities mentioned.

I would invest.
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JimH

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2019, 06:50:29 am »

Why not sell shares of JRiver? I would toss 5k into the company as a long term investment.
Thanks very much for the vote of confidence!
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rec head

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2019, 07:48:14 am »

I know very little about the madVR Envy but if it included MC as a high end video player it would be interesting.

EDIT: Might sound crazy but Monoprice is doing some interesting things in home theater. Such as https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=37887
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jmone

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2019, 08:10:46 am »

I would invest.

Yeah - I'd be in.... Not sure how much the Ozzie Zac is worth in real $
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JimH

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2019, 08:53:23 am »

You guys are amazing. Thanks.
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SamuriHL

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2019, 10:30:41 am »

I know very little about the madVR Envy but if it included MC as a high end video player it would be interesting.

EDIT: Might sound crazy but Monoprice is doing some interesting things in home theater. Such as https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=37887

While the idea of putting a high end player like MC into the hardware that runs the Envy seems like a good idea, the Envy is going to be a device that sits between the source (HDMI in) and the TV (HDMI out) to provide tone mapping and upscaling capabilities.  It won't have or need a player in that case.  But I still think a close collaboration with MadVR LLC (the new company they formed for the Envy) would not hurt.  Perhaps a separate product that includes these capabilities in a SHIELD like device?  OMG drool drool drool.  :)
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kr4

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2019, 11:05:50 am »


Of those mentioned, I'd want to throw in a vote of support for dBpoweramp.  It's been my go-to audio converter for over 10 years.
  Agreed.  There is also something of a no-cow dung attitude in common along with a focus on practical solutions.
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remixedcat

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2019, 11:57:56 pm »

Plex - Not very helpful on their forums. Plex had major performance issues and a lot of issues on RokuTVs and DenonHEOS. Plex also took forever to update the library/metadata. I'd rip a DVD/BR and then name it according to their recommendations, still took 30mins to 2 hours! Also seemed to hate my VLAN config while jriver seems to be cool with it.

dBPoweramp - Love that program. Been using it for more than a decade and my go-to conversion software.

Sonos - Sue-happy and arrogant. You do NOT want to draw their attention. They are trying to kill Denon Heos by litigation, even tho HEOS is very different and is higher sound quality and light years better than sonos. Sonos also is limited to wireless G standard and many APs allready have legacy disabled.. and for good reason..it puts APs into protection mode... and putting tons of overhead and processing power. Apple does that as well but with their "n" wireless clients. Also have some internal experiences with them and another company that give me a reason to dislike them even more. Can't say them here tho.. NDA stuff.

Partnering with Denon would be nicer. The DLNA renderer even worked effortlessly with my HomeCinema soundbar. If full HEOS controller would be on JRiver it would be awesome. Would be much better than the sonos controller software for windows that was flaky and had a bizarre layout.
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stewart_pk

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2019, 01:14:40 am »

madVR
DBPowerAmp
Soundspectrum
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Axilian

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2019, 03:38:08 am »

Apps I use alongside jrmc to maintain my music collection are

dBpoweramp - both for conversion and tagging - that's my main vote of where closer ties should go

mp3tag - useful set of tools when dbpoweramp fails

and

Foobar - mainly for conversion and splitting individual tracks out of a full album flac

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Vocalpoint

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Re: Who do we love?
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2019, 01:35:10 pm »

dBpoweramp - both for conversion and tagging - that's my main vote of where closer ties should go

+1. The king of conversion and tagging. Nothing else come close.

VP
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