Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[FenceFurniture]

Just in case you want the attached screenshots as well.....

[FenceFurniture]

Just looking at some of those links at the bottom of my screenshot.

intel.com/products/chipsets
I suspect that is only currently available chipsets, as 233 doesn't get a mention. Looking at the 232 page - it doesn't mention Audio in any way.
Down the bottom of that page is Technical Documents, and I clicked on the first link to C230 Series, which leads to a download page.

From that PDF, it would seem that the info is out there somewhere (and I stress that this is not my Chipset - but I'll keep looking). I took a screenshot of the relevant part of the PDF.

intel.com/support/chipsets
This page is suggesting I download Auto-Detect Driver & Support Assistant. It proved to be of no help - just says HDAUDIO etc as I had previously noted a few posts ago.

A bit of searching has turned up this page:
https://windowstechies.com/-/en/filename-gen/?file=High%20Definition%20Audio&gclid=CjwKCAiAjrXxBRAPEiwAiM3DQh0SdJoNhPwFEhofaq78SzsPoUz2VYh35wCL1idrtGoadGpELNOhQhoCcDgQAvD_BwE

Would it be worth downloading that?

Crikey, it's hard to track ALC233 down!

[FenceFurniture]

Some more interesting info:
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=202097

especially from Mark and Takashi, further down and at the end.

I cannot find any mention of ALC233 or even 233 on the Realtek website. I have sent them an email to see if they can tell the sampling rate it can do.

[RoderickGI]

it is capable of DTS sound (AFAIK that means 96kHz):

There are various versions of DTS, one of which is DTS 96/24. It is a compressed audio technology constrained by bandwidth (DTS supports a maximum bit rate of 1.5 Mbps), so finding a clear statement on the supported Sample Rates is a little difficult. Certainly, DTS isn't going to tell you: https://dts.com/professional/home-solutions

Support for DTS, or the marketing speak about the laptop, doesn't imply support for 96 kHz audio. DTS isn't DTS-HD, or DTS-HD Master Audio, although obviously they are related.

[RoderickGI]

Would it be worth downloading that?

No. Absolutely not. Do not use such programs that claim to fix all sorts of problems. They are more likely to install a virus or malware on your PC.

[RoderickGI]

Some more interesting info:
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=202097

That is indeed interesting. It sounds exactly like your problem. Although they are discussing audio on Linux, the comments about Windows, and specifically the limits of the analogue output, which you are using with the Onyx, might be the answer.

[FenceFurniture]

Thank you very much for those replies Roderick. I guess there is no way I can get digital output?

[RoderickGI]

I can't find anything useful on the ALC233 either. Maybe it is a question for Toshiba/Dynabook, given that they made the laptop.

You could use a USB DAC with the laptop. I don't use a separate DAC myself at the moment, but I'm sure lots of people could recommend a cheap USB DAC that works well. As the Onyx is a powered speaker, a reasonable DAC should work with it fine, and theoretically you should get up to 24/192 audio.

[FenceFurniture]

Thanks for your diligence! I'll research USB DACs (here and elsewhere) to see what I can learn.

[FenceFurniture]

Just a cursory look so far turns up a Cambridge Audio DACMAGIC XS V 2.0 for AUD159 (~USD90).
https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/cambridge-audio-dac-magic-xs-v-2-titanium?ref=isp_rel_prd&isp_ref_pos=2

Or Schitt DACs for AUD149 (there's gotta be a joke in there somewhere.... "Daks" in Australia means trousers/pants)
https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/schiit-audio-fulla-usb-dongle-dac-headphone-amplifier?variant=16064094851&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsbrxBRDpARIsAAnnz_O53a9YH4yvUuyDyagPl0glvE9pHrAFtIO9HNHXf-5O6qT9R4OUYqQaAuCREALw_wcB

[RoderickGI]

Yeah, I'm Australian. In Melbourne.

I always thought Shiit DACs must be no good, with a name like that! People like them!

BTW, in your position I would be trying to get the laptop to play a broader range of Sample Rates. But there would be risk in the process, and it probably wouldn't work. Just so you know, if you were confident in trying.

1. A Restore Point may no be enough, so I'd back up the whole boot disk in the laptop, and make sure that I had a restore process that worked. Windows 10 still has the Windows 7 "Backup and Restore" functionality if you don't have a full disk backup tool. "Control Panel > System and Security > Backup and Restore (Windows 7)". Maybe that is only there if you upgraded from Windows 7 though, rather than did a new Windows 10 install.
Note that I have made backups with this tool in Windows 10 that the Restore process has completely ignored when I tested doing a restore, so test properly before the next steps. I have a dedicated backup utility which I know works.

2. I'd delete all associated audio drivers and devices from Device Manager, including the Realtek drivers under "Sound, video and game controllers" and the Realtek devices under "Audio inputs and outputs".

3. I'd reboot the PC and let Windows 10 install the devices and drivers again.

4. Then test everything works and whether I had fixed the Sample Rate issue. If anything was made worse or broken I would restore the backup I made. Maybe after a couple more reboots to see if Windows 10 fixed any issue.


You could try the above if you wanted to FenceFurnitire, but it may make things a lot worse. If you do try it, be very sure that the Backup Restore process worked. I would probably test that whole Restore process before deleting drivers and devices.

[FenceFurniture]

Yeah, I'm Australian. In Melbourne.

Yes, I've thought for some time that you must have been in the same time zone as me. Use of the phrase "bum steer" all but confirmed it....

I always thought Schiit DAKs must be no good

They're not - I had them once.

BTW, in your position I would be trying to get the laptop to play a broader range of Sample Rates.
But there would be risk in the process,
and it probably wouldn't work.

You almost had me kinda keen....until that last bit....

To be honest, taking such a risk is above my pay grade, and would not be worth it, especially if a DAC (a good one of course.... ) will do the job, because from the small amount I have read so far, it seems they bring other benefits, such as cleaner sound, more volume (reading the Cambridge Audio link).

However, the question is: is there a guarantee that a DAC will output >48kHz, given that it seems impossible to find out definitively if the ALC233 goes >48. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the chipset won't do >48k then it's Schiit City for any DAC to do so.

I'll try and contact Toshiba. Haven't had a response from Realtek in Taiwan, and don't really expect one.

[RoderickGI]

I don't think the Realtek chipset is involved if you use a USB DAC. That is pretty much the point of using a DAC. It should have its own driver which appears in MC as an output device.

Actually, Windows 10 now supports USB Audio Class 2.0, so you should get up to 192 kHz without using a specific DAC driver. Read https://www.gadgetguy.com.au/confirmed-windows-10-now-supports-usb-audio-class-2-0/ or Google some more.

The website for the CAMBRIDGE AUDIO DACMAGIC XS V 2.0 explains it all.

"When running in USB Class 2 mode, the DacMagic XS can also use our dedicated Windows USB Class 2 USB driver (driver not required for Apple computers). This allows you to bypass the computer operating system’s poor audio path, preventing unwanted interference. You don’t need to put up with bad sound from a laptop, ever again."

USB 1.0 mode: 16/24-bit, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
USB 2.0 mode: 16/24-bit, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz

You almost had me kinda keen....until that last bit....

Well, I didn't want to say it would fix the issue, as I have no idea if it would. But it is what I would have tried. But then I do that sort of thing without concern.

[FenceFurniture]

....you should get up to 192 kHz without using a specific DAC driver.

But wouldn't the driver come with the DAC anyway?

The Gadget Guy refers to USB Audio Class 2.0 "devices" but then only goes on to test an Oppo DAC, so are these "devices" always DACs or are there other devices involved as well? The wording is not entirely clear.

Indeed, that there’s no reliable evidence yet produced that anyone can hear the difference even between the CD audio standard (16 bits, 44.1kHz) and 24/96

Hmmm, if that's what he thinks then he shouldn't be writing about audio....because he's either never heard the same music in both formats on a decent system.....or his ears are rubbish (thinking Sting's Sacred Love in particular). One wonders if he could the difference between regular vinyl and Direct to Disc. Maybe most of the magic of SACDs is in the remastering, but they are almost always quite superior (have known a couple of duds).

[RoderickGI]

But wouldn't the driver come with the DAC anyway?

In the case of Cambridge Audio they are a download from their site. But if Windows 10 supports the highest quality, the Cambridge Audio driver probably doesn't add anything. It was just required before Windows 10 supported USB Audio Class 2.0.

The Gadget Guy refers to USB Audio Class 2.0 "devices" but then only goes on to test an Oppo DAC, so are these "devices" always DACs or are there other devices involved as well?

He was just using the Oppo as an example DAC I think. I posted that link for his discussion on USB Audio Class 1.0 and 2.0. There is a lot of information available on the web.

I'm not getting into his opinions on hearing. My ears are rubbish. 

[FenceFurniture]

It was just required before Windows 10 supported USB Audio Class 2.0.

Ok, I see.

He was just using the Oppo as an example DAC I think. I posted that link for his discussion on USB Audio Class 1.0 and 2.0. There is a lot of information available on the web.

Ok, so I guess he means DACs when he says devices. I have some more research and reading to do.

My ears are rubbish. 

That's unfortunate. I mentioned the Woodwork forum earlier - plenty of those chaps have shot hearing because they didn't look after it. Using a percussion drill on masonry with no ear defenders, etc.

[iphigenie]

I did some searching again last night, and it seems that it could be somehow that the Auto bitdepth setting in Device settings in audio might be causing these issues. Manually setting them might fix the issue according to this post. I haven't had time to try it myself. However, the "new" Realtek drivers seem quite bad in other aspects, but these might too be fixed with this setting. I'll have to give it a go and report back. I've been looking for a fix for over two years, but last night I might have finally used the right mix of search terms in Google to get my answer. See thread link below.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=109994.0

That worked for me

[RoderickGI]

That worked for me

That's good.

FenceFurniture, did you ever actually try that? I think we got distracted by the Fuzz.

The relevant post is https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,109994.msg760884.html#msg760884

Might only work with the Realtek driver.

[FenceFurniture]

I did, about 30 minutes ago. Doesn't want to play >48k. (as you say, maybe it's only for the Realtek driver)

[FenceFurniture]

WOOHOO! Finally, a result >48kHz.

I purchased a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic XS. The attachment shows that I'm finally getting up to 24bit 192kHz sampling.

So the difference in sound detail in a 24-176 SACD that I'm getting now is astonishing! Very significant indeed. More volume as well but I didn't really need that. I guess that is probably a result of two things - the much improved DAC over the ALC233 chipset in the laptop, and also getting 176kHz sampling rather than topping out at 48 kHz.

Thanks to fitbrit for his input, but particularly to RoderickGI who has pursued this with me for *quite some time* over a couple of different threads.

Best AUD160 ever spent!

[FenceFurniture]

So following on from that (and I'm not really sure if I should post into this thread or my own):

I have several more Audio Device choices now in Options. (screenshot attached)

I have downloaded the latest driver from Cambridge so that I can use the Dacmagic in Class 2.0 USB mode to get 176kHz and 192kHz sampling. The LED on it is pink when those rates are being achieved, green for 88.2 & 96, and blue for 48 & 44.1

When I choose either
Default Audio Device [Direct Sound] or
CA Dacmagic XS [Direct Sound]   (and the CA is Cambridge Audio)

I get a pink LED indicating that the sample rate is coming through at 176kHz for the particular SACD. The sound is good (great actually).
I don't think I can discern any difference in the sound between the two (have only tested a couple of tracks though)

However, if I choose any of
CA USBAudio ASIO Driver [ASIO]  (is this now a genuine ASIO?)
CA DacMagic XS [WASAPI]
CA Audio 2.0 Output [Kernel Streaming]

I only get a blue LED indicating that I'm limited to 44.1 or 48kHz. The sound is slightly louder, but not as refined.

So I guess that two questions come out of that:
1. Am I still restricted to those 2 choices for 176+ because of my crummy ALC233 soundcard?
2. Should there be a difference between Default Audio Device [Direct Sound] and CA Dacmagic XS [Direct Sound]? (because I seem to recall being steered away from DAD [Direct Sound] before and towards WASAPI)