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Author Topic: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV  (Read 20171 times)

Hendrik

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Somewhat counter intertuitively, as display technology gets better, videos will look less smooth, as their pixel response gets faster, and they produce less blur during presentation.
This is a result of movies and shows only being 24 frames per second, which is barely enough for a fluid image, and relies on image retention both in the display and our eyes to become more "fluid".

OLEDs have a much better pixel response time then eg. LCDs had, which makes them much faster and "better", although you will notice the image judder from the low frame rate more. Motion Interpolation and de-judder settings can help here. Also just increasing the brightness can help, as it then results in more image retention in your eyes.
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tkolsto

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Netflix, youtube is worse yes. Watching movies on JRiver is better but also there it can produce stutter and judder when things go fast. And also as I mentioned when the Tv was behaving better I did not have to sync hz and fps, I could use 120 hz and Red October HQ. and use truemotion to settle things, dejudder at 5 or even 4. two days I discover this after january. and the next day back to how it is now. I can watch movies no with JRiver, I hope. Need more testing. I have only tested two movies now. I am building a new Deskstop. All my movies are on the old poorer desktop which I dont have connected to my Tv anymore.

also terrible are dark objeckt in motion with brigth background, the edges get crushed and/or vibrate ( like the opening scene, Alian Covenant movie. Same goes for very dark scenes and black crushing(objects/edges loose their natural look and get crushed edges. These two problems dont have any fix that I am familiar with.
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Manfred

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I have also LG OLED. I have a lot of Concerts with fast moving dancers. I have no issues with Micro stutterig. When I started with MC, I first did upscaling to 1080p and then let the OLED upscale to 4K that created some Micro stuttering. So I let MC do the upscaling. Everything was fine.
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tkolsto

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Manfred. I dont know how one choose between Tv or MC to do the scaling. Anyways I have good picture also, but it is the overall handeling I am dissatisfied with and artifacts due to truemotion and black crushing and dark objects in front of a bright background and the object start to flicker or get a virbrate effeckt.
Old movies like Erin Brochowich and other is bad and have flicker stutter and also just bad picture quality. this is probably due to scaling like you say. same goes for old youtube docu from tv shows for ex. National geographic(like low resolution videos). high res videos on youtube are also unstable. one time it have stutters and other time it is smooth(on the same video/film).this is due to one time nvidia driver install or driverversion is better or worse. I dont think it is due to a worse driver though but more to it I am lucky with the driver install or not. I now use ddu to uninstall nvidia driver in safe mode and also started to debloat nvidiadriver before install. I have done this two times now. first time I got a good install and almost no stutter on a 4k youtubevideo of Greece scenery video. and did the same when there was a new nvidia driver, but then I got stutter again. So to me I have never experienced such uneven result from time to time. Its like everything is more unstable now then before. Why I dont know.
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tkolsto

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Hmm.. automatically switch to hdr mode when starting playback(recommended) is not working. I dont get the hdr logo.
I have to also tick the other option "use the displays hdr capabillity for hdr videos (if available)" to get hdr logo.

(from the wiki jrvr: Automatically switch to HDR mode when starting playback (recommended)
When playing a HDR video, the screen needs to be in HDR mode to handle the video - JRVR will automatically enable this mode as required).  JRiver should turn on this mode when on initiate a hdr movie and logo will appear? Yes? This is the recommended setting.

Use the display's HDR capability for HDR videos (if available)
Enabling this option allows JRVR to pass HDR content directly to a HDR capable screen, making use of the HDR functionality in the screen to improve the dynamic range. (this is not recommended because JRVR does this better on its own, right? If it tick this option also..either both JRVR and the tv is doing the prossessing either that or this option makes the TV do the entire prossessing and not JRVR. both cases is not recommended. Right?



Reguarding windows 11 pro, I only have licences on win 10 pro, so I installed this than upgraded the pc to windows 11 pro through windows update. I Am now considering to buy a key licences of windows 11 pro. Anybody recommending this or is the update through windows update just as safe? anybody have any experience on this?
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tkolsto

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I have also LG OLED. I have a lot of Concerts with fast moving dancers. I have no issues with Micro stutterig. When I started with MC, I first did upscaling to 1080p and then let the OLED upscale to 4K that created some Micro stuttering. So I let MC do the upscaling. Everything was fine.

Manfred, how do I make JRiver do all the upscaling?
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tkolsto

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(1.Hardware accelerate video decoding when possible

This option allows certain video processing operations to be offloaded to the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit), reducing demand on the CPU.

Bitstreaming
This option allows setup to send the encoded audio data stream directly to the sound device. Selecting this option will exclude use of many of Media Center's audio processing capabilities.

2.VideoClock

This option enables VideoClock which is a key part of Media Center's solution to smooth video playback.

For more information see VideoClock.)

I have an rtx 3050 and cpu i5 12600kf.  These two options above 1. and 2. should always be enabled for best/smoothest 23,976 rendering? Or are there scenarios where these is not needed, like a good cpu and graphic card.. ( I recon 1. should always be ticked so that gpu does most of the job and do it better since gpu is very fast).

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tkolsto

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I have read about the videoclock. when I get the option in windows to choose 23.976 hz, this is only possible if the tv supports it, I recon.  From what I have seen all movies are 23.976 fps. when I have display settings mode change set to on. both movie and hz is synced. Hence no need for videoclock activated. Is this accurate? Does videoclock smooth the video even more if activated? So that it is recommended to be on for supersmooth videoplay. so is both display sync and videoclock recommended for the smoothest video play? less chance for stutter and microstutter?

Update on videoclock: videoclock is syncing the audioclock and videoclock, which is needed to avoid framedrops and repeated frames. To get away with stutter and shimmering and or vibration effect of objects in motion..one need to activate the tvs interpolation, which is Lgs truemotion(located under the clarity setting under picture setting.)

I know that having it on is a good thing if one plays a lot of different content from what I understand.
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JimH

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tkolsto

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Thanks JimH, I Have read it. Still I am not quite sure. From what I understand, this videoclock is useful only if there is deveation between fps and hz, but the "display auto refreash rate changer"(in displaysetting set to automatic) does exactly that. Is it so that this videoclock make this even better and thus more super smooth? Or is it only when the displayrate is 24hz and the source is 23.976 fps and the clock correct the small change( is it only in such cases the clock is useful or does it also ensure smoothnes when there is no deviation, thus recommended always activated to get smoothest videoplay?
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Hendrik

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The monitor refresh rate is often not 100% accurate, and small deviations can still result in regular stuttering - although typically something like once every few minutes, and not all that much more often.
VideoClock can compensate for this by adjusting the audio to match the refresh rate.
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tkolsto

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Thank You very much!! Very helpful. So I read this is very recommended for Madvr to get smoothest video or JRVR renderer.
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tkolsto

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I suddenly got less fluid videoplay small stutte her and there. so I changed back to JRVR. but it did not help. I checked Ctrl + j and it showed lots of frame drops. Se att. picture. It says window. Am I at a window mode? Could this window mode be the cause.how do I get away with this window mode.  I have to pause to be able to activate ctrl + j.
I have both videoclock and gpu decoding enable in videosettings.

hdd has good health and I use a local video file.

do I need to reinstall windows again maybe?

update: I can not see that I am in window mode. I have clicked on the square upper right corner and all corners are filled out. I now suddenly dont have to pause to use ctrl + j. everytime I start a movie inital get about 50 frame drops. I tried disabeling videoclock but same result.

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JimH

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Have you configured Windows Defender?
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114101.0.html

Uninstall any other antivirus.
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tkolsto

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Yes I have gone through the whole list of exeptions and then some.

Reinstall windows 10?
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Hendrik

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Drops during startup are normal and should usually not be a concern as long as it stops increasing.
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tkolsto

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yes there are many framedrops when one start the movie and then it continue. I have not measured it, but from what I can remember it was a few here and there as the movie progress. it looks like it happens when small stutters appear. and there is not a lot but there are more than it used to be. so more small stutter here and there and that looks to be the framedrops when that happen. so it is watchable but there are more stutter in difficult scenes. so when these scenes happen there is a bit more stutter and also on scenes that used to be ok more or less. it just a bit poorer performance. it used to be a tighter performance.

when it was ok it I only had ticked of " use hardeware decoding when possible"(using the gpu for processing). so I tried videoclock on madvr and now it is poorer and also on jrvr. even when I untick it.

I have feeling that when I try just normal setting like this sooner or later it is messed up. fragile somehow
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JimH

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Are you using any other antivirus software?
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tkolsto

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No no just windows.
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tkolsto

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my regular type ssd(systemdrive) showed 95 percent on health status last time I checked. use crystaldiskinfo. too many formating are not very good for ssd that is why is at 95 % already. bought it 3 - 4 years ago.(which I do everytime i reinstall windows to be sure it is clean before installing. I remove all partitions and delete them and format what can be formated and then delete partitions and then install os.)
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tkolsto

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when I play the alien the covenant I think it is a bit darker than last time I played it. some times ctrl + j dont work.

when the rendering was at it tightest( very little stutter. was more fast and fluid. It is not that bad but it used to be better tighter and more smooth. and sometimes I get a stutter several seconds after I hit play.

 now some scenes are similar and others are performed poorer so it is not on every scene a problem.  Also at one time it was Very good on madvr I had no repeated frames or framedrops. it was overall better and more stable. now it is easier get a stutter). I am not satisfied because it was better. But it is a small difference. also after I play the same scene I want to check stutter it can do better than last time. and that without doing anything then replay the scene. strange.
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tkolsto

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delete
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tkolsto

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I now will have to see if there is difference in other things like netflix youtube..if I see poorer performance there too,
( there are no videoclock to correct things on these platforms. The rendering was ok before so I hope that is the case now also) there is something wrong elsewhere. If that is so...a clean install of windows is recommended?
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tkolsto

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delete
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tkolsto

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videoclock makes it better. I had something running in the background. I have closed it. It might be a bit better now, but not sure. but have to see more movies now to check.

Also:
when I initiate play... it starts to play and after some seconds I get a stutter and then it renders on. this happens several times now.

also when I play a scene ...it was not performing quite as good as I have seen earlier..I then play it again it is better. and maybe next time is not evenly good. this could happen when i watch for some minutes...and I come to a known difficult scene...it performes poorer and then I stop and play it again it performs be better. This is what I mean was better before..more stable. but I am now talking about just a small difference in performance in the scene.
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jmone

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You will see some frame drops/repeats on startup and maybe on a seek.  Bring up the JR OSD, and press Ctrl+R that will "reset" these counters to 0.  For testing, keep the OSD up and leave the movie play noting down how (if any) drops/repeats appear:
- is it 1 ever xx seconds/minutes
- is it a bunch all at once (and if so do you notice the rendering time blow out)
- some other pattern.
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tkolsto

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Thank You jmone. I have uninstalled JRiver and removed the nvidia driver with the DDU safemode procedure and did a clean install of nvidia driver(latest same driver). Then installed JRiver. Did not touch a thing in settings other than change to auto mode changer in display settings. and changed to Madvr in video mode. No videoclock or hardware decoding when possible is ticked. Other changes is in Nvidia panel, like battery at max, vsync on, triple buffer on and uncheck gsync to be able to use LG's truemotion (also have to change hdmi mode from pc mode to standard mode or theater mode) which I have to have dejudder at 7 and bfi at low and sharpness at zero and turned off most things like energy savings and ai settings.

I have not tested it that much and I am leaving to my Parents' cabin this weekend. But I will try Your procedure. What I can say now is that it looks to be performing a bit better, but I can not tell how good at this point (again this is with the above change). I have not tried JRVR yet. When I now play Alien Covenant the movie is not that colorless making it appear darker. So my earlier comment about a darker movie was correct. So there is a change now. Also this has happened earlier also and I don't do anything out of the ordinary, only known changes in settings. I think I have written about this experience earlier in this thread. Hope I that this did it and I can avoid reinstall windows.
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tkolsto

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I checked a 4k sdr movie batman begins. after 10 min I got a 1 framedrop. I touched the mouse and got 2 framedrops. After I stop touching the mouse and after many seconds(30 seconds) I got a new framedrop and I could clearly see a clear stutter. This is in line with what I have experienced. after touching the mouse I get a framedrop and stutter at 30 second.( I probably notice it because of motion was involved harder to notice otherwise).

OR could videoclock an/or hardware video decoding when possibel be of any help when it comes to such things like framedrops /repeated frames?

update: videclock and hardware decoding does not help. I got even got more framedrops with both ticked compare to without them ticked. when I got framedrops I got one or two simontaniously and sometimes one notice it as a stutter and sometimes not(could be that it easier to spot if motion is involved).

Also what is a consistent framedrop is after I use mouse and click on the panel( I usually got some framedrops which is normal I guess). But excactly 30 seconds later after stop using the mouse. I get a framedrop which I always see a stutter(here could it also probably be esier to see if motion is involved). 30 seconds. strange.

Update 2: comment above in this post are the use of Madvr. Now I switched to JRVR(no videoclock or hardware decoding when possible is ticked/in use) and I just watched 10 - 15 minutes and no framedrops or repeated framedrops. only when I touch the mouse I get 2 or 4 drops. But also here I get 1 framedrop after I let go of the mouse, but here it happens after 13 seconds(which is not that annoying than 30 seconds). I happens at the excact same second count every time.

update: used madvr for 10 15 minutes behaves the same as jrvr..no framedrops or repeated frames or glitches. this is of course without videoclock or hw decoding when possible in use. looks to me that videclock does a disservice to the rendering. I recon this should not be like this and videoclock is supposed to make video even smoother.
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JimH

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Do you have any software installed for your mouse?
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tkolsto

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No I have not installed mouse software.
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tkolsto

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I did not have so apparent stutter when I used mouse and panel on JRVR and on madvr I think I did not have a framedrop also. And also this stutter at 30 sec at JRVR and at 12 -13 sec at madvr is also a new problem. I really want it be better. at least the stutter at 13 sec and 30 sec. Or have anyone heard or experienced this before? what could it likely be? any suggestions..maybe buy a new clean ssd disk? Could this be disk related?

 This started after I did change to or three cpu settings in bios(which I mentioned earlier)(asrock z690 rs pro)(cpu i5 12600kf). I did reflash bios and also resetted bios(forgot how now, it is a uefi default in bios and a restart) but this stuttering(13 sec and 30 sec) happened after I tried these cpu settings. . There was  a little stutter when using the mouse and panel on jrvr, but after this it got worse on jrvr. I did not use madvr lately that much because it was poorer performance and this 30 sec stutter was not there before.

I am also going to try to play whole movies to see if there are any framdrops at all during a movie on both jrvr and madvr when not touching anything. I hope I am able to test this this week.
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tkolsto

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is a deviation clock at 0.05 or 0.07 very high?. It looks to be poorer performance now than yesterday and I can see it on on movement on the motions in the movie. no framedrops. but when I touch/use the mouse today I it is even worse even glitches and I think the picture hanged but did not result in glitche count.

now again when I play the movie covenant it is dark colorless again. than I played it again some minutes later than it was normal again.

All of this is very strange. looks like something is messed up and are unstable or something. I dont know what to do anymore. I dont think a reinstall will do it as I just did it two three weeks ago. nothing works  as it should. But VLC is also preforming poorer..it is more stutter and this is on sdr even. It used to be smooth.

I have never experience so much bad things. I almost suspect my system is a targeted by something. because when I reinstalled driver and JRiver on last friday it was very good( the stutter at 13/30 sec was probably there but I dont know that for sure now. and now on sunday and today it is problems again.

and watching batman begins on hbo max(on opera browser) it has more tiny stutter, the performance is better when I play the movie on JRvier(local file).

youtube also have a bit of stutter now.

is jitter at 18 and ping at between 30 and 50 good enough for 4k youtube streaming? internett speed is ok 100 up and down approx. but it was very strange because when I first tried it..the jitter was much higher and ping at 70 but internett speed was 90 up and down was approx 70. and then later it was better.  I have a feeling a lot crap is going on in these corona times we live in ...a lot has been worse and strange...I think all these problems are not normal. there  is too much unstability one time it is good and then some time later it is worse. I reinstall drive an jriver and it looks better and then next time it is suddenly worse. This is not normal at all.


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JimH

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I don't know what we'll learn but try running MC's benchmark (under the Help menu) and paste the results here.

Then take a look at Reporter under Services and Plug-ins in the tree.

Frame drops in the first few seconds are normal.
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tkolsto

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ok I dont bother with the framedrops that are initial or the use of the mouse. but it is strange that the hickups stutter is suddenly worse when one use the mouse also. and there is stutter at 13 sec on jrvr and 30 sec on madvr.

I shall run the benchmark. this I did not know about.
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JimH

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Problems like this are hard to solve and often turn out to be something odd.  A power supply, for example.

Take a look at the "Weird Problems" thread in my signature for a long list of such problems.
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tkolsto

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Thank a lot for helping out. Funny You should mention power supply. the power supply was the only thing I did not buy new. it is 700 watt silent version from cooler master from 2010.

here is the report. I just clicked copy and pasted in a note. was this correct?
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jmone

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Yeah.... it could easily be the PSU.  At 12yo it has had a good life and they degrade over time... leading to all sorts of weird things.

Single drops/repeats at specific intervals are drift between the CPU and GPU clocks that checked Videoclock will fix (note:  Videoclock only works if your audio is set to Decoding, not Bitstreaming).  13sec (or there abouts) is a very common interval using older nvidia drivers on 23.976fps material.  For me it was certainly improved to about 50min on the latest drivers.  I don't know why it would be different however between JRVR and MadVR (I would have thought it would be the same).

Anyway, the first thing I would do is get a new PSU into that PC.
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tkolsto

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Thank Your for helping and advice. I will purchase one in the near future!

The videoclock did not help for the stutter at 30 sec with madvr. Audio was set to "bitstreaming: none (recommended)".

Maybe I did not understand you correctly. You say that older nvidia driver can produce 1 stutter after approx 13 sec. after starting movie play and latest driver one get the stutter at 50 minutes? I would think to get a stutter at 13 sec is way better than have to wait and get it at 50 minutes, wouldnt You say? And I use the latest nvidia driver and not an old driver.
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tkolsto

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jmone  one question. the other option "hardware video decoding when possible". Is this useful? I have an Intel i5 13600kf and a msi rtx 3050. This allow to use of the  gpu when possible for decoding video. what are the benefit here?

should I tick this with this cpu gpu combo or have it unticked. when should one use this feature and what are the benefits.

Also I often does not get the OSD up when I type ctrl + j when using Jrvr. What to do to get it working.
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tkolsto

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Also I often does not get the OSD up when I type ctrl + j when using Jrvr. What to do to get it working.
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jmone

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Check "Hardware video decoding where possible" - MC will then use the 3050 for decoding (else it will use the CPU)

If Ctrl+J does not come up it means that the MC/JRVR window does not have "focus".  Click anywhere on the image then press Jtrl+J
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JimH

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I don't know why it would be different however between JRVR and MadVR (I would have thought it would be the same).
Power supply.
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JimH

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Quote
Thumbnails 46%
Build all thumbnails.  It's in Options.

You have a very high JRmark.  8300+  Are you overclocking?  If so, don't.
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tkolsto

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I played local file Batman Begins hdr 4k using Jrvr and when I dont touch anything I did not get framdrops or repeated frames or glitches. only when I use mouse I get stutter and the 30 sec 1 stutter. I played for 30 minutes. So that is good it seems. now the rendering was good when i watched the movie.

JimH No I Am not overclocking. But as I said I did change some cpu settings in bios back in may or june or so. I cant remember excactly what I did. but after this stutter became worse when using mouse on jrvr and that was probably when the 13 sec stutter came or madvr 30 sec stutter came. As I said I did reset bios to uefi default in bios settings in my asrock z690 with alderlake i5 12600kf. Alderlake intel 12th gen. is using something called e core(efficiency cores). It has 6 powercore and 4 e cores (a hybrid cpu, I think that is what is called). And I read that Windows 10 schedular does not fully how to use these e cores, but Window 11 does. but this was a comment on a forum that was from 6 or 7 months ago. It could mean that this also could be fixed now by Microsoft. But I would not bet on it, since Microsoft is poor at things like this according comments I read.

I dont know what high thumbnails mean. Could it be that some e cores are being used instead of powercores( because of bad win 10 schedular as mentioned) and because e cores are not powerful the cpu works at high speed on these e core which are actually meant for light task operations? Are there any cpu settings in bios that I should check?

If my explanation could be on to something( I understand that the schedular is deciding what task should be adressed to which cores)

I could maybe try to disable ecores in bios and run a new report?

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tkolsto

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Just ordered a new psu. But does anyone know if ssd 2.5" could cause issues like I am experience? kompatilbel issues? or are ssd 2.5" normally rock solid?

I read that corrubted files are recon as the most common problem.

"SSD Data Corruption can Cause a Drive to Fail. Thus, Leading to Loss of Data. Solid State Drive failures can stem from bad sectors or virus damage. Also, expect SSD failure from short circuits and corrupt data"

If this is the case will a format correct this or must one buy a new disk?
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JimH

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We don't see many SSD problems and your problem is erratic, not repeatable.
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JimH

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Only 46%  of your thumbnails have been built so that could be going on in the background.  Build them all.  I think it's in the Tree & View menu in options.
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tkolsto

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I think I know how: under tree&view, I click on "build missing thumbnails" and then click yes. Is it this You mean by build them all? What does this do and is this something one do one time and fix?
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JimH

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Yes.  It would eliminate the possibility of that background process being a factor in your problem.
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tkolsto

  • Galactic Citizen
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  • Posts: 354

Ok. I did a new benchmark? JRMark is still high. (version 29.0.81 64 bit): 8178. Does this affect performance/rendering/stutter?
Could this be psu related? Or how could I get this to be normal?

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