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Author Topic: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV  (Read 20449 times)

JimH

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Should be OK.
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JimH

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How about heat?  That's a lot of power.

You could try running with the case open.
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tkolsto

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I use the mainboard monitor program. Both cpu and mainboard are pretty cool. 38 - 41 degree celsius.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #153 on: September 11, 2022, 07:07:21 am »

I read the madvr hdr setting thread(beginners guide) recently posted (very popular post and one get a lot more informed about MC and its use of madvr, very nice). I activated hdr on device/tv in madvr settings and choose "let madvr decide". When I activated hdr settings in madvr it led to that my stated problem about how choppy the movieplay got when using mouse and mc panel(pause and play) got back to what is was. Now it is much much better, very little stutter when I use this. Now it is normal again.  And another positive change was that when I changed back to JRVR, this too was much much better on this(which by the way was much worse on the choppiness than madvr was when I had this problem),  and also this 13 second single stutter that happened at about 13 sec after using the panel(pause and play) this was also gone. So something was reset or nulled out this problem. So this means that the problem was not the way cpu was working after I tried cpu overclocking. It may have caused it, but the solution was inside MC and not the Cpu or windows. Now that is Solvedl!

But Now when I use JVRV the hdr movie is now darker. I have had this problem earlier too. There is more color, but it is darker. Anybody know how to get back a brighter movie playback/image?
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #154 on: September 11, 2022, 12:42:18 pm »

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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #155 on: September 11, 2022, 01:17:40 pm »

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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #156 on: September 11, 2022, 06:20:59 pm »

I am now using Madvr with very good results. but the stuttering using panel persits and it worse on JRVR like it was before. I now got brighter and more hdr look on picture image again. I think I got this by changing in madvr settings, Devices/lg electronics lg tv../properties. here I changed tv levels from full pc level range to tv levels (16-235). I have changed this before but it did nothing. but now it did.

other things I did to try to get a better stutter free rendering. I set the quality settings to best quality(mid range gpu). and set the hdr settings to , passthrough hdr to display. also set frames in advanced to 2 frames in window mode and exlusive mode.

besides madvr setting I off course ticked on both videoclock and hardware accelarated video decoding.

only thing I miss now is lower brightness on subtiles.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #157 on: September 11, 2022, 08:08:34 pm »

deleted the previous message as I think the brightness is normal. I also tink I may not have paid attention to the black bars being deep black when I have commented on this on previous posts. it is not that bright but it is not that dark either. When I used tv level (16-235) on madvr settings I got a brighter picture, but I noticed that the black bars was not deep black. Deep black is important to me. So I changed to full levels (0-255). On nvidia panel I have under resolution I set this to tv levels (16-235). I hope that I am now getting more correct colors image. I can not change to tv levels in madvr because as I just wrote..I dont get deep black bars.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #158 on: September 13, 2022, 01:01:55 pm »

About this sudden non stuttering use of the panel(JRVR or madvr). I found out why it did not stutter. I was because of one click on the button in the upper right corner. I dont know know the english name for these buttons. but the square button next to the kill "x" button. when one have stopped a movie with the stop button these buttons appear on upper right corner. and when one click on the button in the middel, the square button, you change resize MC/JRiver from showing on the whole screen or smaller size with the windows taskbar below visable. And it is the size when not showing the taskbar that allows the use of the panel without any stutter when You start the movie again. Now there might be some drawbacks when it is set in this "position" that I dont know about or havent discover yet. I think maybe it is best to not use this and instead allow panel use stuttering. Maybe somebody know about this being not a good set up. Also when I use the non stutteing setup there is a very very small shiny bit apearing in the very upper right and left corner, which is more visable right at this moment, due to I played with aspect ratio on my lg tv to toggle between on and auto to see if it made any difference and now they are more visable, strange. I have encounter this visablity appear before but I cant remember it allowing non stuttering use of the panel. Maybe it is a bad setup in any way. Anybody familiar with this and can tell me more about what this does and not does or impact it can have in a negative way ?
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #159 on: September 27, 2022, 01:22:45 pm »

I still have uneven performance when reguarding stutter or micro stutter like head movment and on other movement also. This is as I have written before I believe is stutter/microstutter that happens without repeat or framedrops. This varies very strange. But one thing have improved and that is in alien covenant there is very short scene where one see the landing vessel(very small and in the upper screen) is panning over  in a white sky. This have often been glitchy or a blury larger stutter or a blury glitch is more accurate destription. This scene looks to be solved some how now. This have often just been good on occations one or two times. Now it seems to be solved I hope. But this is on madvr. On jrvr is better but stll has a glitch.


I have the rtx 3050 and 16 gig ram and a intel i5 12600kf processor. I want to start using more quality settings on madvr or jrvr.  I have vsync on and nvidiapanel powersetting at max and all the rest recommended settings for smooth motion video play, like videoclock and hardware accelerated decoding. and on madvr settings I have chosen high quality setting and in advance settings I have set general and windowed mode to present 1 picture in advance. Osd display in madvr show that I have 41 millisecond headroom. So my question is at what level should one be on and not go over to be on the safe side. I now am about avarage 9 or 10 milisecond and max at 11 or 12. Is it safe to be on let say round about 30 ? I almost always play 23.976 hz content. but If I want all around safety and also manage 50 or 60 hz videos too. So on 23.976 hz is there a limit one should be under to stay safe? Anybody has any experience or advice on this? Is it so that the nearer one get 41 miliseconds the more likely one get stutter and even stutter without framedrops too.  or is one safe as long as max does not got near 41 milisec?


also I read here:https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013  that amd manage to not go under 10 hour without repeat or framedrop. I often lay on 7  or 8. how important is this? and is it soo that the higher this is and expecially over 10 as is recommended in the thread I pasted which amd is always doing, is this a safety for what? is just one framedrop or is that it is less likely to get messy like stutter and even stutter without framedrop. Maybe a perimeter one how thight this is performing(less chance of stutter and other irregualrities.
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eve

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #160 on: September 27, 2022, 03:55:40 pm »

I use C1s for film playback. 23/24p aren't ideal if you can avoid it... It sounds strange but let me explain.

The best result I've had is 119/120hz locked in MadVR (so re-printing each frame 5x, no interpolation) and using BFI on Low or Medium on the display. Filmmaker Mode with calibration for HDR, Dark Room Expert for SDR
MadVR Smooth Motion OFF. Any sort of interpolation or tonemapping on the display off.

I don't really know why 119/120 works better than native 23/24 with BFI but it is what it is. 25fps content should use 100hz (same with 50i).

Also if you're getting weird microstutter, make sure you don't have any GPU monitoring / logging stuff running. I had a persistent issue with Telegraf (which uses Nvidia's SMI monitoring interface) causing a microstutter every 10 seconds when it polled. With the GPU monitoring off (but telegraf still doing it's thing), the issue disappeared.



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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #161 on: September 28, 2022, 06:13:50 am »

Thanks for the advice. Very much appreciated. I am going to try it as best I can. but I have a Lg oled B1 65 inch. and I wonder what "Filmmaker Mode with calibration for HDR". Do I have to calibrate hdr filmmakermode? where do I find these calibration settings on the filmakermode? or do you just mean the regular settings.

and You say 119 or 120 hz...which one do You use most 119 or 120..because I want to find a general setting that just works. I really dont want to go change things everytime I watch a movie.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #162 on: September 28, 2022, 10:09:42 am »

Also eve. when You write lock 120and 119 in madvr...you dont mean lock this through displaysetting in jriver? Or in the madvr advanced under devices...I think it is called display mode? and one have to write ex. 3840x2160p120 or just 2160p120( is both these ways of writing ok or does in have to be written in a certain way?

so display setting automatic mode changer shall be set to off then?
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #163 on: September 28, 2022, 11:52:35 am »

eve this looks very interessting.

-In madvr I set in hdr setting under device to let madvr decide.
-I turned off all interpolation dejudder and deblur to off and bfi to medium.
-In madvr advance setting under device and displaymode I listed up these : 2160p120, 2160p119, 3480x2160p119, 3840x2160p120.
-And also in displaysetting in jriver I set it to custum and for Film 23.976fps I set this to 3840x2160p119hz(I choose 119 since this is 23.976 and not excactly 24 fps which I chose 120hz and the rest in the same maner and 25 and 50 fps is set to 100hz.
-madvr smooth off in madvr
-tonemapping of on the lg tv settings

Is there something I should do differently? because I get a lot of glitches, no framdrops. many glitches ..every second and then may pause and then several glitches ...pause..

I also get a stuttery movement and objects like spaceships having shivering stuttery image/edges.

if this stuttery performance could get even and smooth this would be an idael solution. no artifacts and or stutter

In the OSD the vsync is 8.34 ms, frame 41.71 ms. shouldnt vsync and frame be the same?
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eve

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #164 on: September 28, 2022, 02:18:24 pm »

eve this looks very interessting.

-In madvr I set in hdr setting under device to let madvr decide.
-I turned off all interpolation dejudder and deblur to off and bfi to medium.
-In madvr advance setting under device and displaymode I listed up these : 2160p120, 2160p119, 3480x2160p119, 3840x2160p120.
-And also in displaysetting in jriver I set it to custum and for Film 23.976fps I set this to 3840x2160p119hz(I choose 119 since this is 23.976 and not excactly 24 fps which I chose 120hz and the rest in the same maner and 25 and 50 fps is set to 100hz.
-madvr smooth off in madvr
-tonemapping of on the lg tv settings

Is there something I should do differently? because I get a lot of glitches, no framdrops. many glitches ..every second and then may pause and then several glitches ...pause..

I also get a stuttery movement and objects like spaceships having shivering stuttery image/edges.

if this stuttery performance could get even and smooth this would be an idael solution. no artifacts and or stutter

In the OSD the vsync is 8.34 ms, frame 41.71 ms. shouldnt vsync and frame be the same?

I'm very confused. You've definitely got something weird going on here.
Your screenshot looks essentially like what mine does (just without all the extra upscaling steps) and the frame times / vsync time is correct.
I do not need to set / touch the JRiver display settings so maybe you should turn all that off?

HDR Filmmaker Mode is just one of the 'profiles' available as a base (like Vivid) in general, at least on the C1 it's the closest to 'accurate' for HDR, especially once you play with settings.

Also you have a B1? Can that even accept 4K120 at 4:4:4 over HDMI 2.1? You don't have any fancy scaling enabled so like the 3050 should be fine.

If the B1 does support a 4K120hz 4:4:4 signal, then I'm leaning towards something on your computer.
Can you try a temporary fresh windows install on another drive with just Nvidia drivers and JRiver installed to rule out an OS/Software issue?

EDIT: Try MadVR 'exclusive mode' unless you've already tried it and your screenshot is from when you've had it windowed or whatever.

Display Mode settings in madVR should just be:  "2160p120, 2160p119" for now. Lets get 4K 23/24p stuff working to start.



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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #165 on: September 28, 2022, 03:22:23 pm »

It is very kind of You to help me. Yes there is something strange and I have done so many things. new installation of windows three time if I am not mistaken. At this time I dont think I want to go through all of that again. Is it impossible that it could be the TV and its performance?

yes b1 has hdmi 2.1 and 120 hz...what is 444? is this what one can choose in nvidiapanel instead of rgb?

And what is exclusive mode? I see there is a setting in madvr that deals with that. but how does one enter it or use it?
I saw here at jriver that somebody just mentioning it. but I have never understood what this is or how one use or enter it. it.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #166 on: September 28, 2022, 03:26:06 pm »

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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #167 on: September 28, 2022, 03:45:26 pm »

think I found out what exclusive mode is...this can be ticked in general setting in madvr adv. setting. use exclusive mode instead of direct 3d 11.... I unticked this and ticked exclusive and tried playing a hdr movie...it blinked in black many times and color was washed out.
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eve

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #168 on: September 28, 2022, 04:43:28 pm »

That's normal for it to blink black and the colors washed out for a sec. Try moving your mouse into the display window (possibly clicking it), or mousing over the OSD and back off to the display area.

The "right" way to do HDR right now is having windows ignore HDR and instead using madVR to trigger the nvapi to switch to HDR. This causes the weirdly washed out colors when focus is lost or the video player display surface isn't the 'top' item (if that makes sense)

If it still is weirdly washed out and you can't get HDR to activate, perhaps you do have something running that's causing problems here...

You have HDMI Deep Color turned on, on your LG correct? (I know the C1s require it to get 2160p 10bit 4:4:4 120hz input). Please confirm in a service / info menu if the input is actually running at your intended rate.

Quote
-Quick info: Mute 3 times

-Resolution Overlay: Green Button 8 times

-Override: Picture>Picture Mode Settings Type: 1113111

-Check: HDMI Diagnostics Settings > channels Then hover over “channel tuning” and press “11111”

This is applicable for the CX and C1, may also work for B1, if not do some googling.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #169 on: September 29, 2022, 01:55:42 pm »

You are rigth I think there something weird here and as I have known or suspected all along.

when I tick both exclusive and 3dDirect 11 on..i get the color back. but I still got those glitches and black blinking. and also when I only have exclusive on but then very low brightness colorless and also black blinks and glitches.

tried using mouse click or hover over osd and back on the screen. nothing works. only ticking also 3direct 11 will bring back brightness and colors. but stutters and glitches still happened. I think i got one time better less stutter(only using exclusive checked) but gliches count in osd still counted away. but stutter was gone i think..

tries green 8 times and it showed fixed 120 hz. see picture

- quick info mute 3 times...what should I look for here or check? This I did not know what to check or look for

-i also overrided picture mode typing 1113111. but what should I do here? everything here was on auto and on the bottom is was set to V2.

-so this hdmi diagnostics setting channels. se picture..is it that this is showing 120hz? or is it other things too?..se picture.

I have msi afterburner running to have gpu fan low so I dont have to hear it all the time.

"The "right" way to do HDR right now is having windows ignore HDR and instead using madVR to trigger the nvapi to switch to HDR. This causes the weirdly washed out colors when focus is lost or the video player display surface isn't the 'top' item (if that makes sense)"  I dont know how to trigger nvapi. I get the hdr logo when I start the hdr movie on both cased with exclusive checked and also with or without 3ddirect 11. I have madvr set in device-hdr setting to let madvr decide or should I try passthrough hdr to display? or is there anyting else I might not have understood now about your last post.

also displaysettings is off.
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eve

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #170 on: September 29, 2022, 02:20:37 pm »

You are rigth I think there something weird here and as I have known or suspected all along.

when I tick both exclusive and 3dDirect 11 on..i get the color back. but I still got those glitches and black blinking. and also when I only have exclusive on but then very low brightness colorless and also black blinks and glitches.

tried using mouse click or hover over osd and back on the screen. nothing works. only ticking also 3direct 11 will bring back brightness and colors. but stutters and glitches still happened. I think i got one time better less stutter(only using exclusive checked) but gliches count in osd still counted away. but stutter was gone i think..

tries green 8 times and it showed fixed 120 hz. see picture

- quick info mute 3 times...what should I look for here or check? This I did not know what to check or look for

-i also overrided picture mode typing 1113111. but what should I do here? everything here was on auto and on the bottom is was set to V2.

-so this hdmi diagnostics setting channels. se picture..is it that this is showing 120hz? or is it other things too?..se picture.

I have msi afterburner running to have gpu fan low so I dont have to hear it all the time.

"The "right" way to do HDR right now is having windows ignore HDR and instead using madVR to trigger the nvapi to switch to HDR. This causes the weirdly washed out colors when focus is lost or the video player display surface isn't the 'top' item (if that makes sense)"  I dont know how to trigger nvapi. I get the hdr logo when I start the hdr movie on both cased with exclusive checked and also with or without 3ddirect 11. I have madvr set in device-hdr setting to let madvr decide or should I try passthrough hdr to display? or is there anyting else I might not have understood now about your last post.

also displaysettings is off.

Wait, so you've been running afterburner this whole time? Can you please remove it and try again?


As for your screenshots, everything looks good. You're getting a RGB 4:4:4 120hz signal! So I really am at a loss here.
Quote
I dont know how to trigger nvapi. I get the hdr logo when I start the hdr movie on both cased with exclusive checked and also with or without 3ddirect 11.
Sorry for the lack of clarity, nvapi is triggered automatically by MadVR. You're getting the HDR logo popup on your display which means everything is all good. The persistent washed out colors issue is strange. I was a little unclear about your results here though, so with D11 on, you're able to get HDR that isn't washed out or blinking black (even if the video is stuttery) ?

Please please please, try to remove AfterBurner and make sure all your fan settings are normal, this is a variable we should account for and take out of the equation before proceeding.

Frankly I would never have even thought about it other than my own experience with bizarre stuttering in madVR when I first bought my OLED that was only solved by removing telegraf which was polling nvidia-smi (I discovered it because after timing the stutter, I realized it was on nearly a perfect interval and happened to remember that interval matched my telegraf config).

Your issue is super weird but I'll try my best to help you out.
You're at the very least being pretty helpful by posting relevant screenshots and trying to accurately describe your issue and steps taken thus far! That's better than I usually get.

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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #171 on: September 29, 2022, 02:27:32 pm »

i replay hdr movie and only ticking for exclusive. yes there is less stutter much less but it is difficult to see with low brightness and all..often brigthness is back one see stutter much more easily. but it sure looks better..but also the blinking all the time and glitches..it was hard to watch/detect stutter...but it was better than I have seen thus far and this is without interpolation and displayseting syncing. so it is definatly better. I am not shure how good and if it is better than syncing and use of interpolation which is the only way I got this in your face stutter..syncing alone is not enough..one had to use interpolating/dejudder also..

I also attach a picture of hdmi diagnostics..this is off course just a still picture. When I watched the hdr movie and watching vrr hz on hdim diagnostics...the hz was changing between 120/119 and even 118.
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eve

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #172 on: September 29, 2022, 03:35:21 pm »

i replay hdr movie and only ticking for exclusive. yes there is less stutter much less but it is difficult to see with low brightness and all..often brigthness is back one see stutter much more easily. but it sure looks better..but also the blinking all the time and glitches..it was hard to watch/detect stutter...but it was better than I have seen thus far and this is without interpolation and displayseting syncing. so it is definatly better. I am not shure how good and if it is better than syncing and use of interpolation which is the only way I got this in your face stutter..syncing alone is not enough..one had to use interpolating/dejudder also..

I also attach a picture of hdmi diagnostics..this is off course just a still picture. When I watched the hdr movie and watching vrr hz on hdim diagnostics...the hz was changing between 120/119 and even 118.

OH. Okay, you can attempt to disable VRR in the Nvidia settings. On my desktop display (C1 48) I use VRR, for the display in the theater room (C1 55") VRR is disabled. VRR still has issues with near blacks 'flashing', it's mostly minimized by not allowing VRR for borderless fullscreen / windowed apps (Essentially, it's 'fine' but technically non full screen VRR is a bit of a hack).

Personally, I'm not a fan of interpolation / dejuddering. You may be less sensitive to it VS sensitive to the negative qualities of 24fps content so it's a possibility to try something like that. Frankly I've been blown away by this weird solution to I guess 're-print' each frame 5x using madVR and giving my display a 119/120hz signal. I don't really understand *why* it works better than just allowing the TV to handle 24fps content natively but that's where I'm at. I think if I maybe had like a high speed 240fps camera I could point at the TV I could maybe 'see' whats happening.


Also OLEDs are dark (it's a little overblown how dark they are, especially in a light controlled room, but they're definitely darker than alternatives) so you might need to get used to that but I don't really understand what you mean by 'low brightness'.
Are you maybe speaking about the lowering of brightness caused by the BFI? That's been a little annoying for me but you get used to it. There's a handful of extremely dark parts of films / tv that I've had to turn it off on. Also, OLEDs have power saving and protection features, you should make sure they're disabled and just be mindful of static content. There's 2 options that can be disabled in a service menu which help cut down on the auto darkening 'static image' detection triggering on particularly dark scenes.

P.S: if you're interested in judder free content? There's 2 movies out there with proper 60fps releases. Billy Lynns Long Half-Time Walk and Gemini Man. Both relatively meh movies but the HFR cinematography is really something to appreciate, it's not *there* yet but it's a huge improvement over say, The Hobbit in 48fps which felt very wrong. Long Half-Time Walk has an EXCELLENT battle scene that comes really close to 'working'.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #173 on: September 29, 2022, 05:11:33 pm »

so with D11 on, you're able to get HDR that isn't washed out or blinking black (even if the video is stuttery) ?: no with D11 I still get blinking(on exclusive and D11 both ticked or either separately) but I get more colors and brightness, like normal hdr image, but with stutter in movement. there is no framedrops detected. But glitches counting regurarly..there can be a pause but only in seconds does it last.

If I could get the result with brighness and color with that looks like stutterfree(in solely in exclusive mode) motion. I tend to think if I get that I would most likely se stutter in the motion...brigthness often reveal stutter in motionscenes. But maybe this will not happen also.

So this blinking black, glitches(both create a messy picture and stutter). but if I could solve this, this would be very interresting to watch.

when I talk of washed out colors and low brightness that it what it is. I know bfi lowers the brigtness, so it is not that.  how it is on your screen ...the picture looks the same on D11 and exclusive?

vrr? is that the same as gsync eneabled in nivida panel?. when gsync enabled I am not allowed to use truemotion and bfi. I think earlier I was able to enter only bfi in hdr I think or maybe also sdr...but I defenetly was able to use bfi pro it was called. earlier was several months ago and could also be the other pc that I have with a gt 1030 card. But I am not sure anymore. I just remember there was a time that a certain setting only allowed the use of bfi and not interpolation.

removing afterburner did nothing.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #174 on: September 29, 2022, 05:40:41 pm »

i also removed asrock tool ASRock Motherboard Utility that allowed fan control and powerperformance setting which i had set at power as in high performance also allowed tweaing of cpu usage and such.

I only used this to set fan control and set it the overall peformance to max. I think it was between eco, standard and power and it was set to power. what this did I dont know excactly but I had to chose one of these three.

also afterburner. I only used this for fan control.

both the removal of these did nothing at all.

blackblinking and glitches persist. also low colors and low brightness. and now I have to hear the fans from the pc. but not the fan from the gpu. when i first tried to uninstall msi afterburner... afterward the card was silent even after restart. but the fans from the pc are noticeable.






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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #175 on: September 30, 2022, 10:35:07 am »

I tried exclusive and D11 together one more time to see. This time I did not get black blinking but the glitches persist and the stutter was there..I think the stutter was better than before but still way to much. but the blinking was gone. this was after I took a pause(went for a walk) and restarted and tried again. so that was a very welcomed surpize.

eve very bad that exclusive dont work and funny too. Because it looks very promising and looks very clean from stutter. It looks very good no stutter.

When You use exclusive..how is motion from large objects to small rapid movement like headturn or handguesture or anyting really. Do you get a smooth motion? Because if You do that is amazing and I also think I had that way back in early january or befor christmas. because in the beginning I used madvr and 120 hz because I thougth 120 hz would be amazing..not knowing source is mostly 23.976 hz. so this 5 pull down was quite good if I remember correctly. And it is very funny how bad motion is with truemotion off. it is unwatchable on my tv. only  syncing fps and hz together with dejudder at 7 and bfi at low on hdr and medium at sdr or just use auto. This is the only thing that reduce this mess. but even then there could be movies with stutter without framedrop/glitches/repeated frames. and I have experience suddenly it get more easily stutter sometimes and I dont know why (when I talk of poorer performens/stutter without framedrops..it is sometimes a bit worse and not like a lot. But a lot worse have also happened but then there is something that went wrong and I only use most commen alternations and nothing that I am not familiar with. Very tiresome.
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eve

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #176 on: September 30, 2022, 01:30:53 pm »

I get motion that looks close enough to projected film to be happy. BFI does wonders at semi emulating the 'shutter' of a projector. It's the nicest motion I've seen but I *like* 24fps and it's flaws from a cinematic perspective, other people hate it. You keep asking about stutter and stuff but I'm not sure if you're describing something that's a problem or your own sensitivity to 24fps film content.
I don't really have much more to offer in the way of support. I think you'll have to do more work on your own or ideally attempt with different hardware (new GPU maybe?) and a fresh windows install.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #177 on: September 30, 2022, 04:10:24 pm »

Thank You eve. But there is something strange and I dont think it is me. I bought the MC 30, but does not have any hopes so I dont look forward to it much. I dont know why exclusive does not work. Sad really since the motion from what I Am able to see look damm good. I used to have panasonic plasma and I never reacted bad using jriver. It was smooth as butter and top notch. I never though that much since it just works. Now it is gone. I hear talkheads talking about "true cut" which is going to have perfect motion overall. So this is  a down really because 4K took ages to be the norm and still is not the norm for a lot of people. Had I known all of this I would bought a used Panasonic and stayed as long as I could. This stutter thing is odd because my parents have an old sony led tv..and last autum it was very good in terms of motion and is just a 50 hz..and it had a decent performance..now it has much of the same stutter that I have. so something is not as it should be. And I see this in stores also it is overall. It has never been this way. many tvs in stores are led and they all used to have a much better motion before. now it is everywhere. So something is not as it should be and strange as if tech goes backwards. Two years back I was selling tvs. and I have never seen it so bad. Strange that most people does not notice it.

Yes I really like 23fps too and its flaws. But thanks again for helping me and learned something new too. But there is something strange. Yes mabye gpu or fresh install would solve it but I doubt it since I have done it 3 or 4 times now.

Update 24/4-2023: this stutter and sometimes glitchy/uneven motion that I was talking about and also noticing overall(many different tvs). This changes and sometimes it is ok and sometimes worse. I see this om my parents telly. one night it is ok and sometimes worse..and it is not some channel or one movie..it is in general overall..sometimes it is better and sometime it is bad. looks to me it is someting due to the internett(both streaming and liniear tv is through internett now).And one more thing. I always tweak my settings on my tv to see how different settings work(motion setting under "clarity" in LGs picture setting). And what I experienced yesterday at 3 am in the middle of the night. the motion got suddenly very very good. I only used dejudder at 3 and tonemapping turned off and also hdr mode off(toggle off in JRVR)(playing sdr instead). and synching fps and hz in jriver using JRVR. the motion was completely natural and fast and effortless. next day....it was back to the same ackward motion. But skipping tonemapping and hdr mode and using sdr...was better...motionwise and also when it comes to artifacts.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #178 on: October 02, 2022, 06:24:28 am »

eve one more question if I May. When you guided me to use exclusive mode and I got black blinking and a picture without brigthness(not low oled brightneess, which I know about). Could this be due to a faulty gpu?

and since You wanted me to use exclusive mode. what is it about that mode..is it that this allow exclusive use as in there is far more likely to have interfearance and problems..normally?

or anybody else could answer me?


also have You noticed when bfi is enabled the peak brigthness setting has no impact at all when setting it to off or high. but when bfi is off...setting it to high the brightness increases...but looks to be "disabled" when bfi is enabled. Just an observation and is probably as it supposed to be.
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tkolsto

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Update 24/4-2023: this stutter and sometimes glitchy/uneven motion that I was talking about and also noticing overall(many different tvs). I see this om my parents telly. one night it is ok and other nights not so good..and it is not some channel or one movie..it is in general overall..sometimes it is better and sometime it is bad. looks to me it is someting due to the internett(both streaming and liniear tv is through internett now).And one more thing. I always tweak my settings on my tv to see how different settings work(motion setting under "clarity" in LGs picture setting). And what I experienced yesterday at 3 am in the middle of the night. the motion got suddenly very very good. I only used dejudder at 3 and tonemapping turned off. and synching fps and hz in jriver using JRVR. the motion was completely natural and fast and effortless. next day....it was back to the same regular motionhandeling.
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JimH

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That could just be limited Internet (or LAN) bandwidth available.   The fact that it was much better at 3 AM suggest Internet bandwidth.

Anything that could limit the data received.  Antivirus, for example.

I think you're saying that you're viewing content via Internet.  Is that correct?
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tkolsto

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No this is a local 4k file that I always use when testing out different settings on my tv(interpolation) or jrivers JRVR hdr settings. When I download a movie sometimes I get full download speed which is 100 Mbps when seeders are good enough. And the test-speedometer is showing that it is ok. I have done the taming of defender procedure and chosen even more folders and files that is suggested. I have seen that this irratic performance of movie rendering is something that I see at my parents tv or my brother´s tv and I have seen it in tv store(could just be motion settings is off) as well. but I concentrate on my parents (which I see often) and my own tv. The very bad rendering and stuttering that I had initially or at the start of this thread, are mostly gone now. But sometimes it happens. It is something interfering and it is not JRiver software. This is very strange and it is not one movie file or tv channel  ( I dont' watch so much tv).

Anyways...I have most of the time good rendering now, either with JRVR(highly recommend and which I use) or Madvr. JRVR is unik because, 1.It is very easy to use 2. high picture quality and with low impact on your gpu. I dont know of any other renderer that deliver this combo high picture quality/very low impact on the gpu. (I chose the quality preset and even tweaked a bit more and chose FSRCNNX 8 (advanced upscaling doubling) and under advanced, I chose to untick "Allow HW decoder direct rendering on mismatches size(a qualitytrade for better performance) and also chose jinc on downscaling. In OSD the rendering shows 4.6/4.7 milliseconds which is very good imo(HDR mode). Lgs trumotion, dejudder at 6 or even 5 and BFI off.  It is much more smooth and I have less unvanted jerky or shimmering effect on the edge of moving object especially in a bright picture/high contrast senario, like the start scene(white room scene) of Alien Covenant. My gpu is msi ventus rtx 3050 8 gb and I built a new desktop back in may/June, which is updated in OP.

I Am much more happy now than in the beginning of this thread. So there most likely where many factors contributing, like my rtx 3050 gpu was brand new and got better with newer nvidia driver, Bios updates(I read several bios updates mentioning cpu performance and cpu settings), updates on the TVs firmware, and improvements on the JRVR renderer( I noticed improvement after the launching of JRiver 30) and at last one get to know how the features in JRVR and Madvr and picture settings on my tv works and what work not so good.I ended up using JRVR :-). And Madvr has been dead for a while now and dont do any developments anymore and also requires a better gpu. I also ended up on using dejudder at 6 or even 5. Set it to high, one get too much unwanted/unatural motion(the motion itself or like fast motion get glitchy or uneven). with the Lg C2 I would guess I could lower it to between 3 and 5, as C2 did a huge stepp forward in motion processing, truemotion(their interpolation tool/dejudder for 23 hz movies). C2 also got way less artifacts from the use of interpolation, much lower.

The best result I have seen is 5:5 pulldown with only Bfi at low or medium, no other truemotion/interpolation in use and lock JRiver to show 2160p119/2160p120 to force the pulldown and smooth motion ticked off(madvr setting), but I get glitches that shows up in the OSD(glitches I remove by lowering the qualitysettings in madvr), colorless and blackblinking when I use madvr exclusive picturemode setting(which I need, otherwise I get a stuttery and shimering effect on moving objects. So inbetween all the blackblinking...is see superb motion, no shimmering or stutter or microstutter. But I dont know if what I see counts, due to so much is not working as it should (blackblinking and the colorless picture could hide ex. shimmering effect on objects in motion (alien movie)). But I have looked closely and I Am pretty sure it is pretty perfect, as eve wrote earlier in the thread. That said, I Am very satified with what I get by using JRVR. I used to use dejudder at 7 and that even did not do it for me sometimes. Now I use only 5 or 6 or just choose natural motion choice in truemotion. Also the artifacts are less visable too( I aslo think Lg has got better interpolation implemented in their truemotion software through firmwareupdates). Thumbs up for Jrivers renderer(JRVR) which now is very good and more is to come, I read now on JRiver 31, especially tonemapping looks interesting :-).
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JimH

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If the downloading is what I think it is, that could easily be what is causing the data stream to be a problem.
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tkolsto

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No no...I never download while watching movie. What I describe I have seen for a long time. But it is better now somehow, less often.

recommendation for readers: There is not much about motion processing in reviews and youtube so therefore I type this here.
Sony oled A80J/K or A90J/A95K or Lg C2/G2(has strongly improved their truemotion processing compare to their previous models B1(which I have) and C1/G1 reducing much of Sonys lead in motion processing( better motion, less shimering effect on light object/high contrast scenes in motion and much less artifacts. Reguarding arfiacts, they will always be there on every tv if things go to fast). Sony is King here as they tackle tricky, unpredictable motion better without introducing too much soap opera effect (from whathifi says in their review of a95k).
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tkolsto

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delete
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eve

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Sorry you're still having issues. Glad you think 5:5 pulldown looks good, I've been very pleased doing things that way.
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tkolsto

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Yes strange that I can not use exclusiv mode in Madvr. I even tested a rtx 3070 ti with same result(without the glitching in OSD, but washed out colors and black blinking). It could just be that Lg oled B1 does not allow it and one need the more expensiv C1 model, But that is just a thought( I am left with the impression that this is hardwarerelated). I dont know why I get that behaviour. Sad that C2 and I guess C3 does not have BFI enabled on 120 hz , only 60 hz.
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tkolsto

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delete
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eve

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Yes strange that I can not use exclusiv mode in Madvr. I even tested a rtx 3070 ti with same result(without the glitching in OSD, but washed out colors and black blinking). It could just be that Lg oled B1 does not allow it and one need the more expensiv C1 model, But that is just a thought( I am left with the impression that this is hardwarerelated). I dont know why I get that behaviour. Sad that C2 and I guess C3 does not have BFI enabled on 120 hz , only 60 hz.

The display shouldn't have an impact on whether you can switch to exclusive mode or not. You're running something that is preventing the switch to exclusive most likely.
What do you install when you set these systems up?
Install Windows 10 (fresh, as in, format the existing install's drive) install the newest NVidia drivers, reboot, install JRiver. Then test.
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tkolsto

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Saw Your message now. I have windows 11 pro now. all I have done is installed nvidia driver, jriver 31, opera browser and logged inn to opera account on opera browser. installed all the windows updates and 4 mainboard drivers, realtek audio, intel inf driver, uefi restart app, and finally intel management engine driver and lan driver. no iobit software.

I can not log into microsoft account in apps advanced settings. I dont know if this is important ..it says only it has something to do with using app across your different devices.. is this important?

I may do a resinstall if this is important.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #190 on: September 16, 2023, 12:40:28 pm »

A tip! Because there are no "right" settings and there are good and bad rendering with all choices, and if one does not want to tweak and see what work and what not work, and dont mind some stutters, shivering effects and shimmering effects on moving objects in high contrast scenes,like the opening white room scene in Alien Covenant, one could just set truemotion to cinematic movement(a set and forget motion setting). In general this is a good choice. Many movies work ok with this setting, like the latest batman movie or jurassic world. Also If You want smoother motion and better panning scenes, choose Truemotion, Natural(instead of using custom settings, de-judder and de-blur(bfi), some state that the pre-choices are more fine-tuned and introduces less artifacts. I Am very happy with this setting. On Sony tv´s You just set the picture mode to "true cinema/cinema" and  You be fine. (one does not need to activate custom mode, the tv will handle it all and with very little or no visable SOE effect, if I have understood the Sony settings correct. (custom mode: smoothing and clearness settings)). Also set Cinemotion/Film mode to high and if one experience unwanted rendering, atifacts, then set it at medium.

For Sony tvs this is a good thread to read: https://www.avforums.com/threads/sony-motionflow-film-mode-settings-explained-finally.2205593/

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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #191 on: September 19, 2023, 11:55:02 am »

I think You posted on the wrong thread. This is about movie rendering and video stutter, not audio!  Please delete Your posts.
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leperlord

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #192 on: September 19, 2023, 03:04:03 pm »

i cant find the delete option

i see quote and modify

Plz advise,or can an admin remove it

i have tried
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #193 on: September 21, 2023, 05:41:47 pm »

leperlord...You could just click on modify and delete all text and just write ...delete and then click save.
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tkolsto

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #194 on: September 22, 2023, 06:36:26 am »

Thank You, much appreciated! :)
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leperlord

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Re: 4K HDR files:"stutter" on rapid movement and or vibration effect on Oled TV
« Reply #195 on: September 22, 2023, 12:07:36 pm »

Thank You, much appreciated! :)

NP mate
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