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[tkolsto]

I have a pc benq GL 2580 monitor. I used to get somewhat smooth play some 6 or 8 months back. Now it is all choppy movement. It will only display 59 or 60 hz. I think back then I was able to get sync 23.976 hz or I remember wrong and most monitors maybe dont display 23 hz.  but I at least got smooth play. Very strange that I can not watch movies anymore at my pc monitor which I could do before. I now have windows 11. Back then I had Windows 10. I have a GT 1030 2 gb card and I use 1080p movies. I have vsync enabled. I recon many people here at the forum is using a pc monitor watching movies smoothly. In osd I get 59 hz and no glitches repeated frames or framedrops during playback. It is the same on my lg oled tv B1, but there I use dejudder at 7 that give me smooth play. I have a rtx 3050 on my tv pc and if I try to render movie at 60 hz I get the same bad result as I see on my monitor.  In jriver I have done the normal settings like in general madvr advanced setting i set windowed mode to present 1 picture and not 8.

cpu ryzen i7 2700x, 16 gb ram, win 11 64 bit. ("office pc").

If most monitors are not able to do 23 hz, why is it not possible got get smooth play. Erlier I got much better motion than i do now.

What could this be? I have not watched any movies for some time now, but I never had any problem at watching movies before

[newsposter]

video drivers up to date?

[tkolsto]

second latest 517.48. installed using ddu procedure.

[eve]

I have a pc benq GL 2580 monitor. I used to get somewhat smooth play some 6 or 8 months back. Now it is all choppy movement. It will only display 59 or 60 hz. I think back then I was able to get sync 23.976 hz or I remember wrong and most monitors maybe dont display 23 hz.  but I at least got smooth play. Very strange that I can not watch movies anymore at my pc monitor which I could do before. I now have windows 11. Back then I had Windows 10. I have a GT 1030 2 gb card and I use 1080p movies. I have vsync enabled. I recon many people here at the forum is using a pc monitor watching movies smoothly. In osd I get 59 hz and no glitches repeated frames or framedrops during playback. It is the same on my lg oled tv B1, but there I use dejudder at 7 that give me smooth play. I have a rtx 3050 on my tv pc and if I try to render movie at 60 hz I get the same bad result as I see on my monitor.  In jriver I have done the normal settings like in general madvr advanced setting i set windowed mode to present 1 picture and not 8.

cpu ryzen i7 2700x, 16 gb ram, win 11 64 bit. ("office pc").

If most monitors are not able to do 23 hz, why is it not possible got get smooth play. Erlier I got much better motion than i do now.

What could this be? I have not watched any movies for some time now, but I never had any problem at watching movies before

23/24 to a 59/60 display, MadVR Smooth Motion needs to be on so it can do whatever pulldown it does.
23/24 doesn't go into 59/60, hence you need pulldown.

Also, this seems to be a persistent problem for you dude. I'm really not sure what to suggest.....  Could be Windows 11 I guess? I haven't moved any of my media playback systems over to it so I can't really comment on issues there. Did this all start when you moved to Windows 11? I have a few VMs running 11 but I haven't switched anything serious over. I'll probably have to move one of the real systems over to 11 for DirectStorage crap ( -_- ) anyways so I guess I'll report in whenever that happens

P.S, chroma scaling should be set to NGU if you can afford the processing.

[tkolsto]

tried enable motion in madvr. no change in motion. I dont think there is anyting I can do really and I now dont think that this is the neigbours tablesaw. I think it is something else and just leave it at that. Not going to speculate here on what the cause could be.  It cant be fixed for some reason.  I have watched movies many times before without any problem on this monitor.

[JimH]

You have problems that come and go.  That's not likely to be a problem in MC.

[eve]

You have problems that come and go.  That's not likely to be a problem in MC.

Agreed. This all sounds like something very unrelated to MC or possibly even MadVR. Now that you've mentioned this not happening before when you were on Windows 10, vs 11...... Dude, did you really do all these steps without trying to go back to Windows 10 and see if the issue resolves itself?

Can't really be of help here as I haven't validated 11 for my media playback purposes.
Frankly, you should stick to 10 for the foreseeable future unless you need DirectStorage, or some of the Android Subsystem features (you can get WSL2 x11 apps on 10) . Nothing else 11 does is worthwhile, it somewhat fixes HDR for desktop apps but you still shouldn't be doing HDR for you general desktop computing anyways.

[JimH]

The only way to isolate a problem like this is to change one thing at a time and test thoroughly for more than a few minutes.  It could be anywhere.  Setting up a second machine would give you the ability to swap parts, etc.

[tkolsto]

On my "office" desktop I use windows 11. I dont need to use it. So I will try sometime to revert back to 10. I have 10 on my TVPC. I dont think this has anyting to do with MC or madvr.  I been thinking lately if I missed something. I remember one incident which happened on my old TVPC when I used the gt 1030 card. I used msi afterburner and tried out an automatic overclock of the card. Afterward I tried to use it with 120hz on 4k alien covenant. It played for a very short time and then it caved in, probebly overheated. even my tv resetted itself and turned picture mode to eco which is out of the box settings and even the ratio got changed and I got black bars on both sides of the screen. I then put it in the office pc and some of the setting on the monitore also changed too because of the gt card. I looked that some crucial part of the card took a hit and it lingered in the card as I also tried it on the office pc. I dont know if some parts in a gpu it overstressed could induce some problem on to the pc somehow. The card is doing ok now as far as I know. I think I get smooth play in the new pc with sync and all the needed settings. on both pc I struggled with bad performance also with the new rtx card. Now it has since done a lot better. But that has many explanations I recon like better drivers and many other things that I tried out and more and more things have gotten better. Could a overheated gpu probably ruined other parts of a pcs or even the tv or how parts work together and that this is some delicate things that got messed up? are there maybe some parts of a gpu that is very sensitive too other parts it is in contact with that could have ruined something. this was in january.

But not the new tvpc should not be a problem since this didnt happend or used on this pc. but this pc is also vary on preformance. So I think maybe the Tv could be damage. I sounds maybe pretty unlikely maybe.

[eve]

even my tv resetted itself and turned picture mode to eco which is out of the box settings and even the ratio got changed and I got black bars on both sides of the screen.

That's super weird dude. I dunno, it seems unlikely that your GPU overheating because you decided to mess with it would break you television in such a specific manner but I guess anything is possible. Typically, breaking something like the HDMI input board will just lead to it not working but I *guess* it's possible.

Guess you're gonna have to buy a new TV? That sounds like incredibly annoying and expensive advice but hey, it might be worth it.
Weird question, are you friends with any electronics / audio dealers in your area? You *might* be able to find someone who doesn't mind you bringing a PC with a test file and trying it on a demo display like a C1 or C2.

[tkolsto]

No I dont have any such friends, but I was thinking the exact same thing. So I tried to do that where I bought the TV, but they turned me down, because of security measures. They dont allow outside pc to connect to their models. Very dissapointed because they had the C1 in their line up.

[eve]

No I dont have any such friends, but I was thinking the exact same thing. So I tried to do that where I bought the TV, but they turned me down, because of security measures. They dont allow outside pc to connect to their models. Very dissapointed because they had the C1 in their line up.

Yeah, some big box store isn't going to let you do that (nor should they, it would be a nightmare) hence why I mentioned more of a 'dealer' that you have some kind of existing relationship with.
I mean you could buy a C1 and return it, assuming the policy allows for something relatively hassle and expense free. That's pretty lame and way more effort than it's possibly worth. It would put this to rest though, or at least cross off another variable.

[tkolsto]

how about ram? could they be making trouble. I now have crucial brand.

[eve]

how about ram? could they be making trouble. I now have crucial brand.

Absolutely but unless you're experiencing general instability or outright crashes, bad ram is an unlikely culprit. Earlier this year I actually had 2 sticks of Corsair LPX go bad, it was very hard to diagnose and presented itself with frequent bsod's and ultimately a very confounding case of ssd corruption.
Why not try new RAM? You never can have enough RAM

[JimH]

I agree with Eve that, if you had a memory problem, you'd see general instability.

[PPMPPM]

I've similar problem. Many years I used MC with madvr (d3d 11 playback without lots of postpocessing and scaling) on i5-8400 with GTX 1080. Everything was super smooth on my FullHD Sony projector on 24fps. Now I've changed card to RTX 3080, install latest drivers. Rest of components or settings in programs stay the same. Games, stress test - everything is fine. But there is strange playback issue in movies. Like dropped or freezing frames in every second. But Ctrl+J info says there is no dropped or delayed frames. I think on PJ it's more present than on 4k monitor. GPU load is 15-20% max so it's not a problem.

But changing renderer to JRVR makes playback supersmooth. I think in terms of quality it's little worse from madvr but for now it's only solution to my problem.

[PPMPPM]

I forget to add that playing in another program like MPC-HC with madvr produce that same effect - jerky playback. So problem is not inside MC.

[tkolsto]

PPMPPM  Yes I also sometime when it is very bad I get framedrops and such but it is not showing in the osd. I think I had to switch playmode or just changed some setting in madvr like in pixle shader and set higlight recovery strengt to off or someting. and then it corrected itself or just open the NV panel.

I also get a small uneaven performance which is a bigger problem. I get small stutter on moving parts especially close up image like a car or a face moving and one see small stutter or hang ups..very annoying.

But what I descripe above is on my Lg oled 4k tv/monitor.

Now I am trying to find out why my 1080p 60 hz pc monitor can show 24p movies anymore. could be the gt 1030 card is broken somehow

[eve]

I've similar problem. Many years I used MC with madvr (d3d 11 playback without lots of postpocessing and scaling) on i5-8400 with GTX 1080. Everything was super smooth on my FullHD Sony projector on 24fps. Now I've changed card to RTX 3080, install latest drivers. Rest of components or settings in programs stay the same. Games, stress test - everything is fine. But there is strange playback issue in movies. Like dropped or freezing frames in every second. But Ctrl+J info says there is no dropped or delayed frames. I think on PJ it's more present than on 4k monitor. GPU load is 15-20% max so it's not a problem.

But changing renderer to JRVR makes playback supersmooth. I think in terms of quality it's little worse from madvr but for now it's only solution to my problem.

This sounds like what I had when I initially got the C1.

I had a piece of software monitoring my GPU, something called Telegraf that I use with InfluxDB for time-series monitoring across all of my hardware. Every time it would poll Nvidia SMI for the GPU stats, there was this tiny video hitch, like visually but nothing in MadVR to indicate it.

I only even thought about it because I realized that the 'interval' for these hitches happened to be the exact interval that the monitoring software uses. I wouldn't be surprised if this was long since fixed, or unique to me BUT, it's something to consider. Try seeing if you have monitoring software running.

EDIT for clarity: When this happened, the issue with Nvidia-smi, it wasn't happening on a 23/24/60hz 1080p display, only the C1 at 4K 120hz, further adding to the confusion. Seriously, it was incredibly unlikely that I was able to trace this problem to a specific piece of software, so you may have your work cut out for you and finding what's causing your problem.

[tkolsto]

P.S, chroma scaling should be set to NGU if you can afford the processing

What is so good by choosing ngu? what are the benefits and er are several ngus. I have read about it on doom9 but dont fully understands this. Is there some short answer. I get that one shouldnt use this simontaniously with super res.

from doom9: NGU Family: {variable super slow} [medium] madshi's own Next Generation Upscaling. A sharp doubling algorithm with minimal artifacts. NGU Soft, Standard, and Sharp can also quadruple the luma in one step. The Anti-Alias version is softer but reduces aliasing and is more tolerant of source artifacts. Works in Windows XP.


what is doubling? or just is there simple way of explaining what is good about this ngu setting and what is most like the best setting between standard soft and sharp or anti alias.

when I have chose pixel shader in madvr hdr setting and also set chroma upscaling to ngu default setting which is anti aliasing low, I get a rendeing time between 15 and 21 milliseconds. Is that good enough or recommended or should milliseconds be desireable to a lower value like let say approx 10 milliseconds.

[eve]

P.S, chroma scaling should be set to NGU if you can afford the processing

What is so good by choosing ngu? what are the benefits and er are several ngus. I have read about it on doom9 but dont fully understands this. Is there some short answer. I get that one shouldnt use this simontaniously with super res.

from doom9: NGU Family: {variable super slow} [medium] madshi's own Next Generation Upscaling. A sharp doubling algorithm with minimal artifacts. NGU Soft, Standard, and Sharp can also quadruple the luma in one step. The Anti-Alias version is softer but reduces aliasing and is more tolerant of source artifacts. Works in Windows XP.


what is doubling? or just is there simple way of explaining what is good about this ngu setting and what is most like the best setting between standard soft and sharp or anti alias.

when I have chose pixel shader in madvr hdr setting and also set chroma upscaling to ngu default setting which is anti aliasing low, I get a rendeing time between 15 and 21 milliseconds. Is that good enough or recommended or should milliseconds be desireable to a lower value like let say approx 10 milliseconds.

NGU is for me, the best scaling algorithm I've seen implemented in real-time, well.... It's the most consistent with a wide variety of content and produces superior results to the other scalers in MadVR and frankly, still bests the stuff I've been messing around with in MPV (occasionally, I can get better results but its content dependent). There are better scaling algorithms out there but performance / consistency isn't there yet. Now that GPU prices aren't ridiculous, I will definitely be playing with things more. I've had some success messing around with massively threading 'offline' scaling algorithms, that might prove interesting in the future.

Doubling is another 'step' where the image is upscaled larger than it should be and then downscaled again (using whatever downscale filter you use, I use ssim) . This can lead to a better final image.

[tkolsto]

ok tried it. strange that this does not look to be a problem for a rtx 3050. when I use let madvr decide. I get rendering around 6 or 7 and max at sometimes at 15. If I understand this correctly as long at this is good under the 41 millisecond headroom. This is no problem for my card or pc. when I use pixel shader I normally have a rendering at about 9 or 12 and max sometimes at 20. and with ngu on both upscaling options(image and chroma) and downscaling using ssim. I get around a bit higher 14 and max at sometimes at 26 which is far lower than the limit of 41. Now I only use the default ngu settings and under image upscaling many of the options are set to let madvr decide. Does that mean that only when madvr is set to ..let madvr decide... only then are these options used if necessary and if I have chosen pixel shader in madvr hdr settings...I have to change this from...let madvr decide to one of the setting that come up? So this is why there is not that much of an impact? thus a reason for a new gpu which could handle this. But than again I have to go to jrvr sooner of later to be able to view new movies in near future when Dolby Vison is being the norm. and using jrvr rtx 3050 is enough in most cases.

[PPMPPM]

I've done some testing. It's strange. I used latest nvidia drivers 522.25 - it's only software change since installing RTX 3080 (for test I also switch back to 471.11 - from June 2021 - same thing). When I play in madvr with D3D11 or exclusive mode then I get jerky playback (but info Ctrl+J says everything is fine, no drops or repeated frames). When I switch to madvr overlay everything is back to normal - smooth playback. With JRVR it's fine too. In my opinion quality of madvr overlay is similar to JRVR. But I think D3D11 have slight advantage - better colors and "3d like". Or maybe it's only autosuggestion

So problem is with madvr (with my RTX 3080 LHR card) not MC. I want to switch to JRVR but I can't properly set HDR to SDR conversion - I put 50, 200, or 500 in target nit but always get that same dark picture (changing value not change output brightness, shadows are crushed). With madvr everything is fine with 200.

So for now I'll stay with madvr overlay.

[tkolsto]

an hour ago I got a message from widows defender network firewall settings asking permission to allowe some functions in JRiver and listing up the the file that it was this one: local disk C/programs../JRiver media center 30/ media center 30 exe. I just allowed the functions to pass the firewall.

I have gotten this before also after some time after new install about a month or weeks aftewards.

Is this not strange when I have chosen this file to be excluded using the taming the defender procedure which is recommended here at JRiver?.

Should this happen when the file is excluded?

[JimH]

Firewall and antivirus are different.

[PPMPPM]

I found another thread with my problem: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=131139.0

And this is solution:
If you have a Nvidia 20xx/30xx video card and you encounter micro stutter while using madVR
without actually dropping frames, please try the following:
◦ In the Nvidia control panel, go to Manage 3D Settings, scroll all the way down and set
Vertical Sync to 'On'. You can do this either globally or just for the media player exe.
◦ In the madVR settings, go to rendering -> general settings, and uncheck 'enable automatic
fullscreen exclusive mode'
◦ In the madVR settings, go to rendering -> windowed mode settings, and set 'how many
video frames shall be presented in advance' to 1 or a maximum of 3

Last one solve my problem. I set to 1 and stutters gone.

Thanks to everybody. Such a helpful community.

[tkolsto]

best result is using madvr mode, tick off make 24hz and 60hz to work(hack Direct3D), smooth motion enabled( here I think this is automatically enabled when one tick of the hack Direct3D to make 24hz and 60 hz work. Forgot to mention where You find this on madvr. It is found under devices/ display modes in advanced madvr settings.

Well this makes the rendering not loose focus from every motion that happens...especially faces or other things in motion that one focus at..one get a more smooth motion...and not only a clear image when the person/face or whatever object one look at is still(not moving) and then one get a focused clear picture. Hope I explained myself good enough. It is not at all perfect but it is better.

Anyway this hack feature helps a lot, because regular monitors dont have interpolation which would be a even better solution to get a stutter and judderfree motion rendering.

and I play movies at 60 hz when I do this as my monitor can not do 23 hz even using the custumize hz in nvidia panel. I bougth a display that could sync hz and fps to 23 hz...but there where absolutley not change in this bad rendering always out of focus objects when in motion. So I sent it back.

[JimH]

You shouldn't have to use madVR any longer.   JRVR is better for most cases and uses less power.  It's also easier to set up.

[tkolsto]

Jim You are correct. I really dont know why the rendering was so choppy stuttery. I updated another thread that I started some time back, where I wrote that after I installed windows 11 pro and installed latest jriver 31 version 36 and just used the nvidia driver windows installed. I did nothing in jriver other than set displaysettings auto mode changer to auto and I also loaded the lightest settings in JRVR. Now I just tested with 1080 p jurassic world and it was way more pleasent and that at 60 hz so it does 3:2 pulldown, but it is just rendered more smooth now. I dont know why that is. The way motion is rendered now is more easy on the eyes and not so shivery and clear stutters. So this was a very pleasent change. So I remembered this being like this way back and now it is normal again after installing windows 11 pro. I did not bother to try a movie because I thought it was just the way things have become and then it was back to normal, like I remembered it to be(I hestiated on my memory since I only had played only a few movies before I experienced the bad rendering of movies.).