Topic: OT - Can we talk about the war here (Read 10226 times)

sub-24 · « **on:** March 04, 2003, 11:39:30 am »

And if so what do you americans think of the european effort in the war against terrorism.

Also an opinion of Tony Blair would be nice.

sub-24 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2003, 12:33:45 pm »

Also a simple question - Should we do it.

Yes or No!!!!!!

Listening to: 'Tug Of War' from 'Wingspan: History' by 'Paul McCartney & Wings' on Media Center 9.0

JimH · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2003, 12:46:35 pm »

Mike,
If any country in the world had seen as senseless an act of violence as the one we saw against two skyscrapers and a few thousand civilians, I think that country might feel differently about what it needed to do to protect itself.

I think the days of leaving "rogue states" alone are over. There is too much at stake.

I'd prefer to leave disussion of war out of this forum. I doubt whether it will make anyone happier or better equipped to make a decision about whether this war is just.

But I'll leave this open until later tonight in case anyone else wants to say something.

Thanks for asking.

Jim

fex · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2003, 01:24:35 pm »

Quote

Mike,
If any country in the world had seen as senseless an act of violence as the one we saw against two skyscrapers and a few thousand civilians, I think that country might feel differently about what it needed to do to protect itself....

Sorry, you missed a little detail. Iraq is not Afghanistan.

So with this argument you could attack any other country on our world. I suppose many Americans are mixing up a few things (for ex. they always mix up Sweden with Switzerland

). There is no proofed connection between Bin Laden and Iraq. Besides a student's theory, many years old and presented by Tony Blair (what a shame

).

I'm absolutely against Hussein, but this way is not the right way! Official "USA" stands alone and don't realize it (or only in little steps). Ok, Italy is on your side

.

And what's about Korea and his nuclear wapons? They do it officialy and America (self called "world police") does nothing at all. Seems to be a little inconsequent.

Could'nt stand to write this.

Fex

MachineHead · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2003, 01:35:12 pm »

JimH-

Did you get a Strib today? If so, did you read the commentary section? Quite thought provoking considering it comes from an offshore source.

Neanderthaler · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2003, 01:40:02 pm »

"I think the days of leaving "rogue states" alone are over. There is too much at stake. "

I agree with you on that matter Jim, but who is that to decide, I mean in that case USA can just say that my country is a rogue state, and OOPS where in danger now!
You also know just as I do that in high places people can manipulate a lot to make it the way they want to see it.
Now in the case of Iraq they are most likely right, but the USA is in my opinion too arrogant towards the other countries that have a different opinion
And let's be frank, it is terrible what happened to your country, but that does not let the USA rule the world by it's own

KingSparta · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2003, 01:47:43 pm »

>> There is no proofed connection between Bin Laden
You don't know that, and it does not need to be a connection "Bin Laden"

It is more does he have a connection with tourists? The answer is yes

I have been to Iraq, I know what he has

I have seen it.

>> And what's about Korea and his nuclear weapons?
They have had them for years, They had them when I was in Korea back in 1989

N Korea is full of hot air

>> They do it officialy and America
>> (self called "world police")
I wish we were not the world police but it looks like Us and a few other countries like to help people have there freedom from dictators.

somtimes i wish we would stay out of it, but then the world would cry and ask for our help after many have died AGAIN.

MachineHead · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:02:05 pm »

How about this for a little poke in the brain:

April 18, 1991 U.N. Resolution 687. Iraq waited an entire 15 days before breaching this resolution. Search the Internet and you may find out what this resolution was. It basically says: Iraq must disclose the locations, amounts, and types of its chemical and biological weapons, 'All' nuclear weapons-usable materials and disclosing the location of Scud and other ballistic missile types with a range of more than 90 miles. They agreed to this resolution. They means the U.N. Over 3000 days ago. Some rush to get into a war with this.

Here is a quote:

"The idea is that any use, even after successive acts of war against America, requires the permission of France, Russia, and China, which have not sought U.N. blessings for their respective military interventions to discipline the Ivory Coast, to grind the Chechens into submission and to suffocate Tibet".

Yep, dogs of war we are. Better take a look at the rest of the SOB nations that just say F*** *** and start their own private little invasions before saying we are the instigators in all matters of this type.

KingSparta · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:08:13 pm »

>> U.N. blessings
I thought it was a mistake to ask in the first place.

I knew how it would turn out, If they can vote Khaddafi In To Be In Charge Of The Human Rights Forum they don't have the right frame of mind, It's abit of wacko really.

The plug needs to be pulled on the UN, and we should stop sending US aid Out to countries who stab us in the back at every turn.

zevele10 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:16:08 pm »

My question is why there is a need to start the same war 12 years after?
Why not to finish all 12 years ago?

So let's say that because the father did not had big balls enought , the son will finish it 12 years after.

If there is a need to this war or not , i just do not know.
And yes Irak is not Aghanistan .
Dont make sense to have let things running for 12 years.

Now ,unlike 12 years ago , a VERY BIG Pandora box is waiting to be open soon . And i do not see the americans subtle enought to deal with it.

Anyway , yes will be war in few days/weeks. At this point ,this is even not the big news.

Of - maybe- more implications is the riff US/Europe.

There is many good raisons , and many wrong raisons to Europe behaviour.

Europe wants to show US that there is not only them on earth , and tell ' go on your own , just say things as they are: YOU want to attack. Not the UN. So do not try to have a proxy.
The UN may explode ,and i think this is good news.
There is a need for a new structure , not as absurb as today .
Or if still the same structure , with another 'soul and mind'

There is also the very strong anti-american feeling. From top to bottom.

Bush is see as a kind of religious integriste gouverning for a part with the bible.
Around him are the same people than around Nixon and his father. With real facists as Lydon Larouche.
He is see more as a cowboy who just know how to use his guns , much less how to use his head.

There is all the commercial/trade problems that most americans do not know about, but very well know and disliked n Europe.

And , for Europe ,USA is a rogue state , because of the death penalty.
You cannot be a member of the europeen union if you have death penalty in the laws of you country.

I know you do not realise it , but it is a very heavy burden for the american image. And from head of states to people in the street there is a strong feeling about it in Europe.

Some may answer, here on this post , to Europe " mind your own mess' and it is exatly what Europe says to US right now.

Of cause there is also ,like in France , the fact that ,like it you do not have to think about your own s-h-i-t.
You gave a real facist a big % of voices , and 'to forget' you protest in the streets against US .

Anyway ,no matter if they are rigth or no , americans would be even more disliked in few weeks from today.
Not funny and - i am sure- hard to understand for anyone living in this country.
Only here we love them.

Still no answer if need to go to war or not , but if you make me the commandant ,it is not only Irak i would care about........

PS: because i need a llooong time to type i did not se posts after the Fex's one when giving my opinion

JaredH · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:28:30 pm »

Well think of it this way......you look at kuwait....the only way we agreed to help them 11 years ago was under the premis that they become a democratic nation......well...they are still a sheikdom.......but has the US pushed to change that.......not noticable......this is because if you have been to kuwait recently, seen pictures, or talked to anyone that lives there, youl find that they have turned into nothing short of a capitolist economy. America got what they wanted. Kuwait now resembles just about any of the 50 states in the US. Now Bush' argument that the reason he isnt dealing with the Isreal/Palestine issue is because Iraq is the cornerstone to the foundation of turning the middle east into a Democratic region. He says that by Making Iraq a democracy, that it will spread to the east through syria, and jordan, and into Isreal and Palestine, thus solving the Isreal/Palestine issue. Well whose to say that once Iraq is cleansed of Hussein, that Bush wont all but completely pull out of the area and let things go the same way Kuwait has. Kuwait is not of the same culture it was 11 years ago. the US got what they wanted with Kuwait, the oil, and capitolism. Now i know that sounds like a typical fundmentalist muslim comment, but its true....If all goes the way bush is talking about.....the entire middle east will become one gigantic capitolist region. Bottom line, in essece, it is more of a push to deculturalize these people. I personally am a christian and dont agree with everything that goes on over there, but doing anything that strips a people of their cultural values, beliefs, and environment, is wrong. If they are going to change, let them hange on their own. This is almost as if Bush is out there leading his own 21st century Crusade. Saddam needs to be taken care of, there is no doubt about that, but this has become a full scale attack on the middle eastern culture as a whole, and not Saddam.

fex · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:29:31 pm »

Quote

>> There is no proofed connection between Bin Laden
You don't know that, and it does not need to be a connection "Bin Laden"

It is more does he have a connection with tourists? The answer is yes

I have been to Iraq, I know what he has

I have seen it.

I'm sure you saw Bin Laden on his side. That's what Bush is talking about the last few months, so you have to believe it...

Quote

>> And what's about Korea and his nuclear weapons?
They have had them for years, They had them when I was in Korea back in 1989

N Korea is full of hot air

The resoulution is very old. And nobody cares. Why?

Quote

>> They do it officialy and America
>> (self called "world police")
I wish we were not the world police but it looks like Us and a few other countries like to help people have there freedom from dictators.

Who tells you that the Iraqis don't want Hussein? Let them do, what you do in USA. Bush rules and most follow. There is absolutely no rigtht to fight and kill them (or do you really think the war only meets Hussein? What about the other thousands and thousends killed? Do you really think you'll help them this way?).

Quote

somtimes i wish we would stay out of it, but then the world would cry and ask for our help after many have died AGAIN.

Agree. But why dont wait until "they" cry? Why only fight for the actually interests of USA (oil)? Against most other countries, against UNO? Give me one reason.

Fex

zevele10 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:29:46 pm »

I knew how it would turn out, If they can vote Khaddafi In To Be In Charge Of The Human Rights Forum they don't have the right frame of mind, It's abit of wacko really

SYRIA is at the security conseil ! ! ! ! !

Dictature, giving shelter to terroristes and nazi criminals.
Great friend with North Corea - buying a lot of arms-
occupying a country since years , Liban.

And one of the 8 seats at the security conseil! ! !

So if you can trust such an institution...
UN is just a non sense, kind of mad and stupid hudge machine.

fex · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:40:52 pm »

It's a difficult question - and I think there is not an absolute "right" or "wrong". And it will happen anyway, otherwise the US Nation will loose the face. So let it happen.

It's very easy.

Fex

KingSparta · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:41:27 pm »

>> Why only fight for the actually interests of USA (oil)?
If this is true why did we stop last time?

>> Who tells you that the Iraqis don't want Hussein?
They do, and did but can't speak there mind because they are afraid of being killed.

It amazes me how people talk about something they know nothing about and want to stick up for Hussein a man that killed his own son and 10's of thousands of his own people.

Genocide, it reminds me of Germany 1930's - 1940's

fex · « **Reply #15 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:47:39 pm »

"little poke in the brain":
Just a little question. Do you know who helped Hussein to overtake the gouvernement years ago? Who delivered him weapons over years and years? Yes, USA. I'm wondering, why nobody want's to know something about this fact today anymore.

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:51:25 pm »

Quote

I personally am a christian and dont agree with everything that goes on over there, but doing anything that strips a people of their cultural values, beliefs, and environment, is wrong.

It used to be a signature value of this country that religious beliefs were respected.

I see that seriously weakened by the Christian Right in the U.S.

Jared, I respect your beliefs, your right to worship whatever you want. I really mean that.

I don't think that what Bush wants will show the same respect for mine, which are not Christian.

I saw a great bumper sticker recently:

FAITH BASED MISSILE DEFENSE!

Listening to: 'Histoires d'Amour (Bolero)' from 'On Holiday' by 'Cafe Accordion Orchestra' on Media Center 9.0

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:55:33 pm »

Quote

I think there is not an absolute "right" or "wrong". And it will happen anyway, otherwise the US Nation will loose the face. So let it happen.

I don't think you can be sure of that. At least, I'm not.

MachineHead · « **Reply #18 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:57:01 pm »

Quote

Just a little question. Do you know who helped Hussein to overtake the gouvernement years ago? Who delivered him weapons over years and years? Yes, USA. I'm wondering, why nobody want's to know something about this fact today anymore.

Oh please, tell us all something we didn't know. Iran and Iraq at war. Iran has take American POW's from an embassy! Iraq ain't no friends of Iran at the time. Hmmm, who would you turn to get your people out? Would you have known twenty plus years ago what the future would hold?

Better get a better arguement then that.

KingSparta · « **Reply #19 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:57:25 pm »

>> Do you know who helped Hussein to
>> overtake the gouvernement years ago?
I did not say we were perfict

For that matter you can say the same thing about Bin Laden.

Sometimes when you get in bed with someone late at night and you been drinking, they look good, but when you wake up they don't look all that good.

fex · « **Reply #20 on:** March 04, 2003, 02:57:47 pm »

>>It amazes me how people talk about something they know nothing about and want to stick up for Hussein a man that killed his own son and 10's of thousands of his own people. Genocide, it reminds me of Germany 1930's - 1940's<<

And where do YOU take the right today to kill thousands of Iraqis? Iraqis who just want to be free?

fex · « **Reply #21 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:00:30 pm »

Quote

>> Do you know who helped Hussein to
>> overtake the gouvernement years ago?
I did not say we were perfict

For that matter you can say the same thing about Bin Laden.

Sometimes when you get in bed with someone late at night and you been drinking, they look good, but when you wake up they don't look all that good.

Maybe "they" should let their fingers off from such things... And not make this mistake today again - and again - and again

.

Listening to "Again And Again" - Status Quo

MachineHead · « **Reply #22 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:08:11 pm »

Quote

And where do YOU take the right today to kill thousands of Iraqis? Iraqis who just want to be free?

fex-

Are you being a Troll here? Can you define how living under a Dictator is free? Please explain this with some serious answers.

zevele10 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:09:20 pm »

if Bush is out there leading his own 21st century Crusade
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yes. But he was like it before , not something new. He was elected by people knowing it.

-=I see that seriously weakened by the Christian Right in the U.S. -=-=-

it is as much a problem as Bin Laden is

-=-=-=FAITH BASED MISSILE DEFENSE! -=-=-=

-Against the only seculer state in the region.......

But not faith is as bad that not the same fath for many....

-=-=-=-=kill thousands of Iraqis-=-=-=

Who care about killed people?
If they are not your family or your own people , you just dont care .
It is a fact of life

KingSparta · « **Reply #24 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:09:59 pm »

>> And where do YOU take the right today
>> To kill thousands of Iraqis?
That’s a bit over blown

Most of them will give up, and the reason they did last time is they don't like Hussein.

I was 150 miles from bagdag last time, and I wish we would have finished the job. I would have done it my self if they would have let me.

My wife is a bit more Anti-Iraq she wants to Nuke the whole country, then move to N Korea and nuke them.

I have to holed her back sometimes, and she is a democrat.

KingSparta · « **Reply #25 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:12:28 pm »

>> Are you being a Troll here? Can you define how
>> living under a Dictator is free?
Not sure where he is from, maybe france

The wine is mixed with Anti-freeze still?

MachineHead · « **Reply #26 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:16:52 pm »

Quote

The wine is mixed with Anti-freeze still?

Ouch!! You must know some street fightin' skills.

JimH · « **Reply #27 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:18:31 pm »

And what about the lowly muskrat? Did you ever think of his troubles?

Last night I arrived at my driveway to find a lady standing in the street beside her Mercedes SUV, and a policeman on his knees with a tire iron, poking it into the front left wheel. Snow on the ground, ice all around, perfect ingredients for an accident.

I parked my car in the drive and walked over to see what was going on.

"I've got a muskrat in my wheel and he won't come out."

If you're from France or Germany or some other place where there are no muskrats, think of a very fat rat who lives in a swamp and eats grass. They're not standard equipment on Mercedes SUV's.

So Officer Friendly was poking and poking and nothing was happening. I poked a while with a stick. Nothing happened. Neither of us wer crazy about trying to grab the muskrat. He was very quick about changing positions on the inside of the wheel, curled around the brake.

We decided to try moving the car a few feet forward to see if we could make Mr. M dizzy and want to come out on his own.

It worked. He hopped out and sat beside the wheel. Madame SUV inched slowly forward, hoping not to crush the muskrat or the officer.

When she was twenty feet ahead, I approached the muskrat. He stood on his hind legs, took a look and leaped at me. I leaped backward, then realizing how foolish I must look, took a little leap forward.

After a few more half-hearted leaps on the part of the muskrat and myself, we retired to our separate corners.

I think he's looking for a ride back to his swamp tonight.

zevele10 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:20:01 pm »

click on his name , you will know the country.

But you have to listen to him.
You may understand why you are so impopular.

Fex : go on....

KingSparta · « **Reply #29 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:20:32 pm »

>> Ouch!! You must know some street fightin' skills.
hehehe

Yea Like "Your Mama Is So Big"

don't try it alone and without street lights.

zevele10 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:23:02 pm »

By the way , did you get my record?

MachineHead · « **Reply #31 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:23:36 pm »

JimH-

Watch it if one ever decides to make an appearance thru an ice-fishing hole. Total mayhem. And one smug mushrat.

KS-

I personally prefer " Your Mama is so ugly..."

KingSparta · « **Reply #32 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:24:33 pm »

Quote

click on his name , you will know the country.

But you have to listen to him.
You may understand why you are so impopular.

Fex : go on....

where is Switzerland? and do they produce anything?

fex · « **Reply #33 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:28:54 pm »

Quote

fex-

Are you being a Troll here? Can you define how living under a Dictator is free? Please explain this with some serious answers.

King said, that all Iraquis want to be free (besides Hussein

). If I understand it rigth, U.S. plans a war against Iraq. How do you want to manage this without killing thousands of the other ones? The innocent ones? Besides Hussein? Could you explain this to me? In easy words...

fex · « **Reply #34 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:30:26 pm »

Quote

where is Switzerland? and do they produce anything?

We delivered weapons on World War II to the Germans. We took all the money and the gold. So we are really rich now.

And don't tell me you don't know the swiss army knife...

KingSparta · « **Reply #35 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:34:14 pm »

>> Could you explain this to me?
like I said most of them will give up.

I had a long conversation with about 300 of the Iraq people we were holding as they ate there pork patties and ham slices.

they told us where all the chemical rounds were (we blew them up before we left) that were at the ammo dump we were at and they wanted to leave the country with us but we could not take them.

the said they would be killed if we left them there, i am not sure what happened to them but we had to go.

zevele10 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:36:17 pm »

swiss army knife...
In California the autority who confiscate them at airports sell it on Ebay..... to fund i do not remember what..........

Ils ne sont pas net , tu as raison!

fex · « **Reply #37 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:40:40 pm »

Quote

like I said most of them will give up...

And you don't care at all about the other few thousands? If there is anoter way than war? I really don't understand you. Maybe I should talk with your democratic wife

.

zevele10 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:42:28 pm »

=-=-anoter way than war=-=-

wich one after 12 years of this game?

rocketsauce · « **Reply #39 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:43:59 pm »

Quote

Bottom line, in essece, it is more of a push to deculturalize these people. I personally am a christian and don't agree with everything that goes on over there, but doing anything that strips a people of their cultural values, beliefs, and environment, is wrong. If they are going to change, let them change on their own. This is almost as if Bush is out there leading his own 21st century Crusade. Saddam needs to be taken care of, there is no doubt about that, but this has become a full scale attack on the middle eastern culture as a whole, and not Saddam.

I agree completely. Bush's motives are suspect. Imperialism, not democracy, is the real agenda here.

Rob

http://www.drparsons.fsnet.co.uk/georg.html

Bush Jr.'s Skeleton Closet :
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm

George W. Bush Scorecard Of Evil:
http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html

MachineHead · « **Reply #40 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:47:11 pm »

fex-

Don't use your civilians as human shields. Don't place your weapons in museums, schools, places of worship, civilian domiciles. The USA has no interest in killing civilians. Make no doubt about that. They want the leadership out. Plain and simple. However, if the leadership in question uses tactics that are banned from warfare, and then says, 'They bombed a school'. Well, judging from his past history on using civies as targets and shields, who is the real bastard here?

There are always casualties that are not hoped for. And dirty tactics may lead to the cause of these as much as anything else. At this point, the USA does care enough about the people of Iraq to not just flatten the country and make it a parking lot. And make no mistake, if there is one country that could do it, it is the US. The world knows this. With remarkable restraint, we hold on for better solutions than just blowing the piss out of some third world piece of dirt dictatorship. Like it or not, that is a reality on this planet.

KingSparta · « **Reply #41 on:** March 04, 2003, 03:52:38 pm »

>> And you don't care at all about the other few
>> thousands?
I do, but i care more of the 10's of thousands that will die because we left him in charge.

Should we have let Hitler kill 6 million more jews?

sometimes you need to take life to give life

zevele10 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 04, 2003, 04:03:50 pm »

Don't use your civilians as human shields. Don't place your weapons in museums, schools, places of worship, civilian domiciles. The USA has no interest in killing civilians. Make no doubt about that. They want the leadership out. Plain and simple. However, if the leadership in question uses tactics that are banned from warfare, and then says, 'They bombed a school'. Well, judging from his past history on using civies as targets and shields, who is the real bastard here?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

You make a point.
It is the same here with terroristes taking shelter in buildings where people live or moving around with chidrens.
They know we want to get them. And it is normal , part of the rules that we want to get them.
If i bomb his car with his kids inside or a building with people inside to get them , this is not my problem , this is THEIR problem
Don't use your civilians and family as human shields.

JimH · « **Reply #43 on:** March 04, 2003, 04:11:14 pm »

Quote

By the way , did you get my record?

Pas jamais? Pas encore?

Not yet. Je regarde.

MachineHead · « **Reply #44 on:** March 04, 2003, 04:12:28 pm »

zev-

It's an awful point. One that should never have to be heard of anywhere.

Grab a baby! They won't shoot you then! Makes my skin crawl thinking that someone would do it in the first place.

zevele10 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 04, 2003, 04:21:02 pm »

Pas encore = not yet

The adress is the one from the site with 'to Yonatan" - must be.
Do not know how long it takes from California to up north with regular postage

Charlemagne 8 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 04, 2003, 04:23:51 pm »

I go back and forth on this. I want Hussein out but I question Our motives. I'm also opposed to the death penalty ... most of the time. I want the U.S. to work with the U.N. but not if they're going to be a bunch of weenies. When allies like France and Germany say no to war, I think we should pay attention ... but then again maybe their motives are questionable.

Hussein uses civilians to shield his bombing targets ... what do you suppose is going to happen to those peace protesters who went to Baghdad? I have no doubt that they WILL become hostages.

Nobody likes a bully ... but who is the bully? Saddam or George? Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself no matter who is for or against you ... but that doesn't mean to h*** with your friends.

The bottom line is information ... which none of us has or ever will have all of it ... or even enough of it.

CVIII

zevele10 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 04, 2003, 04:30:16 pm »

mean to h*** with your friends

h*** ==? ?
send me a message

KingSparta · « **Reply #48 on:** March 04, 2003, 04:36:11 pm »

>> what do you suppose is going to happen to
>> those peace protesters who went to Baghdad?
more than 24 of them went home the other day, because they were afrade of there safety.

If they want to give there life to protect Hussein who supports evil so be it.

They can be part of the landscape.

JimH · « **Reply #49 on:** March 04, 2003, 04:37:39 pm »

Quote

Pas encore = not yet

The adress is the one from the site with 'to Yonatan" - must be.
Do not know how long it takes from California to up north with regular postage

Maybe 4 or 5 days, sometimes a little longer.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: OT - Can we talk about the war here (Read 10226 times)

fex

MachineHead

MachineHead

zevele10

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zevele10

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MachineHead

fex

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