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[mattkhan]

deleting the registry entries fixed it, fwiw it previously had

2C0000000001000001000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFB1000000D40200000707000 050080000

same thing happened again, it stuck in full screen and won't remember the setting, different value this time

Code: [Select]

2C00000002010000
03000000FFFFFFFF
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
FFFFFFFF7BFFFFFF
8A00000022060000
06060000


[Hendrik]

Make sure you dont position it half way offscreen, I think it doesnt like that.

[BryanC]

Is anyone else running into a/v sync issues every once in a while recently? Video will glitch and then audio goes out of sync, I usually just switch audio tracks back and forth and it's fixed, maybe once every 30 minutes or so. I figured it was just my hardware, but it's happened on a few different filetypes now and just started recently (within last couple weeks of builds) so I thought I'd ask. Up-to-date W11, Intel iGPU using HDR passthrough, everything (besides content) at 60hz. Lots of recent driver and windows updates too so I can investigate.

Do you recommend using VideoClock with JRVR? I haven't tried disabling it but perhaps it's contributing to the issue.

[BryanC]

Since no one else was having issues I ended up doing a clean reinstall of the latest Intel graphics drivers and my lip sync problems have disappeared. It felt like a driver problem all along, hopefully this can help someone else out if they run into the same thing.

[Manni]

Just installed V31 and started playing with it.

First of all, congrats on the progress on JRVR, the DTM has much improved.

I have a few questions:

1) I use a DCI P3 with a 2.4 gamma as a baseline for my JVC NZ8. When using JRVR set to P3 / gamma 2.4, the gamut looks right but it looks like there is some black crush (confirmed with the S&M brightness pattern). What are the correct options to get proper DTM? This is without a 3D LUT first. [EDIT: I selected a 30000:1 custom contrast, which is the native contrast of the PJ with the current settings, laser dimming disabled].
2) Re 3D LUT, I'm assuming we can use any 3D LUT created for madVR using Colorspace / Calman / DisplayCal, am I correct? If so, can we target gamma 2.4, or do we have to target gamma 2.2 for the LUT to be valid?
3) Re vertical shift for black bar detection, it's great to see that you plan to add this feature. Two questions about this: 1) Any ETA for this to be implemented and 2) I understand that the black bar detection is done offline to save processing time, when adding the files to the library. I use JRiver as a player with CMC as a front end. Please can you make sure that the metadata will be used for the vertical shift even when using JRiver as a player, as long as the metadata is present in the library for that title? Vertical shift is a key feature on my 16/9 screen.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

Once I've resolved these set up questions, I'll do more testing and will report back.

[JimH]

There's a thread here you could read.  Start at least half way through.  It got lots better near the end.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136378.0.html

Hendrik is our developer.  haasn is the author of libplacebo.

There's also a black bar thread somewhere.

[mattkhan]

I think you need Hendrik to answer as I don't believe any of this is documented anywhere. I asked various Q's in this in some threads so will try to summarise

1) I use a DCI P3 with a 2.4 gamma as a baseline for my JVC NZ8. When using JRVR set to P3 / gamma 2.4, the gamut looks right but it looks like there is some black crush (confirmed with the S&M brightness pattern). What are the correct options to get proper DTM? This is without a 3D LUT first. [EDIT: I selected a 30000:1 custom contrast, which is the native contrast of the PJ with the current settings, laser dimming disabled].

Not sure what proper means but ime (JVC n7, dci p3, gamma 2.4) any black point adjustment produces an overly saturated image so I go with no such adjustment (the oled option in the contrast dialog) which dials it down. I suspect this may similarly ameliorate your black crush but not tested that myself.

2) Re 3D LUT, I'm assuming we can use any 3D LUT created for madVR using Colorspace / Calman / DisplayCal, am I correct?

It accepts madvr format lut, it does produce the same output as madvr when configured currently with a displaycal lut (can't speak for the other apps but would guess they are ok too)

If so, can we target gamma 2.4, or do we have to target gamma 2.2 for the LUT to be valid?

I haven't seen it said that there is such a limitation. The 3dlut gamma (tone curve) option should be set to bt1886 though (for me it's not so intuitive but it's what is required to match madvr when using a displaycal generated lut and appears to be independent of any user controlled settings in displaycal)

One point of difference btw is that jrvr does not do anything to the video card gamma table so ensuring the contents of this is left to the user to handle

[Manni]

Thank you both.

I'll wait for Hendrick's reply re black bar detection and picture shift.

I'll post in the other thread re the gamma and DTM issues.

[Manni]

Happy to report that I've resolved my set up issues (it was a levels mismatch).

Any chance to get a reply from Hendrik re the vertical picture shift feature related to black bar detection?

1) will it work when JRiver is used as a player rather than a front end, provided the title is in the library and the black bars have been detected during import? I use JRiver with CMC
2) any ETA for this feature?

thanks!

[Movieman]

Just installed V31 and started playing with it.

First of all, congrats on the progress on JRVR, the DTM has much improved.

I have a few questions:

1) I use a DCI P3 with a 2.4 gamma as a baseline for my JVC NZ8. When using JRVR set to P3 / gamma 2.4, the gamut looks right but it looks like there is some black crush (confirmed with the S&M brightness pattern). What are the correct options to get proper DTM? This is without a 3D LUT first. [EDIT: I selected a 30000:1 custom contrast, which is the native contrast of the PJ with the current settings, laser dimming disabled].
2) Re 3D LUT, I'm assuming we can use any 3D LUT created for madVR using Colorspace / Calman / DisplayCal, am I correct? If so, can we target gamma 2.4, or do we have to target gamma 2.2 for the LUT to be valid?
3) Re vertical shift for black bar detection, it's great to see that you plan to add this feature. Two questions about this: 1) Any ETA for this to be implemented and 2) I understand that the black bar detection is done offline to save processing time, when adding the files to the library. I use JRiver as a player with CMC as a front end. Please can you make sure that the metadata will be used for the vertical shift even when using JRiver as a player, as long as the metadata is present in the library for that title? Vertical shift is a key feature on my 16/9 screen.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

Once I've resolved these set up questions, I'll do more testing and will report back.

I have found that BT.2020 gamma 2.2 seems to work best for me on my RS3100. No LUT in use.  No clipping on white or black, verified with test patterns. All PJ settngs default. 

P3 gave me a darker image and clipped blacks as well I could improve with brightness / contrast adjustments in the NVidia CP.

[Manni]

I have found that BT.2020 gamma 2.2 seems to work best for me on my RS3100. No LUT in use.  No clipping on white or black, verified with test patterns. All PJ settngs default. 

P3 gave me a darker image and clipped blacks as well I could improve with brightness / contrast adjustments in the NVidia CP.

Thanks, but as I said in my previous post just above yours, my issues were entirely due to a levels mismatch issue. With P3 / gamma 2.4, I get the expected picture and there is no need to make any adjustments anywhere. No shadow details loss and no highlights clipping.

I am using the native gamut in my rs3100 (profile off / filter on) as a baseline, which is tracking very close to P3 (I calibrate with a C6 profiled to an i1pro2), and gamma is calibrated to 2.4 precisely using an internal 1D LUT, so there is no doubt that these are the correct values here and that the software is working cas intended with the correct levels and matching settings. Now that the setup is correct, I’ll try a 3D LUT.

You can only use P3 if you use the native gamut or the DCI profile. If you haven’t measured your gamma, there is no way to know which one to use, as the factory presets can be significantly off if you haven’t autocaled them recently.

Very impressed with the DTM in JRVR in MC31 (build 36), it’s a huge improvement over the previous versions.

[Movieman]

Thanks, but as I said in my previous post just above yours, my issues were entirely due to a levels mismatch issue. With P3 / gamma 2.4, I get the expected picture and there is no need to make any adjustments anywhere. No shadow details loss and no highlights clipping.

I am using the native gamut in my rs3100 (profile off / filter on) as a baseline, which is tracking very close to P3 (I calibrate with a C6 profiled to an i1pro2), and gamma is calibrated to 2.4 precisely using an internal 1D LUT, so there is no doubt that these are the correct values here and that the software is working cas intended with the correct levels and matching settings. Now that the setup is correct, I’ll try a 3D LUT.

You can only use P3 if you use the native gamut or the DCI profile. If you haven’t measured your gamma, there is no way to know which one to use, as the factory presets can be significantly off if you haven’t autocaled them recently.

Very impressed with the DTM in JRVR in MC31 (build 36), it’s a huge improvement over the previous versions.

Good to hear.  If you haven't run across these before  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1m4IBq0euAxamL9ePgfdFuf8_5nLcRwHA there is some Test footage there that probably represents the worst case clipping scenario. It's in 09. Test footage.

[Manni]

Good to hear.  If you haven't run across these before  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1m4IBq0euAxamL9ePgfdFuf8_5nLcRwHA there is some Test footage there that probably represents the worst case clipping scenario. It's in 09. Test footage.

Thanks, I haven't done any extended tests with tricky content yet, but I will now that JRVR is set up properly.

[Nicog]

Hello,

Is it possible to explain how to use the new HDR functions in JRVR ? (wiki not updated yet...). With usecases for projectors would be great 

[Wull]

Hello,

Is it possible to explain how to use the new HDR functions in JRVR ? (wiki not updated yet...). With usecases for projectors would be great 

I second that. I would like to use JRVR-tone mapping for both an oled and projector, but keep going back to madVR because I'm not sure what settings to use.

[mattkhan]

There are hardly any settings and no one knows what an individual system is doing so you probably just need to ask specific questions instead and/or just try it

[Shinji Mikami]

At least they should explain the product they are selling.

[JimH]

Please see the wiki.
Accept defaults if you need to.  It's not complicated.

[Macareno]

I second that. I would like to use JRVR-tone mapping for both an oled and projector, but keep going back to madVR because I'm not sure what settings to use.

Here in the same situation. I'm trying the trial version, but I can't find information to set up JRVR to get betters results with a JVC X7000 model. I would like to know what values to set in the tonemapping section.

[Nicog]

I'm almost newby in JRVR and MadVR, but this is my configuration for HDR :

>use the display's HDR capability -> No
>Target Peak Nits -> 70 nits (what I read with my x-rite idpro)
>Target SDR contrast -> 10000:1
>Enable HDR to HDR tone mapping -> yes
>Reduce gamut to DCI-P3 -> yes (but for what JRVR is sending REC709 to projector)
>HD to HDR Target Peak Nits -> I don't understand what it is - I left it like that
>Enable contrast recovery -> I left 0.4 (I don't really see any change... Does it change gamma for darkest areas?)

My setup is a JVC X7900, fed by a PC with RTX 4070Ti, in a dedicated room (fullblack). Screen is a white microperforated - basis 2.6m

Further comments would be really appreciated 

[DocCharky]

Quick question: wasn't there an option to limit HDR subtitles brightness at some point? I can't find it anywhere.

[mattkhan]

>Target SDR contrast -> 10000:1

it's a dark room with a capable projector so it's likely you should go higher, what's your normal gamma target for SDR?

>Enable HDR to HDR tone mapping -> yes
>HD to HDR Target Peak Nits -> I don't understand what it is - I left it like that

set to no and that 2nd option will disappear

>Reduce gamut to DCI-P3 -> yes (but for what JRVR is sending REC709 to projector)

set to whatever your pj is set to display

>Enable contrast recovery -> I left 0.4 (I don't really see any change... Does it change gamma for darkest areas?)

entirely subjective preference so up to you

idk how contrast recovery is implemented in jrvr but in other renderers it operates a bit like a sharpening filter (not implemented as such but the effect is probably most intuitively that way)

[Nicog]

Thanks Mattkhan for your answer!

remaining questions :

>About contrat : My gamma target is 2.3, but what does it change?

>If I disable HDR to HDR tone mapping do I lose the DTM ? (Or I misunderstood something...)

[Hendrik]

HDR to HDR settings only matter if you have HDR pass-through enabled, otherwise you just use HDR to SDR. In fact in the next update those settings will be hidden if pass-through is disabled to improve clarity.

[Nicog]

OK thanks Hendrik. The usecase is for people who are using HDR on their projector but want to use HDR DTM of JRVR instead of the DTM of their projector? right?

[DocCharky]

Quick question: wasn't there an option to limit HDR subtitles brightness at some point? I can't find it anywhere.

Bumping this...

[JNW]

I just wanted to point out that bjin has recently updated the RAVU shaders and added an Antiring version that you may want to add or update.
https://github.com/bjin/mpv-prescalers

Also Artoriuz recently updated this:
https://artoriuz.github.io/blog/mpv_upscaling.html

And created a couple Bilateral chroma shaders of his own that are light as a feather.
https://github.com/Artoriuz/glsl-joint-bilateral/releases

I like like using this image from madVR Doom9 forum years ago cause you can see the chroma quality when upscaling massively and how well everything is working together
https://file.io/ZNcFlMyjFbzQ

I've been jumping back and forth between JRiver and mpv for testing all the work taking place.

[mattkhan]

there's an update to the geometry correction filter which would be good to pick up -> https://www.avsforum.com/threads/free-geometry-correction-for-curved-screens.3233423/page-2#post-62775538

[Smack]

Im using the latest version with my pj in a dedicated black room.

So I should choose a very high target sdr contrast setting?

I just checked. The native contrast of the pj should be between 25000 - 33000. but if I try to change the target sdr contrast while using the user setting I could insert for example 28000 but after I save the setting and get back to the settings my values I entered are gone.

[Hendrik]

Don't put in the ":1", just the raw value, it might not parse properly otherwise

[Smack]

Thanks Hendrik. I did try putting only 28000 but it also disappeared after saving. The field is blank after I came back to the settings.

[murray]

Thanks Hendrik. I did try putting only 28000 but it also disappeared after saving. The field is blank after I came back to the settings.

Mine does exactly the same as yours so I dont bother to use the manual settings. Mine has been like that since that section was first introduced.

[Hendrik]

Fixed that issue for the next build. It still works setting a custom value right now, it just doesn't display.

[Hendrik]

I just wanted to point out that bjin has recently updated the RAVU shaders and added an Antiring version that you may want to add or update.
https://github.com/bjin/mpv-prescalers

Also Artoriuz recently updated this:
https://artoriuz.github.io/blog/mpv_upscaling.html

And created a couple Bilateral chroma shaders of his own that are light as a feather.
https://github.com/Artoriuz/glsl-joint-bilateral/releases

I like like using this image from madVR Doom9 forum years ago cause you can see the chroma quality when upscaling massively and how well everything is working together
https://file.io/ZNcFlMyjFbzQ

I've been jumping back and forth between JRiver and mpv for testing all the work taking place.

there's an update to the geometry correction filter which would be good to pick up -> https://www.avsforum.com/threads/free-geometry-correction-for-curved-screens.3233423/page-2#post-62775538

Thanks, I'll look into updating some shaders this week. And also enable the new anti-ringing in libplacebo that the RAVU AR is based on.

[mattkhan]

Thanks, I'll look into updating some shaders this week. And also enable the new anti-ringing in libplacebo that the RAVU AR is based on.

great thanks

assuming this info is readily available, would it be possible to add the small details mentioned in https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136378.msg948822.html#msg948822 ? would be useful to know which value is displayed currently too

[Hendrik]

This data is not exposed by libplacebo, unfortunately. The only place anything of that shows up is in its render feedback, eg. what the performance status lines are made from, and thats pre-formatted text.

[DocCharky]

I have a (probably) dumb question: what do advanced scalers (such as fsrcnnx) do when displaying a 4K video on a 4K screen?

You'd assume it does not kick in at all, since there's only chroma to upscale.

What am I missing?

[Hendrik]

Upscaling does not engage when there is no upscaling to do. Nothing to miss!

The settings of course don't know what kind of video you are going to play.

[DocCharky]

Seems logical 😅

I asked because I had a weird bug the day before yesterday, I'm pretty sure FSRCNNX 16 kicked in with a 4K mkv on a 4K screen (LG 65C2). I saw it on Ctrl+J timings and because the picture heavily stuttered, probably because doubling 4K was a bit tough on my system.

Can't seem to reproduce it though. So everything's fine 

[lello]

Forgive my ignorance, but I would like to understand something more about Dolby Vision.

Let me start by saying that I use a projector and, as I know, at the moment there are no projectors that support DV apart from some USTs.

As mentioned in the past, I had the opportunity to compare my BDMV, which does not support DV, of TOP GUN Maverick with the 1:1 copy in mkv format, and the difference between the two formats was very evident right away.

I therefore thought of converting the BDMV of The Lord of the Rings to mkv too, but in this case the DV in mkv format was not very evident. I also compared the individual frames, but in my opinion they were practically similar.

Obviously I checked the OSD of both mkv files, and the words Dolby Vision appeared in both, unlike the BDMVs.

Could it be due to the fact that Top Gun's DV is 8.1 while LOTR's is 7?

Or JRiver currently only supports 8.1 format?

Or did I make a mistake in making the conversion?

Thanks to those who help me understand (possibly in simple words  ).

[Hendrik]

Blu-ray DV should always be profile 7, not sure I saw any other DV on BD.  But regardless of that, the difference will of course depend on the mastering of the movie. It might have an impact, it might not. It all depends on what they put in there. Profile 7 also has an (optional) enhancement layer thats not supported yet. 8.1 is only metadata.

[lello]

Thanks Hendrik for the explanations.

In fact Top Gun, among the ones I have, is the only one with Profile 8.1

So at the moment it is not convenient for me to convert BDs to mkv, but to wait for the enhancement layer to be supported.

[DocCharky]

So, I came back to JRiver/JRVR after a few weeks playing again with MPC-BE/madvr.

I noticed that, in NVCP, the "power managment mode" MUST be set to "prefer maximum performance" when using JRiver, otherwhise I get random dropped frames that might or might have not existed a couple of month ago (maybe I just didn't notice at the time... but I doubt that  ).

I have a RTX 3090 which should be able to swallow any JRVR setting. Yet, when the NVCP "power managment mode" setting is set to "adaptive", JRVR render times are way (WAY) higher.

Take a 2160p23 DV file on a HDR 4K screen (LG C2). No luma upscaling (obviously), HDR passthrough (so no DTM), audio bitstreaming. JRVR Settings are default "quality preset" + adaptive sharpen 50.

With "adaptive" : 10ms avg / 20ms to 30ms peak (on OSD... probably a bit higher, of frames wouldn't drop, would they?...)
With "Maximum performance" : 1.4ms avg / 1.5-2.5ms peak

I don't know if it's a driver bug, a JRVR bug, or a nvidia power management "feature". In my untrained eyes, it feels that, even with "adaptive" setting, the GPU should switch to a "performance" state when JRiver is on and actually using GPU power. But it's probably way more complicated than that from a dev point of view

I still felt it was worth reporting though

EDIT : okay, so it's a super-known issue 

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136395.msg944765.html#msg944765

Oh well, now there's one more post for dummies like me to find a solution 

[Hendrik]

The next build of Media Center will include an update to libplacebo, resulting in a whole bunch of changes in JRVR.

• Improved dynamic tone mapping
  The peak detection is now much more responsive, which should result in a more even tone mapping on fast brightness changes in the scene. Additionally, the tone mapping curve has been re-tuned for overall a better behavior.
  For easier analysis, the detected peak and average brightness will now be shown on the OSD.
• New and improved scaling algorithms
  Most scaling algorithms have been tuned for improved performance. And we have two new algorithms, JincSharp, a sharpened version of Jinc, with 3 and 4 taps. And the Hermite filter for downscaling, a very low-cost filter close to the performance of bilinear, but with much higher quality.
• Completely re-designed caching
  We can now cache shaders more efficiently, as well as caching various LUTs used in rendering, eg. for gamut mapping, or the generated ICC LUT, which should result in a faster startup of the renderer.

Of course these are only the highlights, and many small tweaks and improvements went into this update.

These changes will be available in 31.0.60

[SamuriHL]

That's exciting.  I look forward to testing them out.

[Gedeon]

Thanks for the great job.

I have a question before starting to test. Is about DV metadata being used. I don't know if the DV metadata is used like LLDV processing in some devices. I mean, a DV tone mapping in a BT.2020 color space done before the frame is sent to the display.  I guess that JRVR injects the HDR format info frame so HDR10 compatible frame instead DV frame is sent. So non-DV displays can, at least, get a fully HDR10 compatible frame, but with the DV tone mapping applied.

A bit confused, to be honest, about this.

My display is a 77 inch Samsung OLED TV.

Thanks in advance.

[Hendrik]

DV metadata is used to transform the image into HDR10. The DV tone mapping data to tone map to SDR is not used at this time.

[Gedeon]

DV metadata is used to transform the image into HDR10. The DV tone mapping data to tone map to SDR is not used at this time.

Thanks. Maybe I'm wrong I just know how, by example, Nvidia shield with Kodi Nerds compilation always send DV frames (if DV layer is found in the hevc stream), no matter if display support it or not. Zidoo Z9X also admits EDID editing to use this trick.

But there are two kinds of DV frames it can send.

-) Standard DV frames, are tagged as DV frames and DV metadata is send attached to the frames so the DV display should finally apply a tone mapping/curve  before frame is shown. DV color space is used.

   A fully DV compatible display is needed for this, since a last step needs to be performed by the display

-) LLDV DV frames, are tagged as LLDV, but player applies DV metadata (tone mapping/curve) before the frame is sent and BT.2020 is used. So the frame sent is basically an HDR10 frame.

  A display able to recognize that tag, and/or a display able to interpret those frames, simply, as HDR10 is more than enough. That trick has been used by projectors and non-DV display owners to enjoy DV content without DV displays. At least an HDFury is needed for most displays (adding hdr info frame) since the LLDV frames should be tagged as HDR10. If not, the display won't enable HDR10 and the LLDV frames will be processed as SDR, so wrong image.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/dolby-vision-including-hdr10-conversion-w-dtm-on-projectors.3097934/

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/alternative-devices-for-enabling-lldv-please-read-posts-1-2.3254266/

Could it be possible to implement this process/profile in JRVR ?

JRVR would be the only product able to play DV files with correct rendering in every HDR10 compatible display without needing more elements.

[Hendrik]

It is not possible to send DV metadata from a PC at this time. You will get a HDR10/BT.2020 image from DV sources with JRVR already, and the DV metadata is being applied to the image to transform it as the DV metadata indicates. This works with any HDR10 screen (or even SDR screens), no DV support is needed.

[Gedeon]

It is not possible to send DV metadata from a PC at this time. You will get a HDR10/BT.2020 image from DV sources with JRVR already, and the DV metadata is being applied to the image to transform it as the DV metadata indicates. This works with any HDR10 screen (or even SDR screens), no DV support is needed.

Thanks a lot.

I guess It's time to test it !!