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Author Topic: JRVR Profile Selection  (Read 3875 times)

mattkhan

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JRVR Profile Selection
« on: May 31, 2023, 01:21:11 am »

A profile can be based on a custom field which you update manually to remember your preference for one or the other config.
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murray

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2023, 02:15:03 am »

A profile can be based on a custom field which you update manually to remember your preference for one or the other config.
And how would I manually activate these on the fly from my ipad say if 1 = SOFT and 2 = SHARP when we dont have key stroke numbers to operate them?
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2023, 02:23:37 am »

until such commands are implemented, you don't

however the point is to choose automatically, basically it's analogous to tags in madvr filenames. The assumption here is that your preferences are stable over time, if they're not then that's obviously that's never going to work
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2023, 03:16:26 am »

Just chatting to Murray on the phone. 

What would work well (for him) is to have say 3 JRVR profiles setup (call them 1.Soft, 2.Med, 3.Sharp... whatever).  As the movie is playing use a keyboard shortcut (say 1, 2, 3) or a remote control to go between the profiles.  When you have the one you like just press stop and have the last selection stored in "Playback Info" (or wherever) for next time.  Sort of like we can do with all the other "playback info" preferences such as subtitle selection. 

I've also discussed helping him setup a custom field and manually tagging, and it would work but the ability to quickly switch between profiles to compare what one you like is slow so it's hard to do a quick A/B/C comparison.  I don't think there is any existing meta data that could be reliably do what he wants as the "quality of the transfer" of some of these older releases various enormously regardless of the existing meta data from the pressing.
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2023, 03:25:45 am »

I would think you have to use a custom field which you update manually or you have to be able to store a user selected profile as part of playback info. The ability to do the former exists now so seems the obvious way forward to me.  This is independent of whether there is a keyboard toggle of course, it's just about remembering your preferences.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2023, 03:27:51 am »

I explained that and while it works, it would be far better (from a visual memory standpoint) to be able to dynamically switch between JRVR profiles during playback.
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2023, 03:39:37 am »

My point is these are complementary options, one is to remember your last choice, the other is to make it easier to choose.

That makes me wonder if you can change profiles on the fly now by updating the relevant tag? If it were watching the tags in current playback item then that dynamic switching could work today without a new command.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2023, 03:53:37 am »

I think the existing system works great in MC.  We already have auto selection for all settings, but can override these with a simple up arrow and the set what we need to override for: Title, Aspect Ratio, Zoom, Shift, Subtitle Timing, Subtitle Size, Lip Sync, Brightness, Contrast, Hue, Saturation, Subtitles Selection, Language Selection, Chapter Selection, Rating on a per title basis and it is done dynamically while the title is playing.  It then gets set in "Playback Info" for next time.  Just keep it consistent and add a JRVR Profile selection section to the OSD that works the same way.  Most will use the "default", some will use metadata matching rules, others can select the profile manually.  Job done.

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murray

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2023, 04:00:44 am »

To do this properly one really needs to set it up on the fly to test. If one was to have say 3 enhancement settings or whatever number one decided on........ If you have to stop the film, change the setting and go back its virtualy impossible to tell it 1 was better than 2 etc etc... Only on the fly dynamically can one really tell if one setting is better then the other.

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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2023, 04:06:13 am »

That makes me wonder if you can change profiles on the fly now by updating the relevant tag? If it were watching the tags in current playback item then that dynamic switching could work today without a new command.

That would not work unless you somehow manage to get JRVR to re-evaluate the profile rules. It does not watch for tag changes on its own.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2023, 04:07:15 am »

To do this properly one really needs to set it up on the fly to test. If one was to have say 3 enhancement settings or whatever number one decided on........ If you have to stop the film, change the setting and go back its virtualy impossible to tell it 1 was better than 2 etc etc... Only on the fly dynamically can one really tell if one setting is better then the other.

You pause the film, open the JRVR controls on a second monitor, and then change the settings. The changes will apply immediately once you click the "Apply" button.
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2023, 04:10:02 am »

Job done.
I'm just talking about things that are possible now without anyone doing any further work. If profile selection does react during playback to tag changes then this fast switching is already doable by making an appropriate MCWS call to set the (custom) field. I've no idea whether it does or not, would be quite nice if it did.
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murray

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2023, 04:12:55 am »

You pause the film, open the JRVR controls on a second monitor, and then change the settings. The changes will apply immediately once you click the "Apply" button.
Thank you Hendrik, are you able to explain my questions in the first post here please, that would help give some better understandings how things are setup?
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2023, 04:24:04 am »

I'm just talking about things that are possible now without anyone doing any further work. If profile selection does react during playback to tag changes then this fast switching is already doable by making an appropriate MCWS call to set the (custom) field. I've no idea whether it does or not, would be quite nice if it did.

Yeah I get it, I'm just arguing for the "good 'ol ways" of doing things.  Make it easy to select an override and remember it.  Works great.  Dynamic. Keeps it consistent. 

FWIW - Just tried Hendrik's suggestion.  Works fine if you change actual values, but it doesn't work if you select a profile from the drop down (and you may need to select it on multiple pages).
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2023, 04:26:34 am »

...oh and if you change a selection then it then applied to all playback of any track going forward - it's not track specific as you have just changed the profile itself.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2023, 04:46:55 am »

Lets say, I've 3 broad different types in my collection.  They are all BD's, so the meta data is the same or similar but as any example they are represented by:
- Avatar:  Modern pristine, I want to use my std settings
- Oklahoma:  Old, but an exquisite 80mm transfer.  Want to add some sharpening to it however. 
- Monty Python:  Old, poor transfer, lots of noise, looks like it was shot on my dad's Super8... don't want to add sharpening

Happy to setup 3 different JRVR Profiles, but would like to dynamically rotate through them to see which one works best as each movie plays and then pick the one I'd like to apply. 
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murray

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2023, 04:52:53 am »

Lets say, I've 3 broad different types in my collection.  They are all BD's, so the meta data is the same or similar but as any example they are represented by:
- Avatar:  Modern pristine, I want to use my std settings
- Oklahoma:  Old, but an exquisite 80mm transfer.  Want to add some sharpening to it however. 
- Monty Python:  Old, poor transfer, lots of noise, looks like it was shot on my dad's Super8... don't want to add sharpening

Happy to setup 3 different JRVR Profiles, but would like to dynamically rotate through them to see which one works best as each movie plays and then pick the one I'd like to apply.

Bingo this is exactly the way I would like to see things work! Not sure why it would be hard to implement....
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2023, 04:53:34 am »

for me, fitting that into profiles sounds painful (due to the combination of automated rules with manual overrides & the potential for needing many profiles to capture various differences) & storing that in internal format in "playback info" also sounds unpleasant (in terms of extracting that info to show what is selected).

It seems more like a tag per setting that can be used to override the active profile for that value only to me. This would be much more straightforward to interact with & understand imv (even if I think that option was already ruled out in an earlier post)
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2023, 05:01:29 am »

Note sure.  PlaybackInfo overrides.  If there is nothing explicitly set then you get the defaults during playback.  Eg, If say I select a particular SubTitle track then that is stored in PlaybackInfo and that always gets used unless it is removed or a new override is set.   Same could be done with JRVR Profiles.  I'm not suggesting that all the JRVR settings are stored, just the Profile name (or number).  So the logic would be in order of priority in selecting a JRVR Profile,
- PlaybackInfo, else
- JRVR Profile Rules, else
- Default.

So, it really is just adding an PlaybackInfo entry for what JRVR profile to use.
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2023, 05:15:58 am »

re playback info, my point is it is a basically unparseable internal format (the raw format MC uses to store settings) so, to show what is currently active on an external remote, you need a way to extract info about individual fields & there's no realistic way to manipulate this externally (i.e. you can only do this via the UI) or even easily search your library.
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JimH

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2023, 05:43:05 am »

Hendrik loves pizza.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2023, 06:01:34 am »

I've a long history of "incentives" and they don't work!  I think the last one bought me 10 answers if I remember correctly... trouble was.... I did not get to ask the question till after the answer was provided. :)
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2023, 06:07:26 am »

re playback info, my point is it is a basically unparseable internal format (the raw format MC uses to store settings) so, to show what is currently active on an external remote, you need a way to extract info about individual fields & there's no realistic way to manipulate this externally (i.e. you can only do this via the UI) or even easily search your library.

There is no need to store all the setting info of a JRVR profile in PlaybackInfo, just which Profile (all the JRVR Profile info is stored in the registry).  If a meta data matching rule can pull up the JRVR profile so could PlaybackInfo.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2023, 06:12:58 am »

...and the profiles in the registry are
<Items>
<Item>
<Item Name="Name">Interlaced</Item>
<Item Name="ID">1</Item>
</Item>
</Items>

So they could be called by Name or ID
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2023, 06:20:03 am »

profile only is how you can end up with a combinatorial explosion in the no of profiles you have to manage

I'd say that people who pixel peep (which is IMV what is being discussed here, i.e. if you can't even tell the difference without a fast A/B) are those who are prone to want to tweak all the things & hence the potential for profile count explosion.

it's possible the fact there are relatively few settings in JRVR will mean it's manageable but it still looks like either/or (manual or automated choice) to me whereas a tag based override can coexist with automated profile selection.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2023, 06:21:33 am »

Do note that JRVR does not load only one profile, its one per category of settings, so its not quite as simple.
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JimH

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2023, 06:33:46 am »

I've a long history of "incentives" and they don't work!  I think the last one bought me 10 answers if I remember correctly... trouble was.... I did not get to ask the question till after the answer was provided. :)

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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2023, 07:52:12 am »

[rattle out of cot] Yeah... Nahhh.  Murray is after a total of 3 JRVR profiles to apply as he wants to his videos and the ability to switch between them during live playback to see which one suits.  Who cares if he wants 100 profiles?  Thats his problem to manage. It might be pixel peeping, but that is the point.  Otherwise remove all options and be done with it. 

Some users will want full automation, some will want meta data driven control, other will want file level control. 

JRVR is not separate to MC.  It is a part of MC.  It should be controllable through MCC.  It should be controllable through OSD.  Playback info should be recorded like all other playback aspects.  It should be the same as all other aspects of MC playback. [/rattle out of cot]

FWIW, just watched State of Origin and we lost.  Grumpy and going to bed!
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2023, 07:57:58 am »

JRVR is not separate to MC.  It is a part of MC.  It should be controllable through MCC.  It should be controllable through OSD.  Playback info should be recorded like all other playback aspects.  It should be the same as all other aspects of MC playback.
nothing I wrote says anything otherwise, I'm simply saying that packing all of content into a single field that cannot be controlled by anything other than a user using the UI and can't be parsed (except with great difficultly) by anything other than the UI is unfriendly. It's not hard to imagine mapping different playback fields to separate tags internally after all.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2023, 04:07:45 pm »

Do note that JRVR does not load only one profile, its one per category of settings, so its not quite as simple.

Something overall like DSP Presets?

Code: [Select]
      LoadDSPPreset
         Loads a DSP preset.
         Parameters:
            Name: The name of the preset to load (or a saved preset file). (default: )
            Zone: The zone the command is targetted for. (default: -1)
            ZoneType: The type of value provided in 'Zone' (ID: zone id; Index: zone index; Name: zone name). (default: ID)
         Response:
         Examples:
            Click here

      SaveDSPPreset
         Save the DSP preset.
         Parameters:
            Zone: The zone the command is targetted for. (default: -1)
            ZoneType: The type of value provided in 'Zone' (ID: zone id; Index: zone index; Name: zone name). (default: ID)
         Response:
         Examples:
            Click here
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2023, 04:28:04 am »

I've been planning on how to do specific profile selection, and I was wondering about one thing - how, if at all, should the override be saved?

There are basically three options:
- Per Zone
- Per File
- No saving

I figure per file is what makes the most sense, you would most often use this to select an appropriate mode for this particular file that could not easily be auto-selected.

Thoughts?
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2023, 05:28:23 am »

Agree, per file
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2023, 06:44:04 am »

I actually like the current profile settings in JRVR, in that you can have them per Section and the rules that can then activate them from the meta data.  This should work for most (but not all).

Building on the above, it would be good to have
- for individual files the ability to select and store (in Playback Info??) the preferred JRVR Profiles on a per file basis, and
- in addition to the OSD ability to select the various profiles, shortcut keys / MCWS / MCC calls to select these profiles

The way I would see it, is if you are playing a title and it's not "right", you could select and apply from your list of existing JRVR profiles (for each JRVR sub section) from either the OSD, or a shortcut key / MCWS / MCC etc and that is then recorded for subsequent playback (like other playback overrides).

Eg, In addition to the "Default", I may have created profiles for:
- General --> "Anamorphic Mode"
- Scaling --> "No SuperRes"
- Processing --> "Sharpening Strength 50"
- etc

The ideal would be to be able to select any combination such as "No SuperRes", or "Anamorphic Mode" & "Sharpening Strength 50"
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2023, 06:53:25 am »

That is roughly how it should work once its done. But mostly just gathering all my thoughts so far, will likely work on this next week.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2023, 03:42:35 pm »

Sounds good for me. 

PS - Forgot to add we also need the ability to select the "Default" profiles!
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murray

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2023, 07:12:26 pm »

What I would really like to see is a system similar to what Ive been using in madvr Profiles for years...
Since I moved away from madvr to JRVR I no longer have the luxury of changing any settings on the fly.

madvr Profiles allows the user full manual control through profiles if they choose to do so. Ive been using three sharpness settings for many many years and it works perfectly and I can set it to whatever keyboard stroke I want. Its such a simple, uncomplicated and sophisticated setup.

I have three sharpness settings under profile name “I” = image
Three settings named 1, 2 and 3 where I set the amount of sharpening
And the most important one = “keyboard shortcut to activate this profile”
I use 1= keyboard 3, 2= keyboard 4, 3 = keyboard 5.

This method would also be good for a simple on/off


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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2023, 03:21:33 pm »

That is roughly how it should work once its done. But mostly just gathering all my thoughts so far, will likely work on this next week.

I've been away (so may have missed it sorry), but any more on being able to manually select a profiles over MCC / MCWS? 
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2023, 11:06:55 am »

You can manually override profiles on a per-file basis using MCC.
The MCC Commands are 10074 for Output profiles, 10075 for Scaling profiles, 10076 for Filtering profiles, and 10077 for Advanced profiles. The parameter is the profile ID to load, with -2 being "Auto select", and -1 being the default profile.

Of course you can trigger MCC commands through MCWS as well.

So you can have shortcuts for quick switches on a keyboard/remote as described above.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2023, 01:03:52 pm »

Thanks.  That part I do remember :), but it's about switching between profiles on a global basis (not per file or meta data driven) - eg switch to a profile and leave it on that one till you manually switch to another (unless it is overridden by the other selection rules like we have now).
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2023, 01:39:23 pm »

The post above of yours which my quoted answer was referring to should be entirely possible with the overrides:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136159.msg944131.html#msg944131

I skimmed this thread again and it seems like all requests should be easily handled with that functionality.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2023, 04:51:25 pm »

Sorry It's my poor explanation (or I'm missing something which could be the case).  Just retested and it works fine swapping a profile for a particular file and while it is playing :) but the next one in a playlist reverts back to the "Default"

What we are after is a persistent, non file based, global swapping of profile, eg:

- Set up 2 Profiles, say "Default" (or "16:9 Lens") and "Anamorphic Lens"
- I now want to select say the "Anamorphic Lens" profile and have that used for all playback till I manual select "Default" (or "16:9 Lens") profile

The issue at present is that you can play the same file with 2 different lens engaged on a projector (there is no way for MC to know) but you need to swap to the other profile and keep it there till the lens is changed again.  This swap could happen during a playlist.

It may be easier to think of it as loading the "Anamorphic Lens" or "16:9 Lens" settings into "Default" via MCWS.
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eve

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2023, 04:58:37 pm »

Sorry It's my poor explanation (or I'm missing something which could be the case).  Just retested and it works fine swapping a profile for a particular file and while it is playing :) but the next one in a playlist reverts back to the "Default"

What we are after is a persistent, non file based, global swapping of profile, eg:

- Set up 2 Profiles, say "Default" (or "16:9 Lens") and "Anamorphic Lens"
- I now want to select say the "Anamorphic Lens" profile and have that used for all playback till I manual select "Default" (or "16:9 Lens") profile

The issue at present is that you can play the same file with 2 different lens engaged on a projector (there is no way for MC to know) but you need to swap to the other profile and keep it there till the lens is changed again.  This swap could happen during a playlist.

It may be easier to think of it as loading the "Anamorphic Lens" or "16:9 Lens" settings into "Default" via MCWS.

I'd prefer this too! I use scaling profiles, my default is essentially the 'highest' profile, but I have a few more pedestrian ones. These lesser profiles tend to get used when I'm doing something exceedingly taxing on the system doing playback. If I populate the queue with some items and in and tell JRiver to switch to one of these other profiles (`http://${activeEndpointInfo.ip}:${activeEndpointInfo.mcwsPort}/MCWS/v1/Control/MCC?Command=10075&Parameter=${profileIndex}`), the choice isn't respected for the entire queue.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2023, 06:53:16 pm »

It may be easier to think of it as loading the "Anamorphic Lens" or "16:9 Lens" settings into "Default" via MCWS.

The other option would be to have JRVR settings being different using "Zones" ?  More cumbersome to maintain keeping all other MC settings in sync between the two zones, but it would work. 
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2023, 02:26:00 pm »

The Zone idea is bad as playback would not continue when you swapped zones in the middle of a playlist

So, I'm browsing the available System/Global based fields (eg not file metadata) that I can both set (using MCWS) and then check in the JRVR Profile Selection rules that will not interfere with playback. 

Even adding a single System/Global field like "Note" should work.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2023, 02:27:51 pm »

Just try to test out the idea setting a Global Var then using JRVR Profile Rules to match it, but I'm not sure on the syntax for this 2nd part,

No probs using "http://localhost:52199/MCWS/v1/Playback/Repeat" to set to Off, Playlist etc (and to check it's selection)

...but what's the required syntax in the JRVR Profile matching dialoge to test for this condition (I've tried guessing a few but none seemed to be valid):

[Playback Repeat Mode]=[Playlist]
[Playback Mode]=[Playlist]
[Mode]=[Playlist]
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2023, 02:14:03 pm »

Welcome back Hendrik!  Any hints on the Syntax question above?  I'd love to test.

Thanks
Nathan
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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2023, 02:00:49 pm »

Bump...
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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2023, 03:23:06 am »

I'm just simply asking for what the syntax would be in the JRVR Profile Rules....  No change, just info.
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mattkhan

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2023, 03:49:47 am »

I might be missing something but if profile rules match library fields and that state is not stored in a library field then how can that possibly work?
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Profile Selection
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2023, 03:53:21 am »

You can't match settings, only fields. It also wouldn't change on the fly because its not re-evaluating the profiles constantly, unless its told it needs to.
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