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Author Topic: Beta process feedback  (Read 8680 times)

LonWar

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Beta process feedback
« on: August 08, 2006, 10:28:02 am »

Why not keep all of MC12 stuff in this board?

I think combining them will confuse new users.

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GHammer

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2006, 11:44:53 am »

I'd rather see the whole of 12 stay here too. I suspect it would also be beneficial to the new users to have it separated.

11, 11.1, 12 may get a tad cluttered.

I think you'll get quite a good uptake on this version because of the substantial difference from the 11 series. People are gonna want to meet Otto if nothing else!

Me? I'd be kinda grouchy if I paid more on early testing than a later/stable price.
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KingSparta

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 11:55:05 am »

I guess the advantage is to get more reports for bugs.

even if a non bata tester tries it, it does not look like much is broken

I still don't think you should keep the files locked when paused however, it creates problems and does not look like it will be fixed.
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bennyd

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 11:57:11 am »

go ahead
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 12:06:30 pm »

I think it's wwway to good to give out to just anyone  ;)

datdude

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2006, 02:44:53 pm »

I lke the idea, if someone is really getting into the beta (making lots of posts), then maybe you would allow them to have access to this board.
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Alex B

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 04:49:29 pm »

Hmm... Let's try to imagine what the new beta testers would see.

New things:

Otto, Noire skin (Mega & Theater), Skinned mini view, Tiny icons*, Small display in Action Window, DirectShow playback adjustments  (Did I forget something?)

Changed things:

Tree, Tag Panel, Main Display
- these are mostly just changed (to better or worse), nothing actually new has been invented.

Internal changes that can make perceivable difference:

Supposedly faster, Several other small funtionality changes that are not instantly obvious (image file tag handling, search etc.)

What remains unchanged (- just for example, the wish list is in the main forum as we know):
File & tagging formats, servers, handhelds, audio playback, video playback (besides the DS filter changes), CD burning & labeler, image and media editors, internet radio & podcasts, file and tagging tools, TV & recording, ...

I would say that If the function palette is not going to change anymore then go on and release the beta to wider public. If any major changes are going to happen the changes should be tried out here first.

I like the idea, if someone is really getting into the beta (making lots of posts), then maybe you would allow them to have access to this board.

A good idea. However, that should be done discreetly (privately?) without making a lot of noise about the invitations.

This beta forum should be kept closed also because JRiver cannot allow everything to be discussed freely in the main forum. Here it's possible to make direct comparisons with other similar programs without harming MC's public image.


* Would it be possible to add the option for switching these tiny icons off? I really would like to instantly see if the audio files are imported and have a visual symbol for audio, video and image files in list views.
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JimH

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2006, 04:54:15 pm »

Other new items:
Quicktime Video thumbnails
Video options  (pause video and right click)
Animated buttons
Transparent menus

There is a list of features here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=34365.0

We're trying to decide whether it's complete.
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jgreen

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2006, 05:38:24 pm »

I think that the tiny icons for each displayed track need a name, in the way that Auto-Import has become "Otto".  Therefore I propose that we call them "Alexicons" after Alex B's unstinting (thank you, Marko) support of the concept.
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KingSparta

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2006, 05:52:49 pm »

Quote
I think that the tiny icons for each displayed track need a name

you can call it "Mini-Image", Your Authorized
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JimH

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2006, 06:18:09 pm »

I think that the tiny icons for each displayed track need a name, in the way that Auto-Import has become "Otto". 
Blotto
Dotto  (dotti for plural)
MediaSpots
PixieDust
Cheetos
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LonWar

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2006, 07:29:47 pm »



We're trying to decide whether it's complete.

As I said in another post:

Well I was really hoping that this :        http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=31662.0
Could make it into this version... Hopefully this isn't it for new features.


I'm not trying to complain, but I really thought this would see the lite of day for 12
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Deivit

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2006, 07:45:46 pm »

Blotto
Dotto  (dotti for plural)
MediaSpots
PixieDust
Cheetos
Thumbies
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rpalmer68

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2006, 08:16:35 pm »

I'd like to see some improvements to theater view in MC12 as this is the main environment the family uses MC in.

I made some suggestions in here http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=30660.0 a while back.

Any chance of some of these being looked at?

Cheers
Richard
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JimH

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2006, 08:19:09 pm »

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jgreen

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2006, 08:55:27 pm »

"Thumbies" and "Pinkies" are aptly descriptive names, but they fail to convey how very much Alex B seems to admire this feature, based on his comments.
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JimH

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2006, 09:28:01 pm »

Let's call them Alex.  No, wait.  Let's call them John.
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hit_ny

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2006, 03:55:50 am »

I would say that If the function palette is not going to change anymore then go on and release the beta to wider public. If any major changes are going to happen the changes should be tried out here first.
I certainly hope this is not it for new features.

Apart from Otto, what else is significantly new ?
Speedups and cosmetic changes...there has to be more surely.

if MC12 vs.11.1 were put to a poll *today*, would enough ppl see the benefits of going to 12 ?

Going from previous builds, the new version usually made an appearance around September and was well received. So maybe hold off for a month before going public, little more time to get more (*of our...ahem*) features requests put in.

..or go public now if enough ppl think so and then triage the deluge of new requests for maximum product perception.


* Would it be possible to add the option for switching these tiny icons off? I really would like to instantly see if the audio files are imported and have a visual symbol for audio, video and image files in list views.
I defnitely would want this too. Those tiny icons are way too distracting and don't really add much, its surprisng no one else (cept Alex) also feels this.
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KingSparta

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2006, 04:45:07 am »

Let's call them Alex.  No, wait.  Let's call them John.

John would fit well yesterday I got the first year of "the Adventures of robin Hood" TV show 1955 Vintage staring Richard Greene. I remember watching it when i was a kid.

so the image is little, so you could call it "little john"
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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2006, 08:02:34 am »

John would fit well yesterday I got the first year of "the Adventures of robin Hood" TV show 1955 Vintage staring Richard Greene. I remember watching it when i was a kid.

so the image is little, so you could call it "little john"
Jennifer Marlowe wouldn't like a 'little' anything. Ask Herb.
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Doof

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2006, 10:08:41 am »

I kind of have to agree. Every major version of MC has had its own big new feature(s).

12 so far has really only added Otto. Display View is cool, but it's not really what I would consider a big new feature.

I guess in a way, if I was faced with the choice of upgrading from 11.1 to 12 (and had to pay for it), as it stands right now, I don't think I could justify it. It just doesn't have that "must have" feature that previous versions have had.

Don't get me wrong... I think 12 rocks. And if I hadn't previously purchased 11, I'd gladly fork over money for 12. But as an upgrade from 11.1 to 12? I doubt I would.
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Alex B

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2006, 11:17:35 am »

It looks like this time JRiver is trying to make MC more appealing to new users that have previously acustomed to MC's rivals instead of really trying to further develop the old MC functions. Nothing bad with that, but some new "must-have" functions or enhancements for the old MC users would be welcomed.
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JimH

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2006, 11:31:48 am »

It looks like this time JRiver is trying to make MC more appealing to new users that have previously acustomed to MC's rivals instead of really trying to further develop the old MC functions. Nothing bad with that, but some new "must-have" functions for the old MC users would be welcomed.
Alex,
Forgive me, but there are several "must-have" features in MC12:

Auto import
DVD filter selection
Video filter selection
More video options
EXIF and IPTC tag support in photos

And a few you may not appreciate unless you subscribe to a service:
Enhanced Service SDK
Better Audible support
Trans-CD burning
Better PlaysforSure support
Support for Televisa and an un-named Japanese music service

I can understand that if your "must-have" feature list hasn't been addressed, that MC12 may lack value for you.
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LonWar

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2006, 11:44:37 am »

As I said in another post:

Well I was really hoping that this :        http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=31662.0
Could make it into this version... Hopefully this isn't it for new features.


I'm not trying to complain, but I really thought this would see the lite of day for 12

So if the features are done, does this have to wait till v13?     :'(
Personally I see this as a Fix, not a new feature.
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jgreen

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2006, 11:49:30 am »

JimH, I believe 12.x is the sharpest version of MC yet, and upgrading to 12.x is a "must-have" decision.  When I read Alex B talking about "must-have" features, I think he's talking more about marquee-value "draws", new features that have "wow" value for users unfamiliar with Mc.  I think Otto is at the top of that list, without doubt.  And the hooks to popular services are also there, certainly.  I also liked the new video options, until my OS stopped reading DVDs (please help).

I also like to recall that at this point in development (rev .50), 11.1x was still just getting its sea legs, and really hadn't acquired much yet in the way of "must-haves".  And then you guys really went to work, and by the time you reached rev .100 the program was bursting with new stuff.

So with that in mind, I'm going to go OT and present a off-the-top-of-my-head wishlist that mostly has to do with Otto, our new best friend:

--Otto file backup with full paths and former path embedded into comment field, for:

--Otto restore:  right-click on a track that's showing not connected, and select "restore".  It will go look in the place that you Otto backed it up to.

--Otto analyze

--Otto convert

--Otto chainable events (import+analyze+convert, etc)

--AW Playing Now given the GUI prominence it deserves.

Bottom line, I think this is an exciting new release, especially considering the new Alexicons feature.
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Alex B

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2006, 12:11:09 pm »

Jim,

Actually, I am trying to not think about my personal wish list. It consists mostly of small enhancements to the already available MC functions (like the one imjustagamer mentioned.)

Personally, I have been satisfied with the functionality of MC11.1 (including my workarounds, which are possibly not for everyone). Besides the lack of visual indicator of imported files and file types in multi-format list views I could live with MC12 fine.

The features you mentioned may well be "must-have" to some others as you said.

I don't see a big difference with manually pressing "start" for import or with running Otto. Personally, I have not used even the old import menu since the initial import years ago. The new video functions and image tag support are great news, but not quite "must-have" for me. Also, I am not currently interested in services.

However, as far as I can see, the most requested features have been related to server/client/portable functions in a multi-user home environment. I don't think this area has been addressed at all. I believe that many potentional MC users are seeking for LAN functions that are beyond what e.g. iTunes or WMP can do.
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Alex B

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2006, 12:19:41 pm »

I also like to recall that at this point in development (rev .50), 11.1x was still just getting its sea legs, and really hadn't acquired much yet in the way of "must-haves".  And then you guys really went to work, and by the time you reached rev .100 the program was bursting with new stuff.

I recall that I was very critical of MC11.1 at first. However, it ended up fine, the best MC so far.

Quote
Bottom line, I think this is an exciting new release, especially considering the new Alexicons feature.

:P
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Alex B

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2006, 12:27:15 pm »

--Otto file backup with full paths and former path embedded into comment field, for:

--Otto restore:  right-click on a track that's showing not connected, and select "restore".  It will go look in the place that you Otto backed it up to.

--Otto analyze

--Otto convert

--Otto chainable events (import+analyze+convert, etc)

In addition, I am surprised that Otto cannot move files to a predefined folder structure on import. iTunes has this function.
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Marty3d

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2006, 01:19:03 pm »

I, as many others, want certain new features and am somewhat disappointed that those features didn't make it. I also think, personally,  that JRiver might have taken a wrong turn or at least a detour with the decisions about the new feature set. Like automatic import, it has been around for a couple of years in other programs and I think Sparta even did a plugin to do this (or was it someone else?). So for me, MC 12 doesn't revolutionize anything. And for the rest of the features, I haven't found anyone to useful enough to make the switch from 11 to 12. But honestly, that's just me! Perhaps I use MC in a very special and narrow way. There are probably thousands of users that's gonna jump out of their shorts about MC12.

But we've all seen this discussion before. It always pop up when we (the "power" users) get a bit too excited about MC's development. Perhaps that's why I haven't said much about it. So please (if not for your own sake), lower your expectations. We are merely a beta band, and personally I'm happy to be chosen for this.

And for a wider release, shoot! I think it's stable enough for the mass to try it out. The pricing thingy could be biting back. If one rise the price that much for the beta, isn't the risk that users believe that's the standard price or something?

Thank you!
/Martin
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Deivit

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2006, 03:03:31 pm »

I'm currently on vacation in New York City, far away from my main home computer. I had installed MC 11.1 in this laptop and therefore I haven't tried the latest builds of MC.12 yet.

I haven't read anything in the new builds about it, so... is the "rip refresh bug" already solved? Has anybody tried? May I suggest that you don't release MC.12 to a wider audience without fixing that bug... it'll give an undeserved poor image. You cannot rip a second CD without rebooting your computer to get rid of the information of the previous one... and ripping CD's is a basic non-advanced feature.

Apart from that, I agree with much of what's been said in this thread. Currently,  this is more 11.2 than 12.0 to me... but I'm sure there's more coming up  ;)
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KingSparta

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Re: Wider Beta
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2006, 03:55:47 pm »

Quote
In addition, I am surprised that Otto cannot move files to a predefined folder structure on import.

or convert formats from a range kbps to a targeted kbps
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marko

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Re: Beta process feedback
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2006, 09:40:14 am »

It would be nice to keep v12 chatter here on its own. It's been quite handy for me, and probably the whole team. I'm not sure how well that would work if the beta program were to be opened up though. I think it would only continue to work well if it's opened up further by way of invitation, otherwise, we'll end up with 11.1 questions in here, and 12 questions over there. It's not rocket science, but still, you just know it will happen, so, with that in mind, perhaps moving out into the main MC forum might be a better idea? Perhaps just open this forum up first and see how well the early adopters manage to organise their postings. If it worked, and the model was perpetuated, it could turn out really useful for keeping help related to specific releases better organised within interact as a whole.

what would the early adopters find then?

the new tag window is getting there, slowly.
the new image related abilities are extremely welcome.

Otto does well, but I wouldn't say he was a major shouting point. He's a catch-up feature that other apps have had for years, so the reaction is more likely to be along the lines of "finally!"

Talking of Otto, how is he configured by default?
I was thinking about this earlier, because to begin with, he was way ahead of most us, removing this and updating that, you know?

are the task settings independant of the watch folder list?
If they are, I think they should all be turned off by default. When my network machine went down, all my video files were considered broken links and were removed from my library. I've changed the instructions to leave network files, but still, It's a mapped network drive, and I've not got around to testing if MC recognises that as 'network'.

There could be a fair few unhappy campers around if you just go "here try this, see what you think" and Otto kicks in and removes half the database because he thinks the files have gone missing.

There's the IPTC import thing to consider too...
it appears to rely on the prescence of an MJMD tag in the file. if none exists, it goes ahead and imports any IPTC data it finds. If there are things like keywords in the IPTC header that do not match existing keywords in the MC database, the database keywords will be replaced by the incoming data. It's fine once you realise what's going on, and so know what to do to get things sync'd the way you want, but until then, the potential for disaster is ever present.

should be interesting, if nothing else :)

Just for the record, I'm 100% with Alex regarding the little 'Alexicons'. I agreed the last time, and I still do. I was surprised at the number of people who missed them when they got pulled before, and had this gut feeling they would be back sooner rather than later. I'm not too fussed about the forced thumbnailing they cause, despite the problems that caused me with some video files, but for me, the ability to quickly tell a files 'import status' from the colour of its media icon far outweighs the eyecandy value that is 'Alexicons'. I don't know, Perhaps a halfway house could be attained by not using alexicons for non-imported files?

-marko.

marko

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Re: Beta process feedback
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2006, 09:44:49 am »

And a few you may not appreciate unless you subscribe to a service:
Enhanced Service SDK
Better Audible support
Trans-CD burning
Better PlaysforSure support
Support for Televisa and an un-named Japanese music service
out of curiosity, which, if any, of the available services are accessible for customers in the EU/UK?
and if the answer is 'none' are there any plans to address the situation?

JimH

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Re: Beta process feedback
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2006, 09:50:30 am »

It's pretty much out of our control.  It's chiefly related to licensing.  Licenses for most content are done on a per country basis, so it makes it hard for anyone to put together Europe, for example.

Audible may be available.  I'm not sure.

MusicNet has significant European operations so it may also work.

The web sites for the services would be the place to check.
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marko

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Re: Beta process feedback
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2006, 05:22:06 pm »

My brother helped set this up...

http://virgindigital.co.uk/download.php

would that be hard to integrate?
does the fact that they already have a player mean it's a non-starter?


(YUK!)

KingSparta

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Re: Beta process feedback
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2006, 05:38:05 pm »

it does look ugly.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Beta process feedback
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2006, 05:40:57 pm »

Does look good value tho

datdude

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Re: Beta process feedback
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2006, 08:17:55 pm »

I particularly like that full screen play queue and display on the right!!!
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Beta process feedback
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2006, 03:46:17 am »

Just 12 hours till I get on my plane now.
I just wanna say a big thanks to the JRiver Team for involving
me in the Beta process.  Hopefully by the time I  get back
MC 12 will be moving towards Release!

Good luck with it in the weeks to come.

Here's what I'm gonna be doing for the next 6 weeks
http://www.dragoman.com/destinations/tripdetails.php?cat=NVC

 :)

Deivit

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Re: Beta process feedback
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2006, 09:18:58 am »

Hey Mr. Chriz, that sounds awesome! Have a great trip and take care.
Se you again in 6 weeks... and don't forget to bring your photos with you  ;)
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