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[MusicHawk]

Using 11.1.201, is this a bug, or normal?

1. Create a new library by cloning my default library file, which has many thousands of files. Open the new library.

2. In the Import Media dialog, specify a precise path to a folder containing songs I want in the new library, a few hundred files. First, I deleted the existing path, probably a carryover from the clone source, then I added a new path.

3. But instead of using the specified path, MC starts importing every file I have, thousands. They are NOT in the specified path, and it's the only path displayed in Import Media.

I repeated this several times, creating new libraries as clones, then specifying a small folder, only to have MC start importing a huge number of files. Apparently it was either looking elsewhere, maybe using the old path I deleted, or somehow remembered the contents of the library used to create the clone and was trying to load all those files.

I eventually discovered that I first must CLEAR the new library, even though it is already empty of music files. Only then does it import what I specify in Import Media. Is clearing a cloned library a normal first step requirement? If not, there's a bug.

However, if clearing a new clone before importing IS a requirement, it doesn't seem user-friendly. The library was visibily empty before and after clearing so who would know to do this step?

It definitely seems wrong that the path I specify in Import Media is ignored until I clear the new library. Even if the clone has some phantom invisible knowledge of all the files its original source, or maybe remembers the original import path, updating the path in Import Media should stick, shouldn't it? How can it show me one path, but import using another that is not shown in Import Media?

[krupted]

i have found the 'import media' tool to be a pain as well.

the best workaround i found is to open an explorer window where your music is.  highligh everything you want to add to media center.  then, drag it into the 'playing now' list in media center.   once it adds everything to the playlist, then right click on all of it (highlighted again)  and select  'import all'  into the library. 

[MusicHawk]

Thanks for the suggestion; I hadn't thought of that method.

However, I sometimes import thousands of files when splitting collections into multiple libraries.  I wonder how many can be dragged at one time, or temporarily listed in Playing Now?

What I really want is the ability to select some files in Library A and directly move them to Library B, rather than have to manipulate at the file/folder level.

In any case, I hope the apparent bug in MC can be fixed ASAP.

[Alex B]

Using 11.1.201, is this a bug, or normal?

Did the behavior change when you installed the build 201? If not then it is not a bug.

I guess you are misunderstanding the import options. What you were seeing was not an attempt to check all media folders for new files. It was an attempt to run one or more of the advanced import options that you probably had selected. Untick the advanced import options below the file extensions box and MC should check only the defined folders for new files.

[Alex B]

the best workaround i found is to open an explorer window where your music is.  highligh everything you want to add to media center.  then, drag it into the 'playing now' list in media center.   once it adds everything to the playlist, then right click on all of it (highlighted again)  and select  'import all'  into the library.

Yet another import option is to right-click a folder in Windows Explorer and select "Media Center > Import". The folder can be a single folder or a base folder that has subfolders. (Shell integration must be enabled in MC's general options.)

However, I sometimes import thousands of files when splitting collections into multiple libraries.  I wonder how many can be dragged at one time, or temporarily listed in Playing Now?

I have found that Playing Now can easily handle thousands of files.

Also, playlist export/import in MPL format can be used for transferring library data between two separate libraries. An MPL playlist contains all library field info including statistics.

[MusicHawk]

>> I guess you are misunderstanding the import options. What you were seeing was not an attempt to check all media folders for new files. It was an attempt to run one or more of the advanced import options that you probably had selected. Untick the advanced import options below the file extensions box and MC should check only the defined folders for new files.

This IS a BUG, unless unpredictable behavior is an intentional feature. I add some paths, and MC ignores them and instead uses paths that are not displayed to me. If I CLEAR the library, MC starts using the paths I specify. How can this NOT be a BUG?

Many of the Advanced settings would be a huge pain to disable, since they define which file types to get. Beyond those, I don't see how the Advanced settings, which don't specify any locations, should override the folders I define. If that's "by design" it is not a productive UI.

I've confirmed that one solution is to CLEAR a cloned library before trying to import anything into it. Clearing seems to eliminate MC's behavior of ignoring the specified folders. Since Clearing does NOT change the Import Advanced settings, I don't think they are a cause or solution to the problem. It appears that a cloned library remembers the former import paths, and only discards them when Cleared.

If someone explains that it is normal for a newly-cloned library to retain the former Import paths, I'd say, seems wrong but maybe OK. But it is OK ONLY if it SHOWS this in the Import dialog. In fact, anything/everything that is passed to a clone MUST be displayed to the user, otherwise the user loses control. Any UI dialog or setting that shows one thing but does something else is NOT OK.

[JimH]

This IS a BUG, unless unpredictable behavior is an intentional feature.

Please define upredictable behavior.

[Alex B]

>> I guess you are misunderstanding the import options. What you were seeing was not an attempt to check all media folders for new files. It was an attempt to run one or more of the advanced import options that you probably had selected. Untick the advanced import options below the file extensions box and MC should check only the defined folders for new files.

This IS a BUG, unless unpredictable behavior is an intentional feature. I add some paths, and MC ignores them and instead uses paths that are not displayed to me. If I CLEAR the library, MC starts using the paths I specify. How can this NOT be a BUG?

Many of the Advanced settings would be a huge pain to disable, since they define which file types to get. Beyond those, I don't see how the Advanced settings, which don't specify any locations, should override the folders I define. If that's "by design" it is not a productive UI.

I wrote: Untick the advanced import options below the file extensions box ...

I've confirmed that one solution is to CLEAR a cloned library before trying to import anything into it. Clearing seems to eliminate MC's behavior of ignoring the specified folders. Since Clearing does NOT change the Import Advanced settings, I don't think they are a cause or solution to the problem. It appears that a cloned library remembers the former import paths, and only discards them when Cleared.

If someone explains that it is normal for a newly-cloned library to retain the former Import paths, I'd say, seems wrong but maybe OK. But it is OK ONLY if it SHOWS this in the Import dialog. In fact, anything/everything that is passed to a clone MUST be displayed to the user, otherwise the user loses control. Any UI dialog or setting that shows one thing but does something else is NOT OK.

MC11.1.201 does not import new files from the current media library folders if these folders are not included in the selection. The end result is "zero imported files" even when these folders contain new unimported files. I just tested this.

The advanced import options "Fix or remove broken links" and "Update library for external file changes" make MC check your entire library for these things each time you start import. This behavior is intended and the system works as designed.

Personally I would like to be able to select which locations are checked. Especially with MC12 I would like to use its Auto-import feature for fully maintaining only a selected location and keep the rest of my library as it is.

BTW, you made me to download and install the build 201 for testing this. I had only MC11.1.200 on our PCs. I already knew that the builds up to 200 work as I described. That's why I asked the question you didn't answer.


Edit: I didn't try this, but possibly also the "Build missing thumbnails" advanced import option makes MC go through the current library.

Edit 2:

I eventually discovered that I first must CLEAR the new library, even though it is already empty of music files. Only then does it import what I specify in Import Media.

This is probably caused because you had the "Exclude files previously removed from library" advanced option selected. MC keeps the deleted files in its internal "deleted files" database. Without such a database this option could not work. When the option is enabled MC compares the deleted files database against the disk files.

This thread has some info about the deleted files database and further links: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=30238.0

[MusicHawk]

No, I didn't select Exclude files previously removed from library. I never use this mode.

However, there are other settings that I suppose would trigger searching the entire music path I had formerly specified.

But I think this is "unpredictable behavior" or "bad UI". Unless a user opens "Advanced" and contemplates what the various options MIGHT do, the behavior is unexpected.

I realize it's difficult to recreate problems, but I can experience the unpredictable behavior over and over. All I do is open my main library, which has thousands of files, create a clone, then in the clone library try to search a specified path.

To repeat what keeps happening in my tests:
1. Clone a library that had lots of stuff in it.
2. Open the new libary; it appears to be empty.
3. Select Import Media.
4. Do not click Advanced, so it is what it is/was. In my case. settings include Fix or remove broken links, and Update library for external file changes. (But never Exclude files previously removed from library.)
5. Specify a search path that does not include the entire file tree, and click Search. For instance, My Music\Christmas.

Every time I do this, it starts searching my total My Music path, even though the search dialog shows only My Music\Christmas. The difference, with my music collection, is 30 seconds of searching vs. several hours!

This is unpredictable behavior because it is not searching the path specified in the search dialog. The fact that it might be doing something IMPLIED by Advanced settings is an explanation of the behavior, but is it a reasonable thing to do? Is it clear to the user how the basic and Advanced settings interact? If you use search in Windows, for instance, and specify a path, do you expect Windows to ignore it if some other non-displayed box is checked?

For those who are reflexively defensive, I LOVE MC; I've used MC and MJ for many years. I'm trying to idenfity either a functional problem (bug) or a UI weakness. Maybe the Advanced settings shouldn't require another click to see settings that override the Search path. Maybe the file-type settings should be in a separate dialog, assuming they apply to the overall search and don't affect the specified path. But I think ANYTHING that causes the actual search to not EXACTLY follow the specified Search list should be obvious in the basic dialog, AND if a setting overrides the search path, that should be stated.

But, I don't think Advanced settings explain what I'm experiencing!

After I CLEAR a new library clone, it immediately works as expected. It uses ONLY the specified path and doesn't search anywhere else. BUT (my reason for calling it a bug), the clone still has the Advanced settings of its parent, including Fix or remove broken links, and Update library for external file changes. If those settings were the cause of the behavior, why does the behavior change when the settings remain but I CLEAR the library clone?

My hunch is the clone caches a search path that was used in the clone parent, and uses it in the clone. This cache is flushed only when the seemingly-empty library is cleared. But since this retained search path is not displayed in Import Media, it leads to "unpredictable behavior" -- MC doesn't search what the dialog displays, and requires a unstated separate step in a separate dialog to resume behaving predictably. How would a user know to CLEAR a new clone that appears to be already empty?