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[benn600]

My family is looking to possibly build a new house.  We have looked at quite a few houses and I have no problems with layout/design/etc.  My big concern is obviously the technology.  One house we looked at had built in music players in most rooms with a control station.  Unfortunately, it really only offered inputs which would be controled from the main room.  Does anyone know of a good system that would basically include a decent LCD screen at each wall unit (for controling the room's audio) and therefore, I would obviously want to be able to play audio from Media Center using the built-in wall devices.  A wireless remote or two would be great as well--like the Sonos.  I think I counted around 10 separate room systems total.  Then, I would want to upgrade the speakers a bit to get some seriously decent speakers.

Then I was wondering about network connected light switches and motion detectors which could allow internet (network) controling of lights, fans, etc as well as the ability to read all the sensors from the internet.  An internet thermostat as well, ~$200+.

I imagined getting all the ethernet run throughout the house to run to a small room where I will have a rackmount with my servers and a nice rackmount gigabit switch.

Any other ideas?  I almost could envision automatic (therefore, network controlable) shades and blinds and possibly the theater equipment as well.

Home Automation!  Take care of it ahead of time and it shouldn't be terribly costly...especially when added onto the total cost of an entire house...small percentage of total cost.

[marko]

benn, you sure you're not ripping the piss?

[newsposter]

For home automation ideas, www.smarthome.com.  Their 2nd generation Insteon controllers are the shizz-nit.  Lots of ideas and product there.

In my 3 year old house (3900 finished sq ft), I have 36 'cable points' each of which have 3x cat5e and 2x catv.  There are 2 of these cable points in the main HT center and at least 3 in each room.  Don't forget to pre-wire the upper-corners of each bedroom wall for both power and cable so that a TV can be hung from the wall/ceiling.  Makes it easy to hide the wiring.

There are a pair of runs in the garage and one in the master bath.  There is a weather-proof box on the main deck too.

Everything home-runs to the mechanical room with gigE certified patch panels and the catv distro amplifier.  Plenty of rack space there for servers and UPS.  Whole house surge protection in the breaker panel.  Dedicated breakers isolated from any motor applicances like clothes driers, air compressor in the garage, and the central a/c.  Also dedicated breakers for power to the main HT center.

There are 2x 4 pair lines running to the outside wall for POTS (dial tone).  I had Quest run an underground 4 pair cable from their service pedestal to the house.  The Comcast Digital Voice CPE adapter box is capable of 4 more pair so I'm covered as far as POTS/dial-tone is concerned.  Those 8 copper pair connect to their own patch panel in the mech room.

There are three orphan runs of catv cable up into the attic (with lots of slack coiled up) for potential future sat tv dishes.  I'm on Comcast cable now but you never know.

Where to put all those cabling outlets?  When your home is under construction, make friends with the electricians.  They will want you out there anyway to advise/consent on where to put power outlets and light switches.  Ask for their help/opinion on all of those cabling outlets.  Buy all of the junction boxes for the cabling outlets ahead of time and hand them to the electricians so that the boxes will get nailed to the studs properly.  Use different color spray paints to highlight where you want the cabling outlet junction boxes installed.  Don't forget to also spec a power point up on the wall if you are going to put a cabling point up there for a TV set.

Be sure to give the electricians plenty of time to get their work done and make sure that there is plenty of time to get all of the low-voltage wiring done.  Builders really like to jam work crews in one after the other.  So be absolutely certain when the sheet rockers are scheduled to be in and make sure that all of the low-voltage wiring work is done BEFRE the rockers start their tasks.  The cover plates and cable termination does not have to be (and probably shouldn't be) complete, but all of the cable runs have to be in, labelled, tied up, and protected (use lots of nail protection plates) before the sheet rock goes up.  Once the sheet rock is up and everything is taped, sanded, and painted the cable runs can be terminated and rung out at leisure.

Use multiple colors of cat5e for each leg.  If there are three cat5e runs to each wall plate, use blue, black, and green cable for the A, B, and C runs.  Or whatever.  Stay with the color schemes for the home runs and label everything!!!  A leftover spool of cat5e can easily be donated to a school or something but if you screwup your wiring ID plan it will take aeons to sort out.

I did the work myself and used a Fluke NetTool (borrowed from the office) to ring out each individual run and certify for gigE.  The whole install cost a hair less than $1000- including the two switches, catv distro amp, the patch panels, patch cords, outlet boxes and faceplates, and over 5000 feet of cat5e and catv cable.  Used lots of nail protection plates (ask your plumber).  Took about a week to install working 3-4 hours each night after work.  With a competent helper the install could have easily done in one long day.

Hint: Take pics of each cable run in the walls before the sheet rockers get in there.  It's always nice to know exactly how the low-voltage runs go.

Hint x2: Establish a wiring ID plan using both labels and color-coded cable and stick to it at all costs!!!

Hint x3: Don't cheap out on switches.

Hint x4: re item 3.  Ditto for network patch panels.

Hint x5: re items 3 & 4, double-ditto for catv distro amplifiers.

Hint x6: Wireless of all kinds sucks dead bunnies for any and all kinds of AV distribution.

Hint x7: If you find it in the trash, it probably belongs there.

Hint x8: If you do not have the skill or attention span to do it right, contract it out.

[johnnyboy]

Benn - what does your family do!! I want a job in whatever line of work they're in.

To say you were minted would be an understatement!!

[Mr ChriZ]

I have to wonder at what point are you gonna sit
down and actually start enjoying your Media?

You seem semi ready for the on coming Apocalypse with
your 7TB uber RAIDed storage soloution server.(except in the case of a fire)

Joking aside I reckon you need a reality check.

Here's what Dr ChriZ prescribes.
Instead of all this computing crap, go hire a cottage
in the country for a couple of weeks with no power sockets,
just a gas cooker with a tin kettle.  Ideally somewhere near a beach.

Take an accoustic guitar even if you can't play one.
No IPods or equivilents.  Instead just a few friends.   A couple of crates of beer.

Make sure you take time to enjoy turning on the nice old fashion light switches,  or lighting a candle.
(Try not to set fire to the place).
You'll find the candle option a wireless source of light, with wind sensative deactivation.

Then ask yourself seriously.  Do you need a 7TB Raid server?

[JimH]

 

[JimH]

For home automation ideas, www.smarthome.com.  Their 2nd generation Insteon controlers are the shizz-nit.  Lots of ideas and product there.

Lunch.  Thanks for all the details.  I added your post to the FAQ.

[benn600]

Wow, newsposter...sounds like you know what's going on.

I was looking and considering the cheap residential grade stuff...but now I'll reconsider.  I have run a lot of ethernet and I wouldn't have any trouble running it myself.  The obvious necessity is to have someone advising where to put the outlets, etc.

I calculated that I have approximately 30 needed ports to run everything I have currently.  I obviously want to run more than 30 ports around the house.  One individual said if you need one cable, run three.  That's about right+.  So in the main switch area, do you have most of the cables not plugged in?  I saw a 24 port switch that I was considering but I would want 50+ cables run.  For your setup, do you have every port plugged in and working or do you just leave some unplugged?  Want to take a picture of your switch/server area for me to see?

You really sound like you went all out on pretty much everything.  I guess I'll be doing lots of research to figure out the best options as this house will obviously affect us for 15+ years.

Benn - what does your family do!! I want a job in whatever line of work they're in.

P.S.  lol.  I want to be in the business newsposter is in--that's a huge house.

[newsposter]

I'll update the Big Honking Post with answers to questions so it's easier to sticky.

[newsposter]

There is nothing that will kill a network faster and more mysteriously than crappy/cheap network switches.  You CANNOT hope to save a few buck$ by using crappy switches and then forcing the network to run at gigE.  I've seen plenty of 'gigE' networks running at about 10 meg throughput because the switches were incapable of moving enough packets fast enough.  There is a price/performance point that can be used to judge how likely a switch is to work properly.  If a 16 port 100 meg switch costs less than $150, good luck.  Decent 16 port gigE switches start at $250.  Stay away from Netgear and DLink and residential-grade Linksys.  If the 'switch' uses an external power adapter, it's probably crap.  Cisco (and commercial-grade Linksys) and TrendNet are known good.

I only run 100 full switched now.  That's plenty of bandwidth.  Assuming decent, non-blocking network switches, a properly built streaming server can support quite a few HDTV AV streams as well as multiple streams of 128 kbps audio.  The storage drives will saturate well before any 100 full interface will.  I picked up a pair of Cisco managed switches from ebay and have QoS and three vlans setup to ensure things work without interference or competion for bandwidth.

With all those cat5e ports, is everything 'enabled' and plugged into switches??  No.  I've only got enough ports plugged in to run what I need and have a load of 'extra' ports available on each of the Cisco switches.  I think that once network plant is installed and the end devices plugged in that there is very little 'move/change' activity.  All those ports in multiple switch plates gives me the flexibility to plug loads of stuff in without using those cruddy little 5 port desktop hubs and also helps to maintain full throughput to each network drop.

There are at least two common 'non-network' uses for all of that cat5e cabling.  First of all, cat5e can be used to support real phone lines.  If I ever move away from cordless phones in the house, just plug the wired phones into the RJ-45s and patch-panel the other end to the POTS line(s).  Remember that RJ-11 telco jacks are a sub-set of the RJ-45 standard.  If RJ-45 is 'everywhere' then RJ-11 is also installed by default, just snap the RJ-11 into the center of an RJ-45 jack.  The other common use is alarm wiring.  With a little bit of advance planning, it's easy to have cat5e runs near to windows and doors so that the (future) installation/hookup of a wired alarm system is very easy.

A small wireless access point can always be added to support those occasional laptop or PDA users who want to hook up.  It's recommended that an access point not be used for anything other than temporary connections.  There are far to many ways to compomise WiFi to risk having a full-time a/p running in a non-corporate environment with full-time security and monitoring/intrusion detection.  Having a small, isolated WiFi a/p on a dedicated port on an managed switch gives the ability to turn the data path on and off as necessary without actually having to pull cables out of a patch panel.  On some switches, Trendnet in particular, the up/down times of network ports can be automated/scheduled as needed.  I myself do not have a wireless a/p but acknowledge that a) I'm more paranoid/aware than most and b) other people have other needs.  Given the rest of the supporting infrastructure, this is just the safest way (IMHO) to set up a wireless a/p at home.

The catv distro amplifier is an upper-end Channel Master 'two-way' unit intended for use in a small apartment building.  A two-way distro amp must to be used to ensure that any two-way interactive catv (and sat) services can find a contiguous transmission path from your set-top boxes back to the providers network.  This is usually called 'back-channel' support.

My voice phones are (currently) a VTech 4 line 2.4Gz cordless phone base station that feeds up to 8 handsets (I own 6 handsets).  Line 1 is the Comcast Digital voice line.  Yes, the VTech base station is on the rackmount UPS.  Anyway, lines 2 & 3 are patched into a pair of "Dock n Talk" cell phone base stations that sit up on the kitchen counter.  The Dock n Talk is a bluetooth thing that emulates a car install kit for many cell phones.  This way, when the wife and I are in the house, all we need to do is to set our cell phones to their in-car profile, the DnT picks them up, and we can use our VTech handsets to make and receive calls on our cells.  Pretty handy.

The voice phones will probably be updated to a Siemens DECT 6.0 system as soon as Siemens starts selling their multi-handset units in the 'states.  DECT 6 runs on a dedicated freq band in the 1900 Mz range.  This pulls the phones away from the nasty-crowded and unregulated 2.4Gz band where WiFi, bluetooth, traffic radar, and microwave ovens live.  When I lived in Europe I had DECT phones in the house and their interference-free high-quality voice was simply wonderful.  Older DECT phones (v4 and v5 of the spec) are still available in the 'states but those run on the unregulated 2.4Gz band and suffer greatly from interference from WiFi.

[benn600]

My plan is to get a nice phone with base station that would ideally handle up to 12 handsets--would like that many.  Then, each room would have a charger with handset and the main base station would be in the basement by the server so it can easily be put on a UPS.  In the event of a power outage, all the phones would still work normally--great idea, eyy?

[newsposter]

Great idea until the UPS and handset batteries wear down.  But that's what I do.

If you've got rj-45 everwhere, you can also patch in wired phones as necessary.

[benn600]

That's a great point...do you recommend just running ethernet RJ45?  Then, you can convert it to phone?

But in the setup I would like to use--one base station in the basement--then we won't need phone anyway.  I bet you should run phone by default for resale value, though, right?

Lol.  The base station would run for hours on a cheap battery backup and with 10+ handsets, I'm not worried about batteries.  then we have cell phones as last resorts...and a wired phone in the server room as a REALLY last resort (lol).  then Skype.

[robydago]

benn,
is the rest of you're family asking you to sign a SLA for the data\voice services you're going to provide?...

[benn600]

Lol.  I should rephrase that.  My dad is good at running all the wiring.  I'm more interested in the planning of where to put everything.

I'd like in-wall LCD touch screens that could be turned on and quickly provide basic computer stuff--like our calendar, weather, and control the music speakers in the room--which would connect to MC and show cover art / video, too?  Really, it just needs to be a small touch screen LCD with a computer to control it and then with a lot of effort to setup something nice and easy to use, it could be quite nice.  Theater view on a little LCD would be fine!

This is so crazy and probably unlikely.  It would cost a fortune.

[newsposter]

you just snap the rj-11 into the center of the rj-45 connector.  It uses the center two pairs of the 4 pair rj-45.  easy as 1-2-3

[newsposter]

Cost?  What's that got to do with anything?

Seriously, it's not as expensive as you might think.  Home Theater and Home Automation techs make their $$$ on the design, install, and integration of the stuff, not so much on the actual sales of the hardware.  Labor and brains always costs more than hardware and software.

[benn600]

lol.  duh.  The next thing I want is an intercom system.  we have an intercom in our current house but it was an addon...basically they plug into the AC outlet and use the power wires.  They are radioshack brand.

What I would like is intercoms that plug into the network and use the built-in network infrastructure.  I mean why not use it for everything?  And I don't want it separate.  I want it on the standard network.  I also want it to have the ability to send messages to any or all units.  Perhaps a row of switches...all of which can be on or off.  10 would be fine.  Then I want it to have a computer component that would hear the broadcast message.  It could then record it as an mp3 and save it (just for the heck of it) and it could play the message through the computer speakers...or just popup a message saying a message is being said--so turn down your stereo!

The installation is not a problem.  My dad is quite a do-it-yourselfer.  We ran a lot of ethernet in our current house but it isn't as nice as it would be in a brand new house!

This is a really cool area that I really need to spend a lot of time on now.  The extra cost should look minor when added to the cost of a new house.

1. Phone
2. Ethernet
3. Ethernet intercom
4. Ethernet thermostat
5. Ethernet music players with room built-in speakers; network attached to control from any computer or proprietary remote control
6. Ethernet controled lighting?  That would be neat.

All these extra things are just making ethernet cable requirements go through the roof.  Imagine an ethernet cable at every light switch!  I suppose all those items could be put on a 10/100 Mb switch to save a little money.  There's no way a 48 port gigabit switch would cover everything!  I'm up to 30 with just the stuff I have now--and I don't have any of this network attached home automation stuff.

[benn600]

Wow: watch this!
http://www.podtech.net/home/1959/why-is-ethernet-inventor-bob-metcalfe-excited-about-home-networking

It is exactly what I want.  Listen towards the end on how if everything is integrated, what your house could do in case of a fire.

[newsposter]

re the intercom

If you choose the correct DECT phone system, the phones themselves can and will act as a multi-station intercom including conference calling and call transfer.

Problem solved.

As far as 'cool house' look in the timers and automation secion of smarthome.com for some nice software.

If you want to play around, cruise google for a copy of the old IBM Home Director.

As far as outlet, lighting, and appliance control, you are going to want to use X10/Insteon controllers and software from smarthome.com.

[benn600]

I know that things can "work" but it's almost the strong desire to have everything integrated that makes the whole plan seem less than amazing.  Everything should talk to everything and be available on a computer in some form.

Are there light switches/dimmers that have an ethernet port?  Then, there would be some server software to run that would allow custom written internet/desktop applications to interact with the server software-which would then interact with the switches.

[KingSparta]

I like German shades and blinds, maybe they have them in france also, but you can get them automated to open and close now days.

The best part about them is when they are closed and it is mid day you can not see a dang thing unless your alarm clock is in the same room.

I was told this was due to black out laws to keep enemy planes from seeing and Id-ing cities and towns.

I Painted My Windows On A Few Of My Rooms White, Then two Layers Of Black And Then two layers of White. I don't like light, it hurts my eyes. I often set in the dark or low light. I think I can fit into a family of "Rhinotermitidae" just nicely besides it keeps the glare down.

[newsposter]

nope, no controllers that directly connect to ethernet.  With the well designed, tested, and volume-produced (read: inexpensive) powerline controllers out there why would you want to waste ethernet drops and add all of that cabling and configurtion complexity when your house is already 'wired' for the powerline controller network?

'everything available on the computer' is already there with powerline controllers and the appropo software.

Get out there and try it sometime.

[goose2]

I hope you guys don't mind a question that's a bit off-topic here, but I've been lurking on this thread because I'm building a new shop/studio/office and trying to learn about connectivity. Part of what I need to do is build (or buy) a panel to install in a desk top with the following inputs: HDMI, CAT5, phone, RCA's for component and composite video and stereo audio, VGA video, and 110v AC. Can anyone point me towards a supplier for custom panels like this...or the bits to build one?
Sorry for the hijack...but it is related.
Thanks,
Randy

[KingSparta]

I think Lowes and home depot has some of this. including the tools to create your own cat5 runs.

We do have a electronics store here where i live, and if they don't have it they can get it, including boxes and conduits etc...

I personaly don't see a need in running cat5 all over the house.

I put the main drop into my computer room now a t1, and I network the other computers off of my Linksys Wireless-N Gigabit Router.

[benn600]

I think the ultimate solution for music in every room would be a small LCD touch screen panel in the wall.  Probably around 7 - 9".  Then, you may need a computer for each ... or ideally, if there was a way, run one computer with multiple monitors and somehow run all the monitor cables over that long distance.

Then, you would have the Media Center theater interface!  How amazing?!  I mean why go with some other proprietary system when the MC theater interface is literally perfect for this project.  The only issue would be the cost of the LCDs, but they shouldn't be terrible considering how small they would be.  The computers could be quite low end and still be capable of playing some video!  You could watch your favorite DVD in the wall.

Perhaps there could be a little box below or near the wall LCD that would lock and be able to be opened.  You could store the computer in there--possibly?  Perhaps in a fire resistant box--not sure what code would require.

That would be amazing...then setup each computer with Logmein (like I do now) and it would be a snap to update all the panels to the latest MC.  Just set them up to auto start MC in theater view.  Add a small app to monitor the process list and if MC terminates, just relaunch it!  PERFECT and not a completely proprietary system--just computers with software!

Then you need to find really small computers from Dell that would be small, cheap, and ready to go.  Low power and auto power saving would be vital.

[benn600]

Anyone know where I can buy 6 - 11 inch touch LCD screens?  I've done some initial checking at newegg, etc., and haven't found anything less than 15".  It seems like these would be quite common.  I would expect simply a VGA or DVI input with the standard AC input.

[benn600]

Move to Small Touchscreen LCDs thread...

[newsposter]

small computers and remote monitors from mp3car.com

Or you can use older models of the Fujitsu Stylistic tablet PCs.  For around $500 each you can get a reasonably fast machine with a docking station (that you can mount on the wall).  Even the most recent, very fast units can be had refur'b for about $1000-

[KingSparta]

benn600

I had a bat in my house last week.

More today in a Church

Are you and your fellow bats swarming?

[goose2]

Sparta....thanks for your input regarding my questions. I have found an impressive source for plugs, connectors, panels, cables, and all that stuff.  ramelectronics.net    No affiliation...just passing it on for anyone who needs it.

[MrHaugen]

Regarding to multiple monitors. Have anyone tried MC on some kind of terminal server with MC? Citrix and softgrid are the ones I know of. Though I have never tried it with MC. I read the you can start multiple MC's on the same computer. If you then can let each one control each zone you got a good starting point.

I also saw a mini outlet PC that was formed just like a power outlet. Just supported ethernet, usb, dvi and audio I think. The outlet PC was just some kind of stripped down thin client CP with outputs, but together with a terminal server I think it would work great.
Can't find the name or article now. Sorry.

If it would be possible to combine all of this things I think you would have a nice multi screen setup. At least one that is easy to configure, maintain and that's quite cheap.

EDIT:
Ahhh. Here it is: http://www.engadget.com/2005/10/31/jackpc-the-in-wall-thin-client/
It's called Jack-PC. Anyone tried any similar thin clients with MC?

[skeeterfood]

Ahhh. Here it is: http://www.engadget.com/2005/10/31/jackpc-the-in-wall-thin-client/
It's called Jack-PC. Anyone tried any similar thin clients with MC?

The actual website is here.

Wonder what they actually cost.  Seem to be completely geared towards business use, so I'd guess they're not cheap.

-John

[BartMan01]

One thing I have heard several times: it is a good idea to have at least one wiring drop (active or not) on every wall (esp. outside walls) in every room using in-wall conduit up to the attic (or to another accessible area).  That will make the wiring choices more 'future proof' in that it will be easy to run whatever wiring/fiber/etc. replaces the current crop of choices.

Anyone thinking about doing this after reading this tread needs to keep one important thing in mind:

Choice of builder is CRITICAL.  Many of the 'normal' builders in the new build sites (at least in my part of the US) are pretty inflexible when it comes to moving away from their 'standard' floorplan and wiring choices.  Depending on where you live, this may severely limit your choices/options or increase your cost.  Make sure any plans to have the house pre-wired to your specifications and by your choice of contracter are included in the contract to avoid issues down the line.

[benn600]

Good point.  It does help to have a builder who understands what you are trying to do and will either give you sufficient time to do the work or bring someone else in (or the builder)...and who will let you do what you want, ideally even providing good suggestions.

[KingSparta]

A 3 Years Ago I Came Out Of The Closet (Literally)

The Closet Was 4 Foot by 6 Feet, It Was My Computer Room

I Took Over A 10X13 Room

I Just Signed A Contract With My Contractor To Take One Of My Spare Rooms, And Turn It Into My New Computer Room. He Will Be Knocking Down A Wall And Installing Flooring, Electric Wall Plugs, Custom Built Table For Both me And My Wife's Compute.

Now I Will be Moving Into A 11 X 16 Foot Room

I Will Take Pictures.

[newsposter]

Don't forget decent air conditioning.

You'd be surprised how quickly the heat from two people and their computers will overwhelm a room that has 'normal' home air conditioning.

You might want to check out a cheap wall unit in that room as an add-on to whatever else your house has.