Topic: DO NOT INSTALL iTunes 8 (Read 31420 times)

JimH · « **on:** September 18, 2008, 06:47:06 am »

It will break MC's support for iPods.

Here's just one example:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=48305.msg331141#msg331141

ADDiCT · « **Reply #1 on:** September 18, 2008, 07:53:01 am »

What problems would there be with MC's iPod support? None of the posts in the thread you've linked to contains the term "iPod", the topic seems to be problems with playback of AAC files.

Alex B · « **Reply #2 on:** September 18, 2008, 08:02:48 am »

I think there are a couple of other threads/posts about iTunes 8 vs iPod problems.

The possible AAC / ALAC decoding problem may affect iPod users indirectly if the users are not able to import or play m4a files with MC at all.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** September 18, 2008, 08:34:20 am »

Every new version of iTunes has moved things around to break support for other programs. Apple seems more and more determined to exclude competition.

They aren't very nice.

jack wallstreet · « **Reply #4 on:** September 18, 2008, 12:25:03 pm »

The pattern that I have seen on this is:

1. Apple makes nasty changes
2. Jim reminds us how nasty Apple is and the resources it requires to adapt
3. J River addresses the problem in due course.
4. We quietly (most of us) wait, not updating until J River has a chance to adapt, having absolute confidence that will happen.

urlybird · « **Reply #5 on:** September 18, 2008, 01:59:01 pm »

After the latest Itunes 7.55 upgrade my Quicktime Pro license wouldn't install, called Apple and they tell me because my system drive is
Drive D: not C: that this not a standard install and is not supported so they can't help me.

So I have uninstalled Itunes and Quicktime Pro plus the stupid Mobile Me, Bonjour service, Apple Software update etc.,
everything Apple gone !!!. So I didn't even think about installing Itunes 8.

Check out how how other Itunes 8 installs have gone:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1703722&tstart=0

I have only blacklisted two other companies from my machine, Roxio (long time ago), and any MSN software.
Now I have added Apple to that list.

BryanC · « **Reply #6 on:** September 19, 2008, 12:51:52 am »

Quote from: JimH

DO NOT INSTALL iTunes 8

Don't have to tell me twice. And by twice, I mean once.

EZ22350 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 19, 2008, 03:05:11 am »

I've been saying NO to itunes since the extra-bloated version 7. Can Apple get dirtier?

stubbsy · « **Reply #8 on:** September 19, 2008, 07:17:14 pm »

Quote from: jack wallstreet on September 18, 2008, 12:25:03 pm

The pattern that I have seen on this is:

1. Apple makes nasty changes
2. Jim reminds us how nasty Apple is and the resources it requires to adapt
3. J River addresses the problem in due course.
4. We quietly (most of us) wait, not updating until J River has a chance to adapt, having absolute confidence that will happen.

Apple's approach here sucks, but don't assume JRiver will always be able to resolve it. At some stage it just won't be economic to have to deal with both the extra work and the disgruntled users each time Apple changes things. A simple example is it seems unlikely that the iPhone 3G will be supported by MC12 or MC13 because of Apple's lock down mentality

tombert · « **Reply #9 on:** September 21, 2008, 03:21:30 am »

Just can't await that someone is going to sue Apple for this behaviour ...

globetrotters1 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2008, 07:14:45 pm »

The whole story with Apple and its DRM lockdown mentality makes the whole iPod / iPhone etc.pp world mad - and it will go on and on and on! I really can't understand the whole hype around these expensive toys which are rendered useless within a short period of time.

That's why I decided a long time ago to stay far far away from all these gadgets, to stay away from any m4a files and to always laugh when I read that Jon Lech Johansen showed these greedy guys once again that bugging people simply doesn't work

And I'm absolutely convinced that it doesn't make much economical sense for JRiver to invest a lot of money into development of always new updated versions for something which is out of their influence or reach - they have much better things to do than wait for Apple to fool their clients again with a cool new version of iTunes or a new buggy version of an iPhone

All who buy all that have to blame themselves - imho

glynor · « **Reply #11 on:** September 23, 2008, 08:52:11 pm »

Quote from: globetrotters1 on September 22, 2008, 07:14:45 pm

to stay away from any m4a files

Just thought I'd mention that M4A is just a special name for an audio-only MP4, which is a completely open standard, MPEG-4, Part 14 (ISO/IEC 14496-14:2003). You do not need Quicktime in order to handle M4A files, it is just one option that does handle them (because the MPEG-4 standard was based upon the Quicktime MOV container format). There are plenty of other ways to handle them though, and many of them are preferred anyway.

There is nothing inherently "evil" about the M4A file type. In fact, it is one example of a way in which Apple embraces open standards.

Quote from: JimH on September 18, 2008, 06:47:06 am

It will break MC's support for iPods.

Here's just one example:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=48305.msg331141#msg331141

I've been getting fairly regular crashes of MC12 and MC13 on my laptop, which does have iTunes 8 installed on it. It seems to happen more frequently when I have my iPhone plugged in, though it is NOT limited to these occasions. It also seems to happen more frequently when MC is background thumbnailing video files (which do include MP4 and MOV file types). I do not have anything unchecked in my DirectShow playback types (other than WAV) though, and those files are decoded by Haali and FFDSHOW, not Quicktime.

Is this likely related? I have not seen similar crashes on my other machines (none of which have iTunes installed). I'd certainly prefer not to have iTunes installed anywhere, but that isn't currently an option for obvious reasons.

I can certainly save and mail-in log files, if it would help.

p7389 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2008, 05:19:18 am »

Why would anyone here want iTunes except to 1) update iPod firmware, but well, that only applies to the newest pods... they're done with previous generations, and 2) manage Touch/iPhone (in this case, I guess you are compelled).

These lockdown practices makes anything above iPod Classic/Nano (they seem to work OK and quite reliably - great work there J River!) unthinkable for me.

glynor · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2008, 07:41:14 am »

Quote from: p7389 on September 24, 2008, 05:19:18 am

Why would anyone here want iTunes except to 1) update iPod firmware, but well, that only applies to the newest pods... they're done with previous generations, and 2) manage Touch/iPhone (in this case, I guess you are compelled).

These lockdown practices makes anything above iPod Classic/Nano (they seem to work OK and quite reliably - great work there J River!) unthinkable for me.

I agree. I have an iPhone, of course, though so little choice...

steveklein · « **Reply #14 on:** September 28, 2008, 05:53:14 pm »

the iPhone is a sweet piece of technology. J River is a sweet piece of software.

it's ashame they cannot coexist, because together, they could really, really, really thrive.

the possibilities in my mind make me drool.

elo · « **Reply #15 on:** September 29, 2008, 04:52:58 pm »

To Glynor: I am a quality freak regarding audio so I am using m4a types audio on my 160GB iPod. Some weeks ago MC12 started to crash when trying to play these files (i have no iTune instaled). I am looking for another way of playing them than to use Quick Time. Do you hane any suggestions Glynor?

Alex B · « **Reply #16 on:** September 29, 2008, 04:59:44 pm »

The first post in this thread has a link to another thread. You can find my instructions for using the DC-Bass Source filter for m4a playback in that thread. DC-Bass Source should be able to decode AAC/m4 and ALAC/m4a files.

ajua · « **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2008, 01:12:06 am »

I always modify the original iTunes installer so it doesn't need Apple's QuickTime (you will need QuickTime Alternative), doesn't install Bonjour, MobileMe, Software Updater, etc...

I made new builds with every iTunes version.

I use Media Jukebox, but i haven't tried to sync my Nano 3rd gen with it while having iTunes 8 installed.

For all of us that need iTunes (i just use it to update firmware), try the installers i make at ajuaonline.com

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** October 06, 2008, 07:03:03 am »

Quote from: ajua on October 06, 2008, 01:12:06 am

For all of us that need iTunes (i just use it to update firmware), try the installers i make at ajuaonline.com

You deserve a medal! Thanks!

Valisystem · « **Reply #19 on:** October 06, 2008, 02:16:44 pm »

This is a good breakdown of what Apple includes with an iTunes installation and how to pick out individual pieces: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=554

ajua · « **Reply #20 on:** October 09, 2008, 11:47:23 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 06, 2008, 07:03:03 am

You deserve a medal! Thanks!

You are welcome.

frankie3s · « **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2008, 11:03:58 pm »

Quote from: ajua on October 09, 2008, 11:47:23 pm

You are welcome.

Great site Ajua. Thank you!

Tanguero · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2008, 11:44:17 am »

Is there any hope for us who installed iTunes 8 before reading this warning? Will MC12 be adapted?

risingdamp · « **Reply #23 on:** October 15, 2008, 02:58:01 am »

Yeh, I already installed v8 too. I only did it because I could find no way of checking if my firmware was up to date, which it was so I need not have bothered. If I remove iTunes now will all be well? Incidentally I did resync my iPod with MC12 immediately after i installing v8 and it seems ok.

RobOK · « **Reply #24 on:** October 20, 2008, 11:56:17 am »

Same boat here... installed v8 to update iPhone firmware. Hopefully not too much will be messed up,

Rob.

UdoS · « **Reply #25 on:** December 15, 2008, 08:47:35 am »

I had a similar problem: I couldn't play CD's and the cd-inventory was not showing all tracks. After switching to the default libary, evering was working. The problem seems to be in the libaryfile "mediafiles.jmd". After copying the file from the working into the corrupted libary, everything was ok.
There is a significant difference in size too (16k vs. 295k).

thorathome · « **Reply #26 on:** January 19, 2009, 02:53:07 pm »

So what's the current status of iTunes 8?
I use an iPod with MC 12, but just got an iPhone.
iTunes 8 installed itself automatically with the iPhone.

If I don't let my iPod "see" iTunes 8, am I ok?
Will I be able to use my new iPhone with MC?
Does MC 13 fix this issue?

Thanks in advance for a clear summary. I read the threads, but seek enlightenment.

Thor

JimH · « **Reply #27 on:** January 19, 2009, 02:56:45 pm »

You could read this:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=49102.0

thorathome · « **Reply #28 on:** January 19, 2009, 03:02:28 pm »

Thanks! On it.

I cannot imagine moving to iTunes for music management - just not flexible enough for large libraries or server-based music systems.

I'll go wail on Apple now.

Thor

blindjim · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2009, 01:39:51 pm »

Why then would iTunes current ver play files with greater speed than MC 12.534?

I thought iTunes was required fror MC to play their AAC & ALAC files.

Is support for the iPhone thingy all one need worry about losing if the later ver is installed?

JimH · « **Reply #30 on:** January 22, 2009, 03:01:46 pm »

Quote from: blindjim on January 22, 2009, 01:39:51 pm

I thought iTunes was required fror MC to play their AAC & ALAC files.

Quicktime, not iTunes, is enough to play AAC. There are also Directshow filters available to play AAC. Try google.

rbentley · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2009, 01:53:30 pm »

I am a little confused about the current status of this problem. Here is my situation.

I have a Creative Zen and I use MC12 exclusively for managing my audio and video files and syncing with the Zen. I absolutely love MC12. Next to my Browser and Word it is my most frequently used piece of software.

I just purchased an iPhone and am awaiting for it to arrive. I would prefer to use MC with my iPhone but you have to have iTunes with an iPhone. There is no other way to install firmware updates and use the App Store. The iPhone apps are a big reason I went to it.

So I am in the group of people who need both. Will i be ok still using MC for my Zen and just using iTunes for my iPhone?

Thanks.

Taxee · « **Reply #32 on:** April 10, 2009, 01:47:44 pm »

I just bought a new computer and had loaded iTunes 8. Do I have to uninstall it to get MC to work?

I have a number of problems with your solution of not installing iTunes 8:

1. I have an iPod touch with the iPhone software installed. I need to access iTunes for software upgrades,

2. I need to play m4a files. Do I need to search around for another method of playing them?

I have been an MC user for years but am now considering looking for another option (if it exists).

My advice - Apple is a huge fish compared to JRiver. If you are going to survive in the same pond that they are swimming in, you have to be quick and adaptable. Saying that I can't install a piece of Apple software in the current environment is simply unacceptable. You have to be able to coexist with them or your survival in the long-term is questionable.

I don't like Apple's approach nor do I like Microsoft's but you can't simply ignore them.

I don't have the time to spend reading myriad posts and trying to figure a workaround to a problem that should not exist.

This appears to have been a problem since Sept/08 and you still do not have a solution for it? This in my view is not acceptable and so I am off to search for a solution. MC was my solution for a number of years but I need something that can coexist with apple - I need the ability to upgrade my iPod software and access to the Apple app store.

If it's not MC, I may have to settle for iTunes as much as I don't want to.

Alex B · « **Reply #33 on:** April 10, 2009, 02:11:51 pm »

This is an old thread and MC12 development has ended. Did you install MC and simply try it? Does it work despite that you have iTunes 8 installed? Mine works perfectly fine.

(...though I don't sync iPhones with MC or with anything else. The microSD card of my Nokia Phone works fine with MC.

)

EDIT

M4a playback through QuicTime should work as before (inside MC), but a better solution is to install the DC-Bass Source DirectShow filter and configure MC to use DirectShow decoding for m4a playback. It would make possible to use internal volume, replay gain, DSP, visualizations, CD burning and the file converter. (This does not apply to DRM protected m4p files. QuickTime is the only way to play them.)

Taxee · « **Reply #34 on:** April 10, 2009, 02:42:42 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on April 10, 2009, 02:11:51 pm

This is an old thread

Then the link from the MC 13 should be deleted and the issue addressed in the MC 13 forum. I have not upgraded to MC 13 and won't if it is broken with iTunes 8.

Quote from: Alex B on April 10, 2009, 02:11:51 pm

Did you install MC and simply try it? Does it work despite that you have iTunes 8 installed? Mine works perfectly fine.

MC 12 works but unable to play m4a files.

Quote from: Alex B on April 10, 2009, 02:11:51 pm

M4a playback through QuicTime should work as before (inside MC), but a better solution is to install the DC-Bass Source DirectShow filter and configure MC to use DirectShow decoding for m4a playback. It would make possible to use internal volume, replay gain, DSP, visualizations, CD burning and the file converter. (This does not apply to DRM protected m4p files. QuickTime is the only way to play them.)

I will try this. However, my larger problem is that, based on the link to this thread in the MC13 forum, MC no longer is compatible with the current version of iTunes.

Alex B · « **Reply #35 on:** April 10, 2009, 03:14:56 pm »

I just switched to another PC that has iTunes 8 installed. I converted two files to m4a with iTunes. One to AAC/m4a and one to ALAC/m4a.

Then I opened MC13. I changed the m4a playback settings to use QuickTime instead of DirectShow. I dragged the m4a files to Playing Now and started playback. Both files played fine, but without the possiblity to use DSP, which verifies that QT was used for decoding the files.

I don't have MC12 installed on that PC, but at least m4a playback in MC13 works with the QT version iTunes 8 installed. (The iTunes 8 build may not be the latest. I installed it in January.)

Taxee · « **Reply #36 on:** April 10, 2009, 03:27:35 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on April 10, 2009, 03:14:56 pm

I don't have MC12 installed on that PC, but at least m4a playback in MC13 works with the QT version iTunes 8 installed. (The iTunes 8 build may not be the latest. I installed it in January.)

I will spend some time to try to see why m4a is not playing.

I don't know if anyone from JRiver is working today but my larger concern is the statement on "INTERACT FORUM > General > Media Center 13 > DO NOT INSTALL iTunes 8" that iTunes 8 "will break MC's support for iPods". That is a non-starter for me as far as MC13 goes as the only reason I have used MC in the past was to allow me to manage my iPod loads much more effectively than iTunes.

JimH · « **Reply #37 on:** April 10, 2009, 03:36:54 pm »

Please post your concerns on our iPod and portable device board here.

Apple has decided to block other software developers. We're not spending any more time on their new "protected" players (the Touch and the iPhone) until they change, if ever.

You could tell Apple what you want.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: DO NOT INSTALL iTunes 8 (Read 31420 times)