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Author Topic: My HDHomeRun Results  (Read 9346 times)

benn600

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My HDHomeRun Results
« on: March 06, 2009, 02:47:49 pm »

I have been working a lot with the HDHomeRun over the past few days.  The device includes two tuners and a network interface, basically placing high definition television on the network.  The key to the device is the software, which is intelligent enough to make multiple tuners highly feasible.  You start with two out of the box.  After installing the software, it finds them as two separate tuners (one box of course).  You can then enable or disable each one.  I then select over the air antenna.  There is a checkbox to dynamically allocate tuners and this is critically important.  Each tuner creates a physical device on your computer (*tuner*-0, *tuner*-1, etc.)  This allows for the computer to use all the available tuners.

When Computer A requests a channel on the default tuner (0), it gets it from tuner 0.  If Computer B requests a channel from the default tuner (0), it will dynamically select tuner 1 instead.  This allows one computer to steal all the tuners by using each one's virtual hardware device--so multiple tuner recording can be used.

The device is small, neat, and clean.  It is also cool to the touch!  I have never had a networking device that was this small that didn't feel like it was on fire.  From our antenna, we have an 8-way splitter block.  7 of these go throughout the house with the 8th going to a 4-way splitter.  I am using two of these for the tuner box.  I will likely add a second box and use the other two ports for these.

My favorite advantages of this product are:
1. Not overly expensive ($170 or less) for two tuners!  Plus, you share them among computers so you don't need 1:1 tuner:computer ... and you are sort of getting dual tuner ability on each computer.
2. Watch TV from any computer in the house!  No more worrying about network AND coax connections.
3. Very stable and reliable.  I have yet to experience a crash.  Hardware tuner cards are lucky if they start up properly it seems.
4. The best part is that if properly configured, the MC theater view will contain TV too!  All your media and television in one unified interface.  Who wouldn't want the power of MC here?
5. Software installation on a PC is very fast and convenient.  On the Mac I had to wait several minutes for a few external files to be downloaded.

No to a few bad things.
I ran around to different HTPCs and computers, starting and stopping to see how well the auto allocation of tuners feature works.  It does work splendidly.  You can start your TV and stop in any order, simply receiving the available tuner.  If a third user tries to watch TV, the first two do not get interrupted.  Unfortunately, this third user sees a PLAIN black screen.  It would be nicer to receive an error: "A television tuner is currently unavailable."  If I can be of any help to add a message like this, please let me know.

Probably the worst problem of all is that pretty much no computer we own can play HD flawlessly.  They are all borderline good.  It does play, but at about 10 - 15 frames per second.  The systems are obviously not able to keep up fully.  This is of course horrible news because:
1. I could replace the processors, assuming they're the bottleneck (probably true) -- some mobos might be limited.
2. I could find a new system that works well and build or buy several to replace the systems.  Then I have all these unused computers, though.  I see no reason to keep a machine that cannot play HD at this point...but upgrading will be a large endeavor.  It's interesting that the machines meet the minimum system requirements but still can't quite keep up.

My printers, security cameras, file server, internet, etc. are all network resources so why not TV?  This device is exactly what I had been looking for and actually does exactly what I asked for recently:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=50181.0
<- SOLVED!
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skeeterfood

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2009, 03:12:30 pm »

So can you use MC to schedule recordings and see the program guide?  Since we're both in CR (actually, I'm in Marion) how many OTA HD channels do you get?  What kind of antenna are you using?

-John
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benn600

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2009, 06:28:21 pm »

We get 17 channels here.  (2.1, 2.2, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 9.1, 9.2, 12.1, 12.2, 12.3, 20.1, 28.1, 28.2, 48.1, 48.2, 48.3, 48.4)  That is, of course, when 7 is broadcasting.  Did you see that hilarious article in the paper?  It was sent in by someone and just talked about how (in a very funny manner) 7 doesn't broadcast right.  We had just got 7 working and were watching SNL in our theater.  15 minutes in or so it went from a flawless picture to nothing.  Shortly later, it started again....then stopped.

We have a rooftop antenna that took a lot of fiddling with to get just right.  It is finally working very well.  We split it 11 times for the house + HDHomeRun boxes but the amplifier really helps.

The Silicon Dust web site (maker of HDHomeRun) has a channel listing utility that shows screenshots from the channels.  It is very useful.  I checked Culver City, CA, where I was this past summer and they have around 130 OTA channels.  Wouldn't that be CRAZY?  I rarely watch TV but not that it is conveniently placed on every computer, find myself watching it more.  I am sickened by all the junk on television.  If it isn't stupid infomercials then it's a horribly uninteresting or junkie show.
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Daydream

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2009, 06:44:34 pm »

This may be a dumb question but I'll risk it :) You got 2 RF inputs on the unit. Is one Cable and one OTA? Or one feed is enough to get 2 ClearQAM channels simultaneously (watch 1st/record 2nd; record both, etc)? The inputs are labeled Tuner 1 / Tuner 2, doesn't say if the use is dedicated or not.

Also, as I haven't track this progress down, where are we as far as waking up the PC from various states of power saving, upon starting a scheduled recording? So I can throw away the Tivo and their crappy fees.

Thanks!
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JimH

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2009, 06:48:21 pm »

Also, as I haven't tracked this progress down, where are we as far as waking up the PC from various states of power saving, upon starting a scheduled recording?
It's not quite right yet.  Matt wants it, so it will happen.
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benn600

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2009, 09:50:04 pm »

We have a gigantic roof top antenna...I think the largest at our local dealer.  After that, there is an antenna amplifier with a passive piece on the antenna and an active unit plugged in inside the house.  From there it gets split 8 ways to go throughout the house outlets and one of those goes to a 4-way splitter that give me 4 coaxial connections to hookup to the two HDHomeRun boxes I use--2 ports each.

I am not sure how well it would work without an amplifier but the way it is works well.  I've learned and heard others agree that getting OTA working just right can include some trial and error.  It took several months to get things in a good working state.  I devote very little time to television anyway so OTA works great.  I love one time fees a lot more than monthly fees :( ... even if they're a lil' big.  lol.  Subscribing to a service would make matters a nightmare, too, getting it all to work with MC not to mention storing a hideous costly box next to every TV :( again.
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Daydream

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2009, 11:43:35 pm »

I'm in cable-land, so OTA doesn't do it for me since I'm in a valley and the signal doesn't get here; and second my cable company as much as I dislike their practices, they send in ClearQAM more than what's available in OTA. Upon a bit of more research it does seem that both RFs need to be connected in order to drive both tuners - this is opposed to Tivo(HD) where one cable connection takes care of both. Not a big thing, it's just me that I'm becoming allergic to run (again) cables, install splitter and the likes :).

As far as stability I'm curious since I see it being highly praised. If you have 2 concurrent scheduled recordings about to begin and you're watching a 3rd channel what happens - either with the tuners or the software driving them?
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benn600

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 12:53:36 am »

Are you actually wanting to use HDHomeRun with Media Center?  I was highly motivated to get it all working brilliantly for a while but have lost the desire due to several issues:

1. Some cases are not fast enough for HD...forget it!
2. Another just seems to have an unknown problem with playing the stream correctly.
3. There are delays that seem greater than the officially supported tuners.
4. Some features do not function.  I cannot seem to even record shows--but I can time shift.  Strange.

Like I said, I have lost the motivation for this at the moment.  Of course that is highly normal with this media stuff.  I've become busy with other stuff and this falls of the priority list for the time being.  I am still a huge fan of the device and even if it didn't work with MC at all, I'd buy a box.  It is so amazing to be able to watch television on any desktop or laptop with a quick utility installation.  It places yuckie-coax cables (technical term) on the nice, simple, clean Ethernet cable.  Everything should be a network resource!  (you heard it here first!  lol)

I own 2 boxes giving me 4 tuners and find that with any decent setup including a desktop and HTPC plus the occasional laptop, 2 tuners can go pretty fast.  It's great to get them in multiples of two, though.  You are basically buying tuners that are shared as opposed to dedicated so it's almost logical to buy enough for two per machine (dual tuners) but you have the benefit of knowing you'd never truly need that many.

Let me know how it works for ya!  It's an interesting, not well known, product.
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Daydream

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 02:17:42 am »

Ordered :). If Newegg ships this from their center in NJ I should get it pretty fast.

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benn600

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2009, 11:15:23 am »

 ;D
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Daydream

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2009, 01:13:09 am »

The device is definitely worth it! :) Fact is I got it because the technology was just too cool to pass it :)

My experience so far with the device is not very large since I just got it hooked up, and mainly just started tuning in from various computers around the house using VLC. But the one thing that impressed me is the apparent ease with which it handles channels, changes and the likes (again using pretty much just it's own software and VLC). From my past experience (till like 2-3 years ago when I quit playing with tuners 'cause I was fed up) was expecting something to brake, to go crazy, BSOD and the likes, when you start kicking channels on multiple computers. No problems there. Drivers seem to be really well developed, with a much appreciated variety of options - BDA drivers, Vista x64 supported, yes! :)

Got no problem on the decoding side, even my Athlon 3200+ laptop it's playing everything just fine (at the limit but no drops). Another point - close captions works too (if anybody needs them).

A couple of things to figure out:
- any advice on a passive splitter (5-1000MHz is enough, 5-2400MHz will improve anything?)
- running 2 channels on the same machine (different windows same app, or different apps)
- thoroughly test recording (VLC is not my strong point for this)
- two HD channels that I want were not detected, need to see what's going on, Tivo sees them.

Specific to MC13: QAM is not supported (so no cable support). Was half-hinted that it may come in MC13 so I guess I'll wait and see. Heh, even Vista didn't have QAM support until TV pack 2008 and that brought other problems.

Benn I see no reason not to stack 'em :). If only there would be more OTA / clearQAM channels...
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benn600

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2009, 08:57:20 am »

I can't believe how you stole the words right out of my mouth.  I, too, was fed up with tuners up until these.  I was sick of channel changing problems--slow, crashy, etc.  For once, a hardware tuner device that seems perfectly stable.

While VLC works great for casual watching, I have always noticed some issues with the player.  It just has some quirks I always have to get around.  The VLC playback is purely for testing or casual use.  The app that starts VLC appears to be capturing the stream and creating a local server for VLC.  With a good program like MC, there is no problem using multiple tuners.

Have you tried it with MC?  I find the best luck is picking the Other: ATSC/QAM item from the drop down.  But let me know your experience with MC because I'm curious if your [likely different than mine] setup is just enough different that you may report back giving good results.  I noticed a few issues with the PVR functionality in MC + hdHomeRun.  However, for the time being, just being able to watch TV is great.  It is so amazing to know that your one Ethernet cable now handles coax!

I don't have any trouble with the splitter setup I'm using but I also don't know anything about it.  Just an amplifier followed by 8-way and 4-way splitters.  Everything works great.
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benn600

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2009, 08:36:34 pm »

Each new version strangely seems to offer better and better support with fewer and fewer issues overall and with the HDHomeRun.  Things are getting better in some ways.  I'll just remain patient and keep seeing how the new versions look.

One thing I figured out is that recording to my local drive seems to work much better than recording to a network drive.
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Daydream

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2009, 02:01:24 pm »

So far I didn't have enough time to fully test the setup. However I can say that I got it working with MC (QAM to ATSC channel mapping), got the EPG working (mc2xml); watching/switching channels works like a charm, with dynamic tuner allocation and all. Watch one channel and record another also works. Timeshifting also works (much appreciated the options in MC in this regard, to save the timeshift recording or do many other things with it). Scheduled recordings works.

On things that I still need to work on:
- need to test recording 2 channels at once
- I can't say I like the recording style in MC with .jtv files, 171MB chunks and the likes. It works but... I think I've read that recording to .mpg it's coming so that would make things easier / more straightforward.
- for some reason the HD feed of the channel is not the one that gets recorded, but the SD one. I think I must've done something wrong somewhere. This was all in a hurry.
- need to experiment with various power saving states (Vista) and scheduled recordings; really happy with JRiver efforts in this direction, looking forward to more updates.

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benn600

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Re: My HDHomeRun Results
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2009, 07:23:27 am »

Some of those are general TV issues, though.  You're having slightly better results than I am.  Probably something with my install.  Good to hear!
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