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[Mr ChriZ]

This is the latest version of MC 15.  Please post bugs here.  Please start a new thread for anything requiring discussion.  Non-bug posts will be deleted or moved. 

http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/beta_swag/MediaCenter150047.exe

15.0.47 (5/19/2010)

4. Changed: The default ripping encoder is 'Monkey's Audio (APE)' instead of 'Windows Media'.

I think that's going to cause wife/my mum type characters no end of confusion....
MP3 would seem to make the most sense here to me...

[leezer3]

I think that's going to cause wife/my mum type characters no end of confusion....
MP3 would seem to make the most sense here to me...

+1, the trouble is that the default will no longer transfer to a 'standard' portable device, but requires conversion.
I'd agree that the default should stay as a common format, not one which is far more audiophile centric

An option in the install wizard would be nice, something like this:
I'd like to rip my music in this format:
* MP3- Easily portable, plays on anything.
* WMA- Similar to MP3??
* APE- Lossless compressed format
* WAV- Lossless standard compression

-Leezer-

[Matt]

+1, the trouble is that the default will no longer transfer to a 'standard' portable device, but requires conversion.
I'd agree that the default should stay as a common format, not one which is far more audiophile centric

Everyone will have an opinion about encoders, which is why its optional.

The old default (WMA) requires conversion for iPods and Androids.

I was reticent to switch to Monkey's Audio (Jim has been asking for a long time), but defaulting to perfect quality and secure ripping fits well with JRiver's goal of being the premium computer audiophile solution.  

I can't imagine regretting having my files in APE since I can easily convert using just about any audio program.  I can imagine regretting having all my files as lossy WMA.

[jmone]

Everyone will have an opinion about encoders, which is why its optional.

How true!

I keep most of mine in FLAC and WMA Lossless and while WMA Lossless works with my WinMo device, I still prefer to transcode when syncing as I don't think I'll be hearing the benefit of lossless on this device so I may as well save some space.  I've also now got two ***horror of horrors*** iPhone devices in the house so I'll be converting anyway. 

I love the concept (not so much the current execution) of creating a full MP3 Version as a stack so that I've a copy that will work with any of these low fidelity devices while keeping my hi fidelity stuff on the server!

[JimH]

I think everyone at JRiver uses APE.  Isn't that good enough reason to switch?

A lossy encoder is probably no longer the best choice.

The option can easily be changed.

Conversion when loading a device is also possible.

[rpalmer68]

I've used APE for the start, although I am a little surprised that the JRiver ID device doesn't support it....

Richard

[JimH]

I've used APE for the start, although I am a little surprised that the JRiver ID device doesn't support it....

We're in the first rev.  It may still happen.

For now, we'll convert APE to high bitrate MP3 or WAV.

[rjm]

Just wanted to say that making secure rip default on is a great idea because I bet a lot of users don't understand it, and it is very important to use it.

[GHammer]

Lossless is lossless.
Until the device you have only supports one.
Then, you have to change.

Stupid WD HD TV Live anyway...

[glynor]

I also think this change is a good idea.  For the novice users who might never think to check these options, at least you're giving them a very good quality lossless (and secure) rip, which is fully supported by MC, and can always be transcoded later to MP3 or AAC or whatever with no harm done.

So, when my clueless brethren rip most of their CD collection before I come over and look at the settings and switch them (or, in this case, leave them alone unless they're on a laptop and really short on drive space), I don't have to scream and suggest they re-rip their entire collection.

[gappie]

i also think it is a great idea. i think most people will choose mc for the quality of sound, and secure ape is a much better starting point then wma.

 
gab

[cncb]

I would like to go to lossless/APE but is there an option to "normalize" volumes when converting for a portable device (like the one for burning CDs)?  I currently use MP3 with MP3Gain for this purpose.

[joshhuggins]

I keep seeing everyone mention 'secure' when referring to APE. What is the secure aspect of it? I don't see anything mentioned on the Monkey's Audio or wikipedia touting the security of it.

[gappie]

I keep seeing everyone mention 'secure' when referring to APE. What is the secure aspect of it? I don't see anything mentioned on the Monkey's Audio or wikipedia touting the security of it.

it is not saying that ape is more secure, but referring to an other change:

3. Changed: The default ripping mode is now 'Secure' (can be changed in Options > CD & DVD)

 
gab

[Alex B]

I would like to go to lossless/APE but is there an option to "normalize" volumes when converting for a portable device (like the one for burning CDs)?  I currently use MP3 with MP3Gain for this purpose.

I think I have occasionally requested for adding DSP Studio to the conversion options since 2005 or so.

DSP Studio is available in the Audio CD burner and recently JRiver added Replay Gain to DNLA conversions. Adding DSP Studio (not only Replay Gain) to all conversion options would be useful for many kinds of situations. For instance, you may have files of a higher sample rate or more than two channels that you would like to convert to the standard 44.1 KHz stereo format for a portable or for burning an MP3 CD or perhaps you would like to use EQ correction if the source files are less than optimal.

[Matt]

I keep seeing everyone mention 'secure' when referring to APE. What is the secure aspect of it? I don't see anything mentioned on the Monkey's Audio or wikipedia touting the security of it.

This is a side topic, but lossless compression is a lot more secure (from an audio fidelity standpoint) than WAV.

APE has multiple redundant error checking systems built into the decoder to ensure the output data exactly matches the input data.  I think FLAC probably has something like this as well.

A WAV file can be corrupted and you would have no way to know.  This is not just theoretical.  Twice I've had bad system memory that corrupted my music (I had backups).  With WAV, I would have never known.

[cncb]

DSP Studio is available in the Audio CD burner and recently JRiver added Replay Gain to DNLA conversions. Adding DSP Studio (not only Replay Gain) to all conversion options would be useful for many kinds of situations.

This sounds great to me.  What do you say JRiver?

[glynor]

This is a side topic, but lossless compression is a lot more secure (from an audio fidelity standpoint) than WAV.

APE has multiple redundant error checking systems built into the decoder to ensure the output data exactly matches the input data.  I think FLAC probably has something like this as well.

A WAV file can be corrupted and you would have no way to know.  This is not just theoretical.  Twice I've had bad system memory that corrupted my music (I had backups).  With WAV, I would have never known.

Cool!

[flac.rules]

not very important for me' but why not flac? ape is nice, but flav is just as good, open and more or less a de facto standard.

[JimH]

We flipped a coin.  APE won.

You can, of course, decide for yourself.

[jmone]

We flipped a coin.  APE won.

Better check Matts coin!

[HiFiTubes]

I used .ape for a long time. Hardware compatibility was one reason I switched. I recently read the .ape does a MUCH better job with high resolution files 96kHz+....

I'm considering .ape again but guys please...

Why not integrate all .ape features into MC?

Verify function with robust reporting has been missing too long from within MC. Currently if you want to verify a massive library, with MAC, you have to chunk it and be careful to save your results manually/visually as you can't export it (as far as I know).

A metadata field for checksum results should be included....I'm all for .ape, but please, integrate and support it in MC15+ environment.

[DarkPenguin]

Ape creates mellow, rounded bits whereas Flac creates clipped bits.  So although they both produce files that are binary identical we all know that rounded bits are better for odd harmonics that the harsher flac bits.  Beyond that Matt tuned the decoder to play a jaunty melody via the CPU fan.

Remember that just because the final output is identical doesn't mean that you can't hear a difference.

[sunfire7]

Ape creates mellow, rounded bits whereas Flac creates clipped bits.  So although they both produce files that are binary identical we all know that rounded bits are better for odd harmonics that the harsher flac bits.  Beyond that Matt tuned the decoder to play a jaunty melody via the CPU fan.

Remember that just because the final output is identical doesn't mean that you can't hear a difference.

I dont understand, if the final output is the same, how can you hear a difference?? or are you just saying that you could have a "placebo" effect of ape sounding better just because it has a better compresion algo than flac?

[Alex B]

DarkPenguin was joking.

Lossless is lossless. When lossless files are decoded during playback or conversion the PCM audio stream is the same as the original uncompressed stream. For instance, a DAC doesn't get any information about the possible lossless encoding & decoding process that may have happened before the audio stream reaches it.

MC has full support for four different lossless formats, but Monkey's Audio is the logical choice for the default format because JRiver can support it more directly than the other formats. If the encoding or decoding process has a problem there is a good chance that Matt can fix it quickly (this has happened in the past). If a problem is caused by some other codec fixing it may not be as easy (also this has happened in the past).

[DarkPenguin]

All good points by Alex B and a jpeg I've emailed to a half dozen people.  (I also forgot that APE has auto green marker technology.)