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Author Topic: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?  (Read 15670 times)

Osho

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As someone who has absolutely loved the Red October premise - and it has been largely delivered by J River - I was wondering if LAV CUVID is used by Red October HQ for those users with Nvidia cards? If yes, does it "just work" ? If not, it would be great for Nvidia users for it to just work :).

Thanks,
Osho
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jmone

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 07:03:58 pm »

I've been playing with this and have gotten good results by:
- Red October HQ with additional filters
- The for the major types (eg Blu-ray, MPG, etc) change from Automatic to MC's Direct Show option and just add LAV CUVID

I've not had a chance to play with Subs but the deinterlacing of HD content now looks great (with adaptive deinterlacing) with my CPU cores 1/3rd of what they were.

That said I'm having all sorts of issues with the nVidia card accepting 24hz as a valid option with my setup (Intel / ATI is fine).  One step forward, one step back  :(
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mojave

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 08:29:16 pm »

I use LAV CUVID. Once you install the filter, you need to use Advanced: Red October HQ with additional filters. Set playback method to JRiver Video Engine and select LAV CUVID as the video decoder. I'm not on my work computer right now (which has the GTX260) so I can't check, but I think MC uses the internal LAV Audio and Splitter if you leave them to automatic. I have the manual versions installed, too, so MC may be using those. However, I think Red October with manual filters uses internal versions unless otherwise specified. In other words, it just works.  :)
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mojave

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 09:21:24 am »

I confirmed that MC uses the internal versions of LAV Audio and Splitter if you only add LAV CUVID as an Other Filter.
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Osho

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 01:13:46 pm »

Thanks jmone and mojave for sharing the results of your experiments.

I am curious to know if it is on the radar for J River to make LAV CUVID "just work" in RO HQ mode? If so, I will wait for it to come - or else I will get busy experimenting as jmone and mojave suggested :).

Thanks,
Osho
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glynor

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 01:30:57 pm »

I mentioned it once before, but...

I really think it would be useful to have a "Use LAV CUVID for Video decode acceleration (Nvidia Only)" option in the Options -> Video section somewhere.  This is something that a lot of people are going to want: Red October just as it is, only slotting in LAV CUVID when appropriate instead of FFDSHOW to get hardware acceleration.

If implemented well, this could actually be better than setting it manually.  Because Red October has the opportunity to know a bit more about the contents of the files, it could even ONLY use LAV CUVID when appropriate (say, a MKV file containing an H264 stream) and keep FFDSHOW for stuff where GPU acceleration would have little or no impact (a different MKV with a MPEG-2 or ASP stream).
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mojave

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 01:34:27 pm »

Quote from: glynor
I mentioned it once before, but...
not in so few words!  ;D
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jmone

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 04:45:15 pm »

This may sound Odd coming from me, but I (and of course it is JR that counts) kind of see RO as a project to bring an easy/universal working Solution to the masses (and I think it has done a great job of this).  I'm swayed by arguments that we may need a HW Assisted/Accelerated option to increase the usability over a wider range of HW Specs, but where do you draw the line for what is in RO and what is part of RO With Additional Filters?....

Take LAV CUVID for example, if it was included in RO:
1) Only works with nvidia (so are we going to have a HAM option for ATI, what about Intel, or just DXVA for all?)
2) Decoding feature is dependant on the model of the card for the profile it supports
3) Going to need to add in FFDSHOW (or something) to do subs (I hate Subs did I mention :) )

As I said it is just "where do you draw the line".  I guess, you could have a bunch of different RO Profiles that are exposed based on a users HW Config but I'm not sure how much time and effort it would take and how big the internal MC market would be.  Lets face it, most of us who end up playing with stuff like LAV CUVID can work out how to add it now.
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glynor

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 05:22:31 pm »

This may sound Odd coming from me, but I (and of course it is JR that counts) kind of see RO as a project to bring an easy/universal working Solution to the masses (and I think it has done a great job of this).  I'm swayed by arguments that we may need a HW Assisted/Accelerated option to increase the usability over a wider range of HW Specs, but where do you draw the line for what is in RO and what is part of RO With Additional Filters?....

Actually, I do completely agree.  I would draw the line right there.  I think wanting to use a filter that supports hardware acceleration is going to be a common enough request from the very users that Red October is designed to help (the less sophisticated users).

The Nvidia-only aspect of LAV CUVID is a big problem, though.  I think, honestly, supporting DXVA would be a much better choice, especially now that it looks like it is going to be built into FFDSHOW.  Intel and AMD chipsets are SO common now, and the Intel 2000/3000 parts in Sandy Bridge do now actually do a halfway-decent job of decode acceleration from what I've seen in the reviews.  And, AMD has some very nice cards at the low-midrange, which are perfect for Home Theater use.  Either way, they are going to be quite popular and common, so something less limited would be better, even if it isn't perfect in every way.

It comes down to this: I think hardware accelerated AVC decode is something that rises to the level of deserving a simple, one-click way to enable it.

ASIDE:  I know Nvidia puts a lot more money behind CUDA, but really, the two platforms are pretty comparable in terms of GP-GPU capabilities (Fermi derivatives do have some advantages for high-end computational clusters, mostly because of the Floating Point hardware, but AMD is making some very interesting moves in this direction in their next gen).  It is really a personal preference thing, but I've always slightly preferred AMD/ATI graphics hardware, mostly for their multimedia handling and features.  Though I own both and still pick the best product for the task each time I buy one (and for mobile GPUs, I'd recommend Nvidia if you're going with an Intel CPU).
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Osho

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2011, 05:41:28 pm »

Actually, I do completely agree.  I would draw the line right there.  I think wanting to use a filter that supports hardware acceleration is going to be a common enough request from the very users that Red October is designed to help (the less sophisticated users).

Exactly - I couldn't have said this better myself.

Osho
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Matt

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2011, 08:41:28 pm »

Simplified hardware acceleration is on the maybe / someday list for Red October.

Personally I want to see a few weeks of very few video problems on Interact before opening a new front.
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glynor

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2011, 11:17:26 pm »

Personally I want to see a few weeks of very few video problems on Interact before opening a new front.

 ;D

Fair enough.
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jmone

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 06:35:21 am »

Simplified hardware acceleration is on the maybe / someday list for Red October.

Personally I want to see a few weeks of very few video problems on Interact before opening a new front.

This was a huge change in MC that impacts lots of users and there were/are lots of post about it.  I'm sure you have a feeling about the impact on your user base but it is kind of hard to tell if it is working for the vast majority (would be a function of the number of users and the propensity of the user base to post an issue)
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jmone

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 07:47:22 am »

When I set JTV to use LAV CUVID it works for TV Recordings but not for Live TV with TS ON (ffdshow gets used instead).
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Matt

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 09:47:41 am »

When I set JTV to use LAV CUVID it works for TV Recordings but not for Live TV with TS ON (ffdshow gets used instead).

Just to be sure, could you test again after a restart of Media Center?

If it still doesn't work, could you email me a log?

The playback graph code should be the same in either case.

Thanks.
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glynor

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2011, 10:15:04 am »

but it is kind of hard to tell if it is working for the vast majority

It seems to me that the majority of the video "massive problem" reports have dried up.  Most of the stuff we're seeing now on the public board are either: (1) people who are manually configuring filters and having trouble, (2) oddball file type problems, or (3) problems configuring audio and bitstreaming support.

Some of #1 is because people tried RO early before it was ready and are too afraid/silly/jaded to try it again.
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glynor

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2011, 10:16:38 am »

I honestly can't believe they got it working this well this quickly.  I'd have guessed we'd have had at least another month or two of weirdness and plenty of oddball files.
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Osho

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 11:30:02 am »

I tried with Red October HQ with additional filters and LAV CUVID installed and separately installed madVR 0.65. MC16.0.116 worked very well with all of the file types I have tried so far - .mkv (H264), .ts (OTA HDTV recording), .mts and .m2ts AVCHD videos with pretty high bitrates.

CPU usage went from close to 90% to 25%!

Thanks,
Osho
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pauly139

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 04:12:03 pm »

I've installed LAV CUVID but I can't see an option to select it anywhere under 'Source Filter', 'Other Filters' or 'Video Renderer'. I have a NVidia GeForce GT430 which I would have thought could use it.

Anyone have any ideas why I can't see the option to select LAV CUVID?
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BryanC

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2011, 04:51:43 pm »

I've installed LAV CUVID but I can't see an option to select it anywhere under 'Source Filter', 'Other Filters' or 'Video Renderer'. I have a NVidia GeForce GT430 which I would have thought could use it.

Anyone have any ideas why I can't see the option to select LAV CUVID?

Did you install the 0.8 32-bit version of LAV CUVID? If so, it should be under "other filters"
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pauly139

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2011, 04:57:05 pm »

I installed both 32 and 64 bit versions (this is a 64 bit machine).

When some rendering is finished I'll try rebooting the PC and see if it shows up then.
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chew.isaac

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2011, 09:27:21 am »

Hi,

After reading about LAV CUVID here, I try to install it in my machine (both the 64 bit as well as 32 bit) as I am using Nvidia. My machine is an i3 with Nvidia 540M, with Win7 home premium 64 bit installed.

But I keep getting the error with the file LAVCUVID64.ax "Unable to register the DLL/OCX:RegSvr32 failed with exit code 0x3". I have already run the LAV CUVID install program under administrator.

Can anyone help? Thanks.

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Matt

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2011, 09:30:23 am »

If you want to use LAV CUVID with Media Center, select Options > Video > Hardware accelerate video decoding when possible.

It will use LAV CUVID automatically.  There's no need to download, install, or register independent components.
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chew.isaac

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2011, 04:31:36 am »

Awesome! Thanks!

I guess installing CCCP is redundant as well? I had it installed. Guess it might not help at all as Red Oct has the necessary filters all installed.
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jmone

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2011, 04:45:44 am »

Yup there is absolutely no reason to install any filter or filter pack any more if you are just using RedOctober Std or HQ.  You would only install filters if you wanted to play with other filters in which case the "Additional Filter" option is for you.
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chew.isaac

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2011, 09:27:57 am »

Hi guys,

My machine is an i3-2330M (2.2 GHz) with Nvidia 540M with 2GB DDR3 Memory.

I use RO HQ and set "Hardware Accelerate Video decoding when possible". This should get MADvr and LAV CUVID to work automatically.

I played a MKV file to see how Madvr works. Unfortunately the video stutters (I believe frames are being dropped) and then MC16 crash within 1 min. In the graph info I am not sure if LAV CUVID is being used. I am so sad that I could not use Madvr :( Can anyone help provide some clues? It could be that my CPU is not fast enough and my graphics card is just too poor.

Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
        CLSID: {A4002F8E-510F-442C-8AD3-F9C7B23FB394}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_IEEE_FLOAT, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'JRiver Subtitle Renderer'
        CLSID: {F74E834C-9C98-43ED-89B1-19A9DF82E774}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Subtitle' of filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
            Major type Unknown GUID Name: {E487EB08-6B26-4BE9-9DD3-993434D313FD}  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {F7239E31-9599-4E43-8DD5-FBAF75CF37F1}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {F7239E31-9599-4E43-8DD5-FBAF75CF37F1}

    Filter 'madVR'
        CLSID: {E1A8B82A-32CE-4B0D-BE0D-AA68C772E423}
        Host: C:\Users\Isaac Media Center\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\madvr\madvr.ax
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2

    Filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
        CLSID: {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
        Host: C:\Users\Isaac Media Center\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'madVR'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'In Text'

    Filter 'LAV Audio Decoder (auto-configured)'
        CLSID: {E8E73B6B-4CB3-44A4-BE99-4F7BCB96E491}
        Host: C:\Users\Isaac Media Center\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\lav\LAVAudio.ax
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Audio Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_IEEE_FLOAT, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

    Filter 'JRiver Audio Monitor'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Audio' of filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
        CLSID: {B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}
        Host: C:\Users\Isaac Media Center\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\lav\LAVSplitter.ax
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Audio'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Audio Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Subtitle'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'JRiver Subtitle Renderer'
            Major type Unknown GUID Name: {E487EB08-6B26-4BE9-9DD3-993434D313FD}  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {F7239E31-9599-4E43-8DD5-FBAF75CF37F1}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {F7239E31-9599-4E43-8DD5-FBAF75CF37F1}
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JimH

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2011, 09:40:35 am »

Try turning off hardware acceleration.
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chew.isaac

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2011, 10:36:06 am »

Hi Jim,

I did that. Still stutters. Anything else I can try? If I go Red Oct Std then ok but that means no MadVR for me.....

Could it be that LAV CUVID is not working right. And if it does, it will help?

Isaac.
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Hendrik

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2011, 10:43:41 am »

The 540M suggests to me that your system is a Laptop, probably with a NVIDIA Optimus system for switchable graphics?

Its quite possible that LAV CUVID won't work properly with that setup. If you can, you can try forcing MC16 to use the NVIDIA graphics, if there is such an option.
I've had reports before of such issues with Optimus enabled Laptops.

I have not managed to get my hands on such a device to actually test and see if it can be tricked into working more easily.
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chew.isaac

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2011, 11:05:09 am »

Hi Nev. Yes, it is a laptop with Optimus. I have set MC16 to use the Nvidia GPU. When MC16 is playing I checked and verify via the nvidia icon that the GPU is being used. But I am not sure if LAV CUVID is being used by my MC16 at that instant. Let me know if there is anything I can try and I will do it. Thanks.
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Hendrik

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2011, 12:47:51 pm »

I dont know if MC16 actually trys to check if you have a NVIDIA card before it enables LAV CUVID, if it does, maybe that check fails.

You can try installing LAV CUVID manually (download on http://1f0.de), and using Red Octorber with additional filters, and selecting LAV CUVID there.
Also make sure your NVIDIA drivers are up to date, but considering the 540M is a relatively new model, the drivers probably arent that old to begin with. Updating to the latest stable from nvidia.com directly is still recommended, however.

Edit:
I just read that you tried to install it before and it failed. That would indeed point to missing driver components. Get the latest from nvidia.com and install that.
280.26 seems to be the latest available for the 540M.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/notebook-win7-winvista-64bit-280.26-whql-driver.html

After the driver update, it might "just work" with MC16 Red October without any further fiddling. :)
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chew.isaac

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2011, 06:40:54 pm »

Hi Nev, I followed your link and updated the Nvidia drivers. It works!!!!

It currently solved all my problems:
1) Playing MKV files. MadVR and LAV CUVID are used
2) Orignally mp4 playback stutters and I need to use windows media player. Now I verify MadVR and LAV CUVID are used.

Thanks so much!!

Red Oct doing everything automatic (working with Madvr and using LAV CUVID) is fantastic for users like me. It just works.

fyi: I did try to update the graphics drivers once I bought my laptop but the one I choose could not be installed on my Acer and they directed me to Acer website which does not have new drivers. So Nev's link was lifesaver. Save me many hours of frustration.
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Hendrik

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Re: Red October HQ and LAV CUVID - do they "just work" together?
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2011, 01:07:28 am »

Glad it works for you now!
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~ nevcairiel
~ Author of LAV Filters
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