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[jmone]

Following on from this thread - http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=66370.0

I'm trying to find a better way of organising and playing Music Videos as we can with CD's - eg both has a whole (easy) and by individual tracks (not really supported)....see the pic.

What I'd suggest is:
1) The ability to import the same Video multiple times into the library & then
2) Use the "Playback Range" be able to specify each track

Like with a CD, this would then allow a user to pick both an "Album" and/or each track on the "Album" and should support files (eg MKV), Blu, and DVD.

Current Issues:
1) No way to import the same file multiple time and tag each separately (I did try using modified MPL but it tends to stuff up the single sidecar file)
2) Playback Range works OK but if you press >>| you can actually skip forward in the file past the end of the playback range instead of moving to the next track.  This example is using multiple MPLS files on a Blu-rip.  If you leave the playback alone it will move from one file to another, but if you use >>| or |<< it navigates using the Chapters exposed by the splitter hence you can move out of the playback range.

Anyway - I'm sure there are other ways of doing this but the basic idea would be to allow a user to have a single rip then have multiple entries which can have different tags (this would also be good if you wanted to have multiple entries in the DB for different Playback Info such as different streams as well).

Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

Here is a pic of the issue of using a Playback Range with Blu's - The Playback Range is for the 1st Track (The Long Run) but as you can see you can still see, select / navigate outside this playback range.

[jmone]

The same concept would also work in allowing a single disc rip that contains multiple TV Episodes which you could then tag a separate entries in MC.

[Lasse_Lus]

Nathan, i'm sorry but you can't add duplicates, the filename is the primary key in the database, and you can't force a primary key..

what you should do is to add another database,..and if you don't want that i suggest you add custom fields and "swap" or copy the data depending on how you want to play your files..or of course add another copy of you file or follow Marko's advice in the other thread..

[jmone]

So, what I'd like to do is just like a CD but for a Video in that I want to tag each "track" from a single rip.  I'm not sure what you mean by using custom fields to swap or copy the data to expose these as individual items...could you or Marko expand on how this would work?

[Lasse_Lus]

if i understand you correctly, you would like to be able to play "the same" file in different ways, where the data in the field [playback range] decides how you are gonna "output" the file/video.

so my suggestion is that you add custom fields like [playback range1] [playback range2] and fill them with your values and then overwrite the value in [playback range] with [..1] or [..2] (when you want another "output")

...this is easy done within the standard view, but if you do this "swapping" all day long it can be quite tedious, so then you need to automize (there are alternatives for this like autotagger and sqlmytunes, so you could do this "silent")..BUT i see now that you have more "problems", your field is locked..so you need to ask to get it unlocked first.

i give you an example but for textfiles as i use a lot within MC..if i don't want to open my textfile with notepad i change [file type] to something that i have specified under options\filtype\custom playback method..and then i can open it with another program like notepad++.. even if i could import the same file twice and use different playback method for each record..i would have a real mess in my database..but as i wrote this is not going to happen since you can't have duplicates in a database on the "prim key"

still (and maybe only) the best option is to use 2 databases so you could specify your values independent and depending on what you want..Marko's suggestion is to fool MC and add the same file again ("duplicate") but with different filename but that can marko explain much better 

or..maybe change the request to have an option like "we" have for file types..

[jmone]

Did some thinking and playing with how MC handles single Audio files with multiple tracks (eg say a WAV with a CUE file), and have worked out the first part.  You can have one file referenced multiple times just fine (see pic) and tag them up independently!    While MC support the concept for Audio just fine, the "extension/use" of this concept comes with some issues and limitations I'm still working though including:
1) Posting a simple workflow for how to do this
2) Working around the single Sidecar file issue


...more later

[jmone]

OK - here is how to do it on Blu-rays (I've not tried DVD or Files but the same approach may also work).  It has to be said that this really is not ideal and it would be great for Matt et al to add a simpler way of doing it through the front end:

1. Rip / Import, Tag, and Coverart of your Blu-ray as normal
2. Create a MPL file (see below) anywhere OUTSIDE of the folders where the Blu-ray Rip was created (if it is under the Blu ray structure it will not work).  Edit the XML in Notepad, save and then import into MC16 and you will now have all the tacks listed separately!

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes" ?>
<MPL Version="2.0" Title="JRSidecar">
<Item>
<Field Name="Filename">\\MAIN\Media4\Video\Eagles - Farewell Tour\BDMV\index.bdmv;1</Field>
<Field Name="Track #">1</Field>
<Field Name="Name">The Long Run</Field>
<Field Name="Playback Range">0:01-6:22.884</Field>
<Field Name="Genre">Music Videos</Field>
<Field Name="Actors">Don Henley; Joe Walsh; Timothy B. Schmit; Glenn Frey</Field>
<Field Name="FPS">29.9699999999999988</Field>
<Field Name="Artist">Eagles</Field>
<Field Name="Keywords">Concert</Field>
<Field Name="Album">Farewell Tour</Field>
<Field Name="Date">38517</Field>
<Field Name="Media Type">Video</Field>
<Field Name="Media Sub Type">Music Video</Field>
<Field Name="Use Bookmarking">No</Field>
</Item>
<Item>
<Field Name="Filename">\\MAIN\Media4\Video\Eagles - Farewell Tour\BDMV\index.bdmv;2</Field>
<Field Name="Track #">2</Field>
<Field Name="Name">New Kid in Town</Field>
<Field Name="Playback Range">6:22.884-11:26.186</Field>
<Field Name="Genre">Music Videos</Field>
<Field Name="Actors">Don Henley; Joe Walsh; Timothy B. Schmit; Glenn Frey</Field>
<Field Name="FPS">29.9699999999999988</Field>
<Field Name="Artist">Eagles</Field>
<Field Name="Keywords">Concert</Field>
<Field Name="Album">Farewell Tour</Field>
<Field Name="Date">38517</Field>
<Field Name="Media Type">Video</Field>
<Field Name="Media Sub Type">Music Video</Field>
<Field Name="Use Bookmarking">No</Field>
</Item>

*** etc etc etc ***

</MPL>

Couple of tips and comments:
- Much of the content for the MPL file is already in the "index_bdmv_JRSidecar.xml" file located in the BDMV folder of the rip.  Just open it up in Notepad, copy the lot across into say a new TXT file called "Tracks.MPL" and delete / add fields as needed.  
- Once you get a "template", just copy and paste each "<Item>" segments and change the bits in red over
- There seems to be a "bug" with the "Playback Range", you need to start from more than 0:00, eg use 0:01 or else the playback continues past the end of the playback range.
- You can even add individual coverart to each track if you want and pending on your coverart settings they will be saved individually (but for some reason "Use Screen Grab for Thumbnail" was not working for me)
- You can change any of the tags you want in MC16 but don't use "Update Library (from tags)" or "Update Tags (from library)" as there is still only one sidecar file so you will overwrite the meta data.
- Navigation works fine, infact the chapter option does not appear at all in the right click menu (I tend to think this is due to the filename extention being bdmv not bluray).

[Matt]

The MPL import is a clever approach.  Basically you're emulating how the program works internally for audio CUE files.

You're in an area we haven't really thought about for video, so I don't have much to add.  I'm not sure how a normal user would deal with this, or how useful it would be?

Would muxing to MKV with chapter marks be a more standard approach?

[Lasse_Lus]

The MPL import is a clever approach.  Basically you're emulating how the program works internally for audio

yes it was a really neat find, thank you very much nathan for the info   i have never had any .cue's or "chapters" but now i know how it works..this can be very handy

[rick.ca]

You're in an area we haven't really thought about for video, so I don't have much to add.  I'm not sure how a normal user would deal with this, or how useful it would be?

For some time, I've been curious about how I might convert a concert video into something resembling an album. This has more to do with the data than playback. I thought it would be nice to be able to relate live video recordings to the audio version of the same track, or simply be able to show all the works of an artist—by track.

When I first read this, I wondered, "Why not just rip or re-encode the chapters to separate files?" So I finally figured out how to do that, re-encoded an existing DVD rip to separate files, and tagged it all as if it were an album. That was rather tedious, but—from a data point-of-view—it worked fine. Playback also works fine, for playing any one track. But what I failed to consider was I would still want to play them together as an album (or at least a number of them together in concert sequence). In that case, the transition from one track to the next is rather jarring. Also, when playing the video, none of the data is available anyway—so it's still not possible to, for example, look ahead an decide what to play next.

Although I haven't tried it yet, I imagine this approach solves most of those issues. The whole thing can be tagged as an album, the tracks played separately, in any order, and the DVD rip is still available to be played "normally." The process sounds rather tedious, so it would be nice if there were a function to create and import such files automatically. It would also be very cool if a jump list (based on such files) were available from within the OSD. Although text only, that would be similar in function to a chapter/track listing one would normally find in the DVD menu of a concert video.

While I'm thinking about concert videos, I'm sure the idea is equally applicable and potentially useful to TV Series and other types of discs.

[rjm]

And perhaps a way to create tagged clips in home videos.

I currently capture, cut, rip, import, and tag home video. It takes me 10 hours for every 1 hour of video.

[jmone]

I too used to take a Music DVD, and rip it into individual files by Music Track, import and tag it up so it was like a CD allowing you to mix and match tracks, build playlists etc etc.  As Rick found, the downside of this approach as you don't get a seemless playback environment if you play the Album + it takes forever!

This "MPL" approach is much better but you of course need to add the "missing metadata" for each track (eg Song Name, Track # and Playback Range as a minimum).  On the plus size it is easy to rip (no need to muck around with the source file type + it should work with any FileType though I have not tested a DVD), and you can then choose between playing individual tracks or the seemless whole album for the one source file.

Would muxing to MKV with chapter marks be a more standard approach

An option to mux to MKV is a good option but it still does not provide the "CUE" style approach though the "MPL" import method should work on MKV just fine.  The AIM is to allow to manage songs from an album just like we can with a CD.

While I'm thinking about concert videos, I'm sure the idea is equally applicable and potentially useful to TV Series and other types of discs.

Yup should work for anything that has "segments" you want to expose as individual tracks and this is especially useful when during authoring they are all in one physical file (to prevent having to split them up) or a made up of multiple seemless branching files (to prevent having to combine them).

Options?: The MPL approach is not too hard but some suggestions to make it all work better would be a front end option where you could import the original file (either Audio or Video), right click --> Make CUE (or other name) File --> and you specify the # of Tracks to "create in the database".  MC would then add the required number of tracks by copying all the meta data but with names of say "Track 1, Track 2 etc etc" (of course this may be able to have a look-up like with Movies).  The user could then correctly name each track and either edit the Playback Range manually or give them a "Mark In / Mark Out" option so that during playback a user could seek to where they want each point to be marked and have it populate the range.

[jmone]

The other approach I had considered is "right click --> Make CUE (or other name) File --> One for Each Chapter":
1) Is easy, gets the correct Start/End times for the playback range and will work on most Music Videos Disks as they tend to have one chapter per song
2) I have come across one Music Video Blu where the default playlist used did not have any chapter marks at all (but another MPLS did).
3) No good for TV Eps as many discs may have say 3 Eps with 12 Chapters - you want 3 Eps entries not 12

[rick.ca]

The user could then correctly name each track and either edit the Playback Range manually or give them a "Mark In / Mark Out" option so that during playback a user could seek to where they want each point to be marked and have it populate the range.

I assume what you mean is the function that would do this would arbitrarily create a "track" entry for each chapter—that properly recorded the playback range—but this somehow needs to be changeable by the user. For example, in the concert video I converted, there were several "tracks" where there was a rather long introduction. These introductions, not surprisingly, were put in separate chapters. But until I combined those into one track, it was impossible to properly match the resulting tracks to a list of meta data (or at least track names). I suppose a more sensible approach would be to leave the chapters as they are, and just name them accordingly (e.g., "Track name [Introduction]" and "Track name") and live with the fact the track numbers won't correspond to an external track listing.

Not having tried it, I'm not sure about this, but...Aside from the above consideration, it seems all this function has to do is create the pseudo files and record the correct playback ranges for each of them. From that point, all tagging would be done from within MC in the usual manner. In other words, it wouldn't really matter if any other meta data were recorded. It would be helpful, however, if [Album] were set to the [Name] of the original file and track numbers assigned—even if these had to be changed by the user. Maybe other fields could be set to the same values as the source, if applicable. Does this make sense?

It occurs to me the same function should be available for MKV's with chapter data recorded in them.

3) No good for TV Eps as many discs may have say 3 Eps with 12 Chapters - you want 3 Eps entries not 12

We may as well dream big...Add a "right click --> Combine selected Chapter files (or some other name) into one."

[jmone]

FYI - here is a pic of the completed Album and you can see all I did was enter the chapter timings from the full file as the playback range.  For the very final track I had to manually determin the "end" I wanted so as to cut of the credits.

[rick.ca]

FYI - here is a pic of the completed Album and you can see all I did was enter the chapter timings from the full file as the playback range.  For the very final track I had to manually determin the "end" I wanted so as to cut of the credits.

Where do you get the chapter timings from? I don't see that information recorded anywhere among my DVD rip files. I could get it from something like Handbrake, but that would be even more tedious to enter.

[jmone]

Ahh - if you do a right click "Jump To" you get the list of chapters and the time point but only when LAVSplitter is used, so you are out of luck with DVD's.  That said - here is a little tool that can read DVD (as well as Blu, HD-DVD) discs and rips and then puts it into a nice text list with little fuss

http://jvance.com/pages/ChapterGrabber.xhtml

[jmone]

Just tested on my 1 DVD Rip and there seems to be a bug in that Playback Range does not work (yet bookmarking does so it "should" work) on my system.

[Matt]

Just tested on my 1 DVD Rip and there seems to be a bug in that Playback Range does not work (yet bookmarking does so it "should" work) on my system.

Playback range won't work with DVD.  The bookmark system is totally different, due to menu navigation, varied titles, etc.

We might someday make it possible to play a DVD as a simple movie that plays only the main title (like Blu-ray does now), at which point simple bookmarks would work.  The reason for the option is that it would skip all the forced preview junk and work with madVR.  But I'm not sure the complexity of two playback styles for DVD makes it worth it.

[jmone]

Ok so the current use of "simple playback range" will not work as is, but i guess it would still be possible to implement such a concept except MC would have to use the existing Bookmark Logic to mark the start and end points of the playback range instread.

[jmone]

Actually there is a much simpler way that would work for media with chapters marks.  Have Playback Range also support Chapter Marks instead of just times, eg: not just in the format of "00:04:21.901-00:07:11.869" but also "Chapter 2-Chapter 3" as this may work better with the player logic for DVD?

[rick.ca]

Ok so the current use of "simple playback range" will not work as is, but i guess it would still be possible to implement such a concept except MC would have to use the existing Bookmark Logic to mark the start and end points of the playback range instread.

I figured it wouldn't work, but I decided to see what might be done with bookmarks anyway. I had no problem creating pseudo files, as previously discussed. I then played each one, paused, jumped to the desired chapter, then stopped to set the bookmark. Those files would then start at the bookmark. The real problem, of course, is that the bookmark will be overwritten with another—marking the position at which that play is stopped. I suppose that could be solved with an option for a "permanent" bookmark (i.e., another [Bookmark Flag] option). But there's another issue. There's a significant delay in finding any bookmark position. That delay is okay for occasionally finding where one left off in viewing a video. But it's too slow to mimic the behaviour of a separate file being started.

[jmone]

The only "answer" for DVD at present is to reference the actual VOB file(s) and the use the playback range as this will work as it steps around the whole DVD menu.

[Daydream]

A few thoughts:
- this playback range and the way you guys discuss to use it tends to become another layer of abstraction, so much more removed from the file system; not that it's inherently bad but I for one don't like it because between other things its useful footprint is too narrow

- two of the examples mentioned irk me to no end. In my world a concert is always a movie and there is no point to break it into pieces. It's a performance, a rendition of various songs, played at a certain time, in a certain venue and it ads up to an experience as a whole. Second there may be many concerts by the same artist/band so what are you gonna do with a meta-link (i.e. CD music track to video-slice of the concert track). Create an entire spiderweb of internal links? Maybe some would like that, I do not. What is this, the death of the concept album as we know it? (tongue in chick style): what's it gonna be next, atomizing a track to riff samples? Five line staff support in order to isolate every note?  

- second example, the TV series; they should always be ripped and separated into episodes. Whoever rips the discs and then wants meta-links inside the disc (playback range or not) misses the point. There is metadata per episode. The aired/production order of the episodes may or may not be what's on the DVD discs. And I want to have easy access to episodes as self contained elements to do whatever I want to do with them, including writing a virtual EPG in python (if it ever gets implemented) that will make virtual channels with random stuff I own. Without being at the mercy of a playback range feature, able-but-not-quite to pick stuff up from another level of encapsulation - a DVD/Blu-ray discs. Meh.

- I will always throw my support towards mkv, whenever possible. It is related to the filesystem (which I consider for my media collection "the reality") and it allows for multiple, "virtual" features. MC will just need to parse a structure that is well documented already (and is saved as a header, you don't have to re-rewrite a file just because you updated a jump-point). You want chapters? Done. Separate playback? Done. Seamless playback? Done. Separate and seamless playback? Done (with editions). Jump points to whatever mkv you want? Done. Provide help for much more than just videos, concerts and series? You bet! What's it not to like feature-wise? Boo-hoo, 'cause it's too complex. I bet that half the stuff that mkv can do are not even known to people that want to argue about it.

[rick.ca]

There's not much point in discussing something further that we've already established is not feasible. But I disagree with the suggestion the original idea was flawed in any way. Just because ripping episodes to separate MKV makes sense doesn't mean those who have already ripped full discs (and may wish to continue the practise) should be denied a solution. And ripping individual audio tracks hasn't resulted in the death of the album, so I don't understand why handling a concert the same way is any threat to concerts. Why can't I enjoy a concert exactly the same way you do, have a complete record of all the "tracks" in my database, and (gasp!) even watch a selection of them—when I don't have the time to watch a two hour concert?

I'm certainly in favour of better support for MKV, including features not well known or commonly used. But that would include exactly what we were discussing here—the ability to represent, tag and play pseudo files representing the chapters in an MKV file. Then I could rip my concert DVD's to MKV, and get the result I was after that way.

[jmone]

Wow - I'm going to agree with Rick again!  I think abstraction is a very good thing and the basis of what MC can do with meta data, else we would all just be stuck with using a basic file structure.  I also think the concept being discussed in this thread is also sound but it just does not work with DVD based structures (it is fine however with Blu-ray and Files) and if JR wanted to they could implement the concept in a much more user friendly way but the basic are in place and work just fine as my screen shots show.

That said, while many argue of the decline of Music being presented in a Album that should be listened to from start to finish as a whole (such as say Pink Floyd's "The Wall") it is just a changing consumer preference.  There are many Albums I have which are not a while "story" but a collection of tracks some of which I prefer over others.  I also have Various Artists on Compilation albums that are just a collection of tracks so a mix and match on these makes even more sense.

As for TV Series, I find that most of my discs have a single file for each EPS so I just copy these over and tag them up so I don't have a need for such a concept with this media.  This concept is really about how to manage subsets when the original media format has multiple items in one container where you may want to expose each item individually.

There is no right or wrong way to rip and manage our collections, just personal preference if how one wants to do this and the concept discussed here is just another (potential) way of doing it.

[Daydream]

There's not much point in discussing something further that we've already established is not feasible.

Just curious was this thread detached from the beta board? Either I missed or it was copied here later on, and that makes discussing further options kind of difficult.

My points was that you are aiming for a new level of abstraction, on top of what exists. The MKV option is already here.

On the other hand, once in every blue moon I remember to be ruthless with the options at hand. You two are trying to cater to everybody by adding complexity. I'd say those who ripped DVD or the likes the way they did should realize their lack of vision and stop. Why do I need to wait for more time to be spent on a new invention to account for their bad decisions? Do you want me to explain how bad the DVD structure is? Try to do a conditional jump between two VTS inside the DVD.

And ripping individual audio tracks hasn't resulted in the death of the album,

I'm not so sure about that.

Why can't I enjoy a concert exactly the same way you do, have a complete record of all the "tracks" in my database, and (gasp!) even watch a selection of them—when I don't have the time to watch a two hour concert?

Of course you can do anything you like, I was just expression a different point of view that you're going at it the wrong way both while ripping (chapter points can be preserved and/or the file can be cut at chapter points if you so desire) and playing -> embedded metadata in file is one thing. Putting an extra abstraction layer on top of DVDs - or dealing with their structure as is - is a waste of time in my opinion.

I'm certainly in favour of better support for MKV, including features not well known or commonly used. But that would include exactly what we were discussing here—the ability to represent, tag and play pseudo files representing the chapters in an MKV file. Then I could rip my concert DVD's to MKV, and get the result I was after that way.

Agreed, but there is a quality difference; with MKV everything is embedded in files and can open ways for much more than we're talking.

I think abstraction is a very good thing and the basis of what MC can do with meta data, else we would all just be stuck with using a basic file structure. 

The reality is we are at the mercy of the file system (wasn't that file change timestamp just discussed in another thread?). Until the industry comes up with OSes that have their filesystem as databases, and everything can be searched and linked by metadata, we still have the file system.

I also think the concept being discussed in this thread is also sound but it just does not work with DVD based structures (it is fine however with Blu-ray and Files)

No, it doesn't . Both DVDs and Blu-rays (just that DVD much more so) have their own structure that you can't guess it 100% by looking at the files. Say, for TV series the order of the files it's not the order of the episodes and so on. It's messy.

That said, while many argue of the decline of Music being presented in a Album that should be listened to from start to finish as a whole (such as say Pink Floyd's "The Wall") it is just a changing consumer preference.  There are many Albums I have which are not a while "story" but a collection of tracks some of which I prefer over others.  I also have Various Artists on Compilation albums that are just a collection of tracks so a mix and match on these makes even more sense.

Look, I don't get it. Between you and rick you wanna dismantle concerts to make them look like compilations albums, but at the same time wanna hold on to bad ways of ripping anything - like whole DVDs (with additional abstraction layers).

There is no right or wrong way to rip and manage our collections

Ah, see, probably that's where the divergent views begin . I believe that given the tools at hand, there is a best way and a worst way.

Bottom line I just wanted to express a different point of view. But this thing trying to reply to your combined thought process it's starting looking like a giant collection of stripes.

[jmone]

The reality is we are at the mercy of the file system (wasn't that file change timestamp just discussed in another thread?). Until the industry comes up with OSes that have their filesystem as databases, and everything can be searched and linked by metadata, we still have the file system.

? In MC, everything is already metadata based (including searching and linking).  From a users POV, it really does not matter if the object is stored as a blob or referenced as a field in the DB.

No, it doesn't . Both DVDs and Blu-rays (just that DVD much more so) have their own structure that you can't guess it 100% by looking at the files. Say, for TV series the order of the files it's not the order of the episodes and so on. It's messy.

The data is all there else how could any player ever work out how to "play" it, or how to rip it to MKV?  This is a good example of how the structure is completely abstracted from the user.  The issue is more around if JR (or other devs) wants to add the logic to a parser so it can be extracted and used in MC is another question entirely.  

Look, I don't get it. Between you and rick you wanna dismantle concerts to make them look like compilations albums, but at the same time wanna hold on to bad ways of ripping anything - like whole DVDs (with additional abstraction layers).

Ah, see, probably that's where the divergent views begin . I believe that given the tools at hand, there is a best way and a worst way.

Bottom line I just wanted to express a different point of view. But this thing trying to reply to your combined thought process it's starting looking like a giant collection of stripes.

I agree, and that's the thing... there is nothing to get, it is just another POV and since you already have your one best way I'm not surprised the rest of us look nuts on this topic (well Rick is nuts but I'm fine!).  This thread is simply looking to solve an issue that you don't have (but I do).

[rick.ca]

Look, I don't get it.

It's a media manager. As good as you think the MKV specification is, the idea MC should require it be used for everything is not practical. If it's really that good, then eventually everyone will use it exclusively, MC will fully support it, and the issue will be resolved in a manner consistent with your perfect world. But JRiver's job is to provide an application that serves as well as possible today, not to change the world.

The reality is we are at the mercy of the file system...

But there's no reason why we should be. It's bad enough MC is so dependent on the arbitrary premise it's a database of files. Talk about abstraction—that's exactly what a file system is! It happens to be a very good one, convincing most there's actually something real and complete about a set of files. This in the face of a world where media can be anywhere, arranged in many ways and packaged in many forms. If MC doesn't at least loosen this arbitrary premise, it's going to become increasingly irrelevant. An obvious way of doing that without radically changing its very structure is to support the use of pseudo files. With that relatively simple change, we could create records representing media for which there is no "file," and, as discussed here, do the same for parts of files like chapters. You can call it another "abstraction layer" if you like, but the distinction is meaningless. I would call it the undoing of a completely unnecessary and confining abstraction.

Between you and rick you wanna dismantle concerts to make them look like compilations albums...

I explained my reasons for wanting to tag the contents of concert album, and they have nothing to do with turning them into compilation albums. I acknowledged ripping to MKV with chapter markings would be a better file format, but I would still want the ability to tag those chapters separately.

[mojave]

Is there a way to separate playback ranges with a comma or something without having to create an MPL file? For example, I would like 1:07:30-1:08:10, 1:10:30-1:11:10.

[jmone]

Nothing simple (yet)!  I took one of Matt's comments that he is still pondering how to do Music Videos to hopefully result in the ability for us to Import Chapters....

[jmone]

OK, while we wait for a supported way of doing this - I found another way of duplicating entries in the DB but this time through the MC Interface.

1) Create a bunch of dummy files (in explorer I just did a right click --> New Text Document then copied that two dozen times).  Make sure you do this outside any BD or DVD structure on the HDD.  See Pic #1  You can now delete the dummy files from the HDD.

2) Import these into MC and then use the MC "Rename, Move, & Copy Files" to make the database now point all the entries to the one file you want.  Make sure you use the "Update database to point to new location", and adjust the values in the "Filename" & "Find & Replace" rules to get the new filename what you want.  See Pic #2

3) Highlight all the new entries in MC and do a Right Click --> Update Library from Tags.  You will now have all entries exactly the same as the original one.  You can not start to tag them individually (eg I did a Fill Track Number from List Order, changed the Name to the Song Name, and added playback ranges.)  See Pic #3

**EDIT - Never do either an "Update Tags from Library" or "Update Library from Tags" on these tracks as you will reset them all to one set of meta data!
**EDIT2 - if you are using the Playback Range to get tracks, another coupld of hints:
1) Make sure Use Bookmarking is set to "No" for these tracks so they always play from the strat
2) If you select these tracks then do a Rebuild Thumbnail you will then get a different thumbnail for each track based on the start of the playback range