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Author Topic: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)  (Read 75266 times)

Matt

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WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« on: February 20, 2012, 05:03:52 pm »

Tonight's build allows playing the audio that's going to the default Windows sound card through the JRiver engine.  It does this using WASAPI Loopback.

This is a poor man's virtual sound card.  It can't do latency compensation, so if you use processing that adds latency, lip-sync will not be perfect.

To use this feature, you need to set the default Windows playback device to something other than the device Media Center is using.  Then, start playback in Media Center using:
File > Open URL... > live://loopback  Using a small buffer size in Options > Audio > Output mode settings... is recommended.

Sounds that go to the default Windows device will also go through Media Center.

As an example of a real-world use for this, I have a Desk and Theater zone at home.  The Desk zone is where sounds from web browser, Netflix, and games go.  When playing in the theater, I need those sounds redirected to my Theater zone where Media Center does bi-amping, etc.

I can now start the Theater zone playing live://loopback and then play a game or Netflix on the projector and get nice sound.  Previously, I could switch the default Windows audio device but since Windows doesn't know how to handle the bi-amping of my subwoofer, all the sounds went to the wrong places.

Please keep in mind that this is an experimental project.  There's no guarantee it will remain or be developed farther for v17.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 05:31:07 pm »

This works! I'm going to have to try it with multi-channel stuff at home on my Steinberg UR824. This USB audio device, unlike the firewire one I also have, only works in stereo with Direct Sound sources. I wonder if games will now be routed to all channels.
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mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 05:38:10 pm »

I just streamed "Person of Interest" from CBS and upmixed it using JRSS. Pretty cool!
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Matt

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 06:18:09 pm »

I normally only play NBA2K12 on the treadmill, but I made an exception tonight so I could test this feature.  It worked great.  Durant put up a team record 72.

Fun stuff.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

TheLion

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 12:32:43 am »

Matt,

that's absolutely great!

The problem I have is that only ASIO provides multichannel support for my audio interface - the WDM driver only shows 4 stereo pairs as outputs. So to make use of this feature I would need it to route the system audio to my audio interface outputs via ASIO.
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mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 09:29:58 am »

I tried this at home last night with my HTPC and Steinberg UR824. The sound was always distorted and had dropouts. I tried changing hardware buffers and buffering in JRiver, but couldn't get anything to work. I didn't have any other audio devices so I download Virtual Audio Cable and used it. That is what I am using at work as the default device, but maybe I don't have it configured the same. I would think the loopback intercepts the audio before the device anyway so it shouldn't matter what audio device is used as the default as long as it is different than the one used in JRiver.

As I drove home from work last night I realized this should work for running REW sweeps through JRiver. I just tried it and if using the JAVA driver in REW with output set to Default Device it works! I also tried it with Parametric EQ and Mix Channels and you can route sweeps to any speaker or combination of speakers! If this doesn't really pan out for audio playback, it might be worth implementing just for the ability to work with REW.
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BigMac

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 10:01:14 am »

Great Function!!!

currently, I am playing game with JRiver engine handle sound part.  ;D ;D
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nwboater

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 10:08:39 am »

As I drove home from work last night I realized this should work for running REW sweeps through JRiver. I just tried it and if using the JAVA driver in REW with output set to Default Device it works! I also tried it with Parametric EQ and Mix Channels and you can route sweeps to any speaker or combination of speakers! If this doesn't really pan out for audio playback, it might be worth implementing just for the ability to work with REW.

Great news, I'm going to try it later.

What do you mean by this statement: "using the JAVA driver in REW with output set to Default Device"? Is there something extra that needs to be done with Java?

Thanks again for all your efforts in getting REW to work with MC.

Rod
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Matt

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 10:13:10 am »

The problem I have is that only ASIO provides multichannel support for my audio interface - the WDM driver only shows 4 stereo pairs as outputs. So to make use of this feature I would need it to route the system audio to my audio interface outputs via ASIO.

ASIO multi-channel output is fine in Media Center.

You just need a different device (say a cheap motherboard soundcard) to set as the default device.  Then, you play loopback in Media Center out the ASIO and when Windows sends things to the motherboard soundcard, they go out Media Center.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 10:15:40 am »

What do mean by this statement: "using the JAVA driver in REW with output set to Default Device"? Is there something extra that needs to be done with Java?
The latest version(s) of REW lets you select between a JAVA driver or ASIO driver. Older versions (I think before July of last year) only use the JAVA driver so no selection is required. Only the JAVA driver lets you then select Default Device so that it works with this loopback feature. If you had multiple ASIO devices and set one as the default, I guess the ASIO output should also work.
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mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 10:26:24 am »

ASIO multi-channel output is fine in Media Center.

You just need a different device (say a cheap motherboard soundcard) to set as the default device.  Then, you play loopback in Media Center out the ASIO and when Windows sends things to the motherboard soundcard, they go out Media Center.
I'm in the same situation on my HTPC as TheLion. I think the problem is that when the default device uses Direct Sound, the sent audio from the game, etc. only goes to the first stereo pair. Then when it is looped back to JRiver there are only two channels. Maybe a fake ASIO default driver needs to be made and then the signal can be looped back to JRiver using the  WASAPI Loopback. Actually, that still wouldn't work because it is the sending program (Game, etc.) that is using Direct Show output. Probably the hardware company just needs to make proper drivers. The Steinberg MR816 (Firewire) finally had proper multi-channel windows drivers in the last driver release. It took several years from when the product was released. The recently released UR824 (USB) does not have multi-channel windows drivers.
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Matt

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 10:36:56 am »

I'm in the same situation on my HTPC as TheLion. I think the problem is that when the default device uses Direct Sound, the sent audio from the game, etc. only goes to the first stereo pair.

I would think it would work to configure your default device to be 5.1.  Then the loopback format should be 5.1.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 11:00:51 am »

I would think it would work to configure your default device to be 5.1.  Then the loopback format should be 5.1.
You're right, the default device determines the output channels. I'm going to do some more testing during lunch.

If JRiver is handling the audio, the internal volume control needs to work at all times. When the loopback is live, all volume controls should be bound to JRiver.
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nwboater

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 11:12:19 am »

REW latest V5 per Matt & Mojave's settings is now sending sweeps to all 5.1 speakers. Wonderful!

But....... (Why does there so often have to be one?)  As the sweep is happening I get very loud ticks and pops. This may be related to the faint ticks I got in Theater View when background images change listening to music.(I have that feature turned off so no longer a problem). Reported here:   http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=68361.msg460080#msg460080   But this is so loud that it makes REW unusable through MC.

Others with Asus Soundcards have reported it here  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=70206.0 and here  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=62062.0

Since I wasn't having any luck resolving it I just turned off the changing of background images in Theater View. Looks like now I need to get to the bottom of it because I really want REW to work through MC.

Rod
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mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 01:13:44 pm »

Now that build 17.0.91 is public can we talk about this feature elsewhere (like friends, family, relatives, etc.  ;D), or is it still "beta"?
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Matt

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 01:58:45 pm »

Now that build 17.0.91 is public can we talk about this feature elsewhere (like friends, family, relatives, etc.  ;D), or is it still "beta"?

Experimental means there's no promise that it will work, or that we'll do additional work on it.

It's interesting, but it's too soon to say what we'll do with it.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2012, 03:57:46 pm »

Matt

"It's interesting, but it's too soon to say what we'll do with it..."

...Please, please keep it going.

There is a growing thread at computeraidiophile.com about PC based digital room correction outputting to high-end multi-ch DACs and the capability of MC to access other PC streams, e.g. MOG, etc and external hardware sources, e.g. Tivo, etc running through your advanced DRC engine is key.  

The implication of this feature is that stereo or multi-ch room correction down to the driver level, can be possible without adding hardware in the signal path and without additional a/d d/a conversion after the DAC.


Please don't give up on this.

Here is the thread:  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Room-correction-Stereo-Surround

Thanks for your amazing product!!
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mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2012, 04:45:00 pm »

I've been using the loopback successfully with games and Room Equalization Wizard. It works great with my 8 channel USB DAC that only allows for stereo input when playing games. I installed the motherboard audio drivers and use that as the default audio device set to 7.1. It took a little digging to figure out how to turn the motherboard's autosense feature off so I could set the motherboard as 7.1 channels even though nothing was connected to it.

I have a few suggestions:

1.  It would be nice if we could set JRiver to be in loopback mode when not otherwise playing audio. This makes it more automatic at intercepting audio from other sources.

2.  One has to use internal volume control with the loopback since the default audio device isn't playing anything and therefore the master volume control doesn't do anything. I can only use the internal volume with my keyboard with JRiver is the active screen. Since no other device will have audio in loopback mode, JRiver should take exclusive use of the volume controls.

3. Before installing the motherboard audio drivers, my USB DAC was my only audio device. To make it easy to use the loopback, JRiver should provide a fake 7.1 channel audio device driver. Enabling the loopback would automatically set this driver to default and start the loopback process.
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justsomeguy

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2012, 07:54:30 pm »

I've been using the loopback successfully with games and Room Equalization Wizard. It works great with my 8 channel USB DAC that only allows for stereo input when playing games. I installed the motherboard audio drivers and use that as the default audio device set to 7.1. It took a little digging to figure out how to turn the motherboard's autosense feature off so I could set the motherboard as 7.1 channels even though nothing was connected to it.

 Can I ask what onboard sound you have and how you disabled autosense? I wanted to use this loopback a while ago but could get the on board sound enabled without something plugged into all the jacks. I have a realtek HD on board and it has the autosense thing. I found where I could "disable front panel jack detection", but this only enables the front panel which is only 2 channel and obviously not what I want.

Thanks
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justsomeguy

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2012, 09:11:28 pm »

Well I just took a pair of broken earbuds and cut the plug off the cable and just plugged that into the front speaker jack on the back which enabled the back outputs and allowed me to select them as the default audio device and set it to 6 channels.

I have found a different problem though. In DSP studio I set the channels to 5.1, turned on JRSS, enabled room correction, set the crossover for each speaker to 80Hz and moved bass to subwoofer. I then played a youtube video in firefox and noticed that sounds weren't being routed to the sub correctly. Looking at the analyzer shows all frequencies going to the sub instead of just what I routed in Room Correction. Then playing around I noticed that if I select "move center to front L/R" then routing to the sub is correct and only plays frequencies below my crossover point. With these same settings and playing audio from within MC everything works correctly either way.
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mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2012, 08:56:22 am »

I have the Realtek HD Audio on the motherboard on my work PC and home HTPC. Disabling front jack detection in the Realtek HD Audio Manager is what actually enables the analog output from front and rear outputs. I then made sure the device was set as default and the proper number of speakers was selected (5.1 or 7.1).

Quote from: monkey at AVS
. . . there are cases where small buffer sizes are important to reduce latency, like when using Media Center to process and output the audio from a game or web browser (which is a feature that's in development).

Its good to see that this feature is still in development.  ;D
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Matt

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2012, 10:40:21 am »

Its good to see that this feature is still in development.  ;D

This feature has been working well for me.

It just needs to be made easier to use, which we'll do at some point.

I was worried about latency, but at least in my installation, this isn't a problem.  I have a bunch of input lag on my projector (my biggest gripe with the Epson 3010) so the audio is ahead if anything.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2012, 12:11:13 pm »

I have a bunch of input lag on my projector (my biggest gripe with the Epson 3010) so the audio is ahead if anything.
Maybe you should use the "two built-in 10 W stereo speakers for amazing audio."
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justsomeguy

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2012, 02:58:47 pm »

I'm still having problems with this. The problem only happens when JRSS or Clone mixing is enabled and I'm playing back any 2 channel audio. If I playback a movie encoded with 5.1 channels everything is fine, I'm assuming that's because MC is smart enough to not use JRSS on already 5.1 material.
If I already have some 2 channel audio playing back and then start loopback in MC while watching the Analyzer, I can see the subwoofer signal and it is looks correct and is rolling off at what appears to be the correct frequency I have set in room correction. After maybe 4 or 5 seconds the subwoofer signal in the analyzer starts showing full playback of all frequencies far above the crossover point like there is no filtering happening and you can hear an obvious change in sound coming from the sub.
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Matt

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2012, 03:43:55 pm »

You might look at Audio Path to see the input, processing, and output information.  Does it offer any clues?
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

justsomeguy

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2012, 07:48:45 pm »

Audio Path
  Input:     44.1kHz 32bit 6ch

  Changes: Room Correction

  Output:   44.1kHz 24bit 6ch using ASIO

Room Correction is set with all channels crossover at 100Hz, Routing is Move bass to sub.

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retro

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2012, 07:09:32 pm »

If I understand this correctly, I can then use any windows application, like Mediaportal or DvbViewer,
 which are my preferred movie and tv front-ends (sorry), and then let JRiver handle the audio with all of it's superior DSP, eq, convolver etc..?!?

If that is correct, PLEASE PLEASE continue working on this... ;D
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ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2012, 11:32:05 pm »

Am I correct that Windows Media Center can now be looped back through MC for digital x/o, room correction etc?
I have to use Windows Media Center for CATV tuner cards e.g. HomeRun Prime, which I believe only play through WMC, due to DHCP protection.

Can I now route the audio from WMC through MC as described in the thread?
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ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2012, 05:50:39 pm »

Hi

I finally got my Mytek 8x192 DAC :-) and am now trying this for x/o and DRC.

Even with no DSP, I hear sound, but is "flutters", ie skips on/off very fast continuously. I have Realtek HD as my default device on a 64bit win 7 i5.  In MC, Im using ASIO to the mytek via firewire.

Has anyone experienced this?  Im really looking forward to it!!

Thanks
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Matt

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2012, 06:28:40 pm »

Has anyone experienced this?  Im really looking forward to it!!

You need to use a low latency setting for the output in Options > Audio > Output mode settings...

I had good luck with 0.05 seconds and ASIO.  WASAPI - Event Style would be similar.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2012, 06:54:54 pm »

Thanks Mat

Here's what I'm finding:

1) AISO Default MC settings: Flutters, as described above
Audio Path:  In = 44.1/32bit   Out= Same
2) WASPI Default MC settings:  Error message saying "Playback could not be started using 44.1/32bit.  Playback could be started using 44.1/24bit.  Then it plays, but still stutters

4) WASPI Must have DSP change bit rate from 32 to 24.  Then if reduce buffering to 50ms or 25ms plays well.  If 10ms breaks up again
5) ASIO:  Can remove DSP and play as 32bit.  If reduce buffering to .03-.05s plays beautifully!!!  Audio Path:  In =44.1/32bit out same


Problem solved, but may I followup with a few questions?

a)  Is there magic to buffering?  Do I want it as large as possible before fluttering returns?
b) Why "native" bit rate 32bit?  Can/should I set to 64 bit?  Why does 32 bit play is ASIO and not WASPI?  Does this mean I should use ASIO or doesn't matter?

This is a GREAT feature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Matt

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2012, 07:12:56 pm »

There's lots of information on bitdepth here (take note that bitdepth is ignored with ASIO):
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Bitdepth

Buffering is tricky.  For playback, normally latency doesn't matter so a big buffer is good.  But for live playback like this, latency is bad so you want a smaller buffer. 

So to use this feature, find the smallest buffer that never hiccups and use it.
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jacqlan111

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2012, 10:48:56 am »

There's lots of information on bitdepth here (take note that bitdepth is ignored with ASIO):
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Bitdepth

Buffering is tricky.  For playback, normally latency doesn't matter so a big buffer is good.  But for live playback like this, latency is bad so you want a smaller buffer.  

So to use this feature, find the smallest buffer that never hiccups and use it.
This topic brought me some significant answers for my project.
I will receive my new exasound e18 DAC this week.  Like we already discused, I will use 7.1 settings for 8 channels multiamp stereo, only RR will be free.  Everything is ready now, x-overs are all set like mojave has explained.

Now I want to use  Room Equalization Wizard's sweep for measurements.  My e18 dac has an ASIO driver "exaSound has developed custom ASIO driver for e18 DAC, that is completely independent from the Windows sound system"
It looks that I will need to have a loopback setting for playing sweeps through JRiver.
I run in windows XP pro sp3.  Which settings do you see for me to set this loopback?

By the way, Is there a way to save these settings while I wait for my new dac to arrive and send a normal 2 channels stereo output to my Motu unit? What would you do?
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ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2012, 11:16:50 am »

jacqlan111

Others may be able to give additional detail, but I think it will work like this for REW:

A) For sweeps without existing correction filters (when you do initial measurements:  Use your normal REW compatible sound card (with mic inputs, etc) and do your measurements.

B)  To play corrected output (after you have loaded your correction filters into MC):  Select the e18 as your output device, enable DSP/Room Correction and play your music

C)  To do new Post-Correction Sweep measurements (Using REW to re-measure after you have applied room correction in MC):  same set-up as in A, above.  Then enable loopback as described above so MC loops back ("listens to") the REW compatible sound card, applies your loaded correction filters (via dsp/room correction), and outputs your room-corrected sweep.  Compare this measurement to your uncorrected sweep to see if you need additional correction tweaks.


As to saving your settings: 

A)  You can create a "Zone" in MC with these settings and select that zone to enable the settings.
B)  or, in MC select: Playback Options/Alternate Mode Settings

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jacqlan111

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2012, 01:52:34 pm »

Thanks again Caleb
I think that will work fine  8).  Like you see I choosed the e18 DAC.  We have discussed about my project on computeraudiophile (tympatique).
I'll be back when everything's connected, we'll see then how it sounds.
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ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2012, 05:10:30 pm »

Oh, Hi

I didn't know this was you. 

I went for the exaU2I/Buffalo-III option as I described today here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Anyone-heard-new-dac-exadevices

FYI, I also received the Mytek 8x192 with 8xRCA out.  Its happily connected via firewire doing everything (except dsd for now) perfectly through MC.

(Sorry to others for going off-topic)
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jacqlan111

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2012, 04:02:55 pm »

jacqlan111

Others may be able to give additional detail, but I think it will work like this for REW:

A) For sweeps without existing correction filters (when you do initial measurements:  Use your normal REW compatible sound card (with mic inputs, etc) and do your measurements.

B)  To play corrected output (after you have loaded your correction filters into MC):  Select the e18 as your output device, enable DSP/Room Correction and play your music

C)  To do new Post-Correction Sweep measurements (Using REW to re-measure after you have applied room correction in MC):  same set-up as in A, above.  Then enable loopback as described above so MC loops back ("listens to") the REW compatible sound card, applies your loaded correction filters (via dsp/room correction), and outputs your room-corrected sweep.  Compare this measurement to your uncorrected sweep to see if you need additional correction tweaks.


As to saving your settings: 


Initial problem: I want to use  Room Equalization Wizard's sweep for measurements.  My e18 dac has an ASIO driver "exaSound has developed custom ASIO driver for e18 DAC, that is completely independent from the Windows sound system"
It looks that I will need to have a loopback setting for playing sweeps through JRiver.
I run in windows XP pro sp3.  Which settings do you see for me to set this loopback?
MIC
It looks like the suggested procedure didn't worked.  Before using JRiver, I was using MMonkey with a M.Audio card.  The loopback was from anal In/Out for time ref. .  Now I cant get the sweep from REW with the exasound e18 8ch DAC.  Cannot map the USB output from REW.  I think the input via the M.Audio card is still good.  Like I explained, the exasound ASIO driver dos not show in REW's browser.   I have tried all available outputs  and no sound is coming through.
Need an expert here.
Thanks
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mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2012, 04:46:56 pm »

That e18 is a nice looking 8 channel DAC.  8)

Try doing the following steps. I use it for REW measurements through JRiver both with or without any correction filters.

1.  To use the loopback you have to have another soundcard in the system. I use the motherboard soundcard. Nothing is actually connected to it, but the drivers still need to be installed.
2.  Set the above soundcard as 7.1 (with fullrange speakers) and as the default soundcard in the Windows Control Panel. You may need to turn off port autosensing for the soundcard to be available even when nothing is connected.
3.  Set JRiver's Audio output to ASIO and the e18.
4.  In REW, use the JAVA audio driver and set the output to whatever is the default card and the input to what you use for your microphone.
5.  Before running the REW sweeps, put JRiver in loopback mode by going to File > Open URL and enter live://loopback.

Now when you play a sweep in REW it will be sent to the default driver and be intercepted by JRiver. JRiver will play it through its DSP  and ouput via ASIO to the e18. REW will record back through the input you have specified.


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ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2012, 05:09:13 pm »

... I know it was implied but nos explicitly stated in the post above this one that:

To hear the sweep jriver needs be set to loop back ie to play loop back URL .

Be sure to test your loop back settings first using mog etc to be sure that works.

With this clarification I agree with the procedure described
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mojave

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2012, 05:14:53 pm »

... I know it was implied but nos explicitly stated in the post above this one that:

To hear the sweep jriver needs be set to loop back ie to play loop back URL .

Be sure to test your loop back settings first using mog etc to be sure that works.

With this clarification I agree with the procedure described
I just added it to the procedure. Thanks.
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jacqlan111

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2012, 08:36:20 pm »

This is express services.
thanks, I'll try that tomorrow and will let you know what happend
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ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2012, 10:28:18 pm »

"Insert Quote
This is express services.
thanks, I'll try that tomorrow and will let you know what happened"...

...if it's "express" we want to hear back TONIGHT, or you're slowing progress and innovation ;-)
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nwboater

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2012, 11:32:57 pm »

When MC is put in loopback mode by File > Open URL and enter live://loopback

1. Does it stay in loopback mode as long as MC is running?

2. If so do we somehow need to stop it when going to regular playback?

3.  Is it safe to assume that it is not re-enabled once MC is restarted?

Thanks,
Rod
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jacqlan111

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2012, 08:11:41 pm »

you're slowing progress and innovation
HaHaHa!  You are so right ;)

The proof is that I can't make it work.  See comments in blue. Can you spot the problem?
That e18 is a nice looking 8 channel DAC.  8)

Try doing the following steps. I use it for REW measurements through JRiver both with or without any correction filters.

1.  To use the loopback you have to have another soundcard in the system. I use the motherboard soundcard. Nothing is actually connected to it, but the drivers still need to be installed.  The M.Audio card 24/96 is still connected and available
2.  Set the above soundcard as 7.1 (with fullrange speakers) OK and as the default soundcard in the Windows Control Panel  OK   . You may need to turn off port autosensing for the soundcard to be available even when nothing is connected.  I have a loopback out/in for time ref connected
3.  Set JRiver's Audio output to ASIO  OK  and the e18. It's exasound ASIO ?
4.  In REW, use the JAVA audio driver OK   and set the output to whatever is the default card  default out is the only choice   and the input to what you use for your microphone. M.Audio in and the mic work as shown in the level indicator
5.  Before running the REW sweeps, put JRiver in loopback mode by going to File > Open URL and enter live://loopback.  OK

Now when you play a sweep in REW it will be sent to the default driver  YES it is showing in M.Audio panel    and be intercepted by JRiver. JRiver will play it through its DSP  and output via ASIO to the e18. REW will record back through the input you have specified.  This don't work, maybe the e18 ASIO driver don't see it?  I have tried ASIO4all without success, the e18 DAC may not like it?

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ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2012, 08:41:34 am »

...hi

Before trying REW be sure you have mc loopback working p something like utube or mog.

Also I wasn't sure from your post if you understand you are NOT doing any physical loopback ( it's all virtual), ie no wires involved.  You can use any sound device selected to default.   Play mog to it and don't connect your speakers to it.  Then set jams to play the loopback URL .  In mc under audio setup select asio and select the exa device as your asio device.  set latency to .05 seconds.  Play the URL.  ( do you see sound waves on jrmc indicating something is playing?) sometimes I have to then hit stop and play again in mc.

If trouble reread this thread, as it does work.

As a final test in the veiry unlikely case its the exa device at issue ( which i highly doubt) set your onboard sound as default and use audiophile 24/94 to play out from mc in loopback.  This will eliminate exa for testing to be sure youre doing loopback correctly without it.
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ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2012, 08:43:44 am »

When MC is put in loopback mode by File > Open URL and enter live://loopback

1. Does it stay in loopback mode as long as MC is running?

2. If so do we somehow need to stop it when going to regular playback?

3.  Is it safe to assume that it is not re-enabled once MC is restarted?

Thanks,
Rod

Yes it can stay in loopback.  You just push start/stop as usual.
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jacqlan111

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2012, 03:22:09 pm »

...hi

Before trying REW be sure you have mc loopback working p something like utube or mog.

First step  The loopback does not work properly, not at all I say.
When I tried to install it, (file->open URL->insert the "live://loopback") then clic OK, JRiver crashes every time.
Therefore when I tried to play Any youtube or web-radio or  "REW" noting is going through JRiver. 
If I open a youtube video within JRiver it's fine, but not from web pages outside JRiver.
 

Also I wasn't sure from your post if you understand you are NOT doing any physical loopback ( it's all virtual), ie no wires involved.
Yes I understood, the physical loopback from/to M.Audio analog card, is necessary for REW time reference for accurate measurements.  This physical loopback should involves only REW's operations, it is something else. It does the same without it.
 
You can use any sound device selected to default.   Play mog to it and don't connect your speakers to it.  Then set jams to play the loopback URL .  In mc under audio setup select asio and select the exa device as your asio device.  set latency to .05 seconds.  Play the URL.  ( do you see sound waves on MC indicating something is playing?) sometimes I have to then hit stop and play again in mc.

If trouble reread this thread, as it does work.  Good idea and I did it several times

As a final test in the veiry unlikely case its the exa device at issue ( which i highly doubt) set your onboard sound as default and use audiophile 24/94 to play out from mc in loopback.  OK  I did that, I had to set JRiver at 2CH  and nothing is going  through the M.Audio 24/96.  But if I put the M.Audio as the default output, it is working, "without loopback" I understand.  So It should be the loopback crashes that causes trouble This will eliminate exa for testing to be sure youre doing loopback correctly without it.
I don't see why JRiver crashes when loopback installation?
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ccclapp

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2012, 04:38:47 pm »

Are you using a current build of mc 17?

No one else has reported your issues
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jacqlan111

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2012, 07:05:08 pm »

Are you using a current build of mc 17?

No one else has reported your issues
Yea! they says that I'm one of a kind?

It may be the reason here.  I am running on MC 17.0.99 (registered), update channels is set to "stable"
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JimH

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Re: WASAPI Loopback (experimental feature)
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2012, 09:16:09 pm »

Please try the build from the top of this thread.
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