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[RSleith]

After reading the subjective/objective thread, I hope I am posting this is the correct forum.

Currently, I am placing the pointy things on my speaker stands on pennies, so as not to damage the hardwood floor. I am wondering whether there might be an appreciable sonic improvement if I were to upgrade to nickles.

TIA,
Rod

[MrC]

Trouble-making instigator and rapscallion by night.

[jmone]

Clearly you want pure copper coins as it produces much smoother harmonics than cupronickel

[nwboater]

You really should use $100 bills. They wont scratch the hardwood floor at all and will improve the sound by 10,000 times. Now let's figure out how many db improvement that is.

Cheers,
Rod

[Matt]

As I said in the subjective/objective thread, we like to state plainly what we believe to be correct.

In this case, JRiver recommends keeping each speaker stand point in a Christmas tree stand.  Remember to keep them watered for the best possible sound.

[MrC]

Ah, darn it, now I'll have to go figure out the harmonic resonance factor per liter of water, taking into consideration the dampening and reflection factors of the type and shape of the plastic container.  This is going to be tough...

Edit:  this problem is too tough.  I have one (slightly used) large, green plastic Christmas tree stand for sale.

[InflatableMouse]

As a purist, I like free floating stands. Any other type of stand colors the sound too much for my taste.

[jmone]

I've always had trouble getting them to levitate.

[InflatableMouse]

You need a Zen moment to make that happen, but once you get it believe me you woudn't want it any other way.

[RSleith]

I've also been messing about with speaker placement (haven't tried levitation yet though).

I situated my corner speaker such that the distance from the rear wall and the distance from the side wall forms a Golden Rectangle. Sounds effing cosmic! Take that, Room Correction!

[FastKayak]

Anyone know where to get hospital grade Christmas tree stands?





(Okay, I did resist for a day or two before I chimed in.)

FastKayak / Larry

[MrC]

See reply #5.

[hulkss]

Measuring just 0.34” tall and slightly less than 2” round, the Black Diamond Racing LM Disc is surprisingly effective. It improves bass weight and control, extends and smooths treble response, and greatly enhances midrange clarity and presence. Just slip a set under the stock feet of any piece of gear to hear an instant difference. We recommend using them under the BDR Cones for an incredible upgrade. The LM Discs can be used under speaker spikes or under any equipment rack, as each LM Disc can handle over 400 pounds.

Only 30 bucks each

[jmone]

Great Stuff - I think it is time with a new thread for all such bargain finds.

[Samson]

My friend, you have it all wrong, you are not supposed to place those pointy things under the speakers on the floor at all. You screw them out and firmly sit the speakers on the hardwood floor to reinforce the bass.

You then take the pointy things and sit on them, choice of which end up is optional,to isolate yourself from sonic vibrations 

[mwillems]

My friend, you have it all wrong, you are not supposed to place those pointy things under the speakers on the floor at all. You screw them out and firmly sit the speakers on the hardwood floor to reinforce the bass.

You then take the pointy things and sit on them, choice of which end up is optional,to isolate yourself from sonic vibrations 

Many people say the that room treatments are important for sound, but why mess around when you can treat the listener. I think you've opened a whole new world of audio products (listener treatments)   

I feel as though there may be a market for a hat/helmet cut out of a block of acoustic foam to "treat room effects before they get to your ears."

As I said in the subjective/objective thread, we like to state plainly what we believe to be correct.

In this case, JRiver recommends keeping each speaker stand point in a Christmas tree stand.  Remember to keep them watered for the best possible sound.

Christmas tree stands are great and all, but they're only treating the symptom, not the root problem.  The real gains are to be made in carving your speakers (or at least the stands) out of a living tree transplanted into your living room.  Then you've got a whole root system to brace the sound and quite literally "ground" it.  Plus the subtle sonic warmth of vegetal growth will infuse your music.  It's not cheap (and your floor may never recover), but...

[Samson]

I think you've opened a whole new world of audio products (listener treatments)    

I think i was being a little too subtle.I am an audiophile and (medical) scientist just throwing a bit of sledging back at "the flat earth society" all in good fun.You did catch part of the meaning though, and that is the irony that so called objectionists are using pseudoscience to convince themselves what they can or can not hear.It is just snake oil in a different form....if you like "listener treatments", to listen but not hear because surrogate measurements say you can't.As with all real science, are you measuring what you think you are measuring,are those measurements correlated to anything meaningful, are the correlations of any causal significance...reliability,validity,sensitivity,specificity etc etc. Absence of evidence is never the same as evidence of abscence guys.Sometimes its good to think outside the square coz sometimes whats inside the square proves to be wrong...Oh the world really isnt flat, uh !

I'm not saying that there isn't a huge component of snake oil in audiophile practices but about the same amount as the pseudoscience proffered to debunk them.A bit like ghost busters going into "haunted houses" to prove ghosts dont exist by using their highly scientific ghost detection equipment, arguably two ends of the same folly.

So sorry if I offended anyone or killed the tone of this post. I had a good laugh reading the post but I,m too old to take these things seriously. many of your members may find the barbs offensive. It should imo remain all good fun but not sure that ridicule should be part of that 'fun'.Let the audiophiles have their corner of the forum and enjoy their hobby.Just my 2 cents...or should that be "pennies".

[JimH]

It should imo remain all good fun but not sure that ridicule should be part of that 'fun'.

We draw the line at merciless ridicule.  Anything less is fair game, as long as it's friendly.

But we bend the rules for jmone.

[Samson]

We draw the line at merciless ridicule.  Anything less is fair game, as long as it's friendly.But we bend the rules for jmone.

Yes I"m still chuckling over some of the comments even though I disagree with them...hang on that means Im laughing at myself, I take it all back ?

[nwboater]

But we bend the rules for jmone.

Anything to keep him from talking about Intercom's!

Cheers,
Rod

[jmone]

Hey - have you seen how cheap these tablets are now.  Imagine one in each room all connected by Gizmo in a 2 way setup.  You know you want to...

[nwboater]

Sorry!

[jmone]

  just dreaming teasing!

[kstuart]

Samson wrote:
" ..."the flat earth society" all in good fun.You did catch part of the meaning though, and that is the irony that so called objectionists are using pseudoscience to convince themselves what they can or can not hear.It is just snake oil in a different form... "

Wow, you hit two different Cultural Myths in one sentence !

1)  The idea that "primitive people believed the earth is flat" originated in a very popular 19th Century novel - i.e. fiction.  There are plenty of round earth depictions from long ago (and in fact, anyone who has been fairly high up on a mountain can see the curvature of the earth).

2) Snake oil is an effective health remedy that has now been proven scientifically (look up "fish oil" and "omega-3 fatty acids").   Snake oil salesmen were guys 100 years ago, who put vegetable oil in bottles and put the words "Snake Oil" on the label.   Over the years, the original point about salesmen was lost, and somehow "Snake Oil" was falsely assumed to mean "something that does not work", when actually snake oil itself does work.

This has some direct applicability to the discussion here.

If you first put your speakers on big soft pillows, and then later put them on marble pillars, you will notice an obvious difference in bass response.   The store which uses that truth to make some sort of poorly made stand for $10 that they sell for $1000 is like the "snake oil salesmen" in some respects.

However, it is illogical to say that "because someone is selling a poorly made stand for $1000, therefore there is no difference between any sort of speaker mounting methods".

[Samson]

Wow, you hit two different Cultural Myths in one sentence !

I try hard 


I like the flat earth society analogy as it conjures up scenes of people making measurements to justify just about anything. On the other hand we can also convince ourselves about just about anything if we want to believe it.Hey a good rationalization beats the truth anytime

Oh, the flat earth society are apparently alive and well judging from this quote from the flatearthsociety.org....."Much of the experimental evidence for a flat earth is provided by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham, a 19th century lecturer who traveled the isles of Britain giving lectures at many prominent universities of the day. His experimental evidence is very easily reproducible and requires only access to a long body of standing water and a little trig to conclude that water is not convex, that the surface of the earth does not curve as round earth doctrine mathematically predicts. Other experiments require only a stick and a plumb line. Each of the experiments are described in full in the flat earth literature. "

You know they must be right because they have data, and data is evidence.

If you first put your speakers on big soft pillows, and then later put them on marble pillars, you will notice an obvious difference in bass response.

 

I agree but can you measure it? Maybe someone has, I dont know. More the point what surrogate data are they relying on.

However, it is illogical to say that "because someone is selling a poorly made stand for $1000, therefore there is no difference between any sort of speaker mounting methods".

I wonder if engineers use speaker stands? So long as you enjoy the music ...can you measure enjoyment?, just kidding, its all in good fun


As you said, snake oil may (or may not) be good for you but just the same I think I'll take my oega -3 's through eating fish 

Is Krill oil better than fish oil I hear you ask. There is a body of evidence to suggest it is more efficacious but none of the outcome studies (meaning coronary events or toal mortality) have substantiated this..yet, maybe never.So why is it exactly more "efficacious"....alegedly manipulating a surrogate measurement like lipid profile? Dont get me wrong I take my statin every day and have a wonderfully low LDL :-)


Over 30 years ago when a medical student, a professor lectured us about the benefits of high polyunsaturated oils in our diet.The next year he came in and said that was 'out', it in fact causes increase in some cancers (true story). I have been skeptical about "data" and evidence ever since.They are still debating the relative merits of balancong Omega-3 with omega-6 in our diets….hey, and don't get me started on cholesterol.

As a renowned professor of Medicine recently said to me "I love evidence based medicine, if only we had the evidence". What he perhaps should of said is "quality evidence". It is in the interpretation of this evidence is where the water starts to get murky.....and that's where we go full circle, that's subjective !

[kstuart]

"Much of the experimental evidence for a flat earth is provided by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham, a 19th century lecturer who traveled the isles of Britain giving lectures at many prominent universities of the day."

That's probably what gave the 19th century novelist the idea to posit that primitive people believed in a Flat Earth.   Or it is even possible it was a sly dig at Rowbotham (the sort of subtext that would be lost years later).

[mwillems]

"Much of the experimental evidence for a flat earth is provided by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham, a 19th century lecturer who traveled the isles of Britain giving lectures at many prominent universities of the day."

That's probably what gave the 19th century novelist the idea to posit that primitive people believed in a Flat Earth.   Or it is even possible it was a sly dig at Rowbotham (the sort of subtext that would be lost years later).

It also depends on how far back in history we're talking with that word "primitive."  Prior to the 5th century BCE there was likely pretty widespread flat earth belief  

Greek philosophers (to include Plato and Aristotle) posited that the earth was round as a hypothesis, but the matter was not exactly settled at that time (other writers still referred to a flat earth, such as Herodotus). It was a subject of some debate until about the 3rd century BC when astronomical observation confirmed a spheroid earth (later, Eratosthenes even accurately calculated the circumference of the earth by measuring shadows of sticks a given distance apart).  

So in that sense of primitive (i.e. pre-classical civilizations), there was definitely some legitimate flat earth belief (long ago and far away).  But you're right, there's been a theory of a round earth more or less since there's been written history in the west.

(sorry, this is what happens to you when you take a degree in classics  )