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[haggis999]

I am about to purchase my first ever NAS device for use as the primary store for my audio and video files. I'm guessing that I would normally access these files from MC 18 on my Windows PC and play them via a HDMI connection to my Oppo BDP-105 media player. However, I also intend to experiment with serving the files to the Oppo via DLNA direct from the NAS, without the need to switch on my PC, as a trial of the process I assume would be the most convenient solution for feeding future new players to be installed in a couple of other rooms.

At present, the primary contender is a Synology DS1513+ five bay box, initially populated with a pair of 3TB Western Digital Red hard drives in a RAID 1 configuration.

Does MC 18 access the files on the NAS via DLNA or are there better alternatives? Do I have choices on what software provides a DLNA server facility on a Synology NAS? Note that I need good metadata tag support to handle the requirements of classical music. Are there any other issues I should be aware of?

David

 

[csimon]

Does MC 18 access the files on the NAS via DLNA or are there better alternatives?

You can either use the NAS as a file server in which case MC will access the files via a network share, or turn on the DLNA server on the NAS and you can get MC to connect to a remote DLNA server. The difference is that with the former you are using MC's powerful cataloguing facilities and with the latter you are using the cataloguing facilities of the server on the NAS, which will undoubtedly be more limited. But in that case you will be able to serve media from the NAS to a DLNA device without needing the MC PC turned on.

Do I have choices on what software provides a DLNA server facility on a Synology NAS?

Yes. It has a Synology built-in DLNA server and you can also install third-party ones and there are also third-party and built-in proprietary media server apps.

Note that I need good metadata tag support to handle the requirements of classical music.  

You will need to investigate the properties of each server to see if they're suitable for you. Note that MC has probably the best metadata support of any server, you may find other options limiting.

[haggis999]

Many thanks for that clarification. I assume that a NAS could act as a file server for MC (to drive the Oppo in my living room) at the same time as being a DLNA server for a player in another room. Is that correct?

The above scenario implies two entirely independent players. What setup would be most appropriate for playing the same music or video in multiple rooms, with all players being in exact sync with one another? Is that only possible via DLNA?

David

[csimon]

Yes, you can use both independently, MC itself serving some devices, with the NAS serving others via DLNA. But remember that unless you're using very simple structures, the browsing hierachy will probably be different.

Synchronisation is another subject! DLNA is probably the worst for that, there is nothing in the protocol to allow for synchronisation.  MC will give you the ability to adjust the timing between zones (DLNA devices as well as on-board audio and video cards and client MC PCs will all appear as separate zones in Playing Now) but 100% synchronisation is not guaranteed. Probably the best sync can be achieved when one copy of MC is controlling all the outputs, i.e. local audio and video hardware. But I think you'd need quite a powerful PC to render HD video to multiple HDMI cards at the same time.

I'm achieving 100% audio sync by taking the sound card output of my MC PC into a wireless audio transmitter, and having a receiver in other rooms!  I also considered a stereo distribution amplifier which would have been a better solution but cabling is a problem in my house.  If needing video as well you could consider a HDMI splitter/amplifier.

[haggis999]

As long as it does the job for my media, I don't mind a NAS server browsing hierarchy being different to that of MC.

I had a feeling I was throwing my hook into deeper waters when I mentioned multi-room audio/video! Even if my PC could drive multiple HDMI outputs it would still be necessary to install hardware that provided these outputs. Some initial checking suggests that two sound cards would probably be required but there might be a problem getting audio on more than one output. Using an HDMI splitter/amp might therefore be both a cheaper and more practical solution.

What wireless audio transmitter do you use? Is the sound quality acceptable?

David

[csimon]

I'm taking Coax SPDIF out of my MC PC into a DAC/ADC with DD decode:

http://www.keene.co.uk/electronic/audience-by-cyp/digital-/-analogue-audio-convertor-w/-dolby-decode/AU11DM.html

This passes through the SPDIF into my AV Amp in the lounge and at the same time downmixes it into stereo analogue audio, which I plug into the audio transmitter:

http://www.marmitek.com/en/product-details/audio-video-at-home/listen-anywhere/wireless-audio-cables/audio-anywhere-625.php

I have multiple receivers and have them connected to powered speakers in satellite rooms.

Prefect sync.  The only downside is that I can't have independent audio in each room, but that's no big issue. I could always put a WDTV Live box in a room if necessary.

No problems with sound quality to my ears. The signal goes through one more another ADC cycle than is necessary I guess but I suspect the biggest factor is the quality of the amp/speakers you plug into the wireless receiver.

If you had two or more sound cards, you can get MC to play to them at the same time and adjust the sync timing, but I find it's a very fiddly and may not produce 100% sync, also the MC linking-zones facility to do this is a bit clunky and you can't do it from remotes.

[I don't know where the focus will be for MC19 but I think multi-zone/room functionality and remote control and client/server should now be top of the development list - of course MC already has all three but they don't necessarily work very well!]

[haggis999]

Implementing a multi-room setup is not my immediate priority as I have not yet even got my primary living room system fully operational, but I always like to know where I might be heading so that I don't make any decisions that restrict such future options. Your advice is therefore very useful to me.

In the absence of any negative comments about my proposed NAS purchase, that is probably my next step.

As always, many thanks for your guidance.

David

[csimon]

PS WRT the NAS, Synology is probably the best, certainly one of the top, and you're going for a high-end unit there, so I don't think you'll have any problems at that end of things!

I have a 2-bay DS209 at the moment with my media files on and it just works, together with MC, I don't need anything bigger or faster. But this was supposed to be my backup server so eventually I want to get the next version of the DS411slim for my media files - the really nice compact 4-bay device for 2.5" disks only, for SSDs.

[haggis999]

SSD technology has only just reached the 1TB mark, at a price much higher than a conventional hard drive, so I'm a little surprised you are considering SSDs for a NAS box.

David

[csimon]

Low power consumption (especially when coupled with a NAS that's designed for 2.5" drives), no noise, less heat, much faster, instant wake-up from NAS hibernation (currently MC hangs for a time while it waits for my NAS to spin up, even sometimes causing Windows to think it's not responding) - price is a consideration but to be honest prices have plummeted to the point where it's a no-brainer for me now! I don't have a massive media collection, it amounts to 900GB at the moment. I have recently built two new PCs and have put SSDs in both (128GB and 512GB) and I don't think I'll ever get anything with a spinning disk again if I have the choice!

[haggis999]

I already use an SSD as the system disk on my own primary PC but had never previously considered SSDs for a NAS. I had also never considered whether NAS wake-up times would be an issue (though I suspect I could live with that problem). The DS411Slim certainly has significantly lower quoted power requirements than the DS1513+ but it's not clear whether populating a DS1513+ with 2.5" SSDs would achieve a similar power consumption figure to the DS411Slim.

My choice of the DS1513+ was based on my estimate of future storage needs. If I rip all my current CD/DVD/DB collection I will need just under 2TB but as my Blu-ray collection expands I can easily see a need for about 9TB within the next 5 years, by which time perhaps we will have 3TB SSDs for similar prices to today's conventional hard drives (though I'm not sure if Synology permits the mixture of hard drives and SSDs in the same box).

David   

[csimon]

The DS1513+ is in Synology's "Small and Medium Business" category, has a (relatively) powerful CPU and oodles of memory. It also costs about three times as much as, say, the DS411slim and uses approximately two to three times the power even when in HDD hibernation - remember that the power and noise figures do not actually consider what types of drives are used or how many there are - I've always assumed the power figures are exclusive of the drives otherwise how could Synology give even an estimate given that they don't know what users will choose.

I've wondered about capacity myself, but considering 900GB represents about 30 years of collecting (although my vinyl isn't yet digitised!) I don't think I will run out in a time frame where another 1TB of SSD is still prohibitively expensive nor indeed upgrading to a NAS with more bays in it. If I've made a mistake, then so be it, I'll pay the price!  I think the DS1513+ is oe of those expandable ones?  So if you run out of space you simply plug in an expansion module.

Waiting for the DS414slim anyhow to see what it will offer.

It's horses for courses anyway!!

[mschneid]

I have to ask... Why a Raid configuration...?  I can think of ZERO media files that I have that if the drive failed... I would need the instantaneous availability of the Raid backup.

To my mind...  I need a media backup in my safe deposit box or in another physical location for when a physical disaster strikes or the drive dies..

In fact, the master library is more valuable to me then any particular media file on my server and THAT is the file I always forget to keep up with the house keeping.

I have wondered if the cloud services are bulletproof and reliable as a backup... and 2) would JRiver use your personal cloud server the same way as your own server  3) is it cost effective...  4) is the real issue the  feeling that I am loosing control of my files when I put them on the cloud?

[JimH]

In fact, the master library is more valuable to me then any particular media file on my server and THAT is the file I always forget to keep up with the house keeping.

I wonder if we should offer automatic backup of the library database files to a JRiver server an option.

[haggis999]

I've always assumed the power figures are exclusive of the drives otherwise how could Synology give even an estimate given that they don't know what users will choose.

Users have the freedom to install from 1 to 5 disks of varying size in a unit like the DS1513+, so by quoting only two power figures (for 'access' and 'HDD hibernation') Synology is simplifying an inherently complicated scenario. Also, the reference to HDD hibernation means that their quoted figures do not exclude the drives. I therefore assume that Synology's power consumption figures are always based on a fully populated unit (probably with the largest acceptable disk).

David

[haggis999]

I have to ask... Why a Raid configuration...?  I can think of ZERO media files that I have that if the drive failed... I would need the instantaneous availability of the Raid backup.

To my mind...  I need a media backup in my safe deposit box or in another physical location for when a physical disaster strikes or the drive dies..

That's a fair point. Given that I never considered the NAS to be my archival backup solution (which would have to be handled by a additional set of external hard disks stored offsite), I'm not quite sure what I was thinking when I stated my intention to set up a RAID 1 configuration! Thanks for pointing out that example of muddled thinking.

David

[mschneid]

ah... We are looking for the same thing... What is the most cost effective hardware configuration of server and storage  that also has  the lowest power consumption solution  running 24/7 AND is running  JRiver server software that also has a bullet proof and low maintenance  backup solution somewhere else in the world.

And the hardware must factor in the actual bandwith avaiable in the house  (cable or wifi) for  what ever high bandwith media we want to a view or listen to With a reasonable number of clients on the network gaming or looking at hig res video with state of the art fidelity, resolution etc. when we want it.

Oh... and can we back up our Jriiver library in an age of "privacy... what privacy.... there is no such thing as privacy!"

It is a big question.

[csimon]

Well.....<deep breath>

I have a plug-in power meter and my rough measurements so far as follows:

1. MC PC (Intense PC Pro (expensive!) with an i7 Ivy Bridge mobile processor, silent operation (no fan), 128GB SSD, Win7 Pro, 16GB RAM, attached DAC that receives power via USB) - 5W in standby, 20W idling, doesn't change much from that while playing a HD movie. Quoted max power for this machine under full load is 26W.

2. My eventual NAS (DS411slim or similar) is 20W under access and around 10W while disks are hibernating. I believe this 2011 model doesn't allow the CPU to sleep, hence the higher-than-expected idle power, but I'm hoping the long-awaited 2014 model will improve this.

The PC handles everything MC can throw at it, apart from ROHQ. It can only manage Standard.  Therefore the PC and storage are around 40W max (fully-populated drive bays assumed) while playing a single HD movie and not much lower while idling.  The combination is around 10W-15W in standby, which is why I would like to keep them in standby and have instant start-up times (hence SSDs). I've even found that I can shut down the PC completely instead of putting it to sleep and JRemote can wake it up from shutdown, and because of the SSD it's available within about 15 seconds. That's not too bad I think.  The major power consumption though comes from....

3. TV (modern "energy-efficient" 42" LG) - 50W.

4. AV Amp (Denon AVR-2805) - 80W.

I suppose you have to consider infrastructure too, e.g. gigabit switch, router, HDMI switch - but these do not use much power, I would guess around 10W altogether, I haven't done measurements on those yet.

With regard to hassle-free backups, I don't know as yet. MC does automatic library backups but you need to manually copy them elsewhere I guess, together with the actual media files.  If you want automatic backups to another NAS I guess you have to factor in that being continuously running together with the actual PCs (or have a timer so that they wake up occasionally to do backups) or else do it manually every so often.

[csimon]

More measurements, from my current temporary media storage, a Synology DS209 populated with 2 x 4TB drives in RAID1.

Idling: 22W - 23.8W
While playing a HD video in MC: about the same
HDD hibernation:  9.1W

Also, the PC in shutdown consumes 4.5W. I assume this is because of the USB devices I've got plugged in - the power is still supplied to them.  Unplugging them reduces the power to under 1W, I assume this would happen too in sleep.  Note that the DS209 also draws around 1W when switched off! I assume this is because the power supply brick is still switched on.