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[stiv32]

Is there a way to define for the parent playlist the columns order of the main window
and in that way define the column order of the child windows as well?

I have had some indications that View Schemes might be the solution to this; but I haven't managed to do something like that with them.

[MrC]

I don't believe the columns will push down to children.  The best you can do is save a Preset and recall that preset at each level.  I think children lists should inherit from their parent column settings.

[glynor]

I think children lists should inherit from their parent column settings.

I disagree strongly on that.

We used to have, and I'd really like back, the ability to "push" the settings of a view down to its children (and their children):
View Layout > Apply This Layout To Child Views

It worked quite well, and I've asked for it back before.  I don't know why they disabled that option.

Basically, you could set a top-level parent View (or Playlist Folder) to a particular setup you wanted all the children to have "basically in common" and then "push it down the stack".  Afterwards, you were still free to customize individual views to your liking, while easily keeping everything else "unified".  It was often very convenient to start with a common base of columns, and then make changes to individual views that serve different purposes (or had different content).  Why show the [Genre] column if all the files in that View share the same [Genre]?  Or maybe you want a "recent audio imports" view to use your standard Audio column layout, but have the [Date Imported] right at the front?

That was before we had the profile system for the Columns, which I also really like, of course.  But the problem with the Profiles is that it is extremely tedious to apply them, if you ever make any changes, to a whole set of Views.  Instead of selecting their common parent and applying it all at once, we're stuck manually applying profiles to each individual view like a robot.  I have whole sets of views and Playlists that I just have basically given up on having consistent, and I just re-apply Profiles whenever I use them (and I think of it).

[MrC]

The Apply Layout to Child Views is essentially resetting all children layouts to NIL, and then they inherit their parent's layout from the level being operated on.

The part I didn't clarify was that children inherit *by default*, but retain their individual settings when customized.  This is kinda the way views work (when they work properly).

Your option allows clearing from above, and that's very useful.

[glynor]

The Apply Layout to Child Views is essentially resetting all children layouts to NIL, and then they inherit their parent's layout from the level being operated on.

The part I didn't clarify was that children inherit *by default*, but retain their individual settings when customized.

Your option allows clearing from above, and that's very useful.

Right, I didn't go into that detail either, but that's correct.

[MrC]

And the problem with push-down alone... every new child you create has to be pushed to from above.  Inherit is the only way newly adopted children take on the characteristics of their parents.  Maybe that's a bad thing though. :-)

[glynor]

Maybe that's a bad thing though.

Yeah, I do not want that.  That is easy enough to accomplish with the existing system anyway.

1. Drag drop an existing view to its parent and make a copy.  That's how I make essentially ALL of my new views.  Copy a template source (or just the one that is closest to my goal that happens to be handy) and then modify as needed.

2. Profiles.

Push-down like that is explicit, and it doesn't block the ability to easily create a variety of different views under a common parent (which is how most of mine are structured).

[glynor]

Back when we had it, it was crippled in one important way that is now no longer a big issue.  Since we didn't have the current system of Column Profiles, when you "pushed" a layout down the stack, it would undo (of course) all of the customizations you'd made to any child views.

That was often kind of like the reverse of what we have now, but worse, because there were no column profiles to let you quickly fix the "oddballs".  Now, however, that wouldn't be a problem, because you could easily just pick a different profile for the "different from stock" ones in a given parent to fix them, while setting the biggest portion to a "unified" setup.

[stiv32]

How can I create a column profile?

[MrC]

Yeah, I do not want that.  That is easy enough to accomplish with the existing system anyway.

We're talking about Playlist and Playlist Groups here, so there's no way to do that. I'm not sure about you, but every playlist I have under some Playlist Group should have the same columns as the parent.  And if I create quickly some new playlist, I'd like to drag it into the group and it uses the parent's columns.  Since there are HotKeys for creating playlists, and they are often within a tree, I don't drill down into the group to grab an existing list for drag/drop.  Instead, I'd Send To > Create Playlist, or use F8.

[MrC]

How can I create a column profile?

Go to the tab's pull down, select Columns > Presets.  It will be obvious from there.

[glynor]

We're talking about Playlist and Playlist Groups here, so there's no way to do that. I'm not sure about you, but every playlist I have under some Playlist Group should have the same columns as the parent.

Absolutely, positively NOT.  Almost NONE of mine are exactly identical.  The only exceptions are my sets of "smart mixes".  All the rest don't follow that pattern at all.  I would say that they usually are similar (maybe very similar) but almost every one has some kind of individualization specific to their purpose.  These individualizations also follow patterns, and often amount to moving columns closer to the front, or hiding individual columns with redundant data.  So, the ones that change, are often small changes.

So, before, I'd push a new, better column layout from the Parent down the stack, and then I'd go through and tweak the individual children to be "just so".  This was quick because it was targeted.  It'd be even better now with Profiles, because I could quickly update a particular "individualized" profile (by making one exemplar after pushing the parent change down the stack, and then using the profiles to clone it over and over to the other places it is used).

In other cases, they are identical column sets "underneath" but the view doesn't show columns at all, and is in Thumbnails mode (I always have the Tag Action Window set to Column Display order, so I use this method to structure that even for Thumbnails or Category views).

I don't really care if they inherit by default if created out of whole cloth by creating a fresh view or Playlist, I suppose.  That would be convenient too.  So long as they don't "force" copypasta-ed Views and lists to take on these characteristics when moved around.

But, I want the push-down-the-stack, so that when I do change my "General Audio" column preset, I don't have to apply it 386 times to all of those "Mixes" smartlists and views.

I mixed terminology between Playlists, Playlist Groups, and Views because, in most regards, the only difference between a Smartlist (and a Playlist Group) and a View is that they don't show the Panes/Categories, they must live under the Playlists item in the tree, and you can't explicitly set the "Files to Show" search for a Playlist Group (it always shows all of the files in the lists that it contains).  I skipped a few things there, of course, but as far as column order, view styles, inheritance, and all of that, they're the same exact objects.

[MrC]

OK, so can we come up with a solution to propose that meets both of our needs, and the poor, trampled OPs?

[glynor]

I don't really care if they inherit by default if created out of whole cloth by creating a fresh view or Playlist, I suppose.  That would be convenient too.  So long as they don't "force" copypasta-ed Views and lists to take on these characteristics when moved around.

Like I said, I copy-pasta Views and Smartlists all the time.  You can even drag them onto themselves to make a copy within an existing view.  I do this a lot and then turn off the Allow Tree Selection, to make a new "category" of Views.

[stiv32]

I prefer as well all the playlists in a tree to have common columns.

Sometimes I perform some work or cleanup and I need to individually change the column view of different playlists.

After that I want all of the playlists to go back/change to the pre-defined view of a parent folder.


Also, I just tried saving a column preset and will be very useful to me from now on

Is the preset and the column profile you were referring to earlier the same thing?

[glynor]

OK, so can we come up with a solution to propose that meets both of our needs, and the poor, trampled OPs?

I think we did.

* The profile stuff we have now stays the same.
* When you create a new view, playlist, or smartlist out of whole cloth, it inherits columns from the parent, rather than use the junky "pre-defined" ones.
* Once a view has been customized, its settings are "sticky" even if they're copied or moved to different parents.
* A button/widget thing is added to Customize View > Settings > View Details called something like Reset Children Views to Match This View.  It shows a confirmation popup dialog.

[MrC]

Sounds good, with one more thing I'd like.  How do I make only one child, one that I just moved, inherit?  I don't want to go above and push (ruin) all other views in the group.  On this newly dragged playlist.  Seems like a Use Parent's Columns/sort, or Remove file list customizations, would be needed.

[glynor]

You can't apply a profile?  That seems like it wouldn't happen that often (and why would you make it that way)?

[stiv32]

I also just tried ordering the columns in the basic playlist folder. I drug-dropped some child folders in it and it works great.

Thank you both for the help

[MrC]

You can't apply a profile?  That seems like it wouldn't happen that often (and why would you make it that way)?

That's suboptimal.  I'd like to be able to just add a column to the top level, and it remains as the customization.  Now, new playlists placed under the group - I'd like to clear these to inherit exactly as the parent is currently defined.  I shouldn't need to create a Preset every time I add some column.  Too many steps.  And setting a Profile to a child is, once again, customizing the child.  I really, really, really do want a Clear Customizations and Go Back To Inheriting from your Parent (however the parent is defined at the moment).

[glynor]

That's suboptimal.  I'd like to be able to just add a column to the top level, and it remains as the customization.  Now, new playlists placed under the group - I'd like to clear these to inherit exactly as the parent is currently defined.  I shouldn't need to create a Preset every time I add some column.  Too many steps.

I agree, that's why I want the ability to push it down the stack.

The benefit is that it can go more than one level down (if I want, I can select Audio in my Tree and apply it to all of the children, and the children of the children, and the children of their children).  You can't do the reverse with simple inheritance.  It is only going to go up one level to that view's parent.

But...

I really, really, really do want a Clear Customizations and Go Back To Inheriting from your Parent (however the parent is defined at the moment).

That's fine with me.  It could be in the same spot.

However, on second thought, I don't think they (the push down, and the reset-and-inherit options) should be in Customize View as I suggested above.  It might be confusing that we're only talking about columns, and that these resets don't include things like Included Files and View As (which would be terrible).

So, instead, in the View Header > Columns menu, the same place as where you apply profiles now.  That also would show, simply, the "state" of a View (if it is inheriting or individualized), because it could have a checkmark if inheriting.

Again, though, I'd like to point out that I'd (personally) be completely happy if everything stayed EXACTLY as it is now, but we had the ability to select a parent and force their children to match as I described.  We used to have it (admittedly, a LONG time ago), but I've not given up hope.

[glynor]

So, to finalize our proposal?

* Existing Column Profiles system remains as it is.
* Views (and Playlists, etc) get a new item at View Header > Columns > Inherit Columns from Parent.  If enabled, this has the effect of clearing the customized column layout of the view and then it inherits the columns layout used by its parent, and it gets a checkmark or indicator of some kind when enabled (so the current view is inheriting)
* Likewise, they get a View Header > Columns > Reset all Child Views to Inherit from this View (wording tweak fine, natch).  This has the effect of checking the Inheritance box for all sub-views and their own children, down the tree branches until it ends.  It shows a confirmation dialog.
* Newly created views automatically have the Inherit Columns from Parent box enabled.
* When you uncheck the Inherit Columns from Parent box, the View's Columns don't change or reset (so they can be used as a "base").  In fact, it automatically unchecks if you make any changes or apply a Profile to any view, so you'd really only go there to "reset" it back to Inheritance.
* Views that are copied and pasted, or moved, retain their existing settings (Inherit Columns is unchecked whenever a view is moved or copied to a new location).

Sound right, and full coverage?

[stiv32]

I am working on ordering the parent folder. I can't find "Seq" at the drop down menu where we choose the columns to appear (right click on a column). Is there a way to add it there? I want my playlists to be ordered by "Seq"

[glynor]

It sounds complex, but I think that is actually a good (and clear) system, and actually not much different from what we have now in practice, but much easier to manage when you DO have situations as described by all of us here in this thread.  It is just all written out.  It all comes down to the Inherit Columns from Parent item.

I think it is a quite solid proposal.

[glynor]

I am working on ordering the parent folder. I can't find "Seq" at the drop down menu where we choose the columns to appear (right click on a column). Is there a way to add it there? I want my playlists to be ordered my "Seq"

Only Playlists can show that, not Views, Playlist Groups, or Smartlists.

[MrC]

Good man.  Sounds fine w/me.  Now, let's go bug Hendrick...

[glynor]

Good man.  Sounds fine w/me.  Now, let's go bug Hendrick...

It also pretty closely matches the behavior of Windows Filesystem Permissions (and posix ones a bit too, since you'd have essentially chmod /R), so it feels natural to anyone who "gets" those kinds of inheritance systems.

Agreed.

Oh, Hendrik...

[glynor]

Also, if any of this gets done (and I am setting subscribe on this to bump it like a squeaky wheel until someone tells me to go away)..

But, while you're in there, especially since you'll be adding two new things to View Header > Columns.  Can you pretty please consider making the Column Selection its own simple dialog instead of an nearly infinitely (and extremely fiddly) scrolling popup list?

Pretty, pretty please?

It is really irritating to use.  There's just way too many possible columns, and it only gets worse if you add custom fields to your Library.  I always have to type them, but even then, it is sometimes hard to find the one I want, and the thing "slides around" on me and I miss my target (and am sometimes unsure what I accidentally unchecked).

It would make the Columns submenu way cleaner too.  It would have only:

View Header >
           Columns >
                   Add Expression Column
                   ---------
                   Auto-Size Columns (why is that at the top above Add in non-alphabetical order now anyway)
                   Column Alignment >
                   ---------
                   Inherit Columns from Parent
                   Presets >
                   Reset Children to Inherit from this View
                   ---------
                   Edit Columns to Show...