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Author Topic: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups  (Read 16287 times)

AoXoMoXoA

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MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« on: November 07, 2014, 09:14:57 am »

I thought it was my computer until I upgraded my computer and the problem remained the same.

Changing Views, browsing the Explorer section of the Tree, updating tags, updating cover art, etc all cause MC to stumble.

The symptoms are a frozen interface which turns whited-out if you click on it often resulting in a Windows error box stating "Media Center has stopped working, do you wish to close the program or wait for it to respond"

I upgraded to a new Core i7 4710HQ with 12 GB RAM and MC behaves the same, so I am hard pressed to believe it is the computer and not a software issue.

How can I determine what is causing the issue?
Would posting a log or a System Info help?
Could it have anything to do with the fact that most of my large library is on off-line drives?
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Grenache

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2014, 10:02:30 am »

It's the same here. When I recently upgraded from MC 19 to 20 I immediately experienced a slower and more sluggish behavior with more frequent freezes. Nothing else has changed in my setup, so this can't be blamed on anti-virus programs, display drivers or any other of the usual suggestions.
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2014, 10:13:34 am »

I have tried several anti-virus and none at all, with no improvement.

However I cannot say for certain that this was not the same in MC19 for me.
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hoyt

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2014, 11:04:48 am »

I have tried several anti-virus and none at all, with no improvement.

However I cannot say for certain that this was not the same in MC19 for me.

Ditto...  I was thinking soon I may try to reformat my media PC.  Anecdotal since I haven't done much troubleshooting, but nothing has changed in the setup of my HTPC since installing MC20 and I regularly have MC20 hang for several seconds (or eventually crash).  I've seen a few of these threads, so I assume it's not just my impression.

--Ryan
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2014, 11:08:26 am »

Ditto...  I was thinking soon I may try to reformat my media PC. 

Well since I saw the issue migrate with Media Center to a new machine, that would be futile for me. In essence that is what I did . . . fresh hardware and OS.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2014, 11:44:19 am »

Perhaps you should test/run MC with Windows Task Manager (Resource Monitor) open to see if CPU or Disk or Network performance data provides some clues.
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2014, 12:02:58 pm »

Perhaps you should test/run MC with Windows Task Manager (Resource Monitor) open to see if CPU or Disk or Network performance data provides some clues.

Great idea . . . but I had tried it and saw little used resources, either by MC or otherwise.
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adlelare

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2014, 12:46:15 pm »

aox, and to all others experiencing this ongoing problem.  i had the same issue and again as many have noted it was not there with MC 19.  by accident on a laptop i found no problems but it was not a MC "media server" as was my main HTPC. i first disable the HTPC from my home network (pulled the NIC cable) and problem went away, then i hooked the cable back in and disabled it as a media server and problem didn't come back (ie no more hanging, crashing, etc.) i made JRiver aware of the problem before, maybe if enough pipe in they will fix it.  it is very frustrating for users to have to waste so much time on issues like this.
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 04:09:59 pm »

My situation is simpler in that there is no networking involved . . .  . . I am experiencing my problems while working with local files, and the drives/files I mentioned as being off-line are USB drives which are not plugged in during these instances.

Unless MC is doing something to check on the status of the files on the disconnected drives during these operations they should not be a factor I would think.
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JimH

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 05:14:05 pm »

My situation is simpler in that there is no networking involved . . .  . . I am experiencing my problems while working with local files, and the drives/files I mentioned as being off-line are USB drives which are not plugged in during these instances.
Looking for drives that aren't there on Windows will always cause a hesitation.  Try searching for \\blahblah at a command prompt to see this.

Try turning off auto import if you're using it.

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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 06:25:41 pm »

Looking for drives that aren't there on Windows will always cause a hesitation.  Try searching for \\blahblah at a command prompt to see this.

Try turning off auto import if you're using it.

I do not use the Auto Import feature,

I am only handling files that are on a local drive when I am experience these issues, usually tagging or merely navigating folders or views.
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JimH

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2014, 06:30:45 pm »

Check in Explorer to see if there are any drives that Windows thinks are there.

Unplug any USB devices.  Simplify the machine as much as you can.
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2014, 07:50:44 pm »

If you want us to investigate possible causes in MC, we'll need the Log Package ZIP files.

Also, if you have Network Volumes especially, you need to read through the Troubleshooting Guide I wrote.  Seriously, a whole bunch of that was written from experience I had solving issues exactly like the ones described in this thread.
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Guide

In particular, this sub-page applies directly to things I've seen solve these kinds of issues before:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Network_and_Slow_Storage

When I was battling similar issues, I had the luxury of having used MC in a variety of environments on a variety of hardware systems.  This helped to "educate" me that MC could run well on many systems, and convinced me that something was special about a few of them.  I can imagine it would feel incredibly frustrating if you didn't see those kinds of things yourself.

And, in the other thread about Hangs right now, gvanbrunt reiterated how important it is to check out network drivers with things like this.  I didn't cover that specifically in the guide, but I can second everything he said there.  I've personally seen "micro-hanging" in MC and other applications when using network volumes heavily from:

* Bad Intel NIC drivers (just a bad update)
* Bad Realtek NIC drivers (they're often bad, and I've since sworn Realtek NICs off entirely)
* Bad network CABLES.

One easy way to diagnose this is to copy a selection of files off of your file shares onto your C drive (or another fast, local disk) and import them into a "fresh" secondary library (don't restore a backup, just make a new, fresh Library and import a pile of files you've copied over).  If the problems vanish, then it is almost certainly your network somewhere at fault.
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2014, 07:58:56 pm »

Again, as I responded in the other thread.. None of this means that MC cannot be at fault, but I can confirm that I do not see the same with any of my many MC installations.  It isn't about deflecting blame, it is about trying to solve the problem.

Even if MC is at fault, we have to figure out what causes it.

Also, I'm skeptical that a nuke-and-pave (if you then put the exact same drivers, hardware, and software back on there) will help.  You have to be much more systematic than that, unfortunately.
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2014, 08:44:30 pm »

Wow glynor you are amazing.

Anyway, I just tried starting with a new, fresh, clean library. So far I have imported only local files and created only one View Scheme.
Media Center seems pretty snappy in most cases so far in the few operations I have performed.

Perhaps my issue is within my library which I had carried forward from MC19 and has been long existing.

I plan to work with it a bit and if no issues in simple form then import the files on my USB drives and see if there is an impact.

btw - I am using no networking functions other than getting cover art and no DLNA or other media networking.
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JimH

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2014, 05:50:12 am »

It would help if you'd be willing to share a copy of the MC library that caused problems.
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HiFiTubes

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2014, 07:16:38 am »

I reported that I always have to close re-open MC20 as scrolling through Album Tiles gets really sluggish, and not smooth. This is after MC has been open a while.
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2014, 07:37:27 am »

It would help if you'd be willing to share a copy of the MC library that caused problems.

OK, is that 'jim at jriver' ?
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JimH

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2014, 09:02:47 am »

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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, frequent momentary freeze-ups
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2014, 09:24:09 am »

Here's the wiki topic:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Logging

That wiki shows how to create a log file, you asked for a library copy. Also I do not see where that shows where to send said log or library.
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2014, 11:38:38 am »

The easiest way to share a Library is to make a Library Backup.  Then, you should be able to email it to someone at JRiver.  I'd probably send it to matt at jriver dot com.

A Log package showing the bad behavior would also be useful, I'd wager.
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JimH

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2014, 02:14:03 pm »

glynor's correct.  I'm still suffering from jet lag.
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2014, 08:13:15 am »

I sent a library backup to Matt, any word on that?

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leezer3

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2014, 10:54:46 am »

You haven't used IsMissing anywhere in a custom tag or smartlist have you?

Had the same symptoms a while back, and it took a long time to figure that one out.

-Leezer-
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2014, 12:01:50 pm »

You haven't used IsMissing anywhere in a custom tag or smartlist have you?

Had the same symptoms a while back, and it took a long time to figure that one out.

-Leezer-


Nope, but was worth bringing up.
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HiFiTubes

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2014, 08:17:15 am »

I'm still seeing freeze-ups and I think it's related to thumbnails. Today I had a long hang scrolling through Tiles. I rebuilt ALL thems and manually looked through all my 337K files, scrolling through my entire Album Tile View.

Today, there are missing thumbs again!

1082802: 7940: Database: CThumbnailsDatabase::GetThumbnails: Creating object
1082818: 7940: Database: CDataHolder::Load: Field: Thumbnail Offset Medium; Files: 448110; Pointer bytes: 1792588; Data bytes: 409720; Elapsed ms: 20.269
1082849: 5056: Database: MCDB::Save: Start
1082849: 5056: Database: MCDB::Save: Saving (bCleanDB: 0, bForce: 0)
1082896: 5056: Database: CMediaFileIOSave::Load: Saving: C:\Users\x64\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 20\Library\mediafiles.jmd
1082896: 5056: Database: CMediaFileIOSave::Load: Saving: C:\Users\x64\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 20\Library\field (bookmark).jmd
1082912: 5056: Database: CDataHolder::Save: Field: Bookmark; Elapsed ms: 12.855
1082912: 5056: Database: CMediaFileIOSave::Load: Saving: C:\Users\x64\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 20\Library\field (skip count).jmd
1082927: 5056: Database: CDataHolder::Save: Field: Skip Count; Elapsed ms: 8.157
1082927: 5056: Database: CMediaFileIOSave::Load: Saving: C:\Users\x64\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 20\Library\field (last skipped).jmd
1082927: 5056: Database: CDataHolder::Save: Field: Last Skipped; Elapsed ms: 8.817
1082927: 5056: Database: CMediaFileIOSave::Load: Saving: C:\Users\x64\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 20\Library\view state temporary (index).jmd
1082958: 5056: Database: MCDB::Save: Finish (109 ms)
1082974: 5056: Database: MCDB::Save: Start
1082974: 5056: Database: MCDB::Save: Saving (bCleanDB: 0, bForce: 0)
1082974: 5056: Database: MCDB::Save: Finish (0 ms)
1082990: 5056: General: CSkinnedMainFrame::OnTimer::IDT_CHECK_MAXIMIZE_RECTANGLE: Start
1082990: 5056: General: CSkinnedMainFrame::OnTimer::IDT_CHECK_MAXIMIZE_RECTANGLE: Ideal maximize rectangle doesn't match last maximize -- resizing to correct
1082990: 5056: General: CSkinnedMainFrame::OnTimer::IDT_CHECK_MAXIMIZE_RECTANGLE: Finish (0 ms)

1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: CHTTPListenerWorker::HandleConnection: Start
1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: VHTTPMessage::ParseBody: Start
1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: VHTTPMessage::ParseBody: Reading 681 bytes from message body
1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: VHTTPMessage::ParseBody: Finish (0 ms)
1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: CHTTPListenerWorker::HandleRequest: TCP: 192.168.3.251: POST: http://192.168.3.199:52100/ContentDirectory/control
1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: CDLNADeviceServerWorker::ProcessPost: Start
1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: CContentDirectoryService::HandleControlFunction: Start
1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: CContentDirectoryService::HandleControlFunction: Action: Browse
1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: CContentDirectoryService::Browse: Start
1083114: 7236: Sharing Plugins: CContentDirectoryService::Browse: Browse BrowseDirectChildren for 1031
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HiFiTubes

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2014, 08:43:36 pm »

After some hardware changes and OS tweaks my system is overall running more smoothly, however I am still observing hang ups. Not so much tagging any longer, but during scrolling. Sometimes it resolves itself, sometimes I need a MC restart.

If you were to click in the Search text entry box and scroll through Tiles, the stutter would cause the blinking text cursor to falter, same if you had playback going and EQs in the Title Bar.

I'll send in a log.

JRMark (version 20.0.37): 4259
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2014, 08:05:50 am »

pasting a jpg cover image to an albums worth of FLAC files should not take 15 seconds or more and freeze the interface on a quad-core i7 machine.

Matt, did you find anything wrong with the library I emailed?
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2014, 08:20:18 am »

Well...

pasting a jpg cover image to an albums worth of FLAC files should not take 15 seconds or more and freeze the interface on a quad-core i7 machine.

I agree that it shouldn't freeze the UI.

However, it is impressive that it only takes 15 seconds, and is largely limited by disk throughput, not the CPU power.  Keep in mind what it is doing when you paste that JPG.  It is re-writing each FLAC file to disk.

So, that's a good example of a place where MC could be better about the UI.  However, in this case, from a threading model perspective, it is tough.

Any function that "touches" the UI, will block the UI while working.  You can work around this in some cases, but it is pretty hard, and is a great way to cause nearly-impossible-to-diagnose race conditions.  Updating cover art, obviously, touches the UI (since the cover art that is displayed has to be refreshed on screen), so that means that process is almost certainly done in the main thread.

The problem is that it needs to both write to disk (which is slow) and update the database and UI (which are fast), and it doesn't know how many files are being updated.  So it might be just one (which will be basically instant), or could be 30,000 (which will take forever), or you could have a sleeping/very slow disk (and that takes a long time no matter how many there are), and all of them need to update the UI.  And you probably want it to update the UI as it goes, or else it will "feel" to the user as though MC didn't respond to their command, and so the user might do the same thing over-and-over (not realizing it is working in the background).

It's a tough problem.  In a perfect world, it would:

* Do the disk updates in the background in batches of, say, 20.
* After a single batch finishes, then refresh those 20 in the UI thread.
* Continue until all are done.

But, like I mentioned above, doing that trickery is basically asking for a race condition.  So...  :-\
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2014, 08:28:14 am »

Well...

I agree that it shouldn't freeze the UI.

However, it is impressive that it only takes 15 seconds, and is largely limited by disk throughput, not the CPU power.  Keep in mind what it is doing when you paste that JPG.  It is re-writing each FLAC file to disk.

OK that makes sense, but yet there is a noticeable difference in performance when doing this in a fresh, near empty library and the same function in my regular library of over 600,000 file entries.
Nor does it explain why I sometimes/often have the same basic problem (perhaps with a longer hesitation) when switching to a View Scheme which shows all my audio files.
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HiFiTubes

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2014, 08:36:17 am »

Interesting, so tagging cover art to files does not append a tag so to speak? But re-writes the entire file to disk?

Not to be too off-topic but the "sluggish" behavior is a sweeping feature of JRMC20 when you actually use it as a tool. I love MC but it's really troubling at times.

The fact the MC UI tries to do everything all the time is a constant source of frustration to me....

  • If you are trying to use it to enjoy your media but happen to try to rebuild thumbnails, you'll get locked out with a white screen (ok it's a big job, do it later)
  • Close MC by accident while tags are writing, you can't re-open MC. Gotta kill the process.
  • Enjoy music and tagging your media? Submitting those changes to tags as you work, as most of us like to do, views get constantly reset, and you lose your place left/right up/down.
  • Search for a file, and MC is searching/filtering the database as you type each letter, that's clunky. why not wait for a user command Enter (Maybe F3 is different?)

I don't really know how to report these things because they aren't really bugs, and if you do report them, the next release comes up and your comment is gone, or removed because it's not a bug.

I've tweaked my NAS and removed an Intel card and things are better. Tagging image files still results in some strange behavior but that very well could be corrupt files. IDK. But I do still have some unresolved issues I am trying to sort out with sluggish scrolling in Tiles, and MC not seeing embedded cover art.
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2014, 08:48:52 am »

Interesting, so tagging cover art to files does not append a tag so to speak? But re-writes the entire file to disk?

This depends on the capabilities of the file format.  For FLACs I believe it does append, and not re-write the entire file, but Matt or someone would need to confirm.

Either way, it is a disk-writing operation, and is subject to order-of-magnitude increased disk writing latencies.

OK that makes sense, but yet there is a noticeable difference in performance when doing this in a fresh, near empty library and the same function in my regular library of over 600,000 file entries.

It is not unexpected that a Library with over a 1/2 million assets would be slower than one with a more "regular" number of files.

Keep in mind, you probably couldn't even open iTunes with that many assets, much less have good performance.  ;)

Not saying there isn't a problem there, but it feels like from some of your comments you expect it to perform as instantaneously as a Library with 30K assets.  That is probably an unreasonable expectation.

You can minimize these issues by crafting views that only show a subset of your full Library.  Why, for example, do you ever need to show a view with every single audio file visible?  You aren't going to play that, and you probably just want to further filter it, so pre-filter (with saved searches called Views) and you'll have better performance.

I try very, very, very hard with my Libraries (the largest of which is around 300K assets) to NEVER, EVER, EVER open the "real" All Media View, because it is slower than the ones I use daily.  I very, very rarely need to open that big All Media view, though, because I've set the Library up such that I don't need to.

Also, with a Library that large, you absolutely need to have the Library files on an SSD.  If you don't, you're asking for pain.
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2014, 10:07:59 am »

Well then why does a view showing only 375 assets take over 20 seconds to execute the "Fill properties from filename" command on 100 files when changing a tag which is ONLY in the library and not in the file's tags?

I am not normally in a full library view, only when checking for an album to see if I already have it in my inventory.
I am having most of my difficulty in navigating to and from the Explorer section of the tree to pretty much any View Scheme, between View Schemes, and when tagging a group of 10 -100 files in either location.

You do make many valid points, but my expectations aside, the whited-out interface and the Windows 'this program has become unresponsive' dialog raise questions.
 
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2014, 10:25:49 am »

You do make many valid points, but my expectations aside, the whited-out interface and the Windows 'this program has become unresponsive' dialog raise questions.

A few things to understand...

When the MC UI turns "white" and Windows shows the "unresponsive" dialog, that is behavior of Windows, not MC.  Windows does that to ANY application that doesn't respond to an explicit UI refresh request.  You can make any application do it manually in certain circumstances.

Now, MC shouldn't be going non-responsive in general use.  I'm with you, but again, I never see that behavior except in very particular circumstances.  And I have MC installed on a TON of different machines, with different kinds of Library setups.

For example:

* I can make the MC UI hang for a short bit if I open my All Media view, but I don't actually get the Windows non-responsive message (and grayed out UI) unless I really try to get it, and it unsticks quickly (within 1-3 seconds).

* I can make MC's UI hang if I go to a view that calculates IsMissing().  That's expected.

* I can make MC's UI hang if I go to a few other Views I have that have extremely complex Files to Show rules.  These are way beyond what a normal person would do, and I use them for special circumstances.

* I can make MC's UI hang when I open my Handheld and tell it to refresh.  This takes a LONG time, but I have it set to sync every single Audio file in my Library except a handful, and it has a complex smartlist-stacked-on-smartlists scheme to generate the list.

Other than that, I can't make it hang if I want to by just browsing around my Library, even when using my Libraries that work off of relatively slow UNC network shares (though I've disabled the show missing icons option on that system).

So, if you aren't doing complex things in:
* Files to Show
* Expression Columns
* Calculated fields that are shown on-screen

And your regular, everyday Views are acting slow (and they aren't trying to show more than 200K assets or so) then you have something particular to your machine or installation going on.  That DOES NOT mean that MC doesn't have a bug, but it DOES mean that it might not be easy to find, and we need to figure out why yours does it when mine (and Matt's and Hendrik's, etc) doesn't.

Usually, it is the stuff I covered in the Troubleshooting Guides.  Network volumes and not disabling the icon option.  Anti-Virus. Putting your Library on a dumb disk.  Etc.  But, there could be more esoteric reasons, or you could just have a super-expensive looping calculation being done in a particular column, field, or in the Files to Show filters.
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2014, 10:32:27 am »

well then, I guess I will go back and re-read and re-check.
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HiFiTubes

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2014, 10:59:18 am »

Salient points but...

A View I often use is Albums, Tiles sorted by Album Artist [Auto], and I like to browse all my "albums".

Is this a reasonable view? I don't see why not. I'm not display all Artists or Songs, and even after MC has "learned" that I want to brows all these albums (all thumbs built scroll all the way down and up etc.), I still find MC randomly becoming sluggish.

I have disabled Last.FM plugin and quite a few features I don't use. DLNA I have to leave on for JRemote.

Something isn't quite right and I think it's unrealistic to put a cap at 200K and claim there will be some resultant bottleneck. I'm using 37% RAM out 16GB, usally 20% after a fresh restart.

I'm tempted to take a screencast. I just switched from my Album View to a small View of albums and MC just won't scroll properly.

None of my other Windows applications behave like this, and I have no 3rd party mouseware (e.g. Setpoint).

Whats the JMARK score on your new machine AX?

I have tried different Skins, turning off EQ, no Last.FM, simple filters on views, rebuilt all thumbs....if I load up a Google Image search in Firefox and scroll it's smooth as glass.

 
A few things to understand...

When the MC UI turns "white" and Windows shows the "unresponsive" dialog, that is behavior of Windows, not MC.  Windows does that to ANY application that doesn't respond to an explicit UI refresh request.  You can make any application do it manually in certain circumstances.

Now, MC shouldn't be going non-responsive in general use.  I'm with you, but again, I never see that behavior except in very particular circumstances.  And I have MC installed on a TON of different machines, with different kinds of Library setups.

For example:

* I can make the MC UI hang for a short bit if I open my All Media view, but I don't actually get the Windows non-responsive message (and grayed out UI) unless I really try to get it, and it unsticks quickly (within 1-3 seconds).

* I can make MC's UI hang if I go to a view that calculates IsMissing().  That's expected.

* I can make MC's UI hang if I go to a few other Views I have that have extremely complex Files to Show rules.  These are way beyond what a normal person would do, and I use them for special circumstances.

* I can make MC's UI hang when I open my Handheld and tell it to refresh.  This takes a LONG time, but I have it set to sync every single Audio file in my Library except a handful, and it has a complex smartlist-stacked-on-smartlists scheme to generate the list.

Other than that, I can't make it hang if I want to by just browsing around my Library, even when using my Libraries that work off of relatively slow UNC network shares (though I've disabled the show missing icons option on that system).

So, if you aren't doing complex things in:
* Files to Show
* Expression Columns
* Calculated fields that are shown on-screen

And your regular, everyday Views are acting slow (and they aren't trying to show more than 200K assets or so) then you have something particular to your machine or installation going on.  That DOES NOT mean that MC doesn't have a bug, but it DOES mean that it might not be easy to find, and we need to figure out why yours does it when mine (and Matt's and Hendrik's, etc) doesn't.

Usually, it is the stuff I covered in the Troubleshooting Guides.  Network volumes and not disabling the icon option.  Anti-Virus. Putting your Library on a dumb disk.  Etc.  But, there could be more esoteric reasons, or you could just have a super-expensive looping calculation being done in a particular column, field, or in the Files to Show filters.
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2014, 11:12:38 am »

HiFiTubes, if you want assistance, and don't just want to complain, please make sure you've followed the guide and then provide some Logs as requested.

I don't see any logs in this thread at all from either of you.  I know AoXoMoXoA has in other threads, and you may have emailed them to people at JRiver, but I can't help you with it then, and it relies on Matt having time.

For both of you, I'm happy to help review them and see if I can figure it out.  What I would need is everything listed from here down:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Guide#Look_For_Patterns

All in one post, in one place.

A Library Backup ZIP file wouldn't hurt either.  If you need a place to host these, and you don't have a Dropbox account or something similar, WikiSend is free and doesn't even require you to create an account for most files.
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HiFiTubes

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2014, 11:18:19 am »

I love complaining, but I'm not. I taking the time to post my experiences.

I did post I removed my Intel NIC and made many other system improvements.

I've already sent logs and lib to Matt.

Unsubbed.
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2014, 11:21:15 am »

Okay... That doesn't answer anything I asked for.  As I said, I'm willing to donate my free time and help you.  If you want help, this is a good opportunity, as I've personally solved issues just like this in the past.

If you don't want help, though, then... Okay, goodbye, I guess.  ::)
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kstuart

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2014, 12:04:25 pm »

If both Intel NICs and Realtek NICs are inadvisable, then which are okay ?  Thanks.

glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2014, 12:14:38 pm »

If both Intel NICs and Realtek NICs are inadvisable, then which are okay ?  Thanks.

I don't know why he would say that Intel NICs are inadvisable.  Those are all I use, and I get wonderful performance out of my Intel NICs.  I have a variety of different ones, including one "onboard" (part of the motherboard) one and a bunch of different PCIe cards.

I do know there were a few older Intel NICs that they discontinued and didn't release drivers for that work under Windows 8.1 x64.  Perhaps he had one of these and it was behaving badly?

Not sure.  We'd need more info there to see what was going on.

But, except for my Macbook Pro, I'm running 100% Intel NICs, and have very nice network performance.
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2014, 12:24:27 pm »

I've certainly been able to get Realtek NICs to behave properly, by the way.  But they're definitely flakier, and I've seen lots of problems come and go with drivers (and they are more picky about switches and cabling, to boot).

I just got frustrated and eventually swore them off, the 32nd time I hit a problem with them that turned out to be due to flaky Realtek drivers or firmware.

And, if you talked to MrC about it (who would know, since one of his many jobs in days-long-since-past was writing NIC drivers and firmware for a major network equipment vendor), he'd tell you to NEVER, EVER, EVER use Realtek NICs.

So, I stopped.  ;D
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2014, 07:01:17 pm »

Glynor, I greatly appreciate your time and efforts.

I will try to gather the logs, library, etc. shortly
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flac.rules

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2014, 05:27:17 am »

A few things to understand...

When the MC UI turns "white" and Windows shows the "unresponsive" dialog, that is behavior of Windows, not MC.  Windows does that to ANY application that doesn't respond to an explicit UI refresh request.  You can make any application do it manually in certain circumstances.

The whiting out the screen is windows behavior, but the underlying problem isn't the white screen, its the unresponsive UI that makes it look like the program has stopped. The way you describe it, the problem is that MC doesn't respond to the UI refresh request. Why? Isn't there a way to make it do this?
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JimH

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2014, 06:52:37 am »

Windows sometimes has a mind of its own.
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flac.rules

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2014, 12:44:57 pm »

Windows sometimes has a mind of its own.

I am not a programmer, so I don't know all that much about the programming part, but that I can relate to :)
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gvanbrunt

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2014, 03:56:28 pm »

Yes there is lots of "stupidity" built into Windows. The fact that it's design allows a UI to appear frozen even when it technically shouldn't be is one. Another I HATE is focus stealing. Drives me nuts. One program that suddenly jumps to the foreground and screws up what you are typing etc. In the Win 95 alpha days I hammered on the MS devs to change that to a flashing icon on the task bar. Back then they said "no it may have breaking changes". Over time they have fixed the issue somewhat as it is no where near as bad as it used to be. However it still happens. And even worse can happen when you are typing a password in a password box on a web page etc. Not good...

Anyhow, I'm done my rant for a day.
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glynor

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2014, 07:14:36 pm »

Ahem.

Still waiting for a Log.   ;) ;D
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2014, 08:40:29 am »

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Trumpetguy

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Re: MC20 is sluggish, freeze-ups
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2014, 11:43:09 am »

All of a sudden, today, I also experienced something like this, build 20.0.41. MC responds, but each click or window move takes ~10s. After reboot and/or re-logon everything works fine for some minutes, tehn it starts again. Playbeck does not seem affected, but it can suddenly stop responding to volume changes (which happened today, while video playback was still smooth).

FWIW, I have uploaded a log file for the past half an hour. It should be from the time of fresh logon until a point where MC starts half-freezing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxh6wfl3ag9ovl8/JRiver%20Log%202014-11-30%2018-35-48.zip?dl=0

EDIT: Have to add that my computer has not been altered for the past few months, except windows update, nVidia driver update etc.
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