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[masterjoe]

Hi there,

I am totally new to JRiver Media Player. So far I have experience with many other DLNA servers (e.g. Serviio, Plex) but not with JRiver's.

The following issues are holding me back from purchasing the software. If there are solutions or comments please don't hesitate to give me your feedback!


1. DSP over DLNA limitatons.
Made a quick test with one of the new amazing features of version 20: DSP over DLNA. However there are some severe limitations.

a) VST plugins do not work.
If you add a VST plugin to the chain then audio will not become processed through it. Internal plugins work fine however.

b) Audio in video files is not processed at all.
Even by forcing videos to be converted to a specific output format for the DLNA renderes the video's audio is not processed through the audio DSP settings.
Here even internal plugins don't work.

2. DLNA seeking does not work.
Jumping to a specific time position in a video file does not work at all. It is not possible to continue watching a long video from a given position within the video.
That's a bummer.


These limitations are show stoppers for me regarding a purchase of the otherwise nice media center.

Can these issues be worked around or will you implement the missing features any time soon?

Thanks.

[ferday]

For 2. It's a DLNA issue

There are many device specific solutions posted on the forums...I use wdtv myself and it took some time to find the right settings.  My Sony tv is mostly out of luck....it depends on the rendered what settings you can play with

Search for AndrewFG / whitebear and you'll find a bunch of info

Can't help much with 1. At the moment, sorry

[masterjoe]

Well I have a LG TV but have no luck at all with ANY transcoding setting. The TV will always say that the file type is incompatible! Is there no MP4 profile available?

Regarding the DSP over DLNA issues: Could someone from the staff please explain why these limitations are there and if this will be fixed any time soon?

[AndrewFG]

For 2. It's a DLNA issue

There are many device specific solutions posted on the forums...I use wdtv myself and it took some time to find the right settings.  My Sony tv is mostly out of luck....it depends on the rendered what settings you can play with

Search for AndrewFG / whitebear and you'll find a bunch of info

Can't help much with 1. At the moment, sorry

Try downloading the DMRA test application from the link in my sig. Run the test against your TV and post the report here...

[masterjoe]

Ok, just did what you suggested and here is the result (attached). And now what?
Tried to run the tests but that does not seem to work - nothing happens after selecting the potential tests and then the "Renderer Tests" tab is empty?

[rs55]

I am a new user - I purchased MC20. Have DLNA working great with PCM 24.
My big issue is that VST plugins in DSP are not working over DLNA. This is very important to me ( I have the expensive Redline preamp vst) and I tried all kinds of permutations ( PCM 16, MP3 etc) - the VST pluguns dont work at all over DLNA.
Any help much appreciated. Thanks.

[masterjoe]

I will not purchase JRiver Media Center V20 if the issues from my initial post are not resolved.

And it seems that no one chimes in to explain why these limitations exist or when they will be corrected.

DSP over DLNA only makes sense when it:

- affects BOTH plain audio AND audio within a video
- does NOT introduce any audio lag / deplay regarding the resulting muliplexed video (DSP for audio within a video)
- works with ANY plugin added to the DSP chain: internal, VST, DirectX etc.

And still I do not have a solution for transcoding videos for my LG TV. This does not work with any settings. Serviio and Plex work fine on the same TV without configuring anything!

[rs55]

masterjoe- I only use MC for music. I am curious - why do you use it for video? I listen to the same collection of music for years - but movies generally no more than once. Are you running broadcast TV or Netflix and so on through MC?

Also- as an audiophile I enjoy finetuning the sound for music , but for movies I dont need the ultimate in audio finetuning. Maybe I am missing how you use MC.

Are you aware of any solution for running vst processed music through DLNA?

[masterjoe]

Sure - for music there is foobar 2000 which is free after all! It can use VST plugins and DLNA at the same time. However it cannot process DLNA audio through the DSP section. This can AFAIK only be done with MC20.

Well I have a library of video and audio files. I want them to be available all over my house so that I can view videos and listen to music at any time everywhere. Videos need to be processed in terms of equalizing, loudness control and room processing.
So also the audio of videos shall be processed by JMP as the loudness level is not always the same for all videos (limiting is required for typical Hollywood movies as the dynamics range is enormous) and some movies sound dull right out of the box so I want to equalize them. However I don't want the movies to be preprocessed - they shall be processed on-the-fly.

MC seems to go this way - however it does not really go far enough for me. And I don't understand why - because everything is in place! Talking about DSP over DLNA - why have they omitted support for VST plugins e.g.? And why can't the audio of a video be processed (limiting, equalizing, room correction, etc.) by the audio's DSP section? These are severe and not understandable limitations!

For me there are also other reasons why I want to use VST processing - because I have a complex system here which routes audio through an ASIO/VST mixing and processing matrix which allows for voice overs and alerts which COULD be overlaid with the video's audio IF VST plugins would be possible for video files. But this is something most users won't do

I am still looking for a DLNA server which can process the audio of video files through a DSP section that supports VST. There is none!

These limitations hold me back from buying MC.

[JimH]

Joe,
It's JRiver Media Center, not JRiver Media Player.  For short, you could use MC, not JMP.  I've edited some of your posts.

[Matt]

My big issue is that VST plugins in DSP are not working over DLNA. This is very important to me ( I have the expensive Redline preamp vst) and I tried all kinds of permutations ( PCM 16, MP3 etc) - the VST pluguns dont work at all over DLNA.

The format flowing through the chain has to be supported by the VST.  Make sure the sample rate is within range for example.

[rs55]

The format flowing through the chain has to be supported by the VST.  Make sure the sample rate is within range for example.

It is. In fact I just set up Foobar2000 with the vst plugin and DLNA plugin. it works on Foobar!
Are you saying that you have tried a vst plugin over DLNA in MC20? It should only take a few minutes.

[Matt]

We found out that VST effects were not being supported! 

There's a check for "unsafe DSPs" and of course a VST effect is unsafe.  This shouldn't matter in DLNA's case, but it was setting the flag to check the status incorrectly.

It will be fixed in the next build.  Sorry for the trouble.

[rs55]

Terrific! Look forward to the next build. Thanks a bunch!

[rs55]

We found out that VST effects were not being supported!  

There's a check for "unsafe DSPs" and of course a VST effect is unsafe.  This shouldn't matter in DLNA's case, but it was setting the flag to check the status incorrectly.

It will be fixed in the next build.  Sorry for the trouble.

Thanks again. Currently the vst effect works in the main audio section( connected DAC with WASAPI). I hope this will continue to be the case in the next build and you will enable vst effects over DLNA as well.

I ask because I am not sure what the definition of "unsafe" is - and enjoy using the vst in both my connected DAC /headphone amp , as well as through DLNA to my stereo system.

[Matt]

I ask because Iam not sure what the definition of "unsafe" is

Unsafe just means we don't know what it's doing.  It could be writing to disk, for example.  Our own DSP effects are known to not do anything fishy so they're "safe".

The check is useful for protected WMA files.

[masterjoe]

Ok... as long as there is a way to force MC to process all the plugins (including VSTs) SOMEHOW it is ok. Won't mind to enable "unsafe" plugins. However the same plugins DO work when they are not being used by the DSP over DLNA section but by the regular DSP section for local playback.

However there is still one thing remaining in the dark: Why is it not possible to process a video's audio with the DSP over DLNA section too?

I mean when transcoding is on it should work in any case because everything gets transcoded and so processing the audio through the DSP section should be a snap.
But there should also be a way to ONLY handle the audio in a video and remux the result for DLNA output, i.e. the video frames are untouched while the audio is transcoded using the DSP section also. (Well going one step further there could also be a DSP section for processing the video frames... but that is outside the scope of this thread.)

Side note: A VST's / plugin's reported latency should be taken into account when remuxing or transcoding the video stream in order to keep it synchronized correcly!

So the question repeated: Why is it not possible to process a video's audio with the DSP over DLNA section too?
Please remove that limitation.

[masterjoe]

Build 93 does DSP over DLNA for VST plugins but the following strange observation have been made:

Audio is sometimes not processed from the beginning?!?
So the DSP can be heard when skipping forward in the audio file but not right at the beginning (the first minute or so has no DSP processing?!)

How can that be?