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[dirk92gta]

Hello all,

Is this normal?  Hauppauge's site seems to indicate that my recorded files shouldn't be this large.

While timeshifting or recording shows, my recordings take up about 70GB on disk per hour.  I recorded a 3 hour football game and 210GB were consumed by the MC21 files.  Even now, I am less than 10 minutes time shifted on an analog channel and over 10GB have been consumed in the timeshift folder.  Checked again at 24 minutes and I am now at about 28GB of disk space used in my Timeshift file location.

OS: Windows 10 Enterprise
Capture Device: Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-955q (1114xx ATSC/QAM) USB device configured for Analog cable.

To test: I uninstalled MC21 and cleared settings.  Rebooted. I left all settings at default.  Restored license.  Configured Television settings for the capture device and EPG/channel guide.

Tested Timeshifting on 2 different hard drives (one SATA and one SSD).

Multiple 303,751 KB files are written - Cable 4 2015-08-15 22-54-*.jts.cnk files
Multiple 22,501 KB files are written - Cable 4 2015-08-15 22-54-*.jta.cnk files

Tools > Options > Television > Recording format = jtv

Tools > Options > Video = Red October Standard

I have tried with both Hardware Accelerate video decoding and VideoClock both enabled and disabled.

Tools > Options > Audio

Tried both Direct Sound and WASAPI

I am not getting any stuttering in audio or video at least.

What other info can I provide?

Thanks for any help!

[CountryBumkin]

Something is wrong. TV recordings will typically consume 5 Gigabytes of disk space per hour for ATSC high definition. Analog TV recordings will typically consume 1.5 Gb of disk space per hour.

Timeshifting adds a buffering component. How many hours do you have timeshifting set to?
For testing purposes, go to Tools>Options>Television>TimeShifting and set Timeshifting for digital devices to "No".

Also, you may want to try a recording in ".ts" format to compare the difference.

[dirk92gta]

Timeshifting adds a buffering component. How many hours do you have timeshifting set to?
For testing purposes, go to Tools>Options>Television>TimeShifting and set Timeshifting for digital devices to "No".

Also, you may want to try a recording in ".ts" format to compare the difference.

Thanks for the ideas!

I have tried Timeshifting at both the default of 4 hours and 1 hour.  Currently set to 1 hour.  Tested again, problem still exists.

I set Timeshifting for digital devices to no.  Tested again, problem still exists.

I have tried recording in ".ts" format.  Problem still exists.

[RoderickGI]

Is it just one channel that does this, or do all channels of the same type create large files?

Could it be that the Analogue Cable signal isn't being compressed at all, and you are getting raw video and audio recorded into the files? What does MediaInfo say about the files, particularly the bitrate?

[dirk92gta]

Is it just one channel that does this, or do all channels of the same type create large files?

Could it be that the Analogue Cable signal isn't being compressed at all, and you are getting raw video and audio recorded into the files? What does MediaInfo say about the files, particularly the bitrate?

Thanks for the help!

All channels create large files, not just a single channel, unfortunately.

I don't know enough about how things work to determine if I am getting raw uncompressed data recorded, but you may be correct since the files are huge

I don't know much about MediaInfo but I gave it a shot on the files being created by MC.

Here is the output from one of the 300+MB files (jts file):

General
Complete name                            : H:\JRiverTimeShift\Cable 24 2015-08-16 20-29\Cable 24 2015-08-16 20-29-0.jts.cnk
File size                                : 297 MiB


And one of the 20+MB files (jta file):
General
Complete name                            : H:\JRiverTimeShift\Cable 24 2015-08-16 20-29\Cable 24 2015-08-16 20-29-1.jta.cnk
File size                                : 22.0 MiB

There is no other MediaInfo data for any of these files.

Thanks for any other insight you may have!

[RoderickGI]

Okay, that is a little strange. When MediaInfo only shows the file name and size, that usually means that the file isn't a media file. If those files are playable, I guess it means that the file isn't a known media format, or there is no header data about the format at all, or something like that. Maybe you need to find a video tool that can identify what the format actually is. Or perhaps if Yaobing can find time to assist, you could send him a sample video file.

The files are playable aren't they? Thinking about it, you must be recording the raw Transmission Stream, without any compression or processing on the card. As far as I know MC just records the raw transmission in JTV format as well though, so it is a bit of a mystery. Maybe there is some setting in the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-955q driver, or configuration panel if it has one, that sets some special format or quality level, which is creating these files.


Wikipedia has a page listing the Storage and Data Rates for Uncompressed Video, where you will see that 70GB/hour isn't a very high quality video.


As an example of the MediaInfo output I get on DVB-T recordings in JTV format, see below.

BTW, I've just realised that MediaInfo is only showing the Maximum Bitrate for my video below, which is a bit useless. MC reports the Bitrate for the recording as 15,192 Kbps, which has to be compressed as the simple calculated data rate for video of 8bit @ 1440x1080i @ 25fps: 8x1440x1080x25/2 = 155,520,000 bps = 151,875 Kbps.

My calculated Bitrate is closer to 8,448 Kbps based on file sizes. I'm using a 100 minute recording which has a total size of 6.35 GB (6,827,624,397 bytes) as my sample.

So now I'm not helping, just rambling. But I do suggest that you look to the Hauppauge driver or configuration. Plus perhaps try a recording with the software that comes with it, or some other TV recording software, to see if it is just a MC problem.


------------------------------------------------
General
Complete name                            : \\WILMA\Recorded TV\CSI_ Crime Scene Investigation 2013-12-28\CSI_ Crime Scene Investigation 2013-12-28-0.jts.cnk
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
File size                                : 215 MiB
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

Video
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@High
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
Format settings, picture structure       : Frame
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Maximum bit rate                         : 80.0 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 440 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy

-----------------------------------------------
General
Complete name                            : \\WILMA\Recorded TV\CSI_ Crime Scene Investigation 2013-12-28\CSI_ Crime Scene Investigation 2013-12-28-0.jta.cnk
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
File size                                : 2.75 MiB
Duration                                 : 51s 424ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 448 Kbps

Audio
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Duration                                 : 51s 424ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 448 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 2.75 MiB (100%)
------------------------------------------------

[CountryBumkin]

215 MiB? Had to look that up. It's equal to about 225MB. http://wintelguy.com/gb2gib.html

[mwillems]

215 MiB? Had to look that up. It's equal to about 225MB. http://wintelguy.com/gb2gib.html

Not necessarily; The MiB concept and notation was created because Megabyte (or MB) is equivocal (and was being used in a non-SI conforming way).  It can refer (depending on who is talking) to both 2²⁰ and to 1000000.  

Windows uses the power of two definition, so a Windows-reported MB is a MiB.  That's one of the main reasons that Hard Drives never have the advertised capacity when you look at them in explorer.

[RoderickGI]

Yep. Using the MiB unit of measure is just the geeks that wrote MediaInfo being unequivicol.

I find that whole MB vs MiB issue a right pain when using technology. If I could I would command hard drive, flash drive, and all other manufacturers of memory in all forms to use MB, with a meaning of 2²⁰ (1048576) Bytes.

Alas, no-one has the power to command that.

[dirk92gta]

The files are playable aren't they? Thinking about it, you must be recording the raw Transmission Stream, without any compression or processing on the card. As far as I know MC just records the raw transmission in JTV format as well though, so it is a bit of a mystery. Maybe there is some setting in the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-955q driver, or configuration panel if it has one, that sets some special format or quality level, which is creating these files.

So now I'm not helping, just rambling. But I do suggest that you look to the Hauppauge driver or configuration. Plus perhaps try a recording with the software that comes with it, or some other TV recording software, to see if it is just a MC problem.

MC does play the recorded files without a problem.  VLC doesn't like them.

I don't see any Hauppauge configuration app or driver config on my system.  I did email them this AM to see if they plan to have a Windows 10 driver.  I have tested MC with both the Windows 7 and Windows 8 Hauppauge drivers but the large file results are the same.

I did try using NPVR with my Hauppauge device but it didn't want to find any channels on the channel scan.

I will look into buying WinTV 8 from Hauppauge for $10 even though I don't really want to use it.  I hope to see how it records media.

Thanks for the help!

[jandkvarga]

I too, had this problem when I set up my analog channels with MC using a basic USB tuner (Avermedia H826). Additionally, I was unable view live/time-shifted analog video, nor analog video of recordings in progress from any remote MC computers; I was able to view the video once the recording was completed.  I used the same tuner with WMC and BeyondTV and the analog file sizes were reasonably small.

I replaced the basic usb tuner with one that included a built in mpeg encoder (Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1955) and the resulting analog files were reduced to the small sizes that I obtained with WMC and BTV and I was able to view Live/time-shifted video from remote computers.  I assume that there may be a software solution since WMC and BTV do not require the hardware decoding.

[dirk92gta]

I do believe that the root cause of my issue is that the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-955q does not have an onboard encoder.  MC seems to be recording my analog stream as raw data and is not doing any sort of compression on the feed.

Hauppauge's site states:
Record analog TV shows to your PC's hard disk using our SoftPVR™ MPEG-2 encoder.

According to NPVR's support site, they require the SoftPVR drivers for analog devices (I assume for software compression):
http://www.nextpvr.com/nwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Utility.HauppaugeSoftPVR

I have ordered the Hauppauge WinTV8 CD and hope to see if it works as expected.

Based on my and jandkvarga's experiences, is there any chance that MC supports (I don't know where to set that up) or will support any sort of software compression for capture devices without on board hardware compression?

If not I will end up using WinTV8 for my television capture needs.

Thanks again for all of your help and advice!

[RoderickGI]

Well I can confirm that MC just records the stream as provided by the tuner device, as Yaobing has said that before. It doesn't do any encoding of the stream prior to saving to disk.

It is possible though that once you install the WinTV8 software with the SoftPVR drivers, MC will pick up the encoded TV stream instead of the raw stream. It probably depends on the SoftPVR driver, and the BDA drivers that come with it, and/or the BDA drivers you are using now. I would hope that the software encoder hooks into the stream processing and encodes it for you before handing it on to another process, such as MC.

I guess you will have to try and see. I would install the WinTV8 software, configure it, test that it works and produces smaller files, and then try a new recording in MC to see if the problem still exists.

Yaobing may step in and comment as well, and being the developer, he may be able to help further if it still doesn't work.

[dirk92gta]

Well I can confirm that MC just records the stream as provided by the tuner device, as Yaobing has said that before. It doesn't do any encoding of the stream prior to saving to disk.

I guess you will have to try and see. I would install the WinTV8 software, configure it, test that it works and produces smaller files, and then try a new recording in MC to see if the problem still exists.

Yaobing may step in and comment as well, and being the developer, he may be able to help further if it still doesn't work.

Hauppauge graciously sent me a registration key via email so I wouldn't have to wait for the CD for WinTV 8 to arrive before I could use their software.

WinTV 8 produces smaller files for recordings, as suspected.

Unfortunately, the behavior for MC did not change and large files are still produced.  It looks like the diagnosis of my problem is confirmed in that MC does not do any encoding prior to saving to disk!

I am glad to see that things are working as expected and that I do not have a faulty capture device or have a problem with MC.  I am a bit saddened that I can't use MC and the integrated EPG, however, as the disk use it just too high to continue realistically using going forward

Maybe I should look around the forum and see if there is a place where I could put in a feature request, if one does not already exist.

Thanks again for all of the help!

[RoderickGI]

Apparently Yaobing is on holiday until next week. When he returns he may be able to offer a solution. There are feature request threads, but asking in this TV forum usually gets a direct answer or comment from Yaobing.

Did you ask Hauppauge about a possible solution?

Also, Google everywhere about recording Analogue Cable TV. I saw discussions elsewhere (i.e. not on the JRiver site) about the issue. Maybe someone has worked out how to use the Hauppauge drivers without using their software, to produce smaller files. Certainly NextPVR seem to be doing it, but they seem to have some special alliance with Hauppauge.