Topic: Performance problem with 20.0.61 (Read 17744 times)

redmodred · « **on:** January 23, 2015, 08:14:25 pm »

I downloaded JRiver to trial it on 1/20. Version downloaded, 20.0.47. Got just about everything working, performance, great. THEN an automatic update to 20.0.61 occurred today. Performance is TERRIBLE, in Audio, simple scrolling up/down thru a library is simply broken. Takes several seconds to scroll up or down a page. Library has about 3000 albums in it.

Also tried 20.0.62, same unresponsive results....

What's up? (PC is plenty powerful, 12Gb RAM, 10,000 RPM HD, Intel i7-920 3.2Ghz, NVidia GTX690 video card...

Ran the JRiver Benchmark:
Math: 2263
Image: 4383
Database: 3433
TRMark: 3359

Okay, I reinstalled 20.0.47, scrolling up/down thru my library works perfectly Again. I can use 3D albums and it to works perfectly smooth and flowing images. Basically, mouse and keyboard inputs are extremely slow in newer version.

pacwin · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2015, 10:54:26 pm »

I only use JRiver for Audio purposes and mostly controlled remotely. Unfortunately have not been able to update beyond 20.0.41 version due to recurring glitches and time smearing problems (lags, stuttering, time distortion/note elongation) with later builds which is more pronounced when playing high resolution files (DSD 64 is primary music source format and most of the time runs in DoP mode). This is independent of the DAC or device driver and occurs with both USB and Firewire interfaces. I have maximum buffer settings and files are cached in memory and there is nothng aggressive about gapless settings.

Nothing has changed on this device other than JRiver updates. Thee is no obvious CPU load being generated by JRiver. The JRiver device is a dedicated Dual Core 1.8Ghz Atom on Windows 8.1 but it been that way for several years.

JimH · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2015, 07:59:30 am »

DSD can require a lot of CPU power. A dual core atom is probably not enough.

Please run the benchmark feature under MC's Help menu and paste the result here.

Test FLAC or WAV to see if you find the same problem.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2015, 08:09:19 am »

Are you using any other programs, plug-ins, utilities in the audio playback chain? DSP?

dtc · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2015, 08:43:27 am »

Quote from: JimH on January 24, 2015, 07:59:30 am

DSD can require a lot of CPU power. A dual core atom is probably not enough.

Please run the benchmark feature under MC's Help menu and paste the result here.

Test FLAC or WAV to see if you find the same problem.

Bitstreaming DSD takes very little compute power. I bitstream 2x DSD with an old Netbook with a JMark below 500. If you are converting on the fly form PCM to DSD that does require a lot of compute power.

pacwin · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2015, 01:17:20 am »

The time smearing occurs with all file bit rates/depths but tends to occur towards the beginning and end of tracks and is more likely with higher bit rates
The motherboard is a bear of very little brain but its been solid through JRiver 17-20 and its passively cooled
There is no transcoding going on PCM<-> DSD, no DSP in chain but there is typically quad/di upsampling of PCM which I prefer JRiver to do
The problem is completely solved by reverting back to build 41.
I'm not particularly concerned at present but interested if others have similar experience.
I will get a Master licence and create an instance on a 2.3Ghz i7 Mac Mini and try and reproduce.

dtc · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2015, 07:48:52 am »

You might try a shorter Prebuffering time and turn off Do Not Play Silence. You might be having performance issues for the initial load. In is troubling that you only see it on the newer releases. I am still on 19.

d330b · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2015, 10:55:01 am »

I'm having the same problem as Redmodred except with 20.0.62. Can anyone help me out by telling me where to go to downgrade to 20.0.47 or whatever the most recent bug-free version is? All I found was Version 19 and older stuff. Are we the only two with this problem? Thanks!

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2015, 11:04:39 am »

I don't know if this still works since I have not had to go back any versions for a long time - but it used to be, that you could copy the download link and just change the numbers in the download address string (for example, from 20.0.062 to 20.0.42) to get an earlier version.

glynor · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2015, 12:37:40 pm »

I don't believe this problem is widespread. I'm not seeing any issues with current builds on any of my machines (and I have quite a few installations, including those of friends and at work). There are a few people reporting this, though, and where there's smoke there's probably fire. It would be useful for anyone who thinks they might have this issue (starting up with recent builds) to determine exactly when it started. If you can narrow down the change window, it can give a clue to the developers as to what part of the code to look at.

And, if going back to a build you know "used to be good" doesn't solve the problem, then you know the problem lies elsewhere:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Guide

I'll note that interaction with anti-virus can change over time. Either because of AV definition updates, or due to (otherwise harmless in isolation) changes to the MC code that triggers the heuristics of your security application. So, the AV test is always worthwhile, whenever you're seeing general performance problems (that aren't linked to a particular action or activity).

Quote from: d330b on January 25, 2015, 10:55:01 am

Can anyone help me out by telling me where to go to downgrade to 20.0.47

If you didn't save the installers (in your Downloads folder or whatever), the easiest way to get them is to search Interact. They post a new thread with the download link to each public build, and they generally don't take these download links down (aside from a pulled build for some terrible bug), even when they get old. So, search Interact. As suggested by kstuart recently, a good way to search is using the fact that the build threads typically end in "Available Here". So, Search Interact and use a search like:

If you do it right, this should give you a list of all of the MC20 build threads for Windows with the newest ones on top. You can go through and get whatever version you want, and install it.

If you find a difference, and a particular build "pair" where the problem doesn't exist and then does exist, repeatably, then this is useful information. The log package described in the Troubleshooting Guide linked above could also be useful to JRiver staff in finding the problem.

justpat · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2015, 01:06:16 pm »

Older bu still capable hardware: Foxconn g41 mobo, core 2 duo e8600 3.33, 4 gigs ram, amd radeon 4670 1gb, ht omega claro halo, win 8.1 pro 64.
This machine runs very well, fast, smooth and responsive, win 8.1 is a vast improvement over win7 and xp in performance. I recently updated from Media Center build 20.0.47 to 20.0.62, and the program became unusable, slow, unresponsive, very laggy scrolling, otherwise computer still ran great. No EASY way to roll back of course, not wanting to roll back my entire pc (restore point), anyway, did get back to 20.0.47 and Media Center runs well again. I have have turned off auto update for now to prevent any further problems, and will wait for the next update to repair this update. I want to reiterate, this machine, though comprised of older hardware runs very well, with no problems at all (A large ssd would be nice, waiting for further price drops). All else was fine, only media center trouble, not security or virus related. If it is not broken, do not fix it.

bluenose1 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2015, 02:22:19 pm »

Well Angrypat, my experience is like yours. Sailed along beautifully with 20.0.47 but after upgrading to 20.0.62 yesterday, Media center became slow and unresponsive in the manner you describe. I easily got back to 20.0.47 by reloading that version from the Download folder kept in the Update Channels tab in Help. Now Media center runs great again. My computer runs very well and all programs fast with no issues, so I have no idea what could cause the drastic change with MC version 20.0.62. I even use an SSD for My C Drive and another for my music files. I find it hard to believe the issue is because of my computer. I posted my problem yesterday in the forum which was started to announce the new version but so far no one has suggested a reasonable cause. I'm hoping someone more savvy than me can because while I can carry on with Ver. 47, I like to keep software up to date.

bluenose1 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2015, 02:57:51 pm »

Note to Glynor. First of all, thanks for following up on this problem. In an effort to help, I tried to download a previous version between .47 and .62 as you suggested and although I did get the list as per your instruction, I was unable to download any of those interim versions. The web site wouldn't let me no matter how I approached it. So I'm stumped. I hope someone else has better luck for you.

glynor · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2015, 02:59:22 pm »

As I mentioned, the log package would be helpful. This is covered in the Troubleshooting Guide I linked to above. I don't dispute that something odd is certainly happening with current builds for at least some people (as evidenced in this thread).

But, to get it fixed, they'll need to figure out under what conditions it occurs. So, to help them get to the bottom of it:

* The log zip files would help. Maybe one from 20.0.47 where everything works, and another from the current build that doesn't work well.

* Investigate the things that make impacted users "special". There is something that is similar about the setups in this thread that is triggering the condition to occur. We should try to figure that out.

* Try to isolate the exact build where the problems appeared. There's a big gap between 20.0.47 and 20.0.62. Do the search I posted above and start with 20.0.47 (which we know is okay) and then update one at a time, and figure out precisely where it broke. Was 20.0.48 okay? How about 20.0.54? You get the idea. If we can figure out what was being worked on at the time when it got broken, it'll be easier for them to find the issue.

Since this isn't universally happening, it is very difficult for them to fix the bug, if they can't reproduce it themselves (and test to see if a change they make does any good). So, if we can figure out the conditions (some setting, piece of hardware, or driver version you all share), then they can reproduce it. If we can't get a clear "common setting" with that, then narrowing down the "when" specifically might help them isolate the cause. Also, the logs will show behavior with latencies, so that may help diagnose the behavior.

So, to get this solved, we'd like some help. Thanks.

glynor · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2015, 03:03:15 pm »

Here are all the public download links:

http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200059.exe
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200061.exe
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200062.exe

glynor · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2015, 03:04:14 pm »

Some of them do indeed get access denied. Hmm... They didn't used to do that.

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2015, 03:09:45 pm »

Old versions aren't always available, so keep them if you think you'll need them.

bluenose1 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2015, 03:20:29 pm »

Quote from: glynor on January 25, 2015, 03:04:14 pm

Some of them do indeed get access denied. Hmm... They didn't used to do that.

I can't download any of the interim versions.

Hendrik · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2015, 03:33:39 pm »

In the interest of debugging this performance problem that seems to be affecting quite some users, I've restored a few more versions:

http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200048.exe
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200052.exe
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200057.exe

Some of the others in-between had serious issues which is why I'm reluctant to make them available again, however these should get us quite a bit closer already.
If you could determine in which of these the problem started, it may greatly help us to pin-point the problem.

One hunch I had, check your settings in Options -> Tree & View -> Web Browser -> Engine, if its set to "Chromium", does switching it to Internet Explorer change anything? (Only relevant if its set to Chromium right now)

bluenose1 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2015, 04:03:03 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on January 25, 2015, 03:33:39 pm

In the interest of debugging this performance problem that seems to be affecting quite some users, I've restored a few more versions:

http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200048.exe
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200052.exe
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200057.exe

Some of the others in-between had serious issues which is why I'm reluctant to make them available again, however these should get us quite a bit closer already.
If you could determine in which of these the problem started, it may greatly help us to pin-point the problem.

One hunch I had, check your settings in Options -> Tree & View -> Web Browser -> Engine, if its set to "Chromium", does switching it to Internet Explorer change anything? (Only relevant if its set to Chromium right now)

Hendrik. Thanks for the links. I worked my way down to Version 20.0.48. That's where the problem started for me. And maybe others. When in Ver .48 I also checked the web browser setting in as you suggested and it was set for Internet Explorer. I have restored MC to Ver .47 and everything is working fine again. Hope this helps.

Hendrik · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2015, 04:08:55 pm »

Thanks for testing. Could you perhaps enable logging and provide a log with one of the versions that are slow?
Also, does the problem happen when you're playing audio? Or even when not playing anything?

Can anyone else with the problem confirm these findings, 20.0.47 works fine, but as of 20.0.48 the performance problem starts?

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2015, 04:11:41 pm »

Is anyone with this problem using Jplay or another similar product?

bluenose1 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2015, 04:40:18 pm »

Quote from: JimH on January 25, 2015, 04:11:41 pm

Is anyone with this problem using Jplay or another similar product?

Not me. My system is pretty basic. I do have Squeezebox Media Server but it is not running and hasn't been for months. (Since I got JriverMC)

phusis · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2015, 05:21:59 pm »

Quote from: redmodred on January 23, 2015, 08:14:25 pm

I downloaded JRiver to trial it on 1/20. Version downloaded, 20.0.47. Got just about everything working, performance, great. THEN an automatic update to 20.0.61 occurred today. Performance is TERRIBLE, in Audio, simple scrolling up/down thru a library is simply broken. Takes several seconds to scroll up or down a page. Library has about 3000 albums in it.

Also tried 20.0.62, same unresponsive results....

What's up? (PC is plenty powerful, 12Gb RAM, 10,000 RPM HD, Intel i7-920 3.2Ghz, NVidia GTX690 video card...

Ran the JRiver Benchmark:
Math: 2263
Image: 4383
Database: 3433
TRMark: 3359

Okay, I reinstalled 20.0.47, scrolling up/down thru my library works perfectly Again. I can use 3D albums and it to works perfectly smooth and flowing images. Basically, mouse and keyboard inputs are extremely slow in newer version.

Quote from: bluenose1 on January 25, 2015, 04:03:03 pm

Hendrik. Thanks for the links. I worked my way down to Version 20.0.48. That's where the problem started for me. And maybe others. When in Ver .48 I also checked the web browser setting in as you suggested and it was set for Internet Explorer. I have restored MC to Ver .47 and everything is working fine again. Hope this helps.

I'm having the exact same problem described per above; post build 20.0.47 is where the slow and unresponsive "mouse and keyboard inputs" starts. Nothing in my HTPC setup has changed months prior to and after build 0.47. This has to be some issue within MC given that not a few othes have reported similarly. Needless to say I'm still going with version 0.47.

Hendrik · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2015, 05:23:37 pm »

So just to be perfectly clear, if you install 20.0.48 from the link above, the problem immediately starts, but with 20.0.47 its fine?
Can you enable logging with a build thats slow and click around in it a bit to replicate the slow-ness, and then upload the log?

bluenose1 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2015, 05:31:51 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on January 25, 2015, 05:23:37 pm

So just to be perfectly clear, if you install 20.0.48 from the link above, the problem immediately starts, but with 20.0.47 its fine?
Can you enable logging with a build thats slow and click around in it a bit to replicate the slow-ness, and then upload the log?

That is correct. And the slow response is present in Ver .48 and above even when nothing is playing. I did a log but I'm not sure how best to get it to you. I'm new at this. Guidance please.
ps the file is a zip file sitting on my desktop where MC put it.
thanks..

kstuart · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2015, 06:07:40 pm »

This brings up something I've wanted to ask for a long time...

Are there some changes in MC that are not reported in the "change log" ?

I often see problems reported that seem to have no connection with the changes reported in the change log.

In this case, there does not seem to be any change in 20.0.48 that could effect overall responsiveness... unless... some fixes are not included in the change log, or else some "general performance and efficiency improvement" changes are not included in the change log.

JimH · « **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2015, 06:27:48 pm »

We try to run a pretty open development process, in which you can participate and assist, but there are some things we consider private.

That said, almost everything we do is reported in the build threads.

glynor · « **Reply #28 on:** January 25, 2015, 07:15:19 pm »

Quote from: bluenose1 on January 25, 2015, 05:31:51 pm

I did a log but I'm not sure how best to get it to you. I'm new at this. Guidance please.

There are some suggestions here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Logging

Hendrik · « **Reply #29 on:** January 26, 2015, 01:36:36 am »

If the zip is small enough you can attach it here, otherwise mail it to logs at jriver dot com with a link to this thread in the message body, or upload it to something like Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, etc.

Trapper32 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 26, 2015, 05:35:25 am »

I am also suffering from this exact same problem... very frustrating.

bluenose1 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 26, 2015, 07:49:37 am »

Quote from: Hendrik on January 26, 2015, 01:36:36 am

If the zip is small enough you can attach it here, otherwise mail it to logs at jriver dot com with a link to this thread in the message body, or upload it to something like Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, etc.

Good morning. As suggested, I've just e-mailed my zip file to logs at jriver dot com with a link to this thread. Let me know if comes through ok. Hope it helps. If need be, I can do another log when I have time.

Hendrik · « **Reply #32 on:** January 26, 2015, 08:14:39 am »

Yes I got it, I'll start to go through it and hopefully find something.

I wish I could just reproduce it though, that would be so much easier. There must be some sort of common configuration that all of you have that may trigger it, or something.

As one test, can you turn off Media Network in the options and see if it changes anything?

JohnT · « **Reply #33 on:** January 26, 2015, 09:36:45 am »

If turning off Media Network doesn't help at all, another test would be turning off background auto-import. In Tools / Options / Library & Folder, uncheck "Run auto-import in background".

bluenose1 · « **Reply #34 on:** January 26, 2015, 10:00:47 am »

I reinstalled Build 20.0.48 and turned off Media Network with no change. I also unchecked "Run auto-import in background" with no change. It's slow to do these changes in that version. I put Ver. 47 back in and all is ok.
Anything revealed in my log? Has anyone else submitted one?

JimH · « **Reply #35 on:** January 26, 2015, 10:08:21 am »

Are you running an antivirus program? If so, what is it?

Hendrik · « **Reply #36 on:** January 26, 2015, 10:24:54 am »

I looked at every code change between 47 and 48, and I just don't see anything obvious. This sure is a mystery.
Would you be willing to share a Library Backup of your MC? That would give us your settings and whatnot, maybe that reveals something. You can create one in File -> Library -> Back Up Library. If so, mailing it directly to me at hendrik at jriver dot com would be ideal.

Also as a final question, which Skin do you use? Default (Noire)? Or anything specific?

JohnT · « **Reply #37 on:** January 26, 2015, 11:18:52 am »

This is out of left field, but do you have a floppy drive on your computer? We had another user report that the floppy drive is constantly seeking (light blinks) while Media Center is running.

bluenose1 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 26, 2015, 01:12:40 pm »

I was away for a while.
I've just sent a library backup to Hendrik.

As for other questions, my skin is set at Blue Steel. Norton is my antivirus program and my floppy drive is disconnected. Has been for a long time.

Matt · « **Reply #39 on:** January 26, 2015, 01:55:49 pm »

If you're having this problem, could you test this build:
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v20/latest/MediaCenter200063.exe

We haven't released it publicly yet, but it fixes an issue where we were always checking drive types. It might be related to this problem.

bluenose1 · « **Reply #40 on:** January 26, 2015, 02:17:43 pm »

Hallelujah! Horray! Build 20.0.63 was installed and MC is now working great for me.

Thank you Matt, Hendrik and all others who worked on this issue.

Many thanks,
BC
ps. Can I keep and use this build?

Hendrik · « **Reply #41 on:** January 26, 2015, 02:23:00 pm »

Hooray, its solved! Only took us like an entire day of 2-3 people looking over things.
Yes you can keep using this build, it will go public sooner or later (or be replaced by a 64 instead, depending on how development goes).

fitbrit · « **Reply #42 on:** January 26, 2015, 02:29:35 pm »

Great news. Sad that the OP didn't return to post - I hope he followed the discussion in lurk mode and can test the proposed solution.

bluenose1 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 26, 2015, 02:34:08 pm »

Hendrik, Thank you and cudos to you for good communication. I'm no tech expert so I was able to learn few useful things in this process.
Cheers

phusis · « **Reply #44 on:** January 26, 2015, 02:52:27 pm »

Indeed, the same here: build 20.0.63 seems to work flawlessly now with no "hanging" behavior!

Thanks for the quick fix, guys

Trapper32 · « **Reply #45 on:** January 26, 2015, 03:26:06 pm »

Working here also... thanks to all !

glynor · « **Reply #46 on:** January 26, 2015, 05:54:15 pm »

This build is now available in public in the regular spot.

redmodred · « **Reply #47 on:** January 27, 2015, 01:49:34 pm »

Yes, I'm the original poster, I've been following the discussion....

I'd mentioned I'd tried 20.0.62 on two (2) other machines, worked fine. I'd tried a re-install on the errant machine of 20.0.62. I found no improvement with any of the suggested configuration changes or turning off the background imports. SO, back to 20.0.47.....

Yesterday I re-installed 20.0.62 (sorry, I've been tied up with work..). Worked Perfectly, ah, so, "third times the charm" ? (I didn't change anything over last install, it just began working...)

Therefore no way for me to test or verify that 20.0.63 works for me as it has for others here.... (I was being to think it was some kind of glitch with the installation process itself)

JimH · « **Reply #48 on:** January 27, 2015, 01:52:31 pm »

I believe it's build 63 that fixes it.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=95111.0

DavidFRobb · « **Reply #49 on:** January 27, 2015, 03:58:28 pm »

>>>> I believe it's build 63 that fixes it.

I believe you are right. I installed 62 and experienced the OP's problem, downgraded to 47 and it was gone. Found this thread and upgraded to 63 and it is gone again.

Thanks a lot, that was easily resolved!

- Dave

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Performance problem with 20.0.61 (Read 17744 times)