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[RoderickGI]

The only solution currently for EPG in Australia is to use an external source to MC, and import the EPG into MC using the XMLTV format.

The best two sources for EPG data are Over The Air (OTA) for free and IceTV, which is a paid service, at $99 per year unless you catch a discount.

I use EPG Collector to collect OTA EPG data, then gather additional metadata from TheTVDB to add Season and Episode numbers where possible, and finally to produce an XMLTV file for import into MC. Astromo did a bit of a write-up on how to implement EPG Collector, but it probably needs some work as things have changed a bit. Note that I collect my EPG from the MHEG5 data stream (which is the Freeview Plus data) for most channels, as that stream has better quality data, and the EPG for almost all channels is available on any broadcast frequency, so it is faster to collect. If you use the EIT data stream (which is what non Freeview Plus devices such as TVs use), EPG Collector must collect the EPG data from each broadcast frequency that you receive channels on. The only exception in Melbourne in the Community Channel, Channel 31, which only has EIT data, so must be collected from its frequency.

I will start an Australian TV EPG thread at some stage, and write a Wiki article, but not until I have time, motivation, and the right mind set to document all the little twists and turns. At the moment I have other projects that need my attention.  


If you are into playing with Linux, you could try another source called Shepherd. I don't have the inclination to try that myself, but Astromo said he might take a look. Shepherd requires a Master Nerd of the first order to understand, and a good apprentice nerd just to implement it. Shepherd can be run on Windows, but requires Cygwin to provide a Linux like environment on Windows. Nerdy! (Yes, I have used it in the past. Just don't want to use it now.)

Link to thread on setting up EPG in Australia using IceTV -

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=101940.0

EPG Setup with EPG Collector

In the interim, refer here for advice:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=67992.msg558511#msg558511

[RoderickGI]

Just a quick heads up for anyone using OTA MHEG5 EPG data at the moment, October 31st 2015.

The MHEG5 is currently wrong, and list the programs exactly one day after they are actually due to be shown. i.e. Doctor Who, scheduled for 7:42pm on the 1st, is listed in the MHEG5 data as showing at 7:42pm on November 2st.

This warning is based on Melbourne data. Other regions may not have a problem.

The EIT data is still "correct", but includes many gaps in the schedule, and does not include Subtitles (Episode names), Season or Episode numbers. Basically, you will get some sort of program title, perhaps modified with a suffix such as " - Encore", but not much else, Automatic recording based on rules will be patchy at best.

This was all fixed quickly.

[astromo]

Just a quick heads up for anyone using OTA MHEG5 EPG data at the moment, October 31st 2015.

The MHEG5 is currently wrong

Agreed. All very irritating...  

Getting garbage along the same lines up Brisbane way, as well. EPGC has the ability to do limited time shifts but not a whole 24 hours from what I can fathom.

Giving Shepherd a go. Have done a default install loaded onto a little cubox running a Debian distro. This is what it grabbed this morning, if you're interested:
Shepherd output.xmltv
I'll set up a cron to do a daily grab and then make it available to the Windows PCs on my network.

I'm thinking of running xmltvdb to tidy up the TV listings but I haven't checked the grabbed data to see whether this is absolutely necessary.

I'm hoping this will work. Otherwise, I might have to fork out some $pondoolie$  for icetv.

EDIT:
Looks reasonable so far... I think   ?

For

<programme start="20151103110000 +1000" stop="20151103120000 +1000" channel="7mate.free.au">
    <title lang="en">Starsky &amp; Hutch</title>
    <sub-title lang="en">Little Girl Lost</sub-title>

there's this entry:

   <episode-num system="xmltv_ns">1 . 12 . </episode-num>

that ties up with:
http://thetvdb.com/?tab=episode&seriesid=78194&seasonid=14477&id=275003&lid=7

However, SBS  is not as nicely done:

  <programme start="20151116230000 +1000" stop="20151117000500 +1000" channel="sbshd.free.au">
    <title lang="en">Fargo</title>

...

    <episode-num system="onscreen">5</episode-num>

[RoderickGI]

So it is still wrong then? I was planning to check it yesterday, but didn't get around to it. I'm currently still using EIT and it is rubbish. Gaps, no subtitles, no season or episode or ability to look them up.

I am wondering what all the Freeview users are seeing. They use the MHEG5 stream as far as I know, so they must be seeing the same problem. Maybe this is a precursor to the change to Freeview Plus, which will use an internet sourced EPG.

I was considering trying Shepherd as well, even though it would be a lot of work. I subscribed to their email list, and I have seen that Shepherd still regularly has data problems, which seem to be complicated and take a while to fix.

<tantrum> I don't want to be continuously monitoring my EPG data source! </tantrum>

I'm certainly interested in how you go, and I'll look at your data. Maybe Steve could put a fix into EPGC for us. But even that would still require constant monitoring in case the problem was reversed.

Not happy. 

[RoderickGI]

There is now a fix for the dates being wrong in EPG Collector.

While the fixed version hasn't been publically released yet, Steve Bickell has made an early version of V4.3 available, and it fixes the date problem. In fact Steve promises me that it is a permanent fix as the method he uses to work out the dates has changed. See this thread: https://sourceforge.net/p/epgcollector/discussion/1125946/thread/5cc4e404/

So I am back to using MHEG5 data again, and hence have Series and Episode names again, and at least some Season and Episode numbers.

Note that Steve has just yesterday released V4.2 Fixpack 7, which does not include the dates fix.

[astromo]

There's another option out there:
http://freepg.tv

Apparently based on OzTivo EPG data but it's been tidied up. One to consider.

[RoderickGI]

I suppose it should be on the list, but I have been reluctant to even look at anything that used TIVO data because;
1. TIVO has pulled out of the Australian market.
2. The EPG data is compiled by individuals, and relies on them to pull the data together. I won't ever do that work myself, and I don't want to rely on other people to do it out of the goodness of their hearts, reliably.
3. The TIVO data is collected for a limited number of early Australian TIVO devices, and no-one else. When those devices fail, and their numbers dwindle, who will pull the EPG data together then?  (I guess that could be why they are offering the data via XMLTV files; To keep the user and contributor numbers up.)
4. I'm not sure about the legality of sourcing the data, with respect to copyright. While the data was restricted to a few dying TIVO device users, who cared. If every XMLTV user started using it, there may be problems.


I see that the announcement on Whirlpool was posted by the author of Big Screen EPG, Niall. I guess this source could extend the life of BSE a bit.

If you try it out, let us known what the data is like. Niall says it has xmltv_ns Season and Episode numbers, which is a start, but no repeat flags.

[astromo]

From this thread (with minor edits for brevity):
IceTV XMLTV EPG

IceTV is a professionally hand curated Australian XMLTV EPG feed that is updated throughout each day right up to primetime to ensure your recordings are not missed due to late programming changes. Importantly, accurate recording is optimised with repeat tags, series and episode numbers where available, and consistent show titles.

- IceTV is an accurate, curated guide.
- IceTV is optimised for recording TV.
- IceTV is updated throughout the day.
- IceTV's XMLTV EPG feed covers all regions in Australia.
- We advise a final refresh just before prime time.

To subscribe at the XMLTV only price go here:
https://store.icetv.com.au/xmltv

------------- How to Setup in MC (Thanks to JMONE) -------------

• Once you have subscribed go to https://www.icetv.com.au/xmltv-setup/ and login.
• Copy the link under "The link to use in your XMLTV enabled recorder is:"
• and in MC's Tools --> Options --> Television --> Load Program Guide --> Add --> XMLTV paste this link under "Load XMLTV results from this file" (and make sure "Run an executable to retrieve XMLTV data" is unchecked.

You may also want to increase the settings to "Automatically load the program guide everyday in the background" to minimum refresh time so you have the most up to date EPG.

[astromo]

RESERVED

EPG Setup with EPG Collector

In the interim, refer here for advice:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=67992.msg558511#msg558511

[astromo]

RESERVED

EPG Setup with IceTV and FreEPG (and any other simple download XMLTV files)

[astromo]

RESERVED

EPG Setup with Shepherd

[astromo]

RESERVED

EPG Enhancement Options

[zydeco]

Anxiously awaiting updates with details of best path to Australia EPG

[imugli]

Link to thread on setting up EPG in Australia using IceTV -

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=101940.0

[rpalmer68]

Link to new IceTV XMLTV only option.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,109995.0.html

[astromo]

Link to new IceTV XMLTV only option.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,109995.0.html

Already on it:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,100236.msg702066.html#msg702066

[jmone]

...and I updated my edit in the OP to use your formatting!

[Dantos]

Hi All

Australia
MC 26.0.30 64 bit
Win 10
HDHR tuner
OTA EPG

In these increasingly stay at home times I want to improve my Aussie TV EPG and hopefully include such things as TV series and episode info.

 "mc2xml" stopped working December 31, 2019 but I gather Percdata and EPG123 are unavailable in Oz.

There does appear to be a reasonable TV guide through "Freeview Plus" but this does not appear accessible to MC? Even using my samsung TV tuner directly, there is no record option (you can set reminders and enter catch up tv but not record using freeview plus AFAIK

I can't find a lot of recent Aussie info on MC and EPGs so I was wondering what people are using and recommending, paid subscriptions or otherwise.

thanks
David

[RoderickGI]

I'm using EPGCollector to collect OTA EIT data, and produce an XMLTV file, which I have MC import. It works fine, but the data isn't very good. However I do have EPGCollector set up to improve the data by doing additional metadata lookups. That helps, but much of the Australian EIT data is so bad that lookups can't add any data, like Season and Episode numbers. Sometimes it works though.

There used to be MHEG5 data available OTA, but Freeview removed that, or at least I think they did because it stopped working, and there were reports that Freeview were discontinuing it.

If you want really good data in Australia, sign up to IceTV. There is an XMLTV only subscription, which is a cheaper option than their full service. See https://store.icetv.com.au/xmltv

Thread describing the IceTV offer.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,109995.0.html


Oh wait, I already told you all this: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,121405.0.html

Get IceTV.

[Dantos]

If you want really good data in Australia, sign up to IceTV. There is an XMLTV only subscription, which is a cheaper option than their full service. See https://store.icetv.com.au/xmltv

Thread describing the IceTV offer.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,109995.0.html


Oh wait, I already told you all this: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,121405.0.html

Get IceTV.

Oh dear ,well that's embarrassing  I will re-read that thread. My apologies.

[David Sydney]

Hi folks http://www.xmltv.net/ is what I am using - pick your location and just copy the the URL into MC. Works fine for me!

David

[RoderickGI]

I thought that stopped working reliably years ago. I'll have to give it a try again.

[David Sydney]

Actually there is no www on the fron of the address. I am in Brisbane and I get my feed from http://xmltv.net/xml_files/Brisbane.xml. For some reason there is no front end site like http://xmltv.net/ but it does work. Substitute your location..give it a try PS. It's free as far as I know.



David

[astromo]

Good tip David.

Works for me too. It's cool that the radio stations are included.

Has anyone been able to merge xmltv files?

I'm thinking of combining the xmltv.net data with IceTV to get the best of their respective strengths.

It's not a function (I think) embedded within MC. What I'd like to do is combine (to my personal preferences, i.e. pick and choose) data from 2 different xmltv files.

I think EPG Collector has the capability to do this but if I can get an inside track, I'd be keen to avoid excess effort. I'll check things out on my own anyway and if I turn up something useful will report back.

 

[RoderickGI]

EPG Collector does have the capability, but you wouldn't want to add that extra layer unless you really had to.

You should just be able to set up two EPG sources in MC, one for IceTV that only includes the channels they provide, and one for all the other channels via xmltv.net. As long as there is no overlap you won't get duplicate EPG data for any programs on a channel, date and time. Duplicate program records would be bad.

I believe Jmone does the above with IceTV and OTA for the additional channels. I haven't done it myself.

[jmone]

Yup - I run the OTA EPG everynight at 3am and it fills in basic stuff for all channels, then ICETV every 2 hours.  This way I get some EPG info for all channels and great EPG info for the main ones.  I'll test the idea with xmltv.

[jmone]

Had a look at the data from xmltv.net.  Seems pretty good, so to test I've setup a profile for them (as well as OTA and ICETV). 

If Yaobing is looking at this post, then it would be great if you could set both "Repeat" and  "Starting Times" for each EPG individually so they don't clash & it enables you to load EPG data in the order you want. 

Anyway, for this test:
- Turned OFF the OTA EPG
- Turned ON the XMLTV.NET for once a day @ 3am
- Turned ON the iceTV for every 2 hours
- Cleared my EPG (so it is all blank)

This should result in a combined MC EPG with:
- IceTV sourced EPG data for 14 days on the channels it supports being updated ever 2 hours PLUS
- XMLTV.NET EPG data for 7 Days on the extra channels that they support updated once per day.

I'll be able to tell tomorrow if this worked out as expected. 

[jmone]

I'm guessing a simple change like this work to make in what order and how often to get different EPG data loaded into MC for a combined EPG.  It's not channel specific but would give a priority on what gets loaded then overwritten.

[RoderickGI]

Did you only set up to download the missing channels on XMLTV.net?

If not, once they have both populated, check to see if you are getting duplicate programs in the Guide on common channels. I think that was an issue in the past, when two EPG sources were used. I still haven't looked at the XMLTV.net to see if excluding channels is possible. In fact, it is so long since I set up EPG with EPGCollector in MC, I will have to relearn it!

[jmone]

I think there is something better...... just testing now .... and it is all in MC

[jmone]

I think I have this sussed out.  I'm now successfully combining EPG Data on a per TV Channel across 3 different services: OTA EIT data, xmltv.net, and IceTV.  This is what I've found (see pics):

There is a field in MC called "TV XMLTV ID" that is used to match with the XML EPG details for a channel.  You can edit this in the GUI, by slowly double clicking of each cell (note: you can also create a view using ([Media Type]=[TV]).  Looking at the TVXML feeds and how it is populated in MC, in Sydney Australia the match in this field is thankfully unique on the service (which makes it all work in MC):
- DVB-T OTA = Empty
- xmltv.net = #.yourtv.com.au (same as the TV Channel # with ".yourtv.com.au" added)
- IceTV = # (sometime it is the same as the TV Channel #, but it sometimes some other #)

Here is one way to set it up with the Priority of IceTV then xmltv.net then DVB-T OTA
- EPG Services:  Make sure you have a profile for each service you want to pull EPG Data from in "TV Options --> Load Program Guide --> Add"
- Reset your TV Setup using "TV Options --> Setup -->" and then check "Clean up existing television channels" & "Clean up existing television guide data" and then it should perform a scan getting all the latest channel info.  If it asked to load an EPG then use the OTA DVB-T one for now.
- Add the "Next" lowest priority EPG (xmltv.net):   "TV Options--> Load Program guide-->"  Now just make sure the one you want to load next (eg xmltv.net) is the only one Checked and "Run Selected profiles now" and on the next screen let it do an "Auto Match --> Use New".  This will populate the "TV XMLTV ID" field with values like "##.yourtv.com.au" that xmltv.net supports
- Repeat for the next EPG Service (for me it is Ice TV) and this will then populate the "TV XMLTV ID" field with values like "##.yourtv.com.au" that xmltv.net supports.  As this is a subset it will leave some "##.yourtv.com.au" values and overwrite others is "##"
- Manually Edit the "TV XMLTV ID" field for the channels you want to change as either Blank (for DVB-T) as I did for Ch 203 and 204 or ## for IceTV, or ##.yourtv.com.au
- Make sure you have "In over-the-air EPG scan, save programs for channels with empty XMLTV IDs only" is checked

[JimH]

Nice work.  Thanks for posting.

[RoderickGI]

I have wondered where XMLTV.net got its data from, and have always wondered about yourtv.com.au, what its source was, who was running it, and so on. It has always seemed complete and accurate. I should have looked into it more. But my OTA TV watching has dropped off quite a bit, so the EPG I had was good enough.

Ah, that is right, it is the Nine Network, who I believe is still responsible for accumulating EPG data for all channels from all broadcasters. I believe I tried to create an account with them some time back to get access to that data, but it didn't work. It seems XMLTV.net is collecting that data. Actually, I see XMLTV.net has multiple sources. All good, as it is for personal use. Our use, and XMLTV.net is non-commercial. So it should be a good source to use into the future.

I note that "SBS Radio 1", "SBS Radio 2", "SBS Chill" and "SBS Arabic24" are duplicated on two channels each. I have noticed that in channel scans in the past. Some clean up to do unless those channels are actually playing something different.

I should really make the effort to switch across to XMLTV.net altogether. Maybe a small project for tonight.

[jmone]

Yeah we also use Live TV from MC a lot less but that may change back once we have to leave Foxtel Cable (our area has just turned on NBN FTTC and I've got a Tech Change in to go to FTTP and don't know if they will use the Coax to pull the Fibre).  Time will tell on this one.

[RoderickGI]

I have copper and coax in my conduit, so if I ever got fibre pulled I would want them to use the copper. It is useless now anyway. Terribly degraded. But should still be strong enough to pull fibre through.

I would love to have FTTP but I can't see that happening while coax still works.

[jmone]

My quote is about $3,300 to go from FTTC to FTTH .... I've paid now I'm waiting for the contractor to contact me.  I'm on a battle axe block so I'm a bit worried if they can pull it in one of the exisitng conduits else it will cost a bomb! 

[David Sydney]

WWhoosh - over the top of my head... What is the objective of setting up mutiple EPG feeds like this?

[astromo]

jmone, thanks heaps for filling in a lot of gaps. This will take me a bit to digest but it sounds like you've nailed it home. Well done.. applause to you.. 

David, the point of consolidating multiple EPG feeds is to populate the MC EPG with the best data on offer.

The ICETV EPG is curated regularly (but comes at a cost), so is arguably the best data source but it doesn't cover all channels. The idea that I've got is to use another source, e.g. the xmltv.net data, to fill in the gaps.

However, as jmone illustrates, it's a bit involved to set up but importantly it's entirely doable.

[RoderickGI]

I've converted over to XMLTV.net now. Poor EPG Collector has been abandoned. 

XMLTV.net does have really good coverage, and as shown in Jmone's posts above, only a few radio stations don't have any EPG. I think you missed one though Jmone. I don't get EPG for 203 and 204 as you noted, plus 29. I don't listen to radio via MC very often, and certainly not using the Guide, but maybe I should, so I might set up OTA for those channels.

The IceTV EPG data is far more complete than XMLTV.net though, with better descriptions and other features. But at the moment XMLTV.net will do fine. It loads way faster than EPG Collector ever did.

The channel duplication, mostly due to historical changes and the requirement to support SD TVs on the original channels (2, 7, 9, 10), make selection of which channels to hide a bit of a pain. The various Video and Audio Formats broadcast add to the fun. I've kept all the HD channels and hidden all the SD channels, where the programming is identical. I even found there were some more new channels and changes I hadn't picked up earlier. I now have the same list of channels as shown in Jmone's post above.

I've now updated my TV Channel Guide to not show Radio channels, and created a new Guide just for Radio. I've also made all the HD channels Favourites, so now my Favourites Guide shows only HD programs. Neat. I just need to get my Movies Guide working, which requires a change in MC. XMLTV.net doesn't flag movies just as "Movie", but adds more information such as "Television Movie" and "Cinema Movie", so MC doesn't pick up that the programs are movies and leaves them flagged as "TV Shows".

Getting there though. The flexibility of MC is amazing. 

Thanks for originally pointing out XMLTV.net David.
Thanks to Jmone for biting the bullet and implementing it, then documenting the process, and so prompting me to do the same.

[jmone]

@RoderickGI - I've taken out channels 28,29,203,204 from the EPG collectors and just use EIT for these.  Not that it really matters given I really don't use these channels but hey it is nice to see stuff filled in

The bottom line is if you want a Free EPG then xmltv.net is the way to go.  If you are happy to pay for an EPG then iceTV is the most complete.  Both are very quick to load.  EIT is a fallback.  Combining all three works well and gives the best overall EPG in MC to date.

[astromo]

@RoderickGI - I've taken out channels 28,29,203,204 from the EPG collectors and just use EIT for these.  Not that it really matters given I really don't use these channels but hey it is nice to see stuff filled in

The bottom line is if you want a Free EPG then xmltv.net is the way to go.  If you are happy to pay for an EPG then iceTV is the most complete.  Both are very quick to load.  EIT is a fallback.  Combining all three works well and gives the best overall EPG in MC to date.

Fantastic stuff jmone. The only bump in the road that I had to negotiate was to set up the TV Stations view at the root of the viewing tree. I started using a sub-view of Video which gave me a blank void.

I'm with you that I don't expect to make full use of the data but if it's easy to get, then you never know when it will come in handy.

Thanks again. This offers user flexibility, which should end up in more happy users.. Cheers .. 

[jmone]

Sounds good!  ...and yes I had setup my View at the top level years ago so had probably forgotten about the nesting issues (it is also an easy way to just tune to a channel)

[RoderickGI]

I have a "Tools" View group for such maintenance Views where I don't want any top level restrictions.

But you can also just uncheck the "Use parent scheme rules for file display" to have MC look across all databases.

[RoderickGI]

I ran the OTA and XMLTV.net EPG collection last night to see if I could combine them, using the OTA EIT EPG just for channels 29, 203, and 204. It didn't go so well.

I tried to simulate having both run daily to just fill the channels that had missing EPG, but they both ran at the same time and as the OTA collection takes much longer than the XMLTV.net collection, the OTA collection overwrote everything the XMLTV.net did.

So to make it work I could run the OTA collection on a schedule, and then manually turn that off, then manually run the XMLTV.net collection only to overwrite the EPG for all the channels it knows about. I won't be doing that. Not for three Radio channel EPGs. Or I could run all collections overnight as per your process Jmone, with the OTA repeated every 24 hours and the XMLTV.net repeated so that the MC EPG was updated before it was required in the morning. But that seems like a bit of overkill, because the OTA collection takes so long, and in between the first run and the repeat of the XMLTV.net collection, the EPG would be bad. That would likely trigger a lot of activity around TV recordings, adding them then removing them, then adding them again, etc., because of the change in EPG data for most channels.

It would be nice to have more control, and possibly not wake the PC overnight, but do it early morning.

Also the process you described Jmone works for two EPG sources, but it wouldn't work for three EPG sources. If you wanted to populate the EPG with the best data for all channels you would need OTA, XMLTV.net, and IceTV, which can't be controlled fully at the moment.



So to make it work automatically we would definitely need the changes you have suggested in Reply #27. i.e. Provide a "Start At" and "Repeat" time period for each EPG collection method/Mode.

I would also like to see the ability to select which channels each EPG collection method/Mode will collect for, so that I can limit the OTA collection to just the few channels I require, as that would reduce the processing time significantly.



BTW Jmone, this isn't correct:

There is a field in MC called "TV XMLTV ID" that is used to match with the XML EPG details for a channel.  You can not edit this in the GUI, but you can edit this if you add a View using ([Media Type]=[TV]).

You can edit the "TV XMLTV ID" field in the MC GUI using the Manage Channels dialogue. Just hover your mouse over an "TV XMLTV ID" value and a popup will tell you how. It requires two slow clicks, and is a little tricky to get right sometimes, but works fine.


PS: With a decent EPG now available in my MC installation, I am looking at watching more OTA TV again. Still being in Lockdown, I have just about exhausted the YouTube videos I want to watch, and other sources as well. Some good old programs from our Australian broadcasters are now looking better! 

[JimH]

So to make to work automatically we would definitely need the changes you have suggested in Reply #27. i.e. Provide a "Start At" and "Repeat" time period for each EPG collection method/Mode

Or rank them so MC knows what order to run them in.

[RoderickGI]

Or rank them so MC knows what order to run them in.

Ranking them, or re-ordering then up or down, makes sense. It would help in the readability of the dialogue.

But in the case or OTA, there needs to be time (~30 minutes) for it to finish before the next collection starts. Currently it appears that multiple collections can run at the same time, and as OTA take much longer than XMLTV.net (seconds), OTA ends up overwriting the XMLTV.net EPG.

If they were ranked and only one could run at a time, that might be sufficient.

[Yaobing]

Currently, OTA scanning is always done after all online modes finish, precisely because OTA takes much longer time.

Therefore OTA will always overwrite other data, if you let it update a particular channel.  You either allow OTA to run on all channels, and overwrite other data,  or you can specify that OTA only run on channels that XMLTV.net does not - check the option "In over-the-air EPG scan, save programs for channels with empty XMLTV IDs only".

So if I understand you correctly, you want OTA to start and finish early, so that XMLTV.net can overwrite OTA.  That way if XMLTV.net is missing data here and there, you already have OTA data.  But as long as XMLTV.net has data, it trumps OTA data. 

There is actually a work-around for this situation currently.  Instead of picking a global start time at a specified hours and minutes, you can just pick "Default" from the Hours drop-down list.  What it means is next start time will happen x hours from the scan that just has finished now.  With that, say if you choose 24 hours as your interval for both, you can manually start OTA scan at 3 pm and let it finish.  It will run again at 3 pm the next day.  Similarly, you can run XMLTV.net at 10 pm manually.  The next day it will happen again at 10 pm.  This approach however has the tendency  to push the start time later and later (because for example the online collection fails due to network condition, it may retry later, causing the next collection time to be later too).  If you separate the two schedules sufficiently far apart, this might not be an issue.

[Yaobing]

Multiple collections do not run simultaneously.  They are run one by one, with OTA last.

[RoderickGI]

Okay, thanks Yaobing. The XMLTV.net collection is so fast it appeared like they ran together.

I didn't set the option "In over-the-air EPG scan, save programs for channels with empty XMLTV IDs only" because I didn't really understand that "save programs" meant "save EPG data for programs", and I didn't look it up.

I shall test again.

[jmone]

Thanks Gents:
- Turns out I have "In over-the-air EPG scan, save programs for channels with empty XMLTV IDs only" already checked (so explains why my setup works with Multiple XML Guilds + OTA).
- Good tip on the "Slow" double click to edit the "TV XMLTV ID" (I'll fix my post)

I still think the idea "suggested in Reply #27. i.e. Provide a "Start At" and "Repeat" time period for each EPG collection method/Mode" makes it much easier for users to get their head around how to schedule multiple EPG loading.