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[Awesome Donkey]

You'll have to wait until Microsoft fixes it.

[amsco15]

You'll have to wait until Microsoft fixes it.

The unfortunate truth of that statement, for us loyal JRiver users, is Microsoft may not fix the problem or the fix may be many months away.  Oh well, 1st world problems.

[millst]

Yeah, I've been waiting for a while. I was hopeful when they released the November update, but that was quickly crushed.

-tm

[ssands]

I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that Vista was better baked than Win 10. (I understand the improvements in Win 10, but these issues should have never been present in a production release).

[Awesome Donkey]

The unfortunate truth of that statement, for us loyal JRiver users, is Microsoft may not fix the problem or the fix may be many months away.  Oh well, 1st world problems.

Yep, likely months away with the first Redstone build... assuming they fix it. I'm wondering if there's an open bug for this on MS's Insider forums?

[glynor]

As I said earlier... Perhaps they shouldn't have canned their entire QA department a few months before releasing it...  

That's one way to stop getting bug reports, I guess. But not really the best way, I imagine.

[RoderickGI]

If it is affecting recent Adobe products, in addition to CS5, then I'm sure there are some heavy discussions going on somewhere. Not that Microsoft has ever been particularly inclined to listen to Adobe.

[Awesome Donkey]

I'm sure there's discussions on Steam's groups and forums too, not sure.

[Irtelli]

I've also had problems with the Start menu crashing; I was silly enough to upgrade to Windows 10 as soon as I could, and concur that there are many programs that are responsible for this happening, especially the Adobe suite.

HOWEVER: since the latest Windows 10 update my right click context menu in the start menu had also stopped working. So I disabled every single context menu entry in CC Cleaner and guess what was causing the problem? JRiver context menus. Now that these have been deleted from the system the start menu right click entries (Control Panel, Programs and features etc.) now work.

Hopefully this can help some people, if not solve the overall problem that Windows 10 has with compatibility. 

[JimH]

... I disabled every single context menu entry in CC Cleaner ...

"cleaner" type programs cause a lot of problems.

[MusicBringer]

There are some Win10 shortcuts that may help you get you where you want to be without a working "Start Button"

• Windows Key + X = brings up the start button "right click menu"
• Windows Key + E  = opens Windows File Explorer
• Windows Key + i  = opens Settings
• Windows key + S = opens Search (then any keyboard "letter" will bring up the App starting with that letter)

Most everything you would need the Start Button for can be accessed without it.

CountryBumkin, those tips are excellent I use them all, well all except the "then any keyboard "letter" will bring up the App starting with that letter"
I didn't know that one.
It was worth getting up this morning just for that!

btw any news on a forthcoming fix from M$ or are they still blaming user action and burying their heads in the sand?

thanks,

[BryanC]

Just popping in to vent my frustrations regarding Windows 10.

Restarting explorer every day on my server/HTPC to access the start menu has become such a PITA, I ended up just writing a batch file to automate it rather than going through task manager per usual. Of course just pinning a script to the Windows taskbar has apparently become a herculean feat in and of itself. I tried copying the path to my script from the Explorer url bar (as I've done countless times) and selected "Copy address as text"--it ended up only copying the directory name (gee, thanks!). And you can't pin scripts, only shortcuts to cmd.exe that call the script.

So now even after I restart explorer, the first time I try to open the settings window it will briefly show and then close itself, forcing me to reopen it.

This is after a fresh installation (that I was forced to do prior to MS allowing W7 and W8 licenses to activate W10 directly and after a hardware upgrade that deactivated my license, leaving me with no other option but to reformat). The 1511 update also broke about 8 of my store apps (including the store itself) so I had to go through a permissions gauntlet to get access to C:\Program Files\WindowsApps to restore them from a different computer.

I'm honestly done with it. I was done with it a few months ago since I've just stopped using it completely other than for my HTPC/Theater View. As much as I love Theater View I'm a long weekend away from nuking my HTPC/server, installing Fedora, and using Kodi for playback and my 10-foot interface (with MC serving my library to other linux clients and my android devices).

I never had problems like this before with Windows. I used to be a "use whatever works for the task" person, but if asked I would actively dissuade someone from using it nowadays. Injecting Win10 upgrade prompts into Win7 and Win8 via Windows update is unfathomable to me. As great as MC is, it's not worth fighting my OS over.

Let me just say that the day Theater View is working in linux will be a splendid day indeed.

[glynor]

Restarting explorer every day on my server/HTPC to access the start menu has become such a PITA

I understand if you're done with it, but that is not normal. I've certainly seen the issue, but it is occasional. I'd say I have it happen maybe 2 times per month (on the machine where it happens most frequently).

I think something else is seriously wrong with your installation. Also, this:

The 1511 update also broke about 8 of my store apps (including the store itself) so I had to go through a permissions gauntlet to get access to C:\Program Files\WindowsApps to restore them from a different computer.

I had something similar on one particular installation (which was an upgrade from a clean Windows 8.1 install). I mentioned it in one of the other similar threads on this topic... I went through about two days worth of troubleshooting on it, and never really got it working right, so I ended up nuking it and doing a clean install, and it cleared it up completely (and the issue has never returned).

More evidence that something went wrong in your initial install, I guess.

[Awesome Donkey]

Honestly I haven't encountered the issue in a good while now (perhaps a month or so).

[Arindelle]

Like BryanC, I still have this happen all of the time, but I think I've narrowed it down some, as I know can provoke the explorer hang on demand.

On my installs, I need to use Chrome, but also have to use Firefox, Safari, IE, to check on websites I work on.  I have tons (way too many) pluggins in Chrome that I think are incompatible (ones that find fonts on a page, webdev stuff using flash, pop-up blockers that you can script, java stuff, etc;). I found that removing all Windows store apps helped -- I have no desire to go Windows Store and don't need weather and their news services. I though still that it had some compatibility issues with the programs themselves as I was often having problems with the large creative suite programs from Adobe for PC.  

I think now though it is more of a combo of incompatible browser extensions and calling Chrome from within those programs that I though t were causing the hang. If I set firefox to default and don't load any extensions/addons. my CS programs don't lock up explorer when i use "publish to web functions" for example.

Another example, I am constantly looking up stuff via links in JRiver, one site for lyrics has a pop-up that is stopped by an adblocker called uBlock Origin. The PC will still work but, bingo no "start menu". Same with a link to a short film that my nephew worked on that's on a site that if you click on the window without a good blocker, you get all sort of new windows opening up or audio pages telling you how to win at Roulette or get a green card by lottery! So install the blocker and again, Bingo, time to restart explorer. I use Dashlane for password management and paying on some sites using it to fill in my details, can cause this too.

For my HTPC I don't care too much, as I only use 3 or 4 programs on it anyways, and these I have links for in my taskBar. I still can use Explorer, so I just don't use the Start menu much .. right click and I shut it down. On my work station though, until I have to live with it and just keep a lot of programs open so as not to need the "Start Menu"

I should nuke this and do a clean install, but I need these extensions (or the time to figure out the ones to replace, and trying to figure out what not to reinstall just seems like a real lot of work right now for me.)

Not sure if this will help other people, but if using chrome, play with disabling extensions. See if going to certain website that cause pop-ups causes explorer to hang.  If so avoid them. When not using edge or IE, disable Microsoft store and their apps. See if that helps some.

Oh by the way there is a distinct possibility I don't know what the hell I'm talking about too  

BTW --- what is the easiest way to get a legit copy of Win10. I just went through the free "migration" process, and I heard you have to call Microsoft ... I do not want to do that and wait for 50 minutes while they figure out if I am a "legitimate" user or not.  I certainly do not want to use Win8 and reinstalling Win7 and waiting a couple of years like I did between XP and 7 doesn't seem to be an option anymore. Certainly not going to pay for CD version of Win10 now.  

[AndrewFG]

BTW --- what is the easiest way to get a legit copy of Win10. I just went through the free "migration" process, and I heard you have to call Microsoft ... I do not want to do that and wait for 50 minutes while they figure out if I am a "legitimate" user or not.

You don't have to call MS. At least I did not have to. You may have to submit an approval request, but it works online, and it is largely automated, pretty fast, and only in exceptional cases is it referred to a human chat person. Quite painless..

[Arindelle]

You don't have to call MS. At least I did not have to. You may have to submit an approval request, but it works online, and it is largely automated, pretty fast, and only in exceptional cases is it referred to a human chat person. Quite painless..

thank you Andrew, good to know. I'll look into that 

[Irtelli]

"cleaner" type programs cause a lot of problems.

Well, in this case CC Cleaner appears to have solved a problem.

[glynor]

CCleaner isn't like most of them, and is fine, as long as you don't mess with the portions in the Registry section without knowing what you're doing.

It is the rare exception to the rule. Most "registry cleaners" are junk, and provide few more benefits than snake oil (and often trash things along the way).

[Awesome Donkey]

CCleaner isn't like most of them, and is fine, as long as you don't mess with the portions in the Registry section without knowing what you're doing.

This. I only use the "Application Paths Issue" portion manually. Anything else is potentially risky.

[AlanDistro]

I've been having this issue since upgrading to Windows 10 a little over six months ago. I can confirm that it only happens after I open JRiver. I can use my computer three days straight and the start menu is fine. I open JRiver and about 20 minutes later the Start button is hanging. I'm considering just building a separate small server for JRiver only as it's really really frustrating. I've been listening to so much less music lately.

[CountryBumkin]

Another update released today (KB3139907 and KB3140743), on March 1 (no details from MS on what it fixes yet). 
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3140743
Maybe this is the fix we've been waiting for.

[millst]

KB3140743 - Improved reliability in numerous areas, including OS and Windows Update installation, startup, installing and configuring Windows for the first time, authentication, resuming from hibernation, shutdown, kernel, Start menu, storage, Windows Hello, display modes, Miracast, AppLocker, Internet Explorer 11, Microsoft Edge browser, network connectivity and discovery, and File Explorer.

They post it here:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/update-history-windows-10

-tm

[zeusl]

Another update released today (KB3139907 and KB3140743), on March 1 (no details from MS on what it fixes yet). 
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3140743
Maybe this is the fix we've been waiting for.

It did not get better for me, unfortunately... 

[cpunit]

I just want to add me to the list of users who have the same problem.
I have 3 win10 machines and all have the same problem, only when the MC has been running for a while.
It has not helped by turning off the shell integration.

+1

Windows 10 Start Menu Slow + Search box to freeze

Only when the MC(v18.0.212) has been play music for a while 

[JimH]

+1

Windows 10 Start Menu Slow + Search box to freeze

Only when the MC(v18.0.212) has been play music for a while 

Please try MC21.

[amsco15]

21 doesn't change anything regarding this issue.

[glynor]

It did not get better for me, unfortunately... 

I've actually seen no further instances since the patch.

[millst]

I thought it was gone, too, but then I watched a movie Sunday and it happened.

-tm

[Awesome Donkey]

Has anyone reported it to Microsoft? I'll see if I can find similar bug reports (e.g. Steam with the same issue).

[millst]

I don't have time to find them now, but I've seen some [long] threads on Microsoft servers about the issue. I remember going through a bunch of suggested fixes that didn't pan out. The usual stuff like sfc and dism as well as a bunch of other random ones e.g. turning off live tiles.

-tm

[AndrewFG]

Windows 10 Start Menu Slow + Search box to freeze

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I get these problems also on my PC which does NOT have MC running on it. So IMHO the issue has nothing to do with MC. It is a Windows problem pure and simple..

[imeric]

Was wondering where that was coming from and never thought it had something to do with MC...Good to know as I too am experiencing the issue especially on my HTPC and obviously this is where I use MC the most...

I read above switching to the "Classic" Start menu is a workaround... Is it still the case? Wouldn't mind doing this...

[terrym@tassie]

I read above switching to the "Classic" Start menu is a workaround... Is it still the case? Wouldn't mind doing this...

The 3 workarounds I know are: Install and use Classic Shell (my preferred option), restart the Explorer process using task manager or log out/in on Windows itself to restore the start menu.

Losing the Start Menu occurs 100% of the time I use MC to play videos (even after all the recent updates).

[DJLegba]

Right-click on the Start button brings up a usable menu when this happens.

[amsco15]

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I get these problems also on my PC which does NOT have MC running on it. So IMHO the issue has nothing to do with MC. It is a Windows problem pure and simple..

AndrewFG, I couldn't respect your opinion more.  You've helped me and many, many others here with your very deep knowledge and skill.  However, I've never experienced this problem on any Windows machine other then those running MC.  I use a Windows 10 machine eight hours a day at work running loads of engineering software: AutoCAD, Revit, AGi32, BSD SpecLink-e...  Never once has this problem happened on my machine at work.  At home, it also never happens until I use MC.  Happened on my Win 10 laptop and now on my new, top of the line, Win 10 tower but only after using MC.  Just my experience.

[Awesome Donkey]

It is a Windows problem pure and simple.

This. I haven't experienced this issue in a good while now, but if I do I just restart explorer.exe and it fixes it. Let's hope Redstone fixes this.

[glynor]

I use a Windows 10 machine eight hours a day at work running loads of engineering software: AutoCAD, Revit, AGi32, BSD SpecLink-e...  Never once has this problem happened on my machine at work.  At home, it also never happens until I use MC.  Happened on my Win 10 laptop and now on my new, top of the line, Win 10 tower but only after using MC.  Just my experience.

The primary bug experienced by many users in Windows 10 seems to be triggered when you run any application that uses "non-standard Windows controls" (meaning, something written that doesn't use a standard Windows Forms type of layout). This certainly includes MC, which doesn't use any drawing controls tied to the OS, but that same thing applies to tons of other applications. Some other applications that use nonstandard controls include: Adobe Creative Suite, Steam, Firefox, and Chrome.

However, there does seem to be some variation, as I've:

* Seen the issue intermittently on a wide variety of Windows 10 installs, whether they have MC installed or not. Note: I work in corporate IT and we're testing Windows 10 on a huge variety of platforms. My personal experience probably includes using about 50 instances of W10 that have no copy of MC installed.

* Saw the issue far less frequently on some systems than others. In particular, my vmware VMs seem to be (for whatever reason) quite robust and don't have the issue very frequently. This makes me wonder if particular GPU drivers might be involved.

* Have not seen it happen even one time since I installed the last round of Microsoft patches. I have 4 different w10 boxes I use with MC extremely regularly (including my HTPC which plays video multiple times every day) and it hasn't happened at all in weeks and weeks.

In any case, I understand how you feel, but there is literally nothing JRiver can do about this. They have no control over the explorer.exe process, unless they're injecting code into it or something (like WindowBlinds and other shell replacement applications do), which they're not. Even if MC is triggering the condition (which I do not dispute) they can't fix bugs in other people's code. Microsoft needs to fix this. It is very similar to the situation with bluescreen crashes, I've described before:

So, what is happening is akin to this: The OS has a sign that says "Pull this lever if you want to do X." MC is pulling the lever, but instead of what is expected to happen, the whole building is falling down. Did MC cause the building to fall down?  No, whomever designed and implemented the lever did!

That was more about bluescreen crashes, which MC absolutely cannot "cause" (aside from the WDM driver), but it applies pretty much equally here. Windows has a bug. It seems like they're working on fixing it, because it has definitely improved for me and many other users, but it seems like there may be still work to do.

You might also want to check for GPU driver updates (or try rolling back to an older, more stable, version).

[amsco15]

glynor, thanks for your patient and detailed explanation.  It makes sense up to the point that for me only MC triggers the error on my machine.  I regularly use two of the four examples of nonstand control applications you referenced: Steam and Chrome.  It's certainly a first world problem and the trick mentioned here to restart explorer does work.

Thanks again to all the "experts" here.  I always learn a great deal!

[glynor]

I, personally, never saw Steam trigger it, but I saw reports from all over the interwebs about that. I don't use Chrome because Google knows enough about me thanks.

Adobe Creative Suite could trigger it for me every single time on basically every machine I have with Windows 10. But it is gone for me now. I haven't had to restart Explorer in quite some time.

I really think there is some kind of driver interaction going on (or maybe anti-virus or some other "system" level thing). That would explain the variability.

[Awesome Donkey]

I'd bet on graphics drivers being the trigger, personally.

[imeric]

Maybe we should have a Poll going
My second PC where I make all my tag changes etc...doesn't seem to have the issue and has an ATI Card....

That would be a first...Having issues with nvidia vs ATI...I had so many issues with ATI cards in the past...But that goes back 10-15 years ago

[amsco15]

I'd bet on graphics drivers being the trigger, personally.

Could be but don't know.  My laptop was a Dell Inspiron with an onboard graphics card.  I ran my new tower with the built in i7 graphics and now have an GTX970.  The problem occurred with all three setups.

[TheGreatBiguini]

I also have not seen this problem since the last round of MS patches. Keeping my fingers crossed. But: As I and a few others have commented, Windows Classic Shell is a more than acceptable workaround (admittedly it should not be necessary but....)

EDIT: I spoke too soon. Just had it happen on my main server again. Oh well, Classic Shell to the rescue...

[rudyrednose]

For me, it is weird.  
At home, we run Windows 10 and MC 21 on all our computers (apart from 2 machines running Server 2012R2, one of them the JR Media Server).
All computers are a bare disk fresh install of Windows 10 Pro 64 bits (after a first W10 upgrade to license them, coming from 8.1 Pro).

None but one of the machines ever showed the issue.
The HTPC driving the projector allways have the issue after watching a movie.  On that machine, only three programs were ever run :
- MC 21
- VLC
- Stereoscopic Player

And with the latest achievement on 3D, MC21 is now the only program that I use on that machine.  
That HTPC is an i5-4570, 8GB DDR3, 120GB SSD and ATI HD7700, full Windows updates and latest Crimson.

To me, it is not a big issue, more an annoyance.  At the end of a movie session, I just have to remember to shut down the computer from within Theaterview...

[cpunit]

Please try MC21.

21 doesn't change anything regarding this issue.

I have MC 18, MC 20
This seems to be an obvious problem and this is not a unilateral problem. (M$ or MC)
i can't enjoy music, i care about SearchUI.exe crashes again.
Hope someone will fix that soon......

[Arindelle]

I mentioned this before, but at least on my systems, I'll mention it again as this is a big post.

what provokes this (for me)

Using Chrome with an adblocker extension. Stream a video from a site that the adblocker will block something. With or without JRiver. I run all audio through the WDM driver, for info. This will need you to restart win explorer. Stopping your system is not a big deal though just right click on the Windows icon. You don't have to exit via theater view as Rudy was mentioning.

I have had no other issues since the last big MS patch. I'd try not using Chrome to test (or do not load any extensions), and see if that doesn't change something for you guys. If you have Java on your machine, make sure it is running the latest version as this also made the "start" menu un-accessible with an older version I had.

If you are only running JRiver, do not use Chrome as your default browser, an don't have java installed, just ignore me 

 

[chris635]

When I first bought jriver media in December, I kept having the searchui,photo,weather,shellhost apps..etc basically any app that gets suspended will crash after prolonged periods (an hour or so) of running jriver media. I would have to either restart explorer or just reboot. I have over the last several months done several complete reinstalls to figure this out. I slowly added programs and apps back over the last two weeks and once I got back to jriver media the problem came back. Any help to get this working is greatly appreciated, as I do enjoy jriver media and have been forced back to iTunes. I am using the ASUS Xonar Essence STX audio card with UNi Xonar drivers.

[JimH]

Try using another sound device if possible.  There might be a problem with a driver.  I don't know of such a problem with MC.

You could try updating to the latest build from the top of this board.

[chris635]

I have used the on board motherboard sound device and drivers, and the same thing happens.