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[stanzani]

I am evaluating Musichi tagger which is recommended for classical music. It provides a 'composition' field which I am readily using (I am experiencing it with a single composer like mozart which covered nearly almost the genres)
My simple question is how to design a library view in JRiver with the composer filed (which is a custom tag): something simple, I suppose, which I cannot get rid of ...
thanks much

[Arindelle]

I've been meaning to test this tagger for a couple of years now ... it only seems to have GD3 as a premium database which made me a little reluctant, but I'm interested for its retagging abilities. I need to find the time.

However your question may be simple but the response is not at all simple.

First there are a lot of different opinions on classical tagging (do an advanced search on this in the forum and you will find a bunch of interesting posts. Unfortunately the metadata easily obtainable from the internet upon ripping is just not good enough, or its insufficient for even a medium sized classical collection.

I simplified a bit what I do in a recent post that you might want to skim over here.http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=102859.msg713970#msg713970, go to the end of the post where I gt a bit more specific about classical stuff http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=102859.msg717597#msg717597. Bear in mind there is no right way to do this. What is important is to have as much detail, tagged in a consistent way, so that as your library progresses you can change your mind, and your "views" relatively easily - to avoid redoing the grunt work if you will.

Sometimes this could involve using multiple fields with the same data. You should have an idea how you want to separate different versions of the same work, and how you want to see your playback choices on the screen

One thing to really understand especially if you have a large collection is that JRiver uses the Album Name and the Album Artist as the default grouping. You say that composer is a custom tag ... actually it is not. It is easy to set up a view based on just classical music, its just common sense to have at least one of your main views based on Composer. However it depends on how you prefer to handle certain scenarios like for multiple composer albums, three versions of the same opera, deciding if you want to group the original sequence order from a CD, or do you want it filtered by work etc.

You mention the field "composition", if written to the file via this tagger, you (most of the time) can remap it by creating a custom field and import it to JRiver. My field name that I use is called [Work], but sounds like it is the same. However, some people with large collections need an "Opus" field too (like for BMV numbers etc.). If you have the complte works of a composer like Mozart, adding different versions of some of them, you might need it too. You can also stay simple, and just have a View based on composer, then album where you would not need all this detail of course.

Anyway this sort of fascinates me, so if you want to copy/paste your key classical fields with an example of how they are filled in, I could come up with a suggestion or two if that would help?

PS-highly recommend FLAC as the format of choice, especially with Classical music -- as it is the most flexible container for extended metadata and compatibility. Also, how are you handling multiple performers (soloists) -- the semi-colon is the default separator in JRiver ... Im' not sure how that is handled in the tagger you are using. As JRiver is not relational, I'd be interested in knowing how Music chi handles the field [Instrument] for example. Personally I'm not a fan of CUE files either, if you use them you might want to ask yourself why you do ... for me they only serve (maybe) for burning cds, but that's another discussion.

[stanzani]

Arindelle, thanks much for you comment: I am still experimenting so I'll share my experience in the forum, yes.
My question was how to create a librery view as Composer->Composition for classical music (which I am unable so far: I'll dig into this)
Composer is fully supported by JRiver, Composition i a Musichi tag and I cannot enable JRiver to display this

Ciao

[Arindelle]

Arindelle, thanks much for you comment: I am still experimenting so I'll share my experience in the forum, yes.
My question was how to create a librery view as Composer->Composition for classical music (which I am unable so far: I'll dig into this)
Composer is fully supported by JRiver, Composition i a Musichi tag and I cannot enable JRiver to display this

Ciao

you should first check by either doing a tag dump from the tag window, or externally to see exactly the name of the field. If if its is Composition go to OPTIONS=>Library&Folders=>Manage Library Fields see the screenshot, using "Composition" instead of "Work" of course.

After checking that the option "Update for external changes" is checked in your import config, re-rerun autoimport manually.  Add the new field composition to the Tag Editor box ... the tags, if written to the file, should be available to JRiver. 

If needed their is also a library tool "Update Library from Tags", that you could use. The two field names EXACTLY must be the same, case sensitive. The tag composition has to be written to the file. Normally this shouldn't be a problem with FLAC (probably not with ALAC either), but some file extensions do not support some extended metadata (WAV is limited, so is mp3 etc.)

Once this is done you can easily build a view around Composer, then Work, then album etc.

Edit: oops I noticed number 1 didn't make it to the screen shot .... its the obvious ADD button

[Otello]

Why not just use "Album" as "Composition"?

[Arindelle]

Why not just use "Album" as "Composition"?

Allows you to listen to one work, regrouping all its "movements" together. It is pretty much the norm that classical albums contain multiple compositions. They are not like songs in that often they contain 3 to four parts per work. With boxed sets and larger collections, sort of indispensable really, IMO. Of course it is not required

eg. for a Mozart album

The Album - Mozart: Symphonien Nos. 32, 33, 35 "Haffner", 36 "Linz"

The Composition or Work - Symphony No.35 "The Haffner"

further divided by 4 Movements   
1. Allegro con spirito
2. Andante
3. Menuetto
4. Finale (Presto)

Another added plus is you can, using some Grover magic, reduce the length of the track name considerably, as most contain the work and movement making it easier to display. Classical track names can be ridiculously long 

[Otello]

> Allows you to listen to one work, regrouping all its "movements" together. It is pretty much the norm that classical albums contain multiple compositions.

Yes of course; that's why I do not put the record title in the Album field, but the composition.   
I prefer not to use a custom tag for composition, as I learned the hard way that: "if possible always use standard tags".
This way I lose the original album grouping, but IMHO is not a big concern for classical music.

[Arindelle]

This way I lose the original album grouping, but IMHO is not a big concern for classical music.

It can be a big concern for some people. I also think the Album tag is important for retagging and any kind of disaster recovery

I prefer not to use a custom tag for composition, as I learned the hard way that: "if possible always use standard tags".

I agree that using ID3v2 tags or at least Vorbis Comment fields are preferable, as this allows you if needed to reimport tag information into other players.

However I don't understand what you mean by learning it the hard way ... custom tags are not dangerous and can be exportable too. They are only dangerous when they change values in other fields and you don't do proper backups.

If custom tags are configured to write to the file. You have your JRiver library backups, you have the tag info written to the file its self. You have your backup of your media and you archive of both the media and the library backups. As you can always reimport, write back from the library to the file or vice versa. This data is as safe as any other field.  And they open up a world of possibilities. Other than the learning curve involved, why not use them?

[Listener]

I am evaluating Musichi tagger which is recommended for classical music. It provides a 'composition' field which I am readily using (I am experiencing it with a single composer like mozart which covered nearly almost the genres)
My simple question is how to design a library view in JRiver with the composer filed (which is a custom tag): something simple, I suppose, which I cannot get rid of ...
thanks much

You can create a new view by right clicking on "Audio" in the left pane and choosing "Add lbrary view".  A dialog window will appear and you just specify what you want there.

Here is the view that I use most often for classical music.  (View as Panes, categories as shown in the panes.)

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I have well over 2,500 mostly classical SACDs in my library.  With help from a friend with extensive MusiChi experience for his CDs, we added only the Composition field to JRiver's standard definitions.  MusiChi is not compatible with his or my own .dsf format SACDs.

I am quite happy with the results, although I too have been unsuccessful in creating a JRiver/JRemote view that includes and displays Composition with the thumbnail type of view I prefer.  So, my most frequently used views are Composer/Genre/Album or Artist/Album, usually via JRemote.  Genre, as we use it, is Symphony, Concerto, Orchestral, Chamber, etc.  Broad genre categories, but not too broad, or not to narrow. We do not want to put the period in the Genre field, since all a composer's works would then come out as only the one Genre=period. Album name is often edited to straightforwardly be Composer, Works and Conductor, the latter in parens.  Or, for collections, it might be the Artist name and Album name.

I have gotten used to just hitting the "I" in JRemote once I select the album from the displayed thumbnails with album name beneath.  Then, I quickly look at the tags for the likely tracks - "I" again alongside the track - to find the Composition I am looking for, guided by the Name field for each track, which is usually the movement number and title.

I am so used to it and it is relatively quick, so I just do it instinctively now.

Incidentally, I very much like the simple standard view of all tags that have values for a track provided by JRemote.  I found it easier to use than a predefined Columns view on my monitor in standard JRiver.  It has helped me find the inevitable tagging errors that crop up, though both views of the tags are sometimes useful.

Incidentally, all the tagging work is backed up first by manually writing the tags from the Library to the Media files, and the Media files are themselves then backed up offsite.  I keep them in batch folders as new media are ripped and tagged.  So, only the latest tagged batch folder need be added to the cumulative offsite backup.  A new import of the Media backups would fully restore the Library with all tags in the event of a disaster.

Tagging errors discovered in earlier batches can be fixed by creating and applying MPL files to the backup library and media.  But, I have not had to do a lot of that, fortunately.

[JimH]

Listener,
Would you be willing to save that view and upload the file?

Your post got us talking about whether we could add view sharing to Doctor Who (or similar).

Thanks,

Jim

[Listener]

Listener,
Would you be willing to save that view and upload the file?

Your post got us talking about whether we could add view sharing to Doctor Who (or similar).

email sent with 3 views and a library backup.

[JimH]

Thanks.  Did you send it to jimh at ... ?

[Listener]

Thanks.  Did you send it to jimh at ... ?

yes.

[JimH]

Got it.  Thank you.

[stanzani]

email sent with 3 views and a library backup.

Hello Listener, great job indeed! could you share to a larger audience?
BTW I am still struggli with the same problem:
I tagged using the composition field, but I cannot display  (group under composer) in JRiver
More: how to you select 'classical music' ? Do you simply tag under Genre = Classical? I'd love subgeneres (Chamber Music->Quarte, etc.) like Musichi do
thanks much!

[Arindelle]

Listener,
Would you be willing to save that view and upload the file?

Your post got us talking about whether we could add view sharing to Doctor Who (or similar).

Thanks,

Jim

Very interesting idea   I'm assuming that if the view was based on custom fields, these would have to added manually.
Would/could this include thumbnail text display modification? Views for Theater and Remote modes?

[Otello]

However I don't understand what you mean by learning it the hard way ... custom tags are not dangerous and can be exportable too. They are only dangerous when they change values in other fields and you don't do proper backups.

The hard way was switching to JRiver from another program, losing all my custom tags, so I learned to use the standard ones for the most important fields.
So, the point is: what's more important (so we'll save it in standard tags), the composition or the disk?
IMHO, with classical music the disk is not so important, most recordings were reprinted and reprinted, often with different grouping in respect of the original edition.

[Otello]

BTW I am still struggli with the same problem:
I tagged using the composition field, but I cannot display  (group under composer) in JRiver
More: how to you select 'classical music' ? Do you simply tag under Genre = Classical? I'd love subgeneres (Chamber Music->Quarte, etc.) like Musichi do
thanks much!

-Create a new view under Audio (left column) for Classical Music, for instance make a copy of Panes and call it Classical; than right-click on it and select "customize view", "set the rules for file display", for instance: "Genre - is - Classical"

-Then you have to write your grouping rule and store it in the Library Items, (Tools/Options/Library&Folders/Manage Library Fields), for instance I use an expression that create something like "Composer - Album - Conductor and/or Artist(s) and/or Orchestra - Date - Publisher".

-Move the mouse pointer to the tab of your view, click on "group by", select "more (group a-z)" and select the library field you just created.

[stanzani]

OK, I then go to JRiver -> Tools/Options/Library&Folders/Manage Library Fields' and added afield named composition. Then I go into the (few) albums I tagged with Musichi where 'Album' is the album name (e.g. Symphony 3 &3 - Kondrashin) and composition is the work name - e.g Symphony n.3 op,56
If I lurk the piece with JRiver tagger I see the composition filed wihich unfortunately is empty (I'd expect to se the work name I entered with musichi

[Otello]

Stanzani, that's exactly why I suggested NOT to use a custom field: Musichi custom tags are not compatible with JRiver and viceversa.

[Arindelle]

OK, I then go to JRiver -> Tools/Options/Library&Folders/Manage Library Fields' and added afield named composition. Then I go into the (few) albums I tagged with Musichi where 'Album' is the album name (e.g. Symphony 3 &3 - Kondrashin) and composition is the work name - e.g Symphony n.3 op,56
If I lurk the piece with JRiver tagger I see the composition filed wihich unfortunately is empty (I'd expect to se the work name I entered with musichi

when you say lurk in JRiver, did you do a tag dump?
again please check:

- that Musichi actually wrote the tag to the file itself
- that in looking at the tag from the file itself make sure the tag you created is exactly the same (and the same type but for composition it will be a text string) -- if needed, delete the custom tag and recreate the field. Of course if the tag is Composition and you created Work its not going to happen -- sometimes it can be case sensitive I've found, and be careful to not include trailing spaces

If the above are true you may need that update for external changes is checked in your import options. And finally select an album's tracks that you expect the new field to have been populated then right click=>Library Tools=>Update Library from Tags. What might be happening is that you have already imported the cds prior to adding the new field .. the library tool will force a library overwrite.

Also I'm assuming you are using FLAC files and not WAV files and are not using CUE files.

[stanzani]

Since I keep classical music and popular music in two separate folders (I map z: drive to \\nas-xyz\Qmmultimedia\ and get files from z:\music\classical and z:\music\poprock) is the a way to create a view getting files from  either z:\music\classical or z:\music\poprock using 'Set rules for file display'? I see that I can use only Volume Name tag field or File path but neither works sinche File paths does not consider subdirectories
I do not want to filter use Genre field since I do not like to put 'classical'. It mens nothing, I'd use operas chamber music, lieder etc. which are more expressive

[Otello]

Genre  - is any - Classical, Chamber Music, Organ, Piano, Lieder

[Arindelle]

Since I keep classical music and popular music in two separate folders (I map z: drive to \\nas-xyz\Qmmultimedia\ and get files from z:\music\classical and z:\music\poprock) is the a way to create a view getting files from  either z:\music\classical or z:\music\poprock using 'Set rules for file display'? I see that I can use only Volume Name tag field or File path but neither works sinche File paths does not consider subdirectories
I do not want to filter use Genre field since I do not like to put 'classical'. It mens nothing, I'd use operas chamber music, lieder etc. which are more expressive

You can by using [Filename (path)] to do what you want as part of the rule.

 However, sorting your media in windows by genre can bring on other headaches later on. Take it with a grain of salt, but I'd recommend having a three tier genre system, especially if you have a fair amount of classical music. Now for classical itself this might not be that important, but there are many instances that you will have crossover artists between Latin, Jazz, R&B, Electronic, Po/Rock etc.

I use Grouping for my top genre (primarily for filtering), Genre, the Styles (note: all three of these fields are ID3V2 Vorbis Comment compatible and even can be used in itunes -- so they are standard fields. Otherwise you can create a custom field if you want)  So you could have for example Classical just as a filter, only show Genres and styles in the view. Also using the advanced option to filter both ways in a pane view will give you complete control if you have multiple genres (eg Lieder as a subgenre or style, could be Choral/Lyric and/or Orchestral (like Mahler).

BUT what happened with your mapping of composition?? Did you check my reply? If it doesn't work its not because there is an inherent incompatibility from one tagger to another -- unless muschi is not actually writing tags to the file. Frankly if it doesn't work its an exception more than the rule in my expereience

[stanzani]

Genre  - is any - Classical, Chamber Music; Organ; Piano,. Lieder

ciao marco, Got it thanks
The issue is that Tnot all music has genre field tagged and, even worse, some has bad tags. Moreover classical music is more difficult to gather by genre: at least there should be an 'instrumental genre' (e.g. string quartet, orchestral,  choral, voice and orchestra etc.) and a syle / age genre (e.g. early music, baroque, renaissance, romantic etc.)
selecting by folder would be a piece of cake

I hardly mind about genre, which I am lazy to fill and maintain

[Otello]

This is simple.
Open the "File" view.
Select the folder storing classical music.
sort by Genre - This will group all the files with empty Genre tag.
Select the files with empty Genre field and fill it. You can do the same for files with wrong genre.

I strongly suggest to use the (sub)genre field; it is very useful for searching in big collection, better if you selected "filter in both" direction" as suggested by Arindelle.
Once your files are well organized by composition, adjusting the genre to the right sub-category (chamber, piano, etc.) is a few minutes work.

[stanzani]

Right. Still I cannot find the sub genre field in the tag window. should I create a custom tag?

[Otello]

Yes, Sub_Genre is a custom tag.
BTW, that's why I do use Genre instead: IMHO there's no need to build a tree structure: Genre>SubGenre.
Once you have grouped your classical collection (using "Genre - is any"), just put the various subgenres - Chamber, Piano, lieder, etc. - in the Genre field.
I mean: I KNOW chamber music is a subsection of Classical, I do not need to occupy a field to remember this! 

[Listener]

Since I keep classical music and popular music in two separate folders (I map z: drive to \\nas-xyz\Qmmultimedia\ and get files from z:\music\classical and z:\music\poprock) is the a way to create a view getting files from  either z:\music\classical or z:\music\poprock using 'Set rules for file display'? I see that I can use only Volume Name tag field or File path but neither works sinche File paths does not consider subdirectories
I do not want to filter use Genre field since I do not like to put 'classical'. It mens nothing, I'd use operas chamber music, lieder etc. which are more expressive

I use the Genre tag to separate Classical music from popular music of various sorts.  I use different views for different kinds of music and filter based on the Genre tag.  There are other ways to accomplish the separation.

Have you actually tried creating a view?  Once you start using the dialog, you will see possibilities.  For example, the Classical - Major composers view in my earlier post, selects Genre=Classical and selects Composer from a list of values present in the library.  I simply clicked a checkbox beside each name I wanted. 

You could filter on that 'more expressive" set of Genre values by checking the values to be included in a classical music view.

[Listener]

Yes, Sub_Genre is a custom tag.
BTW, that's why I do use Genre instead: IMHO there's no need to build a tree structure: Genre>SubGenre.
Once you have grouped your classical collection (using "Genre - is any"), just put the various subgenres - Chamber, Piano, lieder, etc. - in the Genre field.
I mean: I KNOW chamber music is a subsection of Classical, I do not need to occupy a field to remember this!  

When I see someone doing things differently than I do, it is a chance for me to learn something.  I might not wind up changing the way I do things, but I might have a broader view of the problem.  At the very least, I learn something about how other people see a problem and possible solutions.  I knew why I created the Sub_genre field.  

Some composers like Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Bach wrote a large number of works.  Selecting a single Sub_genre shortens the list of works in the Work Name pane and that makes scrolling through the list of works much nicer.  When a composer's list of works in my collection is short, I don't bother to select a Sub_genre.

My intent in posting to a thread like this is to help someone learn enough to solve their problem and be better equipped to use JRiver MC.  It isn't to establish that my way of doing things is the only way.

[stanzani]

Yes, Sub_Genre is a custom tag.
BTW, that's why I do use Genre instead: IMHO there's no need to build a tree structure: Genre>SubGenre.
Once you have grouped your classical collection (using "Genre - is any"), just put the various subgenres - Chamber, Piano, lieder, etc. - in the Genre field.
I mean: I KNOW chamber music is a subsection of Classical, I do not need to occupy a field to remember this! 

The issue is that my music collection is not just classical: the plan is to specify 'Classical' for Genre in ALL classical music files and the use a couple of subgeneres (one related to instruments, one related to style / Period) below Genre

[Otello]

When I see someone doing things differently than I do, it is a chance for me to learn something.  I might not wind up changing the way I do things, but I might have a broader view of the problem.  At the very least, I learn something about how other people see a problem and possible solutions.  I knew why I created the Sub_genre field.  
[...]
My intent in posting to a thread like this is to help someone learn enough to solve their problem and be better equipped to use JRiver MC.  It isn't to establish that my way of doing things is the only way.

I completely agree with you, I post in thread like this for the same reasons, hoping to find good ideas to improve my library organization, far to be perfect.

I knew why I created the Sub_genre field.  
Some composers like Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Bach wrote a large number of works.  Selecting a single Sub_genre shortens the list of works in the Work Name pane and that makes scrolling through the list of works much nicer.  When a composer's list of works in my collection is short, I don't bother to select a Sub_genre.

We have a problem, as I agree on this too...
Maybe we're having a misunderstanding - quite likely, as English is not my mother Language - fact is my organization is almost identical to yours, except we use different names for some columns; your Sub_Genre is like to my Genre, and your Work is like my Album.
(I made this way because, as I wrote at the beginning of the thread, I prefer to use standard tags for the most important informations.)
If you want, for me "Classical" is implicit in its various subgenres, so I dont feel the need to "waste" a standard tag for Classical, I just use the Genre Tag for Classical SubGenres.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Stanzani, that's exactly why I suggested NOT to use a custom field: Musichi custom tags are not compatible with JRiver and viceversa.

Yes, but Phillipe of MusiChi can show you how to remap into JRiver.  A close friend of mine has done this.

[Listener]

Yes, but Phillipe of MusiChi can show you how to remap into JRiver.  A close friend of mine has done this.

I think Othello's comment is irrelevant.  Stanzani wants to gets tags populated by MusiChi into MC.  If MC doesn't have a predefined field that matches the tag MusiChi created, he needs to create a user defined tag.  This is a practical matter not a question of philosophy.

Stanzani, you need to look at the tags present in your files to see what tags and values MusiChi has created.  That might suggest the names for user-defined tags.  Keep in mind that the names of the MusiChi tag and the MC field have to match exactly.  If you can't make it work, ask the MusiChi author.

[Otello]

Yes, Listener is right: I wasn't aware of the workaround for remapping MusiCHI tags.
Thanks for the info.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

When I see someone doing things differently than I do, it is a chance for me to learn something.  I might not wind up changing the way I do things, but I might have a broader view of the problem.  At the very least, I learn something about how other people see a problem and possible solutions.  I knew why I created the Sub_genre field.  

Some composers like Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Bach wrote a large number of works.  Selecting a single Sub_genre shortens the list of works in the Work Name pane and that makes scrolling through the list of works much nicer.  When a composer's list of works in my collection is short, I don't bother to select a Sub_genre.

My intent in posting to a thread like this is to help someone learn enough to solve their problem and be better equipped to use JRiver MC.  It isn't to establish that my way of doing things is the only way.

I agree.  The concept is quite useful, except I just use the existing Genre field in the same way as you use Sub-Genre.  Most classical albums come pre tagged by the publisher with Genre= classical.  Since over 90% of my library is classical, I thought that would be a redundant waste to have them all just say "classical".  I also created a separate custom field called Classical, which is either blank for all the classical albums, or No for the less than 10% that is non-classical.  The non-classicals can each have their own Genre values - pop, rock, jazz, etc. and those genres are often filled in correctly from the publisher's metadata via the rip.

But, it is then easy to have a view of just classical or just non-classical, which is what I want, as you do too.  For a view of just classical, I merely include the conditional Classical not equal to No.

Just a different way to skin the cat.

Within classical, incidentally, I also wanted separate views for multichannel, stereo or both combined.  Each of those main views has separate by album, composer, artist and genre views within it.  It is really not hard at all once you get the hang of it.  And, they all translate nicely and into JRemote, or they can be used directly in JRiver itself.

Bottom line is to get the kind of breakdowns and views you want with as few custom fields as possible.  I have only two custom fields: Composition and Classical (blank or No).

[Otello]

[..]
I also created a separate custom field called Classical, which is either blank for all the classical albums, or No for the less than 10% that is non-classical.  The non-classicals can each have their own Genre values - pop, rock, jazz, etc. and those genres are often filled in correctly from the publisher's metadata via the rip.

But, it is then easy to have a view of just classical or just non-classical, which is what I want, as you do too.  For a view of just classical, I merely include the conditional Classical not equal to No.
[...]
Bottom line is to get the kind of breakdowns and views you want with as few custom fields as possible.  I have only two custom fields: Composition and Classical (blank or No).

@Fitzcaraldo
I'm wondering if you created the Classical custom tag only for separating classical from non-classical music, or there are other uses for this tag.
I'm asking because I did the same without custom tags,  just using the "Genre - is any/is not any" rule for file display.

[Listener]

My comments in bold.

I see your posts in the WBF forum, don't I?

I agree.  The concept is quite useful, except I just use the existing Genre field in the same way as you use Sub-Genre.  Most classical albums come pre tagged by the publisher with Genre= classical.  Since over 90% of my library is classical, I thought that would be a redundant waste to have them all just say "classical".  

There is a big idea there that some people using JRiver haven't grasped.  You don't have to accept the values that the ripping process provides or that are in downloaded music files.  You can edit the values or replace them with whatever you want.


I also created a separate custom field called Classical, which is either blank for all the classical albums, or No for the less than 10% that is non-classical.  The non-classicals can each have their own Genre values - pop, rock, jazz, etc. and those genres are often filled in correctly from the publisher's metadata via the rip.

But, it is then easy to have a view of just classical or just non-classical, which is what I want, as you do too.  For a view of just classical, I merely include the conditional Classical not equal to No.

Just a different way to skin the cat.

I wonder if otello has a similar saying in his 1st language.  What's important is that the cat get skinned.

Within classical, incidentally, I also wanted separate views for multichannel, stereo or both combined.  Each of those main views has separate by album, composer, artist and genre views within it.  It is really not hard at all once you get the hang of it.  And, they all translate nicely and into JRemote, or they can be used directly in JRiver itself.

It takes 1-2 minutes to creat a new view, so I create them when I need them.  I have one for small works with the (track) Name field in a pane.  Handy for things like Chopin Mazurkas where I don't want to list each mazurka as a work. (Makes the list too long.)  I have a different view for Viennese waltzes , polkas, marches and Galops also with a pane containing the (track) Name.  JRiver can handle having hundreds or thousands of items in a pane list.

Bottom line is to get the kind of breakdowns and views you want with as few custom fields as possible.  I have only two custom fields: Composition and Classical (blank or No).

I'm not doctrinaire about creating custom fields.  I have 7 custom fields in my permanent music library and 8 custom fields in a photo editing library. One benefit of custom fields is that I control them.  If JRiver changes a string field to a list field in response to requests from other users, I'm not affected.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

@Fitzcaraldo
I'm wondering if you created the Classical custom tag only for separating classical from non-classical music, or there are other uses for this tag.
I'm asking because I did the same without custom tags,  just using the "Genre - is any/is not any" rule for file display.

Yes, currently, I use my Classical = blank/No custom tag field only for the purpose of creating separate views of my classical vs. non-classical albums.  I felt it was easier to insert that conditional into the queries rather than a long list of values on the Genre field value.  As I use Genre, it has many values both for classical and non.  Also, a new and appropriate Genre value might pop up unexpectedly on a new disc, if for some crazy reason I started collecting hip hop, for example.

But, like any tag field, especially a custom field, the actual values you use are up to you and they must be maintained by you.

I chose to only put the value No into it because then, I only had to apply that tag value to my relatively small list of non-classical's.  My classicals have no value there, and they did not require that I enter a value for them.  But, I might have entered a value of Yes there for all classicals, except it is unnecessary for me and not worth the effort. Classical not equal to No gives me the same thing, i.e., just the classicals.

I could see someone else using the concept differently (with a different name for the custom tag) if for example they wanted to create three or more separate major divisions in their library, say classical, jazz and pop, while using the Genre field for all the sub genres within those categories, as I do.

The point is JRiver has the flexibility and customization capability.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

My comments in bold.

I see your posts in the WBF forum, don't I?

Yup, that's me.

[Otello]

As I use Genre, it has many values both for classical and non.  Also, a new and appropriate Genre value might pop up unexpectedly on a new disc, if for some crazy reason I started collecting hip hop, for example.
[...]
I could see someone else using the concept differently (with a different name for the custom tag) if for example they wanted to create three or more separate major divisions in their library, say classical, jazz and pop, while using the Genre field for all the sub genres within those categories, as I do.

The point is JRiver has the flexibility and customization capability.

You're right, this can be an issue.
On my side I solved the problem using at least once "Genre - is not any"; this way this view will catch any weird genre.
So I have: (yes, I couldn't use your system because I have more than 3 major divisions)

Opera
Genre - Is any - Opera

Classical
Genre - is any - Classical; Chamber; Church; Lieder; Organ; Piano

Jazz
Genre - is any - Jazz; Jazz Fusion

Pop/Rock
Genre - is not any - Jazz; Opera; Classical; Chamber; Church; Lieder; Organ; Piano

[Arindelle]

you guys seem allergic to custom tags .. ok but the thread started about remapping a field from one tagger into JRiver right? I'm confused.

Anyway, bear in mind that using for instance Grouping, Genre, Style, and for classical including Period maybe (all "universal" Fields) you have a lot of control. The only thing really missing is a work or composition field -- in my opinion.

What Otello recommends works of course but is much less flexible, and I believe would be unwieldy in a medium to large collection -- in my mid-size collection I would have to exclude or include, depending I guess, over 80 genres for Pop/Rock, Jazz etc.

Using either a custom tag or another standard one like Grouping is not, in this sense a "waste" of a tag. Just select all the classical and type Classical one time in the grouping field .. no need for custom Classical Yes/no fields either

However, for what its worth,  you just might find that you start opening your horizons and loving Hip-Hop who knows (there are some very good Hip-Hop albums btw).    Five years ago I hated Country music, now I'm a big fan. As a collection grows, short of being "Tree" browsing dependant you might have to do a major overhaul which could be avoided by using an extra field now. of course Classical is a separate issue being usually Composer based rather than Artist which would merit separate views. All other music could be just filtered by category (like the grouping field) using the same views. And you don't have to actually "show" a field anyway

Of course do what you want and enjoy your music which is what is important. 

[JimH]

Listener,
Would you be willing to save that view and upload the file?

Your post got us talking about whether we could add view sharing to Doctor Who (or similar).

Thanks,

Jim

This feature is coming soon.  JohnT just wrote about it here:

Shared Views

[Listener]

This feature is coming soon.  JohnT just wrote about it here:

Shared Views

Jim, shared views might be more useful if they were accompanied by some explanation from the originator.  For example, what custom fields are used and how he/she saw the view being used.  I'd be willing to contribute such comments about any of my views.

[JimH]

Jim, shared views might be more useful if they were accompanied by some explanation from the originator.  For example, what custom fields are used and how he/she saw the view being used.  I'd be willing to contribute such comments about any of my views.

Thanks.  I agree.  For now, I had thought about using a thread where people could do that and let others know how to get them (user name and view name).  Maybe you could start it.