Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Valerio49]

Why Bitstream Audio Option is not recommended in Settings?
There is a way to avoid, using the JRiver software, that  strong "tock" in the transition from DSD to PCM at the end of a playlist or album? It seems that this is a defect of any DAC, as my Aune S16.

[CountryBumkin]

When you bitstream you can't use any of the JRiver DSP features (audio analysis w/ volume leveling, room correction, EQ, Internal Volume Control, VideoClock, etc.) your basically just using MC for its "library management capabilities" and all the audio processing would then be done by your sound device.

[Matt]

And honestly it's really rare to find a sound device that can do as good of a job at decoding and rendering as Media Center.  It's sort of our bread and butter.

[Valerio49]

And honestly it's really rare to find a sound device that can do as good of a job at decoding and rendering as Media Center.  It's sort of our bread and butter.

I am very pleased with JRiver. But you didn't answer me. Maybe the answer is "it is impossible?"

[blgentry]

There is a way to avoid, using the JRiver software, that  strong "tock" in the transition from DSD to PCM at the end of a playlist or album?

This is a problem with DSF files.  They frequently have a problem where they make a click, tick, or tock sound at the end of the file.  As I understand it, it has something to do with how the DSF files get converted from a raw SACD rip.  DFF files and SACD ISOs do not have this problem.

I don't think it has anything to do with bitstreaming, but I could be wrong.

Brian.

[glynor]

There is a way to avoid, using the JRiver software, that  strong "tock" in the transition from DSD to PCM at the end of a playlist or album? It seems that this is a defect of any DAC, as my Aune S16.

If it is a click between tracks, it may be part of the files (as described above by Brian).  However, clicks made by a DAC when switching formats (from PCM to DSD, for example) are often something physical with the DAC (relays switching, etc).

Sometimes you can get it to stop by tweaking the Options > Audio > Play Silence at Startup for Hardware Sync setting, or the buffering settings. But, in as many cases, it is something physical with your DAC and there is no way to fix it.

The answers you got were to this:

Why Bitstream Audio Option is not recommended in Settings?

Because bitstreaming is NOT recommended because:

1. You lose access to useful features in Media Center.
2. The DAC is very likely a WORSE decoder than MC.
3. Even if it isn't worse, it also isn't better than MC at it, so then see point #1.

[Valerio49]

blgentry,
Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately the suggested remedies do not work. The issue is addressed partially by using the XMOS USB Audio driver (Wasapi), which, within setting device, allows to select the check box "Play a little silence on DoP stop (removes clicks with some DACs)". So you have time to activate the mute before the click.
This option shows that this problem is not mine alone.

[blgentry]

blgentry,
Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately the suggested remedies do not work.

Huh?  The "remedy" is to not use DSF files.  Do you have ISOs or DFFs that you can test?  If my theory is correct, this is just a problem with DSF files which is well known.  If Glynor's theory is correct, it's a DAC problem.  There are other possibilities as well.  Until you test a DFF or ISO file, you won't know.

Brian.

[DJLegba]

It sounds like a DAC problem. My e22 switches between PCM and DSD without a sound.

[dtc]

Huh?  The "remedy" is to not use DSF files.  Do you have ISOs or DFFs that you can test?  If my theory is correct, this is just a problem with DSF files which is well known.  If Glynor's theory is correct, it's a DAC problem.  There are other possibilities as well.  Until you test a DFF or ISO file, you won't know.

Brian.

I don't have a obviously solution, but here is some more information.

DSF files may have some glitch in them depending on how they were created, but that is not  common. A simple test would be to download a couple of the free DSF files and try them, or to use MC to create DSD files from PCM files as a test.  Certainly, DSF files like those from HDTracks and other download sites do not have unwanted bits that cause a click. If, in fact, the problem is in the actual files, playing consecutive DSF files would produce clicks at the end of each file, which is not, I believe, what is being reported. I would be surprised if it is the DSF files themselves, although  it is possible.

The clicks seem to happen when transitioning form DSD to PCM.  Playing silence at both the end and the beginning of a track can sometimes correct the problem. The issue, I believe, it how the DAC recognizes the DoP format, or, in this case, the end of the DoP format.

From pictures of the box the S16 comes in, I  believe the unit comes with a CD. Does that CD have an ASIO driver on it. If so, that might be a better choice than the WASAPI driver.

FYI - DSF and DFF files contain the same bits other than the header. They are comparable to wav and uncompressed flac - same music bits, different headers. There should be no difference in playing DSF and DFF files.

[imeric]

Aren't Dsf files Dff with metadata?  There's apps allowing you to change a dff into a dsf without tempering with the Audio in the file. (AFAIK MC doesn't and re-encodes the file)

I too have an e22 with no problems and no clicks.  Yes I lose crossfading and volume levelling but using bitstreaming ensures the audio is untouched for DSD files.  This too is a great feature of MC .

If I want DSPs and visualization for casual listening I turn bitstreaming OFF.
And yes changing from one sampling format to another will have a silence in between tracks and that's totally understable.

IMHO MC handles this a whole lot better than foobar...going from 44.1 to anything else and back...

[imeric]

I did a few tests...

I bought DSD files from prostudiomasters, HD Tracks and they all play perfectly.
I also have some SACD ISOs I split using iso2dsd and they also play flawlessly without gaps or clicks between tracks.

[Valerio49]

I clarify that I never encountered any noise during playback in DSD a sequence of tunes, but only during transition from DSD to PCM (stop or end of the sequence) and that I'm sure the problem is due to the DAC.
The file format is not decisive.
I just wanted to know if, by means of the software MC21, one could overcome this drawback. Because I realized that it is impossible, in future I replace the hardware. Thank you all for the contributions made.

[JimH]

MC has an option to play "leading silence".  That might help.

[RD James]

I just wanted to know if, by means of the software MC21, one could overcome this drawback. Because I realized that it is impossible, in future I replace the hardware. Thank you all for the contributions made.

If you disable bitstreaming, JRiver should be able to do just that.*
Since your DAC supports up to 32/384 PCM, there's absolutely no reason to bitstream DSD.
JRiver has a better filter for the high-frequency noise in DSD signals than most DACs.





*Most of the time - some SACD albums still click for me when JRiver plays them.

[Valerio49]

MC has an option to play "leading silence".  That might help.

I tried, but the problem is not resolved. Thank you anyway.

[Valerio49]

If you disable bitstreaming, JRiver should be able to do just that.*
Since your DAC supports up to 32/384 PCM, there's absolutely no reason to bitstream DSD.
JRiver has a better filter for the high-frequency noise in DSD signals than most DACs.

I'll do as you suggest. Thank you.





*Most of the time - some SACD albums still click for me when JRiver plays them.

[maid]

I like to use bitstream because my onkyo has brilliant sound settings which are easier to switch between for movies just personal choice.