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[Awesome Donkey]

Would be nice if JRiver incorporated such a script to solve a problem I only experience with JRiver.

Well, it's a Windows issue. It's up to Microsoft to fix, honestly (and they've failed to do so thus far). MC isn't the only software which triggers this, from what I read Steam also does.

The workaround script works great though.

[MusicHawk]

I scheduled the following to run every night...  taskkill /IM ShellExperienceHost.exe /F

All my PCs are Windows Creators Update. I just noticed on my desktop that hosts MC, Start button doesn't bring up Start Menu. Grrrrr.... This PC was rebooted yesterday! But MC is almost always open and used to play tracks while ripping, importing, tagging.

Two weeks ago my laptop, which is not used for MC, lost Start Menu. I ran all the scan steps to force Windows Creators Update to repair itself...a painful lengthy process but successful (so far).

Now, with the same problem on my MC-dedicated desktop, I just spotted the above, posted last August. Instead of setting up a schedule for it, I just right-clicked the Start button, selected Run, pasted in "taskkill /IM ShellExperienceHost.exe /F" (without the quotes). This instantly restored my Start menu.

Not a sure thing, and not a justifiable requirement, but quite helpful. I'm putting it in a batch file on my Desktop, which (so-far) seems accessible via right-click even when Start menu is not. I'm also considering a daily scheduled run of the command but wonder, are there side effects to consider when regularly forcing a restart of ShellExperienceHost.exe ?

[BryanC]

All my PCs are Windows Creators Update. I just noticed on my desktop that hosts MC, Start button doesn't bring up Start Menu. Grrrrr.... This PC was rebooted yesterday! But MC is almost always open and used to play tracks while ripping, importing, tagging.

Two weeks ago my laptop, which is not used for MC, lost Start Menu. I ran all the scan steps to force Windows Creators Update to repair itself...a painful lengthy process but successful (so far).

Now, with the same problem on my MC-dedicated desktop, I just spotted the above, posted last August. Instead of setting up a schedule for it, I just right-clicked the Start button, selected Run, pasted in "taskkill /IM ShellExperienceHost.exe /F" (without the quotes). This instantly restored my Start menu.

Not a sure thing, and not a justifiable requirement, but quite helpful. I'm putting it in a batch file on my Desktop, which (so-far) seems accessible via right-click even when Start menu is not. I'm also considering a daily scheduled run of the command but wonder, are there side effects to consider when regularly forcing a restart of ShellExperienceHost.exe ?

See: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106925.0.html

I've had this running for months and never had any issues, just a (finally!) functional start menu.

[Awesome Donkey]

Yep, I also use terrym@nz's script and I always have a functional Start Menu as well.

If you have this issue, I recommend using terrym@nz's script!

[MusicHawk]

I'm trying Terry's script, thanks for the tip.

Since Start Menu sometimes dies on PCs that are not running MC, and since both techniques can be automated via a schedule, I wonder how the outcomes differ? Is it accurate that Terry's is tied to MC activity and resets more than just Start Menu, while DaveG's does only Start Menu and runs no matter what?

[chris635]

I'm trying Terry's script, thanks for the tip.

Since Start Menu sometimes dies on PCs that are not running MC, and since both techniques can be automated via a schedule, I wonder how the outcomes differ? Is it accurate that Terry's is tied to MC activity and resets more than just Start Menu, while DaveG's does only Start Menu and runs no matter what?

I can't speak for DaveG's, but, as far as Terry's goes, the script is specifically tied to MC while it is running. Yes it does "reset" more than just the start menu. Most apps like Windows Store, Weather and Calculator ..etc for example will be terminated and they will restart on their own. The reason for this is, these apps, while not in use, get put into a suspended state, this where the problems start over time. Any app that is suspended gets terminated, or else it will crash when you click on it. Terry has also set this up, so if you are using an app that would other wise be terminated, will not be, while your using it because it is not suspended, however the exception to this is, the specific app your using must not be minimized. Minimizing also puts it in a suspended state when not used over time. The culprit to all of this seems to be the use of Windows new memory compression and suspension of apps. Hope this helps.

[amsco15]

Thanks to terry@nz!!  I run the program using a desktop shortcut with the /nomc option.  I select the shortcut at the end of a listening session and everything on my Win 10 machine is operating back to normal.  Nice and simple.  It's much easier then restarting explorer or logging out and back in.  Thanks again for the nice work!!

[terrym@tassie]

Sad to see this issue is still unresolved, but glad to see the script is helping people who encounter the problem.

Thanks to terry@nz!!

Thanks for the feedback, appreciated.

Terry

[flac.rules]

Well, it's a Windows issue. It's up to Microsoft to fix, honestly (and they've failed to do so thus far). MC isn't the only software which triggers this, from what I read Steam also does.

The workaround script works great though.

Yeah, but a non-fixed windows issue that affects a program is in the practical sense the issue of the program as well. The customer will see it as a problem caused by the program, no matter the underlying technicalities.

[Sesam]

Yeah, but a non-fixed windows issue that affects a program is in the practical sense the issue of the program as well. The customer will see it as a problem caused by the program, no matter the underlying technicalities.

Well, it is time for the customers to wise-up, as far as I remember this bug was already in Windows 10 pre-release versions. I reported this particular issue to Microsoft through two different channels well ahead of release, and they did diddly-squat to fix it. To shift the blame to anyone except the ones responsible is very counterproductive.

[amsco15]

The work around, w10spk, seems to have stopped working for me.

I use the following command to initiate:

C:\Windows\System32\cscript.exe "C:\Users\Computer\Documents\JRiver\vbscript fix\w10spk.vbs" /nomc /log

The log says:

w10spk reports: Checking for processes eligible for termination
w10spk reports: Running Process: ShellExperienceHost.exe is NOT eligible for termination
w10spk reports: Running Process: SearchUI.exe is NOT eligible for termination
w10spk reports: There were no eligible processes to terminate

Any ideas why the processes can't be terminated?

Thanks!

[terrym@tassie]

W10spk only terminates 'suspended' processes, if the process is 'running' it shouldn't need terminating.
Your log indicates the processes were running so weren't terminated. This is the correct behavior.

When you say w10spk has stopped working does that mean your Start Menu has become unresponsive?

Terry

[amsco15]

When you say w10spk has stopped working does that mean your Start Menu has become unresponsive?

Yes exactly.  Is it possible that selecting the start button, after a lengthy MC session, before running w10spk /nomc is the issue? 

[terrym@tassie]

Yes exactly.  Is it possible that selecting the start button, after a lengthy MC session, before running w10spk /nomc is the issue? 

Yes, that is entirely possible, but it has not been reported before.
Why not try running the script from Task Scheduler. That is how I use it.

If you want to test a different behavior for the /nomc switch (termination of running processes) send me a private message and I'll see what I can do (might take a while as I am in the process of moving from New Zealand to Tasmania, Australia).
EDIT: Have attached a revised script  for you to test if required. The revised script terminates ShellExperienceHost and SearchUI if they are running or suspended when /nomc is specified, all other processes (Apps etc) are only terminated if suspended.
Please give me feedback via private message, thanks


Terry

[pgruebele]

In my experience this only happens with JRiver.  It is pretty clear that JRiver is doing something which windows does not like.  Instead of waiting for Microsoft to fix this, PLEASE fix this in JRiver!  It's easy enough to repeat because it happens on SOOOO many systems.  It makes your software unpleasant to use on my systems and apparently MANY other users systems.

I just upgraded to the newest version and am very disappointed that nothing has changed.  If this is not fixed this will I will no longer be a JRiver user as my other media players work perfectly   JRiver users having to killing processes is not an acceptable solution.

Sorry for venting by this has been ongoing for 2 years now!

[Awesome Donkey]

It's a Windows 10 bug, not a JRiver Media Center bug - I doubt JRiver could do anything to workaround it anyways. Have you reported it to Microsoft? Microsoft did attempt to fix it somewhat a couple times, but still haven't been fully able to. Have you tried using the script provided by terrym@nz? It does work great as a workaround for this Windows 10 issue. If that's not an acceptable solution, as I said I suggest taking it up with Microsoft to fix their buggy operating system.

P.S. Media Center isn't the only software which triggers this in Windows 10. I've read that Steam and Adobe products can too, so it's up to Microsoft to fix this.

[tyler69]

interesting, could you please lead me (if you have the links handy) to the "known issues" post/statement where this is mentioned -and also to the steam and adobe discussions? not being able to fix it for that long seems awkward for a software company, especially microsoft.

[Awesome Donkey]

I'd find Terry's topic about his script, it goes into better detail about the issue.

Otherwise no links handy, I'm currently mobile and on the move for the day but I suggest doing some Googling on the subject especially regarding Steam, etc.

[pgruebele]

It really does not matter to me whose "fault" it is.  All I know is that I cannot use JRiver anymore because of it.  The script is also not an acceptable solution because I am a developer and killing these processes is causing some other development related issues for me.

[Awesome Donkey]

It really does not matter to me whose "fault" it is.

It's Microsoft's responsibility.

Honestly, if you want to keep using MC without killing those processes the only other advice is to not use Windows 10 and go back to Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 until Microsoft completely fixes it. Maybe Fall Creators Update will be the one to finally fully fix it? I doubt it, since it seems Microsoft can't do anything right anymore. I guess that's what happens when you lay off the QA team and pass off the responsibility to "Insiders".

If that's also not an acceptable solution, I don't have any other advice.

[pgruebele]

I think everyone will agree that switching operating system just to run JRiver is a non-starter

[amsco15]

.... is to not use Windows 10 and go back to Windows 7...

The problem occurred for me first under Windows 7.  This is not a new Win 10 only issue. 

Note: terrym@nz's solution works!  I set it up as a shortcut on my desktop and run it after a JRiver session. 

[JimH]

The odd thing is that it isn't a very common problem.  We've seen it a few times, but you'd expect more people to be affected.  There may be another related factor.

[Awesome Donkey]

Terry explains the issue in detail in his script topic. The bug is basically where certain processes (start menu, Modern apps, etc.) in a suspended state crash when failing to return to a running state.

But what I'm wondering is if the issue can be prevented programmatically in the first place? What is it MC does in the first place (after playback of 40+ mins) to cause processes to go into a suspended state? Is that what these processes do naturally after X amount of inactivity? Is it even possible to create a workaround or a dedicated application to prevent those processes to go into a suspended state while an app (MC, foobar2000, Steam, Adobe apps, etc) is running/playing back media?

The ideal workaround solution, I'm thinking, would be to find a way to prevent those processes from going into a suspended state in the first place (instead of killing/restarting those processes). Maybe some "Windows Process Keep-Alive" workaround is possible? Not sure, honestly.

It'd be better if Microsoft would just fully fix this issue, IMO.

[mojave]

I just upgraded to the newest version and am very disappointed that nothing has changed.  If this is not fixed this will I will no longer be a JRiver user as my other media players work perfectly   JRiver users having to killing processes is not an acceptable solution.

Sorry for venting by this has been ongoing for 2 years now!

Do you still have MC20 installed on your PC? I mentioned in this thread about a year ago that I uninstalled MC20 on 4 PC's that had the issue and it went away. I've never had the issue since.

[terrym@tassie]

But what I'm wondering is if the issue can be prevented programmatically in the first place? What is it MC does in the first place (after playback of 40+ mins) to cause processes to go into a suspended state? Is that what these processes do naturally after X amount of inactivity? Is it even possible to create a workaround or a dedicated application to prevent those processes to go into a suspended state while an app (MC, foobar2000, Steam, Adobe apps, etc) is running/playing back media?

The processes going into a suspended state is a Windows 10 function, nothing to do with JRiver (Searchui etc suspend almost immediately). It is a design 'feature' to allow Apps to run across varied platforms, being suspended they are eligible to be 'swapped out' if necessary by the OS if it runs short of memory - such as if you are running on a Windows phone for example.
I'm not sure how common a problem the 'JRiver bug' it is but I've seen this bug on 100% of the Windows 10 installations I've worked with.
I have tried many things to eliminate it from my systems with no success (that is a lot of clean installs by the way). But I know it can go away - see Mojave's post above (removing MC20 unfortunately did not work for me though).

Perhaps we could set up a poll to see how many JRiver users are affected- I think a lot a people might just live with it and not report it but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

[chris635]

I'm not sure how common a problem the 'JRiver bug' it is by I've seen this  on 100% of the installations I've worked with.
I have tried many things to eliminate it from my systems with no success (that is a lot of clean installs by the way). But I know it can go away - see Mojave's post above.

Perhaps we could set up a poll to see how many JRiver users are affected- I think a lot a people might just live with it and not report it but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

  I too have seen this on every fresh OS install, with nothing else loaded. That being said, nothing still compares to JRiver.

[RoderickGI]

Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16226 for PC

"•We fixed an issue resulting in Start not working for a small percentage of Insiders on the last flight."

Maybe there is some hope of a fix in the near future.

[BradC]

I have an issue with jriver freezing the computer if I pause a movie for an extended period (~30 mins).
I am wondering if this freezing could be related to this script (which I run using scheduler)

Anyone else have this problem?

[zebm]

I got the Start menu problem on all the Windows 10 installations I have done. Maybe 10-15 installations. Its Windows 10 Pro if that has anything to do with it. I also got a problems with DirectX in Theater view slowing the menus down or hanging the MC app completely. Maybe the problems are connected somehow?

[pgruebele]

I can also confirm that the problems happens on many clean Pro and Home installs with no other software installed.

For me it happens after ~30 minutes of audio playback.  First the start menu suffers delays, then it stops opening altogether.  Also right-clicking on task bar icons no longer shows the popup menu and apps like Calculator open but never show their UI. Both WASAPI and default audio outputs have the same problem.

[Awesome Donkey]

Hopefully Microsoft fixes it eventually, maybe the Fall Creators Update?

[RayDiant]

I am trying to use the w10spk script. It isn't working. I have run setup, choosing the log option. The command line in Task Scheduler is:

wscript.exe "C:\Users\Mark\W10spk\w10spk.vbs"/log

I am worried that it isn't in fact running because there is never a log file. When I choose option 2 in setup to determine Media Centre's status it always says it isn't running but it is.

Am I doing something wrong here?

Mark

[RayDiant]

An update. If I run this command:

Cscript //nologo w10spk.vbs /log

Nothing happens

But if I run this command:

Cscript //nologo w10spk.vbs /nomc /log
I get a log file and suspended processes are terminated.

Any reason why the script isn't detecting that MC is running or playing?

Mark

[Awesome Donkey]

You might want to post about that in the script's topic: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106925.0.html

[Captor]

Hi
Is this issue solved yet? Seems like microsoft donīt intend to do anything. I think it is a JRiver problem.

[Awesome Donkey]

Hi
Is this issue solved yet? Seems like microsoft donīt intend to do anything. I think it is a JRiver problem.

Microsoft has had nearly three years so far to fix it, however they haven't been fully able to yet.

It's a Windows 10 issue, not JRiver issue. It also can affect other software including Adobe apps, Steam, etc.

[pgruebele]

I am skipping buying JRiver 24 this year because this issue overshadows any new features that might have been added.  So when it is fixed (In Windows or worked around in JRiver), it would be great if someone could post an update here...

[JimH]

Please read this:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,113034.0.html

[pgruebele]

Thanks for that . I was unaware of this link and appreciate the considerable effort that has gone into working around this Windows bug.

I now disabled animations and will see if the problem improves.  If not I will install the script which I am happy to see does not involve killing explorer.exe as I have been doing manually.

[JimH]

Please use that thread now.