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Author Topic: Where We're Going  (Read 7625 times)

JimH

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Where We're Going
« on: December 18, 2017, 03:26:00 am »

Here's what I see as the Big Picture for JRiver.  It will probably change.  We need to be able to respond to market changes.

JRiver Assets

JRiver has the broadest possible support for managing and playing media files.

We have an extremely knowledgeable and helpful user community.

Together, we've built a very strong forum and a very solid wiki.

We have the most comprehensive and stable support for networked playback and control.

We have the fastest, most powerful, and most flexible database for media files.

All of this is now multi-platform.  It is built on source that can be compiled on Windows, OSX, and Linux.  It has controls that run on Android, iOS, and in a web browser.

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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 03:27:50 am »

JRiver Hardware

I broke this out because it is a rich new direction for JRiver.

The JRiver Id (rhymes with Kid) is a media appliance.  It is a complete media solution in a package that requires no maintenance.  It is automatically configured and updated.

The Id now runs on very low powered devices: the Intel NUC lineup and the Raspberry Pi.  It consumes power similar to a single LED light bulb.

The Id is now stable and largely trouble free.  We can produce it at high volume and low cost.
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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 03:29:28 am »

Panel

I broke this out for the same reason.

Panel is a web app. 

It launches from Media Center, so there is no setup.

It gets updated when JRiver Media Center is updated.

It uses HTML5 in the browser, so any browser can play media from JRiver if it is in a supported format.  JRiver converts formats automatically.
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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 03:35:12 am »

JRiver Challenges

There are pieces of JRiver that are missing on some OS's.

Theater View on ARM (Raspberry Pi).

Image support on ARM

TV support on OSX and Linux.  This may not be possible, but we're not ready to give up.

IR Remote control support on Linux and OSX.
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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2017, 03:39:11 am »

Maintenance
A lot of our work is just pure maintenance.  Things like converting to 64 bit builds.  Or bug fixes.  Or tweaks.  These are important.  Though many are tiny changes, they have a cumulative effect.

Support
Though we are sometimes chided for providing no meaningful help, we do spend a lot of time on it.

Updates
Keeping a smooth stream of minor updates working and not creating trouble takes time and effort.

Upgrades
Major upgrades mean lots of time helping people with licenses and configuration.  This is also a major part of our income.
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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2017, 03:39:21 am »

Multi-Room Audio

We hope to have this working in this version.

Blu-ray Menus

Also probably in this version.

Movie Trailers
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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2017, 03:39:30 am »

Reserved
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imugli

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2017, 04:49:16 am »

I love you guys, as all of us do.

So where is the PR guy or girl in these plans?

JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 05:51:35 am »

Thanks. I thought you were her.
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imugli

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2017, 08:06:58 am »

Thanks. I thought you were her.

Ummm... him???  ;D

connersw

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2017, 10:56:17 am »

JRiver Assets

JRiver has the broadest possible support for managing and playing media files.

We have the most comprehensive and stable support for networked playback and control.

We have the fastest, most powerful, and most flexible database for media files.

Curious how you measure / quantify the first two of these comments.  I think they are both debatable considering how far some other software has come.

I don't understand the third comment.  Are you referring to Library management?  Again, I'm not sure how you measure or back up that statement, but I suppose I would agree with it on the surface.

Regarding where you are actually going (ie. future development, not what already exists), the only thing I really see listed is in challenges and a couple comments at the end.

I find it curious that there is no mention of running on Android (other than the control apps).  Android is 70-86% of the mobile market depending on what you read.  Android TV also holds a huge chunk of the digital streaming market that continues to grow as more people "cut the cord" with cable operators.  As you wrote in another post, "Will JRiver Earn More Money?," this seems to be an area that is ripe for additional revenue.  Being able to run a more functional version on a tablet or streaming box seems like something you have abandoned. 

Multi-Room Audio

We hope to have this working in this version.

Would love to see this, but I've been reading about it since at least MC19 without any real progress. 
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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2017, 11:51:57 am »

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fitbrit

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 06:11:27 pm »

Thanks for this - some exciting changes probably coming soon. Looking forward to them.
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amdismal

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2017, 03:41:00 am »

For me you miss out on the main two issues I have with MC

Streaming
Take a look at Roon and the way that it integrates tidal into your music collection. I doubt that I am the only one of your customers that has thousands of albums, but has largely stopped buying them due to the quality of streaming services. I think that you're behind the curve if you are focusing on playing our media files.
All media devices that you buy now have ways of playing these streaming services. The MC way, of playing through the WDM driver, is very clunky.
MC is still IMO the best system I have come across for playing my music. But this is becoming less the case as I move more to streaming files.

Remote App
The Gizmo app on my phone is pretty cool for playing files, sure - if I was stuck in 2010. It now feels very basic. There's no social element, no looking up things, it just plays your files. I use my phone for 90% of my internet use now, this could really do with improvement.

Anyway, these are the thoughts of a music-only user. I get that you may be more focused on wider media, which is fine, but please don't leave us behind :)
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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2017, 03:44:55 am »

For me you miss out on the main two issues I have with MC
...
Remote App
The Gizmo app on my phone is pretty cool for playing files, sure - if I was stuck in 2010. It now feels very basic. There's no social element, no looking up things, it just plays your files. I use my phone for 90% of my internet use now, this could really do with improvement.
Have you tried Panel in the last few builds of MC23?
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dtc

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2017, 10:58:41 am »

It's one thing to draw a picture or conceptualize a system, and quite a different thing to implement one.

Panel was intended for phones and tablets, similar to the purpose of Gizmo and JRemote.  It also works OK on a desktop, in my opinion.

I spent many years designing and implementing software systems, so I understand well the issues involved. I believe the idea of developing separate UIs for desktop and mobile systems, as jmone's architecture describes, is a good one. My comment was just that Panel does not do that and I think that is not optimal.

As to Panel, itself, IMO, Panel does not work as well as current products on a phone or tablet from a UI perspective.  The Playing Now display is not as good as the UI in JRemote or Gizmo. If you put the JRemote look and feel into Panel, I believe it would be a much better user experience. Quite frankly, I was surprised you did not do that, given JRemotes popularity. I think adding the JRemote interface to Panel would make Panel a better platform for future development.

As a desktop app Panel just does not work well from a UI perspective.  Half the screen is blank on a big monitor. I am not sure if you plan to address that in the future, but a separate client development as per jmone's architecture would make sense to me.  I have shared Panel with several friends and they like the idea of a browser interface on a desktop/laptop, but they are not impressed by the interface.

I fully understand the complexity of developing these products. Just thought I would share my thoughts on future development.
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MusicHawk

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 01:16:26 pm »

Good info from JR/Jim, and good discussion.

I didn't see comments on MC local streaming via wi-fi speakers, bluetooth speakers, and devices enabled by such as Alexis and Google, etc. According to pundits citing sales numbers, this is catching on rapidly. To be useful in this new era, it seems that MC should explicitly do what users expect, without requiring kludgy additional software and advanced config. I know this is difficult, but it should be on the list.

The Alexis pitch is often (besides asking for a weather forecast) that it does music streaming, but of course from certain commercial services or tiny (by MC standards) folders of files. MC is for those of us with (often massive) personal audio libraries, loving how MC lets us manage and play our music. But is there a "it just works" place for MC in this new audio playback world?

There are several discussions here (and in prior MC version threads) about how to get MC to stream to various devices, while (important) preserving MC's distinctive playback options such as audio processing, gapless/overlapping song segues, and other MC delights. To do this fully with many external devices seems to require that MC send a continuous audio stream rather serving a series of discrete files. (Controlling MC via Alexis and similar seems secondary because if the audio is not good, usability doesn't matter.)

Skimming the Interact discussions I see wishes to be able to mix direct MC output (PC->amp/speakers) with wireless streaming (bluetooth and/or wi-fi speakers and/or Alexis and similar devices), typically in various areas of a home, with ALL AUDIO IN SYNC (like Sonos only with non-proprietary hardware).

I assume this is not easy, especially the sync aspect. Presumably the only way to control this is via MC zones, perhaps a separate zone for each type of device that might be used simultaneously? I experimented with two MC linked zones. On my MC desktop PC I created two physical outputs, hard-wired from the audio jack and from a USB audio adapter to two amps-speakers. I assigned each PC output to its own MC zone. With the zones linked, music playing from both sets of speakers was not always in sync, a slight but unpleasant difference. Probably I could have done more tinkering (spent a couple of hours), and yes the delay/echo might have arisen in the hardware rather than MC. But that's the point, as users connect the various speaker-side devices there will be timing differences. Can MC support such devices? Assuming the timing differences are stable, MC would need a straightforward way for the user to do synchronize setup (perhaps a timing slider for user to sync by ear). Could MC then keep it all in sync for day-to-day use? Or is this too much to hope for?

Please note, I'm not suggesting there is a flaw in MC. And new capabilities such as Panel and Id are very cool, as is the expanded client support. But all of this seems focused on one point of playback, and/or multiple hard-wired amps-speakers, and/or serving multiple clients that are in such separate places that audio sync doesn't matter. All good. But is it enough?

I am wondering, as many people unwrap their new Alexis, Google, wireless speakers and other remove and portable speaker gadgets at Christmas, will they work with MC, or become a replacement for MC?

The above comments are motivated by the various homes I've visited this month. I was surprised how many friends had music coming from streaming speakers/devices that (to my knowledge) would not work with MC the way I desire. I hope I'm wrong...
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Managing my media with JRiver since Media Jukebox 8 (maybe earlier), currently use Media Center for Audio/Music and Photos/Videos.
My career in media spans Radio, TV, Print, Photography, Music, Film, Online, Live, Advertising, as producer, director, writer, performer, editor, engineer, executive, owner. An exhausting but amazing ride.

JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2017, 02:41:02 pm »

You can set the number of items to display.  It's in the Panel settings.
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dtc

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2017, 03:02:08 pm »

You can set the number of items to display.  It's in the Panel settings.

If that is a response to my comment on large monitor displays, it is not the number of items to display it is the display for the track listing and the playing now screen which is mostly black. Meanwhile, there is a wealth of tag data that is not displayed. I usually have half a dozen tags displayed when I am playing on a desktop. With Panel I get no choice and only 3 things are displayed. They rest of the line is blank. And, for classical, I get Artist displayed but not composer.

I like the navigation part of Panel, it is just when you get down to the track and playing now portion that I think the display could be better.
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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2017, 12:09:58 am »

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bradberlin4700

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2017, 10:39:17 am »

JimH

I currently use a PC that has one terabyte of hard drive and I have the J. river media center 23 and is connected to my Anthems Receiver. I have to use the TV as the monitor. I would like to purchase the JRiver Box to run the music as well as video. I would like to read from a IPad or iphone to play and change my music? How can that be accomplished?
BradB
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JimH

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Re: Where We're Going
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2017, 10:48:04 am »

Please take a look at the JRiver Id board on this forum.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/board,42.0.html

The JRiver Id is described here:

www.jriver.com/Id

I'll split this to a new thread.
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