Topic: Not quite working (Read 6170 times)

raduschka · « **on:** December 30, 2017, 04:01:51 pm »

Hi there, I am new to the forum and already sorry if I m posting in the wrong place. I've been tinkering with the fully baked IdPi for 2 days and was not able to make it work as a network renderer, using wifi OR ethernet cable to 'push' HD flac files (no higher than 96k/24b) from my windows10 PC's external usb3 HDD. I've been using JRiver for years and I was able to configure both the pc and the linux versions to work well, EXCEPT that the music would skip unexpectedly and inconsistently, in a way that makes the experience a deal breaker. Generally speaking the linux version felt slow and behaved strangely (crashing for example upon maximizing the window). I played with the buffering size of the audio device, which is an audiophilleo2. I tried playing from memory, modified prebuffering settings, ticked/unticked most everything, turned off spectrograph etc, I was not able to make the IdPi play even one track without stops, short or long. Can anyone please help? I'd love to make it work...
Thanks
and happy new year!
ps: forgot to mention that i've tried all kinds of settings in the dnla servers' settings. I tend to stick with original format, no conversion

kolia · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2017, 05:33:19 pm »

Have you tried to use it as a client of a JRiver server library (in other words, do not use DLNA)?

raduschka · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2017, 06:03:14 pm »

Hi , I've just removed all dlna references from the settings on both devices, unchecked the 3 options ( renderer, server, remote) and just loaded the library (not the idpi yet, I am using the amd pc I am hoping to replace with the idpi). It seems to work. So I guess this is what it means to use jriver as a client, without dlna? Is there a chance that the idpi might not skip in this configuration versus the dlna one?
I made sure there is no conversion happening on the server jriver.
thank you very much

raduschka · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2017, 07:18:01 pm »

i've tried the new configuration. I encounter the same problem. One track played flawlessly, then the next stuttered and never recovered from stuttering. Then the next stutters at the beginning, once, then plays well.
now a 44khz 16b flac file just stops and buffers forever, then plays again

it has also become obvious that running the idpi as client (no dlna) forces me to attach a screen and use it in GUI mode, since jremote will not detect changes to the client library it is supposed to control, even though said library does automatically sync with the server library. If there is a workaround please help

update: reverted to using idpi as dlna renderer for convenience ( no screen, jremote ). I have tracks that, upon hitting play, crash the idpi and i have to unplug it and replug it :-(

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2017, 10:40:34 pm »

Quote from: raduschka on December 30, 2017, 06:03:14 pm

Hi , I've just removed all dlna references from the settings on both devices, unchecked the 3 options ( renderer, server, remote) and just loaded the library (not the idpi yet, I am using the amd pc I am hoping to replace with the idpi). It seems to work. So I guess this is what it means to use jriver as a client, without dlna? Is there a chance that the idpi might not skip in this configuration versus the dlna one?
I made sure there is no conversion happening on the server jriver.
thank you very much

You need to have "Media Network" on when you're trying to play to or from another machine.

raduschka · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2017, 08:03:46 am »

thank you

I've tried almost everything, all dlna configurations seem to do what they were intended to do, i can control everything just fine, but there is not one song, 96khz or 44khz, 16b or 24 b that will play without skipping at least once. I'm unfortunately at the end of my wits.
The behaviour is identical when on a wired connection and also when the same files are played from a usb 3 external drive connected directly to the idpi, in headless or GUI mode. With or without dlna activated. It appears as though the id lacks computing power, for whatever reason. The skipping was considerably worse while jriver was importing the 2tb library. But it still skips no matter what i do, even if there is no background activity (that I know of :-))

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2017, 09:32:37 am »

If it's skipping on 44.1/16, then I don't know what it could be.

What is the USB drive? Not a USB stick, is it?

I've used the IdPi a lot as a renderer and also serving files and it's pretty reliable.

JimH · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2017, 09:34:45 am »

Are you using it as a server and playing somewhere else? Sorry if you've said above.

DLNA as a server isn't the best way to connect a client running MC. Use Library Server instead. The wiki has a topic.

raduschka · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2017, 12:01:31 pm »

Hi, I'm using it either with the usb3 drive connected directly to one of its usb ports or as a dlna renderer OR as a client, over wifi or wired, GUI or headless. In all of these scenarios it skips, pops or stops to buffer :-( I play to it from the server, or I play from the loaded network library, I use jremote or the GUI with usb mouse/keyboard, etc... I increased the prebuffering, the device buffer etc... There's an audiophilleo2 usb to spdif converter between the idpi and the dac but same happens with a dragonfly...
In the same scenario (but with another wifi dongle obviously) my amd PC works flawlessly. I wish it worked, it seems like such an elegant replacement for a clunky PC.
But there's not much left to try, or is there?
thanks
ps: the server is an i7 intel pc with usb3 ports and the music is on a usb3 hdd (all the hdd's I mention are toshiba canvio). This PC has yet to skip once :-) It runs the 64b 23 JRiver MC

JimH · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2017, 04:36:02 pm »

In Windows Explorer, select Network, then enter the IP address of the Id. Here's an example:

\\192.168.1.1

You should see two folders on the Id:

External Storage
Internal Storage

Navigate to the Media folder on Internal and drop a few files there. MC should find them. If not add the folder to the auto import settings.

That will put files on the IdPi itself and settle the question of whether it works.

raduschka · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2017, 06:09:10 pm »

brilliant idea! I've just listened to 3 hd flac files (96k/24b) directly from the internal media folder and they played like a breeze. Then I hooked up the external hard drive and played them by opening them from the JRiver file>open media menu. Same! They played perfectly!
What now? I ve noticed that the wifi connexion is at 67%. The idpi is about 3 meters away from the router.
I still have no idea where to start tinkering with the other scenarios. I'd love to use it as a wireless renderer and remotely control the server's zones (one of them is the Id) through JRemote. I'd rather not hook up relatively noisy external drives to it.
But there is something somewhere that makes it skip and buffer...
I'd really love to make it work!!
happy new year and thanks for the help
PS: I have an usb wifi 'dongle' with huge antennae that is supposed to be dual band etc, but I can't figure out how to use it with the Pi. The Pi won't just recognize it. I'm a windows person

raduschka · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2017, 07:00:22 pm »

it plays over wifi, as a client, but erratically. It is hard to tell at this point, but even logging in with jremote seems to disturb the playing momentarily. I'm trying to find out if any software interferes with the streaming. Anti virus (avast free edition). PIA (VPN client). Teamviewer?

It plays perfectly for some time and then boom, on a new track or on the same one it buffers, stutters etc
Any ideas?
thank you
Update: tried it as client to my other pc which has only jriver installed and a few choice programs and it still hopelessly stutters here and there, buffering slowly. So what s left to experiment with? The router?

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2018, 06:57:06 am »

Good to hear that you've made some progress.

It could be the power supply not being adequate for the USB devices connected.

What is connected and are the devices powered by the Id's USB?

You can get a larger capacity power supply for the Id or use a powered USB hub.

Try a Google search for USB power problems with the RPi.

https://www.google.com/search?q=raspberry+pi+power+supply+problems&oq=raspberry+pi+power+supply+problems

raduschka · « **Reply #13 on:** January 01, 2018, 08:45:15 am »

I read about the terrible usb issues :-)
My idpi has one self powered usb to spdif converter, one keyboard, one wireless mouse and one external hdd that is usb powered.
I manage to play 192/24 flac files without a problem from the sd card AND the hard drive (except perhaps when i import all 2T of music from it. Then it seems to skip, more research is necessary.
However, as soon as playing over wifi or ethernet cable is involved, it stutters and struggles on any material with both my pc's running win10, including the one that has almost only JRiver installed on it. It also hangs often and i have to unplug it :-(
I have no idea what i can do next. Thank you for any suggestions

JimH · « **Reply #14 on:** January 01, 2018, 08:49:47 am »

If it were only a problem with wifi, I'd have some suggestions, but if it happens on a wired connection, that's very strange.

Please describe how and what you play. Are you using MC to play to the device? What files? What are the steps? Test without the hard drive attached to the IdPi.

raduschka · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2018, 09:01:13 am »

Hi,
I ve tried playing with and without the external drive attached. No change
I m playing 44/16, 96/24 flac files using latest 23 mc, 64b built as a server. The idpi mc is either in client mode, where i load the server pc's library or in dlna renderer mode, where i see it on the server pc and can play to it from there ( by enabling dlna controller on the server pc) .
The library loads quickly. The idpi is in gui mode. I use a wireless mouse to control it, or jremote on my android phone.
Music starts playing after buffering slowly. Then it stutters. Sometimes it stops to buffer again slowly.
Prebuffering is set at 6 s, audio device at default (5ms i think).
Audio conversion: none, original format. ( On the server)
Audio output device: hw, audiophilleo 2, no conversions (on idpi)

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2018, 09:14:08 am »

Try testing only 44.1 / 16 for a while, just to see if it makes a difference.

Try testing only playback to the device from your server.

Try using headphones or another device plugged into audio out.

All of these, just to try to isolate where the problem may be.

raduschka · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2018, 09:15:52 am »

Great. I will today and report back. Thank you

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2018, 09:15:59 am »

Quote

There's an audiophilleo2 usb to spdif converter between the idpi and the dac

We don't see this kind of device very often. It would be good to test without it for a while.

Discussion of convertors at Head-Fi

raduschka · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2018, 09:17:19 am »

I ll try the dragonfly usb dac

raduschka · « **Reply #20 on:** January 01, 2018, 09:44:32 am »

...but when it plays files from the ssd and the usb drive the spdif converter does not pose any problems, even with higher bit flacs. I believe it is safe to assume that the converter is low on the list of potential culprits
Also, if it matters, I m only using it because my audio note dac does not have an usb input.

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** January 01, 2018, 12:15:28 pm »

In solving problems like this, it's probably not a good idea to assume anything.

What else does the DAC have in the way of connections?

raduschka · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2018, 12:19:41 pm »

Of course, assuming is just a temporary heuristic tool :-)
The dac only has spdif in.
Idpi has been playing well from attached usb drive, only skipping when doing background tasks such as importing and matching for external changes. With those off, no skipping.

On my other pc's these background tasks do not interfere with playing, of course.

raduschka · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2018, 02:28:18 pm »

i have just found this: playing perfectly from attached usb drive, until I started scrolling down the library in jremote on my android phone!
i could replicate the stuttering several times by just scrolling down. Stuttering ensues immediately.
Of course, I am logged into the jriver on the idpi.
Help!

raduschka · « **Reply #24 on:** January 02, 2018, 10:32:00 am »

hi Jim,

I haven t been able to make this work, it skips slightly even when playing from the usb drive. I am going to return it in the next days. I'll communicate with Deanna for details. Thanks a lot for the support!

bob · « **Reply #25 on:** January 02, 2018, 04:00:38 pm »

More of an FYI than anything.
JRemote forces MC to build the thumbnails if they are missing. Since they are built upon demand they are likely not there when first scrolling through a list.
On a Pi this takes a while and a heavy amount of CPU which likely explains what you are seeing.

You can make MC on the IdPi build the thumbs all at once, it's in the options, search for "missing" and you'll see Build Missing Thumbnails.
You can start the process and wait until it completes before trying playback.

raduschka · « **Reply #26 on:** January 02, 2018, 04:12:17 pm »

thank you for helping out! I had actually thought about that and made sure MC was not importing the whole library and that the thumbnail rebuilding and other such tasks (matching for external changes etc) were not running. It's exasperating because no matter what I throw at it it just won't play without skipping (ever so slightly in the best case). Exasperating is a strong word, it s just that it 's a demanding research environment, with the problem occuring randomly, at large intervals. I've been on it for about three days now and I've given up.
I wrote to Deanna.
Thanks again

raduschka · « **Reply #27 on:** January 02, 2018, 04:21:24 pm »

i remember you once guided me through jremote a few years back and we spent a few days back and forth with debugging until all was solved. In case you think there's any use in me pursuing this i can do it for another day,...but not much longer :-)
I put everything back the way it was before, unplugged all cables, moved monitors around etc. I myself do not see any solution any more, but I am no expert. If you have any idea, please let me know. But as you said, if it skips on a wired connection, heck, if it skips with an usb drive....
I have 4 identical usb powered usb drives, so no luck trying much else.
I think it s best to return it.
Too bad I m in canada and the shipping will be double, but it sounded like a good idea :-) A Schnappsidee, as they say in German, although i was not drunk

JimH · « **Reply #28 on:** January 02, 2018, 04:25:52 pm »

I'm sorry it didn't work for you. I've used the same device a lot with no skipping. I'm guessing that something is drawing too much power. The USB drives could.

bob · « **Reply #29 on:** January 02, 2018, 04:30:21 pm »

Quote from: raduschka on January 02, 2018, 04:21:24 pm

i remember you once guided me through jremote a few years back and we spent a few days back and forth with debugging until all was solved. In case you think there's any use in me pursuing this i can do it for another day,...but not much longer :-)
I put everything back the way it was before, unplugged all cables, moved monitors around etc. I myself do not see any solution any more, but I am no expert. If you have any idea, please let me know. But as you said, if it skips on a wired connection, heck, if it skips with an usb drive....
I have 4 identical usb powered usb drives, so no luck trying much else.
I think it s best to return it.
Too bad I m in canada and the shipping will be double, but it sounded like a good idea :-) A Schnappsidee, as they say in German, although i was not drunk

I regularly play 192k on my IdPi at home so I know it works. I have a decent but not spectacular wireless connection. Of course wired is better but you can do 192k on wireless.

It's up to you of course but you could try building the thumbs to see it that solves it. Since it uses a bunch of CPU it could be the reason for the skip, even from the local drive.
What I'd do is look under Help->System Info. When that screen shows up you will see Processing under there Thumbnails built. If it's less than 100% you can do
Tools->Options->Tree and View-> ... Build Missing Thumbnails... and let it run. There will be a status in the action window. This can take hours on a IdPi if you have a lot of tracks.

raduschka · « **Reply #30 on:** January 02, 2018, 04:42:02 pm »

I also know it COULD run , don't worry :-) It s still underwhelming to see it's phased by little tasks and puny usb drives, but hey.

Ok, I'll plug everything back in and see if this changes anything, I'll report back later. But I somehow have the feeling I've been there.
We,ll see.

Thanks

raduschka · « **Reply #31 on:** January 02, 2018, 05:07:38 pm »

4% thumbnail
6% audio analyzed
no tools running.

Can I assume no process is hogging the cpu's power if it says 'no tools running'? Or do I have to let it get to 100% on those two tasks first?

thx

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** January 02, 2018, 05:37:13 pm »

What Bob is saying, in case it isn't clear, is that the Pi could be suddenly loaded down if JRemote started asking MC to build thumbnails. Thumbnails are normally built as you scroll, but if that is what causes the problems you're seeing, then you can force MC to build them all at once. Which might take a while.

Bob's advice is excellent. I should have thought of it.

raduschka · « **Reply #33 on:** January 02, 2018, 05:46:33 pm »

I hadn t realized it was Bob answering, sorry, I thought it was Jim. Thank you both. I m doing just that now, importing the 2Tb library, building thumbnails, analyzing audio. Hd music is playing at the same time, i m scrolling on jremote. Playback is impeccable somehow.
I hope it stays this way, if it does I can use it with the usb drive.
My initial goal was to use it as a dlna renderer.
Ah, wait, it's s just skipped a bit ( you know, the pop or click that sounds like a reading error although the file is in perfect shape). Of course i know the file does not click or pop, in case you re wondering :-)

JimH · « **Reply #34 on:** January 02, 2018, 06:01:36 pm »

Does it skip if you don't scroll in JRemote?

raduschka · « **Reply #35 on:** January 02, 2018, 06:16:02 pm »

Yes, scrolling through jremote makes it stop playback altogether, right now as it s importing and building.
I hope it s not alarming that a thermometer warning sign has popped up in a corner of the screen

raduschka · « **Reply #36 on:** January 03, 2018, 11:43:44 am »

Hi. It finished building the thumbnails yesterday and then played everything beautifully from the usb drive to the dac or to jremote on my phone.
This morning i started over with the pi as client. Skipping as expected while building thumbnails for the new loaded library. So i let it di its thing. But now it s blocked, temperature waRning shows in the corner... I have to unplug it again.
Nothing obstructs the case, temperature is 19 celsius in the room.

6pm. With all tasks completed, local library loaded (usb hdd), i boot into headless mode. Temperature warning, hdd seems very active, no way of accessing the idpi through jremote or otherwise.
It s been a busy four days :-)

bob · « **Reply #37 on:** January 04, 2018, 12:54:47 pm »

Quote from: raduschka on January 03, 2018, 11:43:44 am

Hi. It finished building the thumbnails yesterday and then played everything beautifully from the usb drive to the dac or to jremote on my phone.
This morning i started over with the pi as client. Skipping as expected while building thumbnails for the new loaded library. So i let it di its thing. But now it s blocked, temperature waRning shows in the corner... I have to unplug it again.
Nothing obstructs the case, temperature is 19 celsius in the room.

6pm. With all tasks completed, local library loaded (usb hdd), i boot into headless mode. Temperature warning, hdd seems very active, no way of accessing the idpi through jremote or otherwise.
It s been a busy four days :-)

You can reduce the thumbnail threading priority to low it will make it slower but could help with the cpu temp.

raduschka · « **Reply #38 on:** January 04, 2018, 01:03:48 pm »

Thank you, I ve tried that too, now that I'm more familiar than ever with MC's fine details. The IDpi crashed on me a couple of times doing inevitable tasks, such as loading the server's library, or building thumbnails even with low thread priority. So I think it would be wise to return it. I am waiting for Deanna's answer with instructions for a return. My main rationale is that even if I manage to make it work locally in a stable configuration, I'll constantly need to update its local library from my main computer (almost daily) and given the Pi's apparent performances when accomplishing background tasks that would render it useless for... music playing.
Thank you for your support, both of you.

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Author Topic: Not quite working (Read 6170 times)