Topic: Audio option question (Read 10636 times)

zonka · « **on:** March 11, 2018, 03:22:45 pm »

Just set up MC23 with a Nuc running Windows 10 with hdmi to my Marantz receiver. While playing a 192/24 flac file I get these options:

1) Default audio (direct sound) "not a direct connection" - says 192/24
what does "not a direct connection" mean?
2) Realtek 24 bit Wasapi - says 192/32 (direct connection) but no sound coming out....
3) Marantz AVR (Wasapi) - says 192/16 - "not enough bits to output the input directly"
what does the "not enough bits..." thing mean?

I would assume I would want option 3 since that is my receiver but I can't figure out why it won't play the 24 bits.

Also, I was recently using a Linux setup with the Nuc and it played everything with the 192/32 direct connection with ALSA (my receiver had no problem playing it). Now I've got this issue with Windows 10.
Just really confused as to what to choose and what all this is telling me.

Thanks

RD James · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2018, 04:09:14 pm »

DirectSound is a non-exclusive (shared) audio output. All audio is passed through the Windows Mixer, which will resample it if it's a different rate from the source; e.g. 44.1kHz input and 192kHz output.
WASAPI or ASIO (if supported) are exclusive outputs that do not allow other applications to play audio at the same time, since they bypass the Windows Mixer. If you send it a 44.1kHz input you get a 44.1kHz output etc.

"Not enough bits..." means just that. Your AVR seems to only be accepting a 16-bit signal (though that is unusual) which means that if you play a 24-bit track, it will be down-converted to 16-bit.
It's generally nothing to be concerned about as long as you set the dither mode in Media Center to TPDF, but I'd want to investigate why the AVR is set to 16-bit.
Lossy audio formats also decode to floating-point, so for example: while the source may have been a 16-bit CD it will decode to 32-bit floating point if it's encoded to a lossy format like MP3 or AAC, which is more than most audio devices support natively. In that case it's just informative rather than a problem.

If you have changed the device settings yourself, I would recommend that you restore them back to the default 'automatic' option.
If it's on automatic and is not working correctly, it seems like the driver may not be accurately reporting the formats that the device supports.
I would try selecting either "24-bit" or "24-bit (padded)" and see if that works. Maybe select something like 48kHz in Output Format too (inside DSP Studio). A 24-bit output is more important than a high sample rate.

zonka · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2018, 05:30:27 pm »

This is aggravating...an 88.2/24 file says output of 88.2/24 bit (padded).
Why the "padded"? What does that mean?
This receiver's DAC can handle 192/24 and beyond, not sure why it isn't being played to my receivers specs.

RD James · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2018, 05:40:13 pm »

Quote from: zonka on March 11, 2018, 05:30:27 pm

This is aggravating...an 88.2/24 file says output of 88.2/24 bit (padded).
Why the "padded"? What does that mean?
This receiver's DAC can handle 192/24 and beyond, not sure why it isn't being played to my receivers specs.

Padded means that it is a 24-bit output inside a 32-bit container. Some devices - often HDMI - do not like 24-bit signals.
Internal DAC capabilities are not always matched to the type of input that the device can accept. Check Windows' sound settings to see what the maximum is that you can select for it.
Assuming that you are connected via HDMI, it's possible that your video card does not have the bandwidth to support 24/192, which could explain why you can do 16/192 or 24/88.2.

zonka · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2018, 05:50:14 pm »

But here's the weird thing....I just had this same machine with a Linux setting and every file I played said output was 192/32 or 96/32, etc... While using ALSA.
I am returning that Nuc and bought an identical one and put Windows 10 because it is easier for me.
None of the hardware has changed leading me to think it is a driver issue in Win10 but all the drivers are saying they have the most current version...
Still looking for answers.
Thanks for any/all suggestions.

RD James · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2018, 06:10:49 pm »

Quote from: zonka on March 11, 2018, 05:50:14 pm

But here's the weird thing....I just had this same machine with a Linux setting and every file I played said output was 192/32 or 96/32, etc... While using ALSA.
I am returning that Nuc and bought an identical one and put Windows 10 because it is easier for me.
None of the hardware has changed leading me to think it is a driver issue in Win10 but all the drivers are saying they have the most current version...
Still looking for answers.
Thanks for any/all suggestions.

I'm not too familiar with Linux, but is ALSA similar to DirectSound where it's not an exclusive connection and everything passes into a mixer? If it is, it probably doesn't care what input you give it (just like DirectSound).

zonka · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2018, 10:18:16 am »

I don't believe it is. I think it is like Wasapi. Either way I know I can get 24/192 and above on my Marantz 1608. I've gotten it before in different players.
I've read older posts that MC users have had a similar issue. Just curious if any of the board experts have some options for me to try.
All my drivers are the most current. Should I be looking for a specific older windows 10 driver?

robt · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2018, 12:00:24 pm »

Your Marantz seems to have a USB input. Have you thought of using that for audio files and then the sound card issues are solved as its direct from the NUC?

The spec says it supports up to 192/24 bit and DSD via that input. I use USB from my pc to a Dac and everything plays at native resolution without any issues, and previously from a NUC6 without issues (Win 10).

zonka · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2018, 12:16:53 pm »

Thanks for the idea but I haven't used a USB device because I'm constantly buying music, playing with tags, art, etc...and I don't want to have to keep bringing the drive to my main pc in another room to update my music folders.
Hdmi works at the expected sample rates and bit depth with other hardware over ethernet (my Oppo, for example) so it seems like it should here.
I just don't know if it is JRiver or the Nuc that is causing the problem. I keep finding contradictory opinions on old posts I've been reading around the net.
Thanks for the reply.

zonka · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2018, 11:13:27 pm »

I'm sorry, this is still unsolved and I need help from some of the folks at JRiver (or anyone who has experienced something like this).
Again, when playing 192/24 tracks the output says 192/16 "not enough bits...".
I have a Marantz 1608 and I know it supports beyond 192/24 and I've seen it play that on my Oppo sent to the Marantz via hdmi (as is the Nuc I'm having trouble with).
I've chosen Marantz (Wasapi) in audio options and have tried playing with all the configurations and 192/16 is the best it can get.
I've tried several different drivers for win10 and they all say 192/24 is supported.
I'm at a loss...
Also, I'm in the process of returning a Nuc Id that was running Linux on this same type Nuc and it had no problem playing 192/24 in ALSA - actually, 192/32 padded.
Any direction would be very welcome.
Thank you.

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2018, 07:19:44 am »

Did you test from Control Panel > Sounds, as RD James suggested above?

zonka · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2018, 08:05:21 am »

Yes, in control panel I have "Marantz AVR" as the selected device and it shows all options through 192 and both 16 and 24 bits.
It doesn't give me a check box or anything to choose those - it's just listing them as supported.
I tried multiple drivers. One time, after changing drivers, it only listed through 48 and only 16 bits. I deleted that one and ended up finding the newest one from last month and had it back to 192 and 24.

I don't know if this is related, or not, but I am continually losing my imported library. After any change on the Nuc, when I reopen JRiver I have a red circle by every track and says there is no track. Usually, if I reset the modem it fixes it but I'm not sure why this happens so often. I can't imagine it's related to my stated problem but I thought I would mention it just in case (plus I would l Iike to solve this issue as well).

The Big Labinski · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2018, 08:14:42 am »

Did you already test a digital connection to your Marantz receiver with TosLink?
I had a similar problem and I was able to solve this out.

zonka · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2018, 09:52:05 am »

Thank you for that suggestion (glad to hear I'm not alone in this!). I'm going to try it, but it is frustrating that I have to. I've used hdmi to connect my Oppo 103 with no problems - getting all the advertised formats, bit rates, etc... from the Oppo and the Marantz. Plus the fact that I already got the 192/32 padded with the same spec Nuc running Linux...
Again, thanks for the suggestion. I'm looking forward to trying.
Still looking to solve the hdmi situation, though:)

JimH · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2018, 10:53:39 am »

Quote from: zonka on March 13, 2018, 08:05:21 am

Yes, in control panel I have "Marantz AVR" as the selected device and it shows all options through 192 and both 16 and 24 bits.
It doesn't give me a check box or anything to choose those - it's just listing them as supported.

Did you test them there? Do they work?

zonka · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2018, 11:19:45 am »

Yes, I think windows plays back some bells. It didn't give me the option of checking each sample rate and bit depth. In configuration it just allowed me to pick front l/r and stereo.
In shared mode it asked which to choose an output and the highest option was "176/24 (studio quality)" and I heard the bells chime there. I noticed it didn't give me the option of 192/24 in shared mode but we're not running that - I'm running exclusive mode.

kr4 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2018, 03:26:14 pm »

Quote from: zonka on March 13, 2018, 09:52:05 am

I've used hdmi to connect my Oppo 103 with no problems - getting all the advertised formats, bit rates, etc... from the Oppo and the Marantz.

Feeding the AVR via HDMI from a player is quite different from feeding it from a PC. Many PCs lack the proper driver or have the driver disabled.

zonka · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2018, 03:30:14 pm »

I agree. I know it has worked albeit with a player, so I'm trying to figure out what is causing the problem. The Nuc hardware or windows 10 software.
Thanks

RD James · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2018, 07:21:19 pm »

Quote from: zonka on March 13, 2018, 03:30:14 pm

I agree. I know it has worked albeit with a player, so I'm trying to figure out what is causing the problem. The Nuc hardware or windows 10 software.
Thanks

If you are able to test the format in the Sound Control Panel, and it works (you hear the chimes) then the hardware can do it.
If that same format is not working in Media Center, it's a configuration issue.

zonka · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2018, 11:58:53 pm »

I can test it but I don't know what sampling rate and bit depth it is testing at. It just says a generic "test". I hit that button and I hear the chimes.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2018, 12:26:26 am »

Quote from: zonka on March 13, 2018, 08:05:21 am

I don't know if this is related, or not, but I am continually losing my imported library. After any change on the Nuc, when I reopen JRiver I have a red circle by every track and says there is no track.

Answered in your other thread. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114894.0.html

Quote from: zonka on March 13, 2018, 11:58:53 pm

I can test it but I don't know what sampling rate and bit depth it is testing at. It just says a generic "test". I hit that button and I hear the chimes.

Go to properties of the Playback Device, Advanced tab, and there you should see a range of bit depths and sample rates that you can test. If you can't see that, your driver doesn't support the ability. It sounds like you have been looking in the Configure dialogue for the Playback Device.

The description and images here are still valid for Windows: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Setup
All this is still good: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Exclusive_Access

The Big Labinski · « **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2018, 02:36:44 am »

Sorry it is in German, but this are my windows 10 sound properties.
Maybe it helps.

zonka · « **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2018, 07:56:29 am »

This is the main part I'm struggling with and I think might hold the answer: everywhere I've searched the net I see pictures of the properties tab that shows all the supported playback options with check boxes.
For me, it shows all the necessary options (up to 192 and including 16 and 24 bits) BUT no check boxes.
One older driver I checked only showed up to 4th sampling as an option so I updated to a newer drive error and all options up to 192 were listed again.

It's the check box thing that has me stumped.

RD James · « **Reply #23 on:** March 14, 2018, 10:09:45 am »

The Supported Formats tab lets you test and enable/disable formats for the device.
The Advanced tab gives you a list of everything available to use. Here is where you need to test that formats such as "24 bit, 19200kHz" are actually available and working. If it's not listed there, it's unlikely that Media Center can use it.

zonka · « **Reply #24 on:** March 14, 2018, 10:21:44 am »

I'll try to upload a screen shot when I get home. I have those screens but the screen for Maranatz is missing the enhancements tab. It has the supported tab but, again, no check boxes for anything (even 44.1). 192khz and 24 bits are listed as supported but I can't check them because of the check box situatuon.
If I can solve this windows issue I think I'll have my answer.

zonka · « **Reply #25 on:** March 14, 2018, 10:26:25 am »

Also, looking at your screen shot I don't see the option of 24 bits or 16 bits. Is this in another tab? Mine lists bit depth and sampling rate both on the supported format tab - but no check box.
I see your tab says Realtek (not the receiver it's connected to) - mine says Marantz.
Don't get why win10 would show things so differently.
I wonder if it's because hdmi is considered more of a video device rather than an audio device (though we know it's both) and as such, doesn't allow for the testing of the formats?
I have a new optical cable coming today. I'll plug that in and see what options I have.

RD James · « **Reply #26 on:** March 14, 2018, 01:53:25 pm »

HDMI probably specifies the formats explicitly, while TOSLINK (as pictured) can support those formats while the receiving device may not.
I don't have anything hooked up via HDMI at the moment to check.

It's the advanced tab that matters right now anyway, since it lists the formats which should be working with your device.

zonka · « **Reply #27 on:** March 14, 2018, 02:05:48 pm »

First, I really appreciate your back and forth with me and your trying to help/explain this to me.

Why is the advanced menu more important to my situation? It is only asking which want to use in shared mode. Shouldn't I be running windows and jriver in exclusive mode?

Thanks again:)

kr4 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 14, 2018, 02:43:57 pm »

Quote from: zonka on March 14, 2018, 10:26:25 am

I see your tab says Realtek (not the receiver it's connected to) - mine says Marantz.
Don't get why win10 would show things so differently.

I am running Win10 on my serverPC and I see both the posted screens with the checkboxes for my RealTek HDMI output. It lists a similar wide range of options (I didn't compare line-by-line) even though it is connected only to a small TV/monitor. I read them as indicating the capabilities of the RealTek output and not the attached device.

I have another server (running Win7) which is connected, successfully, to a Marantz prepro by HDMI but it is at my other place. I will see what the settings/displays are next weekend.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #29 on:** March 14, 2018, 03:00:35 pm »

Quote from: zonka on March 14, 2018, 02:05:48 pm

Why is the advanced menu more important to my situation?

Because it allows you to select a bit rate and sample frequency and click the Test button, to see if that sample can be played on the Marantz. Note that if you get a warning message that the device is in use and it may stop the other program from running, play the sample anyway.

As your playback device is shown as the Marantz, you are using a Windows sound driver from Marantz. So they are responsible for what is available in the properties pages, and what you can test. The driver probably queries your Marantz, knows what it can do and only displays those bit depths and sample rates. But the fact that 24/192 won't play on Windows may be a limitation of the Windows driver itself, while the Linux driver does support 24/192. That is really a question for Marantz, if it isn't explained in their manual.

kr4 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 14, 2018, 03:59:56 pm »

Quote from: RoderickGI on March 14, 2018, 03:00:35 pm

As your playback device is shown as the Marantz, you are using a Windows sound driver from Marantz.

I am not so sure. I have been using any number of AVRs/PrePros and none of them provide any drivers nor have I needed any. The Marantz shows up as an available device in MC and, in fact, shows up multiple times (direct, wasapi, ASIO,etc.). As I said, when I get up to the house on the weekend, I will post what my setup is and what it does.

mojave · « **Reply #31 on:** March 14, 2018, 04:15:17 pm »

Quote from: RoderickGI on March 14, 2018, 03:00:35 pm

As your playback device is shown as the Marantz, you are using a Windows sound driver from Marantz.

HDMI almost always shows the name in JRiver of the next or final device in the signal chain. I do video calibrations and connect my laptop to the customer's receiver to demo content after the calibration. Either the receiver or the projector (even if it has no speaker), shows up in JRiver as the audio device.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #32 on:** March 14, 2018, 04:45:35 pm »

So are you guys saying that Zonka is using a standard Windows HDMI Audio driver? In which case I guess it would be an Intel Video driver on the NUC for the iGPU, supporting HDMI Audio?

So why doesn't this work the same for everyone else? Why is Zonka having this trouble?

Fitzcaraldo215 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 14, 2018, 05:32:23 pm »

Quote from: RoderickGI on March 14, 2018, 04:45:35 pm

So are you guys saying that Zonka is using a standard Windows HDMI Audio driver? In which case I guess it would be an Intel Video driver on the NUC for the iGPU, supporting HDMI Audio?

So why doesn't this work the same for everyone else? Why is Zonka having this trouble?

I agree. There is no special HDMI driver for the Marantz or any other AVR/prepro. That is always provided as part of the GPU driver or Intel Integrated Graphics, not by Windows itself. However, is it just maybe only a HDMI handshake issue or the need to make it exclusive mode? Those issues have come up with HDMI before.

I had my share of fun and games with HDMI in the past, complicated by Windows handling of sound in conjunction with HDMI being "owned" by graphics/display drivers. Fortunately, those days are now over for me with USB audio to a DAC.

zonka · « **Reply #34 on:** March 14, 2018, 05:33:13 pm »

In my audio device options ASIO isn't even listed. Should it be?

RD James · « **Reply #35 on:** March 14, 2018, 05:40:47 pm »

Quote from: zonka on March 14, 2018, 05:33:13 pm

In my audio device options ASIO isn't even listed. Should it be?

No, I don't think Intel, AMD, or NVIDIA provide an ASIO driver for HDMI.
The question is what formats are listed in the advanced tab in Windows. If it doesn't list 24-bit 192,000Hz for example, then it's not supported.

zonka · « **Reply #36 on:** March 15, 2018, 12:31:17 am »

Found the solution! Google is my friend:) You won't believe this - please read the link below (pretty shady of Intel if you ask me), if you're interested in the fix (which is on page 2). Short version - it was the Nuc. The spec sheet said it supported up to 192/24 then, apparently, to free up bandwith they dropped it to 192/16 but never bothered to update their spec sheet. No wonder I couldn't get 192/24. The fix was in an old driver when it still supported 192/24. I got that going and it works.
Still have one question though - I'm now getting 192/24 (padded), not matter what I choose. I was trying to get 24 (in 32 container). The question is - what does the "padded" mean? Does that mean I'm still only getting 16 but the player adds some zeros? Is that still taking audio quality advantage (if there is one) of the 24 bits vs. the 16 bits?
I haven't connected the actual toslink cable yet, but when I picked that instead of my Marantz in devices it gave me the 192/32. Anyone know any reasons why it would be different than using the hdmi? I'm guessing an Intel thing, again, where it limits the capability of the hdmi connection?

https://communities.intel.com/thread/115625?start=15&tstart=0

Thanks to all those who took the time to help me with suggestions - hopefully this will help a fellow Nuc owner down the road!

The Big Labinski · « **Reply #37 on:** March 15, 2018, 08:52:33 am »

From my point of view the best on-board sound chips are from Realtek.
When I buy a motherboard I´m always looking first which sound chip is built in.
Here a list of the Realtek sound chips with spec.

http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4

The best should be the ALC1150 at the moment

mojave · « **Reply #38 on:** March 15, 2018, 10:59:18 am »

I had a different NUC issue using dual displays that I couldn't figure out for a while - and I have an HDMI generator and analyzer for troubleshooting. It was frustrating because the HDMI generator to the Samsung display worked and the HDMI analyzer from the NUC also worked. However, the NUC to the display did not work.

I found that Intel has HDMI firmware updates that aren't part of the regular Intel updates. I know you fixed the issue, but future problems may need the HDMI firmware update.

The actual solution to my problem was that the NUC needed to output 4K 30p initially to each display in order to get the display to recognize it. After that, I was able to change the output resolution and still maintain the HDMI handshake.

Quote from: zonka on March 15, 2018, 12:31:17 am

Still have one question though - I'm now getting 192/24 (padded), not matter what I choose. I was trying to get 24 (in 32 container).

There is no HDMI input that accepts 32-bit so you can't use 24 (in a 32 bit container). That option is only for ASIO output anyway.

24-bit padded means that any source content that is lower than 24-bit will be converted to 24-bit for final output via HDMI. If some of your source content is 16-bit (like ripped CDs), but the HDMI input accepts 24-bit, then the 16-bit is just padded with zeros to make it 24-bit. Increased bit-depth is just more decimal places and only helps when actual math is being done to the signal like volume control or DSP. JRiver does all processing at 64-bits. Once all the math has been done, dithering will basically round to to the highest bit depth the hardware supports.

The digital to analog converter in your Marantz is probably 32-bit. That is why it supports that input. It will still be padded unless the source bit depth is 32-bit.

RD James · « **Reply #39 on:** March 15, 2018, 02:32:03 pm »

Quote from: zonka on March 15, 2018, 12:31:17 am

I'm now getting 192/24 (padded), not matter what I choose. I was trying to get 24 (in 32 container).

They're the same thing.

Quote from: zonka on March 15, 2018, 12:31:17 am

I haven't connected the actual toslink cable yet, but when I picked that instead of my Marantz in devices it gave me the 192/32.

S/PDIF output capabilities are set by the transmitter.
Whether or not your device will accept and work with that signal is another matter.
My motherboard can output up to 24-bit 192kHz via TOSLINK, but my DAC only accepts 24/96 via that connection. (24/192 via USB)

Quote from: mojave on March 15, 2018, 10:59:18 am

There is no HDMI input that accepts 32-bit so you can't use 24 (in a 32 bit container). That option is only for ASIO output anyway.

HDMI from my NVIDIA GPUs has always used 24-bit padded.
My understanding is that it's the format the driver accepts, not necessarily what the device is sending to the receiver.

zonka · « **Reply #40 on:** March 15, 2018, 04:01:05 pm »

I think I need clarification. I've read at least two different threads that defined 24 bits padded differently. One says it is really 16 bits padded to 24 (so really a 16 bit signal). The other says 24 padded is really 24 bit padded to 32 (so really bit perfect 24).
I am sending 192/24 flacs to the player and I really need to know that I'm getting a bit perfect signal (true 24 bit).
So which is it? Does anyone know for sure?
Also, if I choose the Marantz in audio devices I get 192/24 padded (this is wasapi direct through hdmi). If I use Realtek digital wasapi (toslink) I get 192/32 - so what is the real difference? Is there any audible difference to me? Are they both playing the bit perfect 192/24 signal? And if they're the same, what's the reason for having two outputs that do the same thing with different names?

Thanks:)

RD James · « **Reply #41 on:** March 15, 2018, 05:28:36 pm »

Quote from: zonka on March 15, 2018, 04:01:05 pm

I think I need clarification. I've read at least two different threads that defined 24 bits padded differently. One says it is really 16 bits padded to 24 (so really a 16 bit signal). The other says 24 padded is really 24 bit padded to 32 (so really bit perfect 24).
I am sending 192/24 flacs to the player and I really need to know that I'm getting a bit perfect signal (true 24 bit).
So which is it? Does anyone know for sure?

It is 24 padded to 32.
16-bit can be output directly to any device. 24 cannot, which is why there is an option to pad it to 32-bits.
Padding to 32-bits has zero effect on the audio signal.

Quote from: zonka on March 15, 2018, 04:01:05 pm

Also, if I choose the Marantz in audio devices I get 192/24 padded (this is wasapi direct through hdmi). If I use Realtek digital wasapi (toslink) I get 192/32 - so what is the real difference? Is there any audible difference to me? Are they both playing the bit perfect 192/24 signal? And if they're the same, what's the reason for having two outputs that do the same thing with different names?

If the 32-bit output is actually working, it likely gets truncated to 24-bit at some point.
Proper dithering to 24-bit would give you better quality with a 24-bit DAC.

HDMI can support lossless multichannel audio, while S/PDIF is a lower bandwidth connection and can only support lossless stereo audio.
Multichannel audio has to be compressed using AC3 or DTS with S/PDIF.
For stereo audio, it largely doesn't matter what connection you use. With older devices, S/PDIF may have less jitter than HDMI, but that's generally not an issue any more.

Bit-perfect audio is overrated.
Most audio setups benefit from processing the signal with things like room correction, and volume leveling results in a better user experience even if it doesn't affect audio quality.
Just make sure that dithering in Media Center is set to TPDF.

Hendrik · « **Reply #42 on:** March 15, 2018, 06:21:25 pm »

Quote from: mojave on March 15, 2018, 10:59:18 am

There is no HDMI input that accepts 32-bit so you can't use 24 (in a 32 bit container). That option is only for ASIO output anyway.

24-bit (padded) is basically just the same thing as using 32-bit with the 24-bit flag set for ASIO. 32-bit samples with 24-bit data - thats what the padded refers to, except that 24-bit padded is used automatically, since HDMI audio drivers will signal this properly (but they generally don't support "native" 24-bit transport). It has no relation to the input signal being "padded" or anything like that.

zonka · « **Reply #43 on:** March 16, 2018, 11:05:24 pm »

For two channel listening, then, there's no real audible difference between 24 padded and 32 bits?
I'm asking because I'm not sure which audio source to use from the Nuc. The hdmi is 24 padded and the optical digital out is 32 when both are fed a 24 bit flac.

zonka · « **Reply #44 on:** March 17, 2018, 09:56:39 pm »

I really wish someone could help me with this. HDMI has way more bandwith, etc...than optical so you would think it should be superior. With all this weird driver business I wonder if it's the driver that is causing the problem. I can't think of a good reason why optical is giving me 32 bits but hdmi only 24 padded.

I had this same model Nuc running Linux and it gave me 32 bits via hdmi using ALSA. Seems like it must be a limitation with the Intel Windows driver.

RD James · « **Reply #45 on:** March 18, 2018, 02:37:56 am »

24-bit padded is the same as 24-bit. Not 32-bit.

As I explained before, HDMI negotiates supported formats between the source and the receiving device, while S/PDIF connections only know what is happening on the output.
You can set any format that the S/PDIF transmitter supports on the output side of things, but it's no guarantee that it will be properly accepted by the receiving hardware.

Since the underlying DAC hardware is 24-bit, it would not improve quality to output a 32-bit signal. If anything, that would degrade quality since it would not be getting dithered to the correct bit-depth.
As for ALSA on Linux, I still think it is more likely that it is not reporting/outputting this correctly, rather than being able to send a 32-bit signal over HDMI.

Hendrik · « **Reply #46 on:** March 18, 2018, 03:04:28 am »

Quote from: zonka on March 17, 2018, 09:56:39 pm

I can't think of a good reason why optical is giving me 32 bits but hdmi only 24 padded.

HDMI flat out just doesn't support 32-bit audio, its not in the specification, only 16/20/24. And honestly, thats not a loss. 24-bit has enough dynamic range to represent any kind of audio and push the noise floor into such a low volume that more is just not required, not to mention that there is no DAC that would be able to use that data, real-world high-end DAC hardware can barely use the full 24-bit.

If anything claims its sending 32-bit over HDMI, its probably mis-reporting the 24-bit padded format (because it looks like 32-bit to an unaware application).

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