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Author Topic: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.  (Read 2144 times)

luvmich

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Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« on: November 20, 2018, 08:43:55 pm »

I have all my audio files (mp3s) on a W2k8 server with a read only share.  My MC24 server is running on dedicated box running W10 Pro,  only thing installed is MC24.  My issue lately is I am missing cover art on random albums.  I run a program called Tag&Rename to fix and modify all my ID tags.  I run this program on the W2k8 server, it is the only way to modify the mp3s.  Anyway Tag&Renames sees the embedded cover art.   On my main computer (W10 pro), I can open up the music share and see the cover art in windows explorer.  If I open up MC24, I see no cover art. :-[

This is where it gets weird for the random missing album art files.  While I am on my main computer, if I double click a mp3 off the music share it will play in MC24 and show no cover art.  If I first copy the file to my desktop then double click, it will play in MC24 and show the correct cover art.   Not sure where the problem lies.  MC24, W2k8, or W10 Pro.  Any suggestions?
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~OHM~

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2018, 09:30:10 pm »

are your covers embedded into the mp3's? if not I seem to remember that the art needs to have a specific name, search Interact and see if you can find some relevant posts....or I'm sure a guru will be along to assist you more...good luck
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RoderickGI

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2018, 11:08:23 pm »

with a read only share.

Well, that will do it. MC needs to be able to write to a file to write tags, including embedded Cover Art if that is what you are doing.

When you have done your testing, have you used exactly the same file every time? I suspect some of your files have embedded Cover Art, and others don't.

Of course Tag&Rename works on the W2k8 server. It is being run on the server and so has read/write access to the files. It isn't using the read-only share to access them. MC is using the read-only share, so can't update tags in the files. Only in the library.

If Tag&Rename and Windows Explorer see embedded Cover Art, then so should MC. But a complication is that MC most often is showing you a Thumbnail of the Cover Art, and not the actual Cover Art image. So if MC doesn't display an image, check if all thumbnails been built in MC? Check using the MC System Info tool.

This is where it gets weird for the random missing album art files.  While I am on my main computer, if I double click a mp3 off the music share it will play in MC24 and show no cover art. 

Okay, this bit is a bit weird. But if you are using Windows Explorer to double click on the files, then you are just asking MC to play the files directly. They aren't being imported into MC at that time, unless you have MC set to do that. Yes, there is a setting for that. So there is no thumbnail in the MC library to display. But when I do that test, MC displays the Cover Art from within the file. To could be some artifact of using a read-only share. But are you sure you are testing with the same file, and that is has a Cover Art image in it?

If you try to play the same file from within MC, from the share, does it play and show Cover Art? It should, if there is art in the file, or next to the file, and MC has built a Thumbnail of it. Check the [Image file] tag (shown as just "Image" in the tag window) to see if it has Cover Art embedded. i.e. Does it say "Inside file".

If I first copy the file to my desktop then double click, it will play in MC24 and show the correct cover art.

In this case MC has full read/write access to the file, and it works correctly. This does of course imply that your files have embedded Cover Art.


Make your share read/write. Have a proper backup solution in place if you are concerned about losing or damaging files.

Read the Wiki articles on Cover Art and Thumbnails as well. Make sure you understand and have the correct settings for how you want to use MC.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

luvmich

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2018, 06:04:56 am »

The cover art is embedded and I have gone as far as replacing the jpg with a different sized one.  Still no luck seeing it in MC.  Again this is random, I run all my mp3 albums though tag&rename.  All mp3s have embedded cover art.  There is not one "Folder.jpg" on the music share.  If the read only share was an issue, then it would effect all the other albums.  I even prevent W2k8 from making thumb.db.  I don't like clutter on my server, no hidden files, no jpgs, no desktop.ini, only mp3s.  "Drive letter:\\(Artist)\(Album)\(Title.mp3). 

This phenomenon is also only recently been happening.
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~OHM~

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2018, 06:21:48 am »

then theres something in your story your not telling us, now this may be a case that you don't realize it...all is well with my set up and let me tell you I have over 400 thousand files
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JimH

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2018, 07:13:04 am »

To build thumbnails, MC has to have read/write access. 
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Vocalpoint

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2018, 04:41:21 pm »

Again this is random, I run all my mp3 albums though tag&rename.  All mp3s have embedded cover art.

I also use Tag n Rename - and I also have encountered odd ball issues with using it to embed art and then expecting MC to see that art correctly. I too found sporadic issues in the past where I would tag everything up in T&R and then find "things" missing within MC.

I suspect that as much as we want to believe tags and art storage is unversal between apps - the reality is much more disappointing.

I stopped the madness by promoting MC to handle all tagging duties and especially the embedding of cover art. I still use T&R to "rename" items from time to time but the time it took to troubleshoot metadata issues between them was not worth the effort.

Another important note - I do all tagging on my workstation and then copy then freshly tagged files out to the server. Not sure why you need to run T&R on the server?

VP
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Spike1000

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2018, 02:39:33 am »

I don't like clutter on my server, no hidden files, no jpgs, no desktop.ini, only mp3s.

And I thought my OCD was bad  :)

Relax, spend your time listening to more music rather than deleting desktop.ini files ;D

Spike

luvmich

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2018, 06:52:47 pm »

To build thumbnails, MC has to have read/write access.

If MC needs r/w access, why do 99.99% work fine with read only access.  Close to all 165,00 mp3 have embedded cover are.  MC doesnt need to write anythhing. 
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luvmich

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2018, 07:13:03 pm »

I also use Tag n Rename - and I also have encountered odd ball issues with using it to embed art and then expecting MC to see that art correctly. I too found sporadic issues in the past where I would tag everything up in T&R and then find "things" missing within MC.

I suspect that as much as we want to believe tags and art storage is unversal between apps - the reality is much more disappointing.

I stopped the madness by promoting MC to handle all tagging duties and especially the embedding of cover art. I still use T&R to "rename" items from time to time but the time it took to troubleshoot metadata issues between them was not worth the effort.

Another important note - I do all tagging on my workstation and then copy then freshly tagged files out to the server. Not sure why you need to run T&R on the server?

VP

I actually tag mp3s (w/T&R) on a workstation then copy to the w2k8 server.  Only once in a blue moon will I run T&R on the server.

I've been using T&R for 9+ years,  It might be time :'(   What doesn't make sense is once I copy the mp3 off the server MC see's the embedded cover art. 

Im guessing i might just have to start using MC to fix mp3 metadata.
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luvmich

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2018, 07:28:50 pm »

And I thought my OCD was bad  :)

Relax, spend your time listening to more music rather than deleting desktop.ini files ;D

Spike

Nine years ago I make a scheduled bat file to "e:\\del /s /a:h *.ini"
                                                                   "e:\\del /s /a:h *.db"
                                                                   "e:\\del /s *.jpg"

I have not had a OCD moment since I created the bat file.

I just want my cover art.  If I didn't I would still be using Winamp :-\
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RoderickGI

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2018, 09:35:14 pm »

What doesn't make sense is once I copy the mp3 off the server MC see's the embedded cover art. 

If I understand that statement correctly, you copy the mp3 from the server to somewhere else, and then without doing anything else, MC "sees" the embedded Cover Art, as evidenced by the thumbnails showing up in MC?

Makes perfect sense. When you copy the file off the server it triggers a File Event. MC sees the File Event, looks at the file, and builds a thumbnail for it because it doesn't already have one. What doesn't make sense is why MC doesn't see the Cover Art when you copy a file to the server, particularly if MC imports the file at that time. But if you copy lots to the server, MC will work through the files to add thumbnails. Whereas when you generate a File Event MC will immediately look at that file and build the thumbnail.

Remember, Cover Art and Thumbnails are two different things, thumbnails being smaller versions of the original Cover Art image, in three sizes, and stored in a set of indexed files for fast access by MC for quick display in MC Views. Which is most likely why;
If I open up MC24, I see no cover art. :-[
MC simply hasn't built the Thumbnail to display in its Views yet. Well, at least that is one possibility.

Except that I think Vocalpoint's observation is an important one here. For some files, Tag & Rename doesn't write Cover Art tags in a consistent way that MC can read.


Im guessing i might just have to start using MC to fix mp3 metadata.

I think that would be a good idea, and if you do that, make the share Read/Write access, so that MC can write tag updates to the files. Otherwise tags will have one value in the MC Library, and another in the file itself, meaning if you ever import them again into MC, tags will be wrong.

Take a look at the "Manage Library Fields" function in MC, and use the drop-down filter (top left) to "Show only fields saved in tags". There are quite a few. Whether a field is written to the file tags is defined at the field level, as shown by the "Save in file tags (when possible)" checkbox. When you use a Read Only share, and then make any change in MC, all those tags will get out of sync.

If MC needs r/w access, why do 99.99% work fine with read only access.  Close to all 165,00 mp3 have embedded cover are.  MC doesnt need to write anythhing.

Actually, I think MC only needs Read/Write access to the Thumbnails files, which are on the PC running MC. I don't think it needs write access to the original mp3 files to build thumbnails. But I could be wrong there.

I'm still not sure how many PCs you have involved in your whole setup, but I know there is a "W2k8 server with a read only share" and a "MC24 server is running on dedicated box running W10 Pro", then I think you have a Workstation that acts as a MC Client at some times, or your MC Server would have no need to be a server and could just be a standalone copy of MC (i.e. Media Network wouldn't need to be running). So the thumbnail files would exist on the MC24 Server, and separately on the Workstation MC Client, as each installation of MC maintains its own thumbnails files. Of course, each MC installation has Read/Write access to its local disks where the thumbnails files are located.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

~OHM~

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 10:21:49 am »

see now I prefer Mp3Tag

https://www.mp3tag.de/en/
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luvmich

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2019, 10:16:43 am »

Did a fresh install of MC24.0.75 on my new laptop.  Now it is missing 95% of cover art on my new laptop.  On the MC24 server I see all the Cover art.  I run JRemote on my android phone and I see all the cover art.  My old laptop has most of the Cover art.  Web view has all the cover art.

Seems to be a server-client issue.

When I play the mp3 on the client, the cover art shows up on the now playing, but never in the audio view.
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JimH

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2019, 06:06:04 pm »

If you mean that cover art is missing in MC24, please read the wiki on cover art. 
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RoderickGI

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2019, 08:19:40 pm »

Leave your new laptop connected to the MC Server with the Client and the Server active for a long time, and the Client will build the thumbnails required for the Audio View. Scrolling the Audio View should see them built as well.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

luvmich

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Re: Weird Behavior relating to embedded cover art.
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2019, 05:24:52 pm »

Leave your new laptop connected to the MC Server with the Client and the Server active for a long time, and the Client will build the thumbnails required for the Audio View. Scrolling the Audio View should see them built as well.
I tried leaving my new laptop on for a whole week with no success.  I was also still having problems with cover art randomly on my "old" laptop.  I threw in the towel.

I got so tried of the randomness of cover art, that is why I wiped the entire library and started fresh.  Bingo! All cover art on all PCs and Phones.  Only con is the "Recent Albums" list is toast :-\ 

I also read in the forums that windows mapped share drives might cause problems, so I created "//192.168.1.2/data2/music" (not mapped) instead "y:/music" (mapped)
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