Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Spike1000]

Does JRiver have any 'visio' style 'topology'/Network diagrams for the a Client/Server/Renderer/DNLA configuration setup I can adapt? I want to write up the entire MC Client/Server/Renderer/DNLA configuration thing for my own benefit as it's currently far from obvious and pretty confusing for young players.

I may even do another video once I confident I know what I'm talking about to publish it

Spike

[JimH]

The Media Network topic on the wiki is pretty thorough and makes a good starting point for new users.

Sometimes adding more documentation can just make understanding harder.

[blgentry]

I respectfully disagree regarding the Media Network documentation.  There's a lot there, but it's extremely difficult to get a complete picture, or even a good "recipe" for how to do what you want to do.

I'm not belittling the effort that has gone into writing the current documentation on MN.  That said, it would benefit greatly from a re-write or at least re-org.

IMHO.

Brian.

[JimH]

Sure.  What's missing?

[Spike1000]

JRiver is very focused on 'technical' things, you could say it is a 'technical' company, the product is very technical (and very good at it too) and largely sold to a technical audience. However, it's a bit lacking the 'soft' non-technical things; eg marketing, UI design, walk-throughs, recipes, user guides, how tos, tutorials, video guides.

The overview is 4 lines and a picture that doesn't really tell me anything. There are no examples or sufficient explanation of the various possibilities as the next section is how to configure it.

IMHO it should be more like this:

MC can be used a part of a 'Media Network'.....

A Media Network is.......

The type of supported devices are..... DLNA, ids, MC Clients, Android,

The ways to connect these type of devices is... Because... This it what it can do. .... This is what it can't do... This is what you need. .. . Here is an example of setting up a device .....

The ways to connect these type of devices is... Because... This it what it can do. .... This is what it can't do... This is what you need. .. . Here is an example of setting up a device .....

The ways to connect these type of devices is... Because... This it what it can do. .... This is what it can't do... This is what you need. .. . Here is an example of setting up a device .....

Overvierw of DLNA settings. ..   This is what DLNA does. . . Why you'd use DLNA, explanation of the terms used in MC, these are what you'd need to configure to do. . .

Overview of Zones . ... What are they, what can they do, why would you use them, why would wouldn't you use them

Overview of the MC network. . . Clent, conversion settings and their impact.. . .

Etc

That's just me thinking aloud. .  There are some Home Network examples but the first one relates to MC17, so that's 8 years old???

BLGentry is right, there's no way to get the complete picture or even a good recipe from what's there. A complex product is going to need suitable documentation to back it up, at the moment it's just not there.

Writing documentation is tough, but it's an excellent way of reviewing the processes in the product. If the documentation is too hard write/follow are the processes to as straightforward as they need to be.

MC is an excellent tool, it does many things, it does  many of them very well, but getting that clear picture/overview/recipe of what it can do and how to does it is way more difficult than it should and sometimes impossible.

If there's one thing I'd recommend to evangelise about your product is invest in, let's say, two days of staff time to produce some walk through videos. Any format, long, short, overviews, deep dives whatever. It's far faster than writing Wiki pages. Just see the response, see what happens. You've seen my videos, laptop, headset, 2 VMs, free software, some notes to follow, done in 1 take sat on my bed. You don't need fancy equipment or a studio, just the ability to talk about something you understand (and I'm not even particularly good at that  )

You didn't get to where you are without taking risks in business, invest in a couple of days of staff time and see what happens. . .

Spike

[mattkhan]

a live view of the MC network would be v useful, atm it is somewhat opaque and involves a degree of guesswork

I asked for something similar (albeit more limited in scope) in https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,119218.msg825532.html#msg825532

another way to look at it is extending audio path to a network client so show every single step along the way from server to renderer (and then also propagate that info back to the server so the server can show it as well)

this is definitely a simple thing that would be very very useful

[mattkhan]

IMHO it should be more like this:

MC can me used a part of a 'Media Network'.....

A Media Network is.......

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Getting_Started#How_do_I_configure_Media_Center_to.... is intended to cover this sort of ground

[Spike1000]

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Getting_Started#How_do_I_configure_Media_Center_to.... is intended to cover this sort of ground

Good point, well put 

That has more info and helps but it still seems to be disjointed. Maybe with the addition of some overviews/recipes the underlying docs could be brought together into a more process based approach?

Spike

[JimH]

JRiver is very focused on 'technical' things, you could say it is a 'technical' company, the product is very technical (and very good at it too) and largely sold to a technical audience. However, it's a bit lacking the 'soft' non-technical things; eg marketing, UI design, walk-throughs, recipes, user guides, how tos, tutorials, video guides.

The JRiver customer base is a lot bigger than just the "technical audience".  You can see this by reading the questions that are asked on the forum, and the people asking are just those brave enough to do so.  A lot of people just read the forum and don't ask.

I don't disagree that we have weaknesses.

The overview is 4 lines and a picture that doesn't really tell me anything. There are no examples or sufficient explanation of the various possibilities as the next section is how to configure it.

IMHO it should be more like this:

MC can be used a part of a 'Media Network'.....

A Media Network is.......

The type of supported devices are..... DLNA, ids, MC Clients, Android,

The ways to connect these type of devices is... Because... This it what it can do. .... This is what it can't do... This is what you need. .. . Here is an example of setting up a device .....

The ways to connect these type of devices is... Because... This it what it can do. .... This is what it can't do... This is what you need. .. . Here is an example of setting up a device .....

It's simply not possible, in my opinion, to write a single guide that answers the needs of all people.

For example, there are significant chunks of our customer base who are only audio or only video.  Writing a guide would have to respect that.

And there are too many cases to address in a single topic or thread.  Does the user have wireless or wired connections?  Is the connection via LAN or Internet?  Is the data local or on a NAS?  What is the Renderer (including its faults)?  Are there children involved?  What devices are used?  What OS?

Each of those requires a branch, and the branches require branches.

The best way for a user to learn, in my opinion, is to start with the basics (Getting Started in my signature), get comfortable with how things work, then tackle the next level of complexity.

Search (here or at Google) is a great tool for learning.  In my opinion, search has replace the traditional manual.  When I have a new piece of hardware, I try it without using a manual, then I search online, and only occasionally do I read a manual.

I think JRiver's responsibility is to provide details on how each piece works, either on the wiki, or on the forum.  The comprehensive how-to guide is just too big a task.  You could write a book and sell it, but it would be quickly out of date.

[dtc]

Networking videos can even be done in the kitchen.  From June 2009:

https://pix01.jriver.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/Netbook_as_Remote/

[mattkhan]

That has more info and helps but it still seems to be disjointed. Maybe with the addition of some overviews/recipes the underlying docs could be brought together into a more process based approach?

I'm not sure what you mean by disjointed exactly though it is an attempt to collect existing content into a single starting page so perhaps that is inevitable

I do agree that the wiki would benefit from some content like this however it's such a big job that I can't see it happening in a community driven wiki (partly because it is unlikely to age too well, partly because of the variety of setups that exist).

[rn701]

Seems like some example diagrams would help clarify things for new users.

[JimH]

Seems like some example diagrams would help clarify things for new users.

That would work if the number of possible cases was smaller.

[mattkhan]

That would work if the number of possible cases was smaller.

this might be obvious but I'm not sure from this comment whether you're thinking this is a documentation problem only

the really useful feature here (IMV) is a live network diagram showing connected clients, this information must be known to MC otherwise it couldn't serve them but I imagine the server does not have all the info at present

i.e. it would be like

Code: [Select]

server -- mylaptop1 (MC)
       \
        \- myworkstation (MC) -- jremote (some named phone)
                           \
                            \- panel (some IP address)
                           \
                            \- gizmo
       \
        \- MyTV (DLNA)


[rn701]

That would work if the number of possible cases was smaller.

Not saying you'd need to document every possible permutation of devices, operating systems, routers, switches, wiring etc.

Just some basic diagrams to illustrate the fundamentals of common  setups as a starting point.

[dtc]

I fully understand the complexities of  documenting a program as complicated at Media Center. The current WIKI is relatively complete, but it is organized more as documentation of features than as a how to use it manual. I understand why. I think documentation could be more user friendly for the beginner with more visual presentation. That would include both more visuals in the WIKI and more You Tube type instruction videos. Those would not have to include everything MC does, but would focus on common tasks that most new users would encounter. Spike did some and it would be good to add to those. That might be a fun project for an intern.

As an example of user documentation, I threw together a crude visual that could be used as part of an introduction for new users. The current Getting Started documentation is pretty complete, but it is pretty dense for people who are not familiar with the jargen and the links take you down deeper and deeper before you realize it. In my diagram each entry would be a link to a description of its use and/or a You Tube video. Again, this would be used as an introduction not for every function in MC.  Just need an intern to implement it.