Topic: Playing DSF on Sony STR-DN1080 receiver (Read 16013 times)

depechefan · « **Reply #50 on:** September 27, 2019, 05:46:10 am »

Hi Andrew,

That makes perfect sense. I'll see if I can find a suitable place to give Sony this information...

Thanks again!

/M

RoderickGI · « **Reply #51 on:** September 27, 2019, 09:01:51 pm »

Great that you got it working. I'm wondering if there is a more universal solution.

Specifically, I don't know how the original mime type specification format in the FileAssociations.xml works.

i.e.
<Item Name="dff">audio/x-dff;audio/dff</Item>
<Item Name="dsf">audio/x-dsf;audio/dsf</Item>
<Item Name="dsd">audio/x-dsd;audio/dsd</Item>

Does that mean that MC will, using dsf files as an example, try to send files marked as "audio/x-dsf" mime type first, and if that doesn't work, send as "audio/dsf" mime type? Or does it respond with all mime types listed, so that the Renderer can pick the mime type it wants, or something?

I'm wondering if changing the FileAssociations.xml file to read;

<Item Name="dff">audio/x-dff;audio/dff;audio/dsd</Item>
<Item Name="dsf">audio/x-dsf;audio/dsf;audio/dsd</Item>
<Item Name="dsd">audio/x-dsd;audio/dsd</Item>

Or maybe;

<Item Name="dff">audio/dsd;audio/x-dff;audio/dff</Item>
<Item Name="dsf">audio/dsd;audio/x-dsf;audio/dsf</Item>
<Item Name="dsd">audio/x-dsd;audio/dsd</Item>

Would work, and retain compatibility with other Renderers, meaning that the default FileAssociations.xml could be updated and supplied with a MC update by JRiver.

==========================================

Regardless, you may want to complete one more step Depechefan.

You have currently edited the FileAssociations.xml file in the "C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 25\Data\Default Resources\" directory. In order to prevent that file from being overwritten during an update, I suggest that you make the following changes.

Create a directory "C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 25\Data\Custom Resources\" if you don't have one already.
Move your modified FileAssociations.xml file to that directory.
Rename your saved FileAssociations.xml file in "C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 25\Data\Default Resources\" back to its original name. i.e. "FileAssociations.xml".

MC will then look in the "Custom Resources" directory before the "Default Resources" directory, find your modified "FileAssociations.xml" file and use that instead of the default version. Nothing in the "custom Resources" directory is overwritten by a MC update, or major version Upgrade. In the case of a major version Upgrade, for example MC25 to MC26, I think you will need to copy your "Custom Resources" directory to the new version, but I'm not sure. MC may copy it across if it finds the previous version of MC.

If the default version of the "FileAssociations.xml" file can be updated so that it works with your STR-DN1080 and all other Renderers, then you wouldn't need to worry about the "Custom Resources" directory issue. Hence my wondering about the functionality of those specific lines in the "FileAssociations.xml" file above.
What say you JRiver?

depechefan · « **Reply #52 on:** September 28, 2019, 01:34:03 am »

Hi Roderick,

That is an interesting idea. I'm not home today but will try your suggestions tomorrow and also place the modified file in the custom directory.

Will keep you updated.

/M

AndrewFG · « **Reply #53 on:** September 28, 2019, 02:40:06 am »

Quote from: RoderickGI on September 27, 2019, 09:01:51 pm

Great that you got it working. I'm wondering if there is a more universal solution.

Possibly yes.

The UPNP specification is as follows..

1) In the Content Directory Browse process, when a Digital Media Server publishes information about a track in its library, it must advise meta data for ALL the different mime types that it is capable of delivering (e.g. audio/wav, audio/mp3, audio/flac, or whatever) together with a corresponding url for getting each mime type of that track.

2) Then the Digital Media Render will fetch its desired mime type of that track by doing a GET for the respective url in the meta data provided by the DMS, and also specifying an Accept: audio/xyz header in the GET request.

The above describes a Pull process. But when doing a Push, things are a bit different, since step 1) is omitted, and instead the DMS sends a SetAVTransportURI command telling the DMR what it should play. However I think the SetAVT command essentially contains the same meta data as a Browse response, so step 2) can be followed also in this case.

In order to streamline the above process, the UPNP specification also has a mechanism GetProtocolInfo whereby a DMS can publish a list of all mime-types that it can deliver (source protocol info) and a DMR can publish all those that it can play (sink protocol info). If the DMS has done a proper matching of sink and source protocol info, then in Browse or SetAVT it can restrict the list of offered mime types to those that a) it can deliver, and b) that it knows the DMR can play.

So I think there are several improvements that MC can make.

a) Implement GetProtocolInfo properly, and use its findings in Browse and SetAVT

b) Offer all mime type flavours audio/dsd, audio/dsf, audio/dff and their x-variants in Browse and SetAVT

c) If there is an explicit Accept mime type in the GET, then use the same mime type in the responding Content-Type

depechefan · « **Reply #54 on:** September 29, 2019, 07:40:42 am »

Hi again,

Now back and able to test. I moved the fileassociations.xml file to the custom directory. JRiver picks it up - just installed an update so can confirm it's not overwritten :-)

Quote from: RoderickGI on September 27, 2019, 09:01:51 pm

Great that you got it working. I'm wondering if there is a more universal solution.

Specifically, I don't know how the original mime type specification format in the FileAssociations.xml works.

i.e.
<Item Name="dff">audio/x-dff;audio/dff</Item>
<Item Name="dsf">audio/x-dsf;audio/dsf</Item>
<Item Name="dsd">audio/x-dsd;audio/dsd</Item>

Does that mean that MC will, using dsf files as an example, try to send files marked as "audio/x-dsf" mime type first, and if that doesn't work, send as "audio/dsf" mime type? Or does it respond with all mime types listed, so that the Renderer can pick the mime type it wants, or something?

I'm wondering if changing the FileAssociations.xml file to read;

<Item Name="dff">audio/x-dff;audio/dff;audio/dsd</Item>
<Item Name="dsf">audio/x-dsf;audio/dsf;audio/dsd</Item>
<Item Name="dsd">audio/x-dsd;audio/dsd</Item>

Or maybe;

<Item Name="dff">audio/dsd;audio/x-dff;audio/dff</Item>
<Item Name="dsf">audio/dsd;audio/x-dsf;audio/dsf</Item>
<Item Name="dsd">audio/x-dsd;audio/dsd</Item>

Would work, and retain compatibility with other Renderers, meaning that the default FileAssociations.xml could be updated and supplied with a MC update by JRiver.

I tried this. First option didn't work. I was back to the error message saying that there are no playable files in the location chosen. Second option works as expected though. So for my scenario that is probably a good choice.

Posted a link to this thread in a Sony UK forum. Haven't received a reply though. I can see that they are discussing wake on lan issues in that forum so that is probably my next challenge... ;-)

/M

RoderickGI · « **Reply #55 on:** September 29, 2019, 05:14:46 pm »

Thanks for letting us know which one worked.

WOL, for a Receiver...

fun

depechefan · « **Reply #56 on:** October 03, 2019, 12:27:34 pm »

Hi again,

So I got a reply from Sony after I created a support case. You can see it below. So the long and short of it is that they don't care... I'll probably pick a different brand next time I'm in the market for a receiver :-)

Quote

Thank you for contacting Sony support.

We are sorry to learn that you are facing difficulties with your Sony STR-DN1080 device using DSF files with the DLNA feature.

Unfortunately we would like to highlight that we do not guarantee the functionality of DSF files using DLNA, for more information, please check the help guide below including the restrictions:

https://helpguide.sony.net/ha/strdn108/v1/en/contents/TP0001221399.html

You may also find this information using the manual link below on page 64 restriction number “2”:

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/res/manuals/4686/1a5e9c2b4143ad36dd5cb360f2a11851/46865241M.pdf

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email.

Thank you for your enquiry.

Yours sincerely,

Seif

SONY SUPPORT TEAM
SUPPORT: http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en

/M

AndrewFG · « **Reply #57 on:** October 03, 2019, 04:23:28 pm »

Hmm. Don’t be in a hurry to change suppliers. At least you got it working with the Sony..

dtc · « **Reply #58 on:** October 03, 2019, 05:09:42 pm »

It is complicated for a company to make a change to the firmware of a AV receiver. The software fix is easy enough to do, but rolling out an actual firmware update is a significant task and it is only done for significant improvements. A mistake can brick receivers. There was last one for your receiver a year ago. There may be another one, but firmware updates for $450 receivers are not very common. Their answer basically said that they are not going to roll our a firmware update just for this issue, especially since they clearly said the DSD may or may not work. That is disappointing given Sony's history in SACD/DSD, but that was a long time ago.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #59 on:** October 03, 2019, 05:51:18 pm »

Oh well, as per their manual and help, they did say it may not work.

Changing brands can also be a bit of a crapshoot. Denon and Marantz have DLNA issues, according to reports here. People have had problems with other brands. It just shows you have to do your research before buying.

JimH · « **Reply #60 on:** October 03, 2019, 07:03:27 pm »

Sometimes pulling from the server will work when pushing to the renderer won't. Try controlling it from the Sony receiver side.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #61 on:** October 03, 2019, 07:59:04 pm »

It has been fixed by editing the "FileAssociations.xml" file Jim. All good now.

depechefan · « **Reply #62 on:** October 04, 2019, 12:30:54 am »

Morning,

I guess I didn't make myself clear. I find it disappointing that Sony apparently don't take an interest in solving this. This makes me less likely to choose one of their products in the future. At this point everything is fine. I have it working to send dsf files directly to the receiver for it to decode them.

I'll not purchase a new receiver until they start supporting 8k passthrough. And I'm going to buy a more expensive device with more focus on audio next time anyway.

/M

AndrewFG · « **Reply #63 on:** October 04, 2019, 02:55:49 am »

Quote from: depechefan on October 04, 2019, 12:30:54 am

I'm going to buy a more expensive device with more focus on audio next time anyway.

Enjoy your shopping spree!

dtc · « **Reply #64 on:** October 04, 2019, 06:08:59 am »

Quote from: depechefan on October 04, 2019, 12:30:54 am

And I'm going to buy a more expensive device with more focus on audio next time anyway.

/M

The ES line is a significant step up. However, the firmware for things like DLNA and DSD are often common across the entire line. ES adds lots of features, but it does not necessarily modify features like that. I am a fan of Yamaha, but I have no experience with their DLNA. I use a USB DAC for DSD playback. Something to consider.

depechefan · « **Reply #65 on:** October 04, 2019, 06:37:55 am »

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestions. I haven't quite understood how the USB DAC thing works so I need to look into that, I think. When I bought the Sony one of my main reasons to pick that one is that it supports DSD over HDMI. I thought I could use Apple TV or Nvidia Shield to send the files. Now I know that basically no streaming devices (or PCs) support DSD over HDMI so I have no source I can use. My research indicates that I'd need to buy an Oppo player or a Dune HD extreme or similar. So that will be pretty expensive. The other option I thought I had was to connect to my NAS using CIFS, NFS or something but the Sony doesn't support that. So this is why I've ended up with DLNA as my best option (unless I copy my music to a USB drive - how do you make a playlist then?)

So I know much more now to do some better research before my next purchase. You live and learn...

/M

dtc · « **Reply #66 on:** October 04, 2019, 07:29:17 am »

For a usb DAC, you connect the DAC via usb to the PC and then connect analog (RCA) cables from the DAC to the analog inputs on your receiver. The IFI Nano is an inexpensive DAC with usb input and RCA outputs. It does both PCM and DSD. There are also off brand DACs for not much money. Of course, the price goes up quickly. Receivers benefit from a mass market, where DACs, especially DSD DACs, are a much more specialized market.

depechefan · « **Reply #67 on:** October 04, 2019, 07:52:44 am »

Ah, I see. Makes sense. It would mean also investing in a suitable PC then. NUC or something. The media center PC I currently use is in a closet far from the receiver.

dtc · « **Reply #68 on:** October 04, 2019, 08:02:59 am »

That's when DLNA makes sense. If you use a second PC, you can use MC in client/server mode, but the whole setup becomes more complicated.

At least you have your DSD working now.

Enjoy the music.

depechefan · « **Reply #69 on:** October 04, 2019, 09:03:58 am »

Exactly - and I do very much

mimizone · « **Reply #70 on:** November 02, 2020, 07:23:54 pm »

Happy to find this work around!

But on a Mac,
where would I find the original FileAssociations.xml file and where should I put a custom one? ?

mimizone · « **Reply #71 on:** November 02, 2020, 07:52:17 pm »

I can answer one of my questions at least.

The original FileAssociations.xml file is in the Application Contents of Media Center,
in the subfolder Contents/Resources/Data/Default Resources

I tried to put my own FileAssociations.xml file in ~/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 25/Data/Custom Resources/
But it's ignored.

But I can report that the dff/dsf file types fix works if I modify the default original xml file (until I update...)
It even sends the 6 channels files without problems now.
I am happy!

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Playing DSF on Sony STR-DN1080 receiver (Read 16013 times)